moves with confusing types Page 2

Started by apokemoncoordinator August 6th, 2020 11:13 AM
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Roni

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Kinda? Some abilities rely on the typing of status moves, but it's not a particularly big deal.
The biggest change I can see is the fact that Thunder Wave starts hitting Ground types, which is a bit annoying since it's already overused as is.
ok i didn't factor in status moves. blunder on my part. i was mostly just thinking about stat modifiers, esp those that would only affect the user. weather absolutely still needs typings too.

to not derail this thread too much, i'm also chucking in Mirror Move. not sure of GF's logic to make that Flying... it's literally mimicking the opponents' last move, why not make it Normal or Psychic?
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Well, except for a very few moves that somehow take typings into account (like Thunder Wave, Stealth Rock, Counter/Mirror Coat), the status moves' types are actually pointless and are there just to make things more colorful (like when they changed Moonlight from Normal to Fairy, the move is still literally the same).

Even in those cases the types wouldn't be really necessary as we already see in things like Poison Powder not affecting Grass types when Grass is weak to Poison. Pretty sure this kind of moves and what they affect and what not are each coded individually regardless of the type they get, the type is just illustrative.

i'm also chucking in Mirror Move. not sure of GF's logic to make that Flying... it's literally mimicking the opponents' last move, why not make it Normal or Psychic?
Apparently the move in Japanese is something like 'Parrot mimicry'
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I always thought swords dance should be steel, cuz y'know... SWORDS?

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^ Possibly because the move had been around since the beginning, back when the Metal type did not exist.

Also, Sweet scent being Normal. Just, why?
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Well, they did change Gust, Karate Chop and Bite's type in Generation II - they used to be all normal type moves - so you'd think they could change that to steel if they wanted to.

My theory is that because the sword there is metaphorical - it's not like there are actual swords involved, just sword-like appendages. Which include, say, Gallade's pointy arms or Haxorus' face axes or Samurott water-shell swords. They can be of any type so they're normal.

As for Sweet Scent, I can't think of a reason besides the evergreen "The devs didn't really care" :c

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Why is flash not electric?

Splash not water?

Megahorn should be normal. There are many different typed mons that have horns.

Roni

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Megahorn should be normal. There are many different typed mons that have horns.
there's already Horn Attack for that. would be weird if both moves were Normal. makes sense it's Bug type too because prior to Gen 3, it was the signature move of Heracross.
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Why is flash not electric?

Splash not water?

Megahorn should be normal. There are many different typed mons that have horns.
Because Splash is called Hop in Japanese, which isn't a water thing by any means. It's why Pokemon like Hoppip, a non water type, can learn it. So, Splash not being a Water type move isn't confusing in the slightest.

Squirtlenator

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Well, because you don't necessarily need electricity to produce light, which is why many other Pokémon (generally Grass, Psychic, and Fairy) can also do it.
Light is produced through a phenomenon known as electromagnetic radiation, which is composed of both a magnetic and an electrical component. Magnetic > electrical, Electrical component > says it in it's name! Source https://www.reference.com/science/light-produced-3e9b872b6c30ca4f

Because Splash is called Hop in Japanese, which isn't a water thing by any means. It's why Pokemon like Hoppip, a non water type, can learn it. So, Splash not being a Water type move isn't confusing in the slightest.
So why not translate it to hop in English then. That would make so much more sense and more straightforward. You think the average Pokemon player is going to know the Japanese root word?!

Omit it, when you hear the word splash, the first thing that comes to mind is water.

there's already Horn Attack for that. would be weird if both moves were Normal. makes sense it's Bug type too because prior to Gen 3, it was the signature move of Heracross.
Why would it be weird to have both moves as normal? Megahorn has a higher BP than Horn Attack. There are other moves that are the same and have the same typing, bind and wrap come to mind.

So according to your logic bugs are the only animals with horns?

Roni

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Why would it be weird to have both moves as normal? Megahorn has a higher BP than Horn Attack. There are other moves that are the same and have the same typing, bind and wrap come to mind.

So according to your logic bugs are the only animals with horns?
bro like i said, it used to be the signature move of Heracross. they initially never planned to have any other mon learn it, thus it wouldn't be ideal if it wasn't STAB. i guess as time passed they figured other horned Pokemon would benefit from a strong Bug type move they could naturally learn and combat weaknesses with, so they kept the typing and expanded. nowhere in my original argument did i imply that "bugs are the only animals with horns".

also, pro-tip for these forums: you can mass click respond to other people's posts and when you click the icon at the bottom right you can quote them all and reply to all in one post. it'll allow for less spammy-ness.
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bro like i said, it used to be the signature move of Heracross. they initially never planned to have any other mon learn it, thus it wouldn't be ideal if it wasn't STAB. i guess as time passed they figured other horned Pokemon would benefit from a strong Bug type move they could naturally learn and combat weaknesses with, so they kept the typing and expanded. nowhere in my original argument did i imply that "bugs are the only animals with horns".

also, pro-tip for these forums: you can mass click respond to other people's posts and when you click the icon at the bottom right you can quote them all and reply to all in one post. it'll allow for less spammy-ness.
I was mirrory addressing the threads question "moves with confusing types". I am well aware that it was Heracross's signature move but, currently many mons of different typings have access to it nowadays. If you read the description of the move https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Megahorn_(move) the key word is horn. Horns are not inclusive to only bugs. That is the point that I was trying to make.

Thanks for the pro-tip when responding to multiple posts.
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Light is produced through a phenomenon known as electromagnetic radiation, which is composed of both a magnetic and an electrical component. Magnetic > electrical, Electrical component > says it in it's name! Source https://www.reference.com/science/light-produced-3e9b872b6c30ca4f
Well, in that case basically every light based move has its type wrong. I mean: Light Screen, Reflect, and Luster Purge (Psychic), Solar Beam (Grass), Sunny Day (Fire), Flash Cannon and Doom Desire (Steel), Moonlight (Fairy), Power Gem (Rock), Tail Glow (Bug). A lot of types have light themed moves.
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Well, they did change Gust, Karate Chop and Bite's type in Generation II - they used to be all normal type moves - so you'd think they could change that to steel if they wanted to.

My theory is that because the sword there is metaphorical - it's not like there are actual swords involved, just sword-like appendages. Which include, say, Gallade's pointy arms or Haxorus' face axes or Samurott water-shell swords. They can be of any type so they're normal.

As for Sweet Scent, I can't think of a reason besides the evergreen "The devs didn't really care" :c
sand-attack was also normal in gen 1 and changed in gen 2.
Your Pichu went and evolved.

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Light is produced through a phenomenon known as electromagnetic radiation, which is composed of both a magnetic and an electrical component. Magnetic > electrical, Electrical component > says it in it's name! Source https://www.reference.com/science/light-produced-3e9b872b6c30ca4f
True, but by that logic Fire shouldn't be a type at all since heat is nothing but infrared radiation - which is also an EM wave. Nor should Ice, since it's just an absence of heat, which again, is an EM wave.

With Pokémon, higher level abstractions are more important than the bare tacks. So if the light is related to how plants do photosynthesis the move will be Grass. Moonlight is associated with fairies and other supernatural creatures, so Moonlight becomes Fairy type, and so on.

So why not translate it to hop in English then. That would make so much more sense and more straightforward. You think the average Pokemon player is going to know the Japanese root word?!

Omit it, when you hear the word splash, the first thing that comes to mind is water.
Because when Red and Blue were translated the only Pokémon that had that move was Magikarp, which was water type. So they translated as Splash because they were thinking "fish -> water".

Gen II was backward compatible (to a certain extent) with Gen I so if they just renamed the attack, some things would get confusing. Context matters. We know now that going with Hop would be a better choice, but back in 1997 the translation team didn't.

Why would it be weird to have both moves as normal? Megahorn has a higher BP than Horn Attack. There are other moves that are the same and have the same typing, bind and wrap come to mind.

So according to your logic bugs are the only animals with horns?
As mentioned before, it was made for Heracross. It's bug because it was supposed to be its best attack, that's the only reason.

Again, context matters. When the move was made, it was made for Heracross and was referring especifically to how rhinoceros beetles will use their big horns for battling (which is relatively popular in Japan and was, iirc the inspiration for the Pokémon series as whole).

There's also a balancing thing in that prior to Generation II bug was an offensive non-entity. Megahorn being bug was part of the first step in balancing the type (the following generations would, among other things, make more Pokémon learn that move and introduce other good moves like Signal Beam, Silver Wind, U-Turn, X-Scissor, Bug Buzz, etc.)
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Ok but how come every sand move is ground type but Sandstorm, both the move and the weather, are Rock?

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I feel like Coil is a Poison type move because thats like a snake thing? Ik there are many non Poison type snakes but the two standout ones being Arbok and Seviper (pretty weak argument but eh its worth mentioning).
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I find it odd that status moves have types at all. Obviously there are situations where those moves' types might come into play (e.g. Protean or Conversion), but it's kinda silly.

Triple Axel is a weird one. You can tell from its animation that it's meant to be an Ice-type move, and an extra coverage move for lots of Pokémon is great too, but I when I first read this move on Serebii.net, I went, "Wait. A kick move. And it's an Ice-type? Is that a typo?"

If you want another move that makes a confusing first impression pun not intended, because First Impression has been talked about in this thread already, there's Fiery Wrath. Obviously, though, being Galarian Moltres's signature move, it makes sense for it to be a Dark-type.

Oh yeah. Why is Rest a Psychic-type move?
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I find it odd that status moves have types at all. Obviously there are situations where those moves' types might come into play (e.g. Protean or Conversion), but it's kinda silly.

Triple Axel is a weird one. You can tell from its animation that it's meant to be an Ice-type move, and an extra coverage move for lots of Pokémon is great too, but I when I first read this move on Serebii.net, I went, "Wait. A kick move. And it's an Ice-type? Is that a typo?"

If you want another move that makes a confusing first impression pun not intended, because First Impression has been talked about in this thread already, there's Fiery Wrath. Obviously, though, being Galarian Moltres's signature move, it makes sense for it to be a Dark-type.

Oh yeah. Why is Rest a Psychic-type move?
I believe a Triple Axel is a figure skating thing, which might justify the reason it's Ice-type.

As for Rest...I dunno, because resting clears your mind from stress? :P