Serious 2020 Democratic Primaries Page 8

Started by VisionofMilotic April 10th, 2019 11:07 AM
  • 15699 views
  • 261 replies

gimmepie

Age 27
Male
Australia
Seen 1 Day Ago
Posted 1 Day Ago
Probably because what people consider a "socialist" has changed dramatically over the years. I call myself a socialist, and admittedly have much further left views than Bernie, but there is an argument for calling even me a "Social Democrat".

Also, it doesn't matter that Trump was too stupid to actually succeed in getting some quid pro quo going, because he still openly attempted to enlist the help of a foreign nation in hurting an electoral opponent's campaign - you know, again.
RPWLA&MVGGaming Journal

Hands

I was saying Boo-urns

Age 32
Male
Seen December 15th, 2022
Posted November 23rd, 2022
1,863 posts
6.8 Years
So a “no true Scotsman” response?

So he’s starting small. Dude insists he is a socialist. Repeatedly over many years.
No, I'm asking you to stick to basic, well established definitions instead of playing McCarthy on a Pokemon forum and ignoring decades of history from your contemporaries.

Britain achieved universal healthcare in the years following WW2. We did that whilst bankrupt, during a rebuilding phase. We dealt with the equivalent of 9/11 every night for 8 months. In financial ruin, we pulled it off.


What's your excuse?
Male
Ahem, New York City
Seen December 15th, 2022
Posted January 31st, 2021
402 posts
5.4 Years
Oh well if he uses the word it must be true right? It doesn't matter that none of his policies revolve around workers owning the means of production or running society, he says he's one so that's all what matters.
I doubt most Republicans can even define the term. They use it to scare people, framing it as "Communism lite" (it isn't) claiming poverty-stricken dictatorships like North Korea and Venezuela are socialist. (Not even close.)

They seem willingly ignorant. I've told them that Nelson Mandela and Golda Meir actually improved their country's conditions via Socialism, and Trump's sycophants claim "it only works in small countries". I remind them Albert Einstein was a Socialist, they respond by claiming he was regarded as an eccentric fool in his time (he was not), that he has Asperger's syndrome (an unfounded theory, but even if he did, so what?) or that he was a wife-beater (sadly true, but has nothing to do with political views). I remind them that Mark Twain was a Socialist, and they claim he was a nutcase who should have been locked up (not true at all; he was eccentric, sure, but nobody ever claimed he was mentally ill).

I remind them that Theodore Roosevelt was widely regarded as a socialist, given his reputation as a "trust-buster" who dismantled many large corporations, and I'm called names that cannot be printed here.

Trump voters won't learn and won't acknowledge the actual facts because they don't want to. Period.

Neil Peart

Learn to swim

Age 32
Male
Helsinki, Finland
Seen April 10th, 2021
Posted March 7th, 2021
753 posts
13.1 Years
That's because it just looks like a show trial at this point. The Russian thing fell through and the dems hope to drag this farce of an investigation out till the election so they can milk the "our candidate isn't facing impeachment."

She did well enough with it.

Gotta appease their base and look like their trying something.

Which is incredibly stupid as his name is in the NEWS!

Very unlikely.

Less teflon Don and more that after all the other accusations fell apart, its turned into the "Dem who cried wolf!"



I disagree.

Everyone thinks the other groups political system is terrible.



There is no way that Sanders would have won. He has zero grasp of economics plus he's a socialist (redundant?). Most people know exactly were that leads and aren't interested in joining the breadlines.


Ah yes, stereotypes, insults and conspiracy theories.


I agree that the Dems won't be happy but I disagree that the world is trending towards intolerance.
What in the hell was the point of this response, exactly? You refuted nothing and offered nothing but snark and platitudes. Also, you have exposed your ignorance by calling Sanders a socialist, when he has made the distinction between "socialist" and "democratic socialist" repeatedly. And the slippery slope... lol. Low-effort; try again.

EDIT: ah, you're a Mormon. You needn't explain anything.
If you’ve got a problem, take it out on a drum.
Male
Japan
Seen August 25th, 2021
Posted August 21st, 2020
500 posts
4.5 Years
Probably because what people consider a "socialist" has changed dramatically over the years. I call myself a socialist, and admittedly have much further left views than Bernie, but there is an argument for calling even me a "Social Democrat".

Also, it doesn't matter that Trump was too stupid to actually succeed in getting some quid pro quo going, because he still openly attempted to enlist the help of a foreign nation in hurting an electoral opponent's campaign - you know, again.
Well it actually does matter a quid pro quo can be an actual crime which is why the impeachment proceedings are built around it, if the quid pro quo did not actually exist then there is no reason to convict.

They use it to scare people, framing it as "Communism lite" (it isn't) claiming poverty-stricken dictatorships like North Korea and Venezuela are socialist. (Not even close.)
That will be quite a shock to the Venezuelan people considering it was Hugo Chavez and Maduro that advanced his form of socialism as “Socialism of the 21st Century”

https://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/30/world/americas/chavez-restyles-venezuela-with-21stcentury-socialism.html

They seem willingly ignorant. I've told them that Nelson Mandela
No doubt socialism can work out for a country in the short run, hell things improved in Venezuela temporarily, but if you are going to mention South Africa then it’s important to also note how things are with the socialist government now, specifically the issue of forced land redistribution.

Her

Age 29
Seen 3 Hours Ago
Posted 1 Week Ago
Play nice, girls. Be constructive. That being said, I know how it feels! Nowadays, I find it better to just not respond to someone whose views I am utterly unwilling to entertain, rather than making posts that can be considered personal attacks. Either way, keep calm.

Nah

Age 30
she/her, they/them
Seen 10 Hours Ago
Posted 18 Hours Ago
15,643 posts
9.5 Years
Well it actually does matter a quid pro quo can be an actual crime which is why the impeachment proceedings are built around it, if the quid pro quo did not actually exist then there is no reason to convict
I believe I’ve mentioned this before, but attempting to commit a crime is still a crime. Ukraine being unaware of something or not agreeing to the deal isn’t a necessity.
Nah ンン
“No, I... I have to be strong. Everyone expects me to."
Male
Japan
Seen August 25th, 2021
Posted August 21st, 2020
500 posts
4.5 Years
I believe I’ve mentioned this before, but attempting to commit a crime is still a crime. Ukraine being unaware of something or not agreeing to the deal isn’t a necessity.
That works sometimes, however I am not sure it works with quid pro quo which expressly requires for the second party to be aware of the ramifications of doing what is asked. If Trump asked for Ukraine to do him a favor and the President of Ukraine does it out of the goodness of his heart with out any knowledge of what he is getting in return then it’s really impossible to argue a quid pro quo situation.

gimmepie

Age 27
Male
Australia
Seen 1 Day Ago
Posted 1 Day Ago
That works sometimes, however I am not sure it works with quid pro quo which expressly requires for the second party to be aware of the ramifications of doing what is asked. If Trump asked for Ukraine to do him a favor and the President of Ukraine does it out of the goodness of his heart with out any knowledge of what he is getting in return then it’s really impossible to argue a quid pro quo situation.
That doesn't change the fact that Trump was still committing a crime by asking though. Even if Trump somehow, after everything that went on regarding Russia, wasn't aware he was committing a crime he can still suffer consequences for it. Ignorance is generally not considered a defence.
RPWLA&MVGGaming Journal
Male
Japan
Seen August 25th, 2021
Posted August 21st, 2020
500 posts
4.5 Years
That doesn't change the fact that Trump was still committing a crime by asking though. Even if Trump somehow, after everything that went on regarding Russia, wasn't aware he was committing a crime he can still suffer consequences for it. Ignorance is generally not considered a defence.
That's the problem though, is asking for an investigation into corruption, even if the corrupted person is the son of a political opponent really a crime? So far to the best of my knowledge, I don't believe those that have testified have even said such a thing is a crime.

Edit: Hell, Marie Yovanovitch admitted she has no evidence of criminal activity and she was one of the star witnesses.

Ivysaur

Grass dinosaur extraordinaire

Age 32
He/him
Madrid, Europe
Seen 2 Days Ago
Posted April 5th, 2023
21,076 posts
16.2 Years
That's the problem though, is asking for an investigation into corruption, even if the corrupted person is the son of a political opponent really a crime? So far to the best of my knowledge, I don't believe those that have testified have even said such a thing is a crime.

Edit: Hell, Marie Yovanovitch admitted she has no evidence of criminal activity and she was one of the star witnesses.
Let's phrase it differently: is it a crime to withhold billions of dollars already greenlit by Congress in military aid to a country, and then call the president of said country and tell him you will give them the money you already promised only if he "does you a favour though" and launches an investigation into the son of one of your main political rivals and parades the announcement on TV? That sounds like extortion for purely political reasons, and that sounds like very much a crime.

The key is Trump's past conversations with Zelenskyy and comments in the issue, making it clear that he didn't give a damn about corruption in Ukraine (didn't he have a former campaign manager who was jailed for corruption in Ukraine, anyway? Paul Manafort?) but he cared deeply about The Bidens. And he didn't necessarily want results but just a big TV ad he could run over and over, kinda like Clinton's Emails.
Male
Japan
Seen August 25th, 2021
Posted August 21st, 2020
500 posts
4.5 Years
Let's phrase it differently: is it a crime to withhold billions of dollars already greenlit by Congress in military aid to a country, and then call the president of said country and tell him you will give them the money you already promised only if he "does you a favour though" and launches an investigation into the son of one of your main political rivals and parades the announcement on TV? That sounds like extortion for purely political reasons, and that sounds like very much a crime.
That is, but no where in the conversation does Trump link the money to the favors, nor do the Ukrainians or ambassadors that have testified have said that the money was linked to the favors or that they had knowledge the money was being held up at the time of the call. Thus you cannot claim that the President told him that the money was promised only if he "does you a favour though".

The key is Trump's past conversations with Zelenskyy and comments in the issue, making it clear that he didn't give a damn about corruption in Ukraine (didn't he have a former campaign manager who was jailed for corruption in Ukraine, anyway? Paul Manafort?) but he cared deeply about The Bidens. And he didn't necessarily want results but just a big TV ad he could run over and over, kinda like Clinton's Emails.
Well to be perfectly clear he cared about the Bidens and he cared about the server that was hacked from 2016 as he asked them to look into that as well.

Nah

Age 30
she/her, they/them
Seen 10 Hours Ago
Posted 18 Hours Ago
15,643 posts
9.5 Years
can we please stop pretending to think that it's not terribly obvious what Trump's intentions are/were
Nah ンン
“No, I... I have to be strong. Everyone expects me to."
Male
Ahem, New York City
Seen December 15th, 2022
Posted January 31st, 2021
402 posts
5.4 Years
Read this article:

https://www.wweek.com/culture/2019/11/18/in-op-ed-portland-based-simpsons-writer-bill-oakley-says-one-of-his-jokes-has-become-an-actual-republican-talking-point/

It shows just how sad the Republican defense of Trump has become. Using an excuse made famous by a villain in a cartoon.

can we please stop pretending to think that it's not terribly obvious what Trump's intentions are/were
I have no doubt Trump's base believes he had good intentions, seeing as they believe in stuff like Pizzagate and FEMA camps.

My personal favorite was Q-Anon's claim that Trump planned to use Mr. Bush's funeral as a sting operation to arrest the "Deep State leaders" of the DNC.

Neil Peart

Learn to swim

Age 32
Male
Helsinki, Finland
Seen April 10th, 2021
Posted March 7th, 2021
753 posts
13.1 Years
can we please stop pretending to think that it's not terribly obvious what Trump's intentions are/were
Trump is a moron who got a ton of power. There are few things more inimical to a functioning, respectable society than that. Any plans he may have were probably developed as he was learning about his presidential powers in whatever crash course someone who actually knows what they're doing had to give him when he took office.
If you’ve got a problem, take it out on a drum.

VisionofMilotic

Female
Sootopolis City
Seen 10 Hours Ago
Posted 3 Days Ago
There have been a number of comments on the this page and the last about Trump's possible crimes and the ongoing inquiry against him. It's a good time for a quick reminder that Tyler has a thread specifically about the impeachment proceedings that looks like it's in need of a bump about now as the plot thickens.

https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=425007

There is room for a discussion about impeachment within this thread. After all, there are sitting members of congress and senate in the race right now who are in a position to vote on this very issue, so their statements on impeachment are important for one. One of the democratic candidates Tom Steyer came to public attention as an impeachment activist before his presidential bid, Trump's attempt to weaken the candidacy of Joe Biden, how impeachment inquiries may affect public opinion of democrats overall and Trump's chances for re-election are but a few of many potentially relevant points. At the same time I think we are walking a fine line between the topic of this thread and a DO or DON'T impeach Trump arguement by his supporters vs his opponents, and I want to make sure that we don't lose sight of the main topic-- the 2020 Democratic Primary. I'm encouraging folks to take a look at the impeachment thread, and weigh whether what you would like to share would fit better in this thread or that one, or deserves it's own brand new thread.The 2020 Democratic Primary isn't the only thread with a political theme we can have here in OT after all :)

While I am here I might as well mention that the 5th democratic debate happens to be tonight at 9:00 pm eastern standard time if anyone is interested. The candidates who made the cut for the debate stage are these 10, Joe Biden, Cory Booker,Pete Buttigieg, Tulsi Gabbard, Kamala Harris, Amy Klobuchar, Bernie Sanders, Tom Steyer, Elizabeth Warren and Andrew Yang. Regards!

Name: Narcissus
Adopt one yourself! @Pokémon Orphanage



I got Haxorus on "What Dragon-Type Pokemon are you?" https://quotev.com/quiz/5077163
Male
Japan
Seen August 25th, 2021
Posted August 21st, 2020
500 posts
4.5 Years
Getting back to the discussion on the Democratic field, there is a new poll out in New Hampshire showing Pete Buttigieg leading the Democrats, the sample size is small so that makes me question the poll but, it also compliments the Iowa poll showing him surging recently.

https://www.wmur.com/article/saint-anselm-poll-buttigieg-surges-to-10-percentage-point-lead-over-biden-warren-in-nh/29849189#

Her

Age 29
Seen 3 Hours Ago
Posted 1 Week Ago
well bloomberg is in the race now lmao

Nah

Age 30
she/her, they/them
Seen 10 Hours Ago
Posted 18 Hours Ago
15,643 posts
9.5 Years
idk why he (or anyone really) is bothering to join the race at this point, it seems obvious right now that the only people having a real chance at getting the nomination are Biden/Warren/Sanders

tho I'm sure that the DNC doesn't mind adding him in
Nah ンン
“No, I... I have to be strong. Everyone expects me to."
Male
Japan
Seen August 25th, 2021
Posted August 21st, 2020
500 posts
4.5 Years
idk why he (or anyone really) is bothering to join the race at this point, it seems obvious right now that the only people having a real chance at getting the nomination are Biden/Warren/Sanders

tho I'm sure that the DNC doesn't mind adding him in
My guess is they think Biden or Buttigieg are weak and that the moderate path is still open with Warren and Sanders’ eating up the liberal path to the nomination.

Nah

Age 30
she/her, they/them
Seen 10 Hours Ago
Posted 18 Hours Ago
15,643 posts
9.5 Years
That sounds like a good guess yeah. Moderates are gonna want to have a moderate backup in case Biden falters.
Nah ンン
“No, I... I have to be strong. Everyone expects me to."

Hands

I was saying Boo-urns

Age 32
Male
Seen December 15th, 2022
Posted November 23rd, 2022
1,863 posts
6.8 Years
My guess is they think Biden or Buttigieg are weak and that the moderate path is still open with Warren and Sanders’ eating up the liberal path to the nomination.
Warren is a moderate, Barclays bank backed her up.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/24/elizabeth-warren-not-progressive


Though yeah, the corporations realise the Bernie is only growing and that Biden has put in a dismal performance, so they've thrown another stooge in.
Male
Japan
Seen August 25th, 2021
Posted August 21st, 2020
500 posts
4.5 Years
New poll out today from Quinnipiac:

"Former Vice President Joe Biden has retaken the lead in the Democratic primary race for president as Senator Elizabeth Warren's numbers have plummeted, according to a Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pea-ack) University national poll released today. Biden receives 24 percent of the vote among Democratic voters and independent voters who lean Democratic, while South Bend Mayor Pete Buttigieg gets 16 percent, Warren receives 14 percent, and Sen. Bernie Sanders gets 13 percent.

Former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who just entered the race, receives 3 percent as do Sen. Kamala Harris and Sen. Amy Klobuchar. Sen. Cory Booker, businessman Andrew Yang, former Housing and Urban Development Secretary Julian Castro, and Sen. Michael Bennet each receive 2 percent. No other candidate tops one percent. Eleven percent are undecided."

https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=3650

Warren's drop to third place, this continues her slide as seen in the RCP polling average that started about a month ago where she was neck and neck with Biden, but is now tied for Sanders for second, or with Quinnipiac, tied for third.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/2020_democratic_presidential_nomination-6730.html

Meanwhile it looks like her drop largely coincides with the push for Medicare for All, and the sudden change in all but White College Age Democrats in opposing it. When Quinnipiac asked that question two years ago, the total split was 51/38 in favor. Earlier this year it had slipped to 43/45. Now it’s dropped to 36/52.

With out a core base like Bernie, Warren may be slipping out of the election.

professor plum

Age 31
he/him/his
louisiana
Seen 10 Hours Ago
Posted 14 Hours Ago
11,981 posts
17.9 Years
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/03/kamala-harris-drops-out-of-2020-presidential-race.html
Kamala has dropped out! Buttigieg, please be next.
(\__/)
(='.'=)
('')_('')
This Is Bunny. Copy And Paste Bunny Into
Your Signature To Help Him Gain World Domination!!!!

Male
Japan
Seen August 25th, 2021
Posted August 21st, 2020
500 posts
4.5 Years
Is this something? According to a new Harris poll if Clinton jumped in she would be leading the pack now, drawing most of her support from those supporting Biden, but also some from Warren and Sanders.

https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/HHP_November2019_Topline_RegisteredVoters.pdf