Incorrect Pokemon Types Page 3

Started by Dizzy September 6th, 2003 11:36 AM
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Frostweaver

Ancient + Prehistoric

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Posted July 30th, 2016
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Grass types without being part poison can learn sludge bomb... but that doesn't mean a grass/poison pokemon should lose its poison ability anyway cause you can do without it... well then if that's the truth then we don't need any types. Snorlax can learn ice attacks, fire attacks, ground attacks, fighting attacks, psychic, and so on... Pidgey can learn dark attacks, flying, normal, steel and etc...

Spike Razzor

"Don't argue, you failed..."

Age 34
Pokmon GB Strategies & Movesets
Seen May 22nd, 2022
Posted July 25th, 2005
857 posts
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Grass types without being part poison can learn sludge bomb... but that doesn't mean a grass/poison pokemon should lose its poison ability anyway cause you can do without it... well then if that's the truth then we don't need any types. Snorlax can learn ice attacks, fire attacks, ground attacks, fighting attacks, psychic, and so on... Pidgey can learn dark attacks, flying, normal, steel and etc...
Well you still didn't give me a goood reason why, like from what I have seen Posion/Bug moves are the weakest kind of elements because they do close to nothing. And don't bring Snorlax up, its status makes it like God to anything trying to attack it. It can take any kind of attack and then go to sleep with its Snore combo. And yes Pidgey can learn Steel wing because it has wings (abviously), and persuit makes sence.

I may not post, but I'm watching, waiting... Hehehe.
Dark bowels of Maryland
Seen January 12th, 2006
Posted January 12th, 2006
1,383 posts
19.7 Years
You don't have to be all sarcastic with the Kingdra thing, Frost. I still find its movepool good imho. Despite the good Attack, Kingdra is meant to be a special attacker, and I think Dragon Breath is still an annoying move. With STAB it's... I think 90 in power I think, and if it paralyzes you then you're screwed unless you're lucky. So it can't beat a special absorber like Blissey? Then... you switch to a physical user, unless the Kingdra does have the return/dragon dance combo. Unless a hazer comes out.

That's what's great about RS, there's a counter for *almost* everything. I still think a dragon dancing part Ground Tyranitar is beatable. Someone brings in an anti-type type on the switch in, forcing the Tyranitar to either switch out or risk being killed. If the Pokemon was a Suicune or Meganium, then they could survive a pumped up physical attack. Tyranitar's only current 4X weakness is fighting, and fighting pokemon and moves are not as commonly seen anyway.

Has it been mentioned that Volbeat/Illumise should be part Electric? I think it has. They can learn Electric moves with TM's, right?

Frostweaver

Ancient + Prehistoric

Age 34
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Seen September 11th, 2016
Posted July 30th, 2016
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19.7 Years
90 attack power dragonbreath still isn't that great... when you got the surf alternative at 142.5... but either way let's drop the kingdra issue aside for the moment.

Bug is certainly one of the strongest element. Being strong to dark, ghost, psychic and grass, bug type attacks are very powerful... if only there's more moves for the bug element. Right now there's only megahorn (but only horded by Rhyhorn and Heracross) and HP Bug... with a rare Silver Wind once in awhile. Bug moves are still rare... if you got "Silver Wind" as a tm in place of shockwave... you can imagine a world with everyteam having a Silver Wind-er. Bug attacks are major weaknesses to the great Shedinja, the every so annoying Dusclops, evil psychic legendaries, everyone's favorite dark type tank Umbreon, and finally the ghost type sp.att user Gengar... all these very common Pokemon are all weak to bug. How can you say bug is useless? If there's more bug attacks, then you'll see bug moves more often. Right now there's only 2 choices pretty much... Hidden Power or Silver Wind...

Poison does need a buff along with grass types, i'll agree on that part... The only poison moves nowadays is toxic. Sludge Bomb is a great move, but like Steel Wing, powerful but weak in terms of element... so therefore they're not a common sight in the metagame...

Snorlax is beatable as long as it doesn't have curse/rest... i don't really care what moves it got... it's all about cursing and resting for Snorlax. It's evil because there's only one pseduohazer that can safely remove Snorlax- Skarmory. Otherwise... well snore all you want... *brick break hits Snorlax*

Due to the great invention of Brick Break, which many Pokemon can learn as long as they have arms pretty much, fighting attacks are a lot more common. Fighting types got a big buff in my opinion in GSC, but got no good tms to make fighting moves common. Finally the amazing tm is invented, and brick break should be more commonly used to counter T-tar obviously, and also Regi-Ice which is also a common sight. Now the almight Snorlax can learn brick break as well, even Skarmory the last of the pseduohazers who can live against Snorlax is safe no more...

types that need to be buffed- grass, poison
types that need to be nerfed- dark (so far only dark)

Volbeat and Illumise should be part electric... then we wont' have so much "fillers"... giving it an unique type will at least give it some "use"... maybe...

Kairi

The Original $staff_title

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Seen February 3rd, 2021
Posted February 1st, 2016
10,285 posts
19.7 Years
Snore? Nobody gives Snorlax Snore...

It has Block now, so it could easily set up if you don't switch to Skarmory first thing. Most Snorlaxes pack Fire Blast, Curse, Rest, and Double Edge (for taking out a few specific tanks Body Slam won't cover).

Hidden Power is used all the time, especially on Zapdos and Jolteon. Usually Hidden Power Water70, it can really make Zapdos or Jolteon insane. Jolteon makes a Substitute, they switch to ground type. Jolteon blasts it with Hidden Power, and even if it doesnt finish off the Ground type, it has to tear through the sub first.


Fighting did rise up in GSC, and even more now. I suspect Bug will reach this "Ice" like level of power in the next game.

Blissey, with Skarmory and Suicune will beat out almost any strategy; it's usually accompanied by Curselax or Bonewak. No matter how many stupid Bonewaks I have taken out, it's still always hard to do. They too pack Fire Blast for Skarmory, and Swords Dance.

Well, a STAB'd Earthquake from a DD Tyranitar isn't weak, and if it has Chestorest then it'll be around well after it takes out the anti-type. Almost everything that learns Dragon Dance is overused these days. Plus, if you switch Tyranitar in, it takes out Shedinja without even doing a move.

Frostweaver

Ancient + Prehistoric

Age 34
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Canada
Seen September 11th, 2016
Posted July 30th, 2016
8,246 posts
19.7 Years
ice is always overused... ice beam is just a must have on every team now to take out the dragons. It's just that STAB ice beam is rare in the older times with only Articuno to do the job with the occassional Lapras ice beam (which isn't that powerful even with STAB as it's only at an average stat for stats). And now it has risen up and joined the battle with Regi Ice who can tank and dish out great sp.att damage too with ice beam and thunderbolt.

Snorlax is even more evil than before... i can only think of Dusclops who can do a "draw" against Snorlax. Dusclops can set up for the evil double team+pressure combo as most Snorlax can't hit Dusclops (Snorlax's fire blast can't exactly kill anything but as a purpose to act as a Skarmory flak). Then it's just there to see if the Snorlax player will give in and switch out snorlax, or just sit around to waste PP for both Pokemon...

i'm personally not a great fan of Hidden Power... it's great but technically it shouldn't really be used as it's near impossible to get a pokemon with the right hidden power with the right personality in the actual gameboy advance game. But that doesn't mean it's a bad move, as it introduces a lot of surprises for the opponent.

At least be glad that there's brick break to surprise Blissey (still not likely to rid the evil egg once and for all but better than nothing), Dusclops to stall with Curselax, and Bonewak is no more... Suicune now has its own counterpart to face off now (Regi Ice) which will lead into an interesting match... Suicune having mirror coat or not will decide its fate against Regi Ice (reflecting the thunderbolt back will hurt a lot...)

Dragon dancers are so commonly used, and it's not surprising. It's pretty much the opposite of curse. Curse allows a Pokemon to become a fortress, while Dragon Dance gives a Pokemon the ability of assassination, or just KO. Pokemon like Charizard in the past bend both ways to use sp.att and att together. Now it has become a physical attacker most of the time (either using dragon dance or sword dance as the buff).

if any certain moves need balancing, it has to be rest... reduce the PP down to 5 will make all Curselax's opponents happier. Also the games won't take half as long anymore then... (but however... 5 pp rest will make Dusclops even more common than now... hmm...)

PS: Whoever said Pokemon isn't complicated... read and look at all these junk

Kairi

The Original $staff_title

Female
Seen February 3rd, 2021
Posted February 1st, 2016
10,285 posts
19.7 Years
Suicune has Calm Mind now however, although Regice has Amnesia. So yeah, that's kind of a draw there.


Hidden Power isn't good on the GBA, but you have to realize arguing it's obtainablilty, you could also bring up the impossibility of perfect IV Pokmon, and shiny etc. Online battling is the theoretical maximum level of play and assumes the greatest values on the variables that, while impractical on the Gameboy, are certainly possible.

Spike Razzor

"Don't argue, you failed..."

Age 34
Pokmon GB Strategies & Movesets
Seen May 22nd, 2022
Posted July 25th, 2005
857 posts
19.7 Years
Bug is certainly one of the strongest element. Being strong to dark, ghost, psychic and grass, bug type attacks are very powerful... if only there's more moves for the bug element. Right now there's only megahorn (but only horded by Rhyhorn and Heracross) and HP Bug... with a rare Silver Wind once in awhile. Bug moves are still rare... if you got "Silver Wind" as a tm in place of shockwave... you can imagine a world with everyteam having a Silver Wind-er. Bug attacks are major weaknesses to the great Shedinja, the every so annoying Dusclops, evil psychic legendaries, everyone's favorite dark type tank Umbreon, and finally the ghost type sp.att user Gengar... all these very common Pokemon are all weak to bug. How can you say bug is useless? If there's more bug attacks, then you'll see bug moves more often. Right now there's only 2 choices pretty much... Hidden Power or Silver Wind...
Yes but have you see how low there overall status is? and most bugs are part posion which makes there weak to Psychic. Just some like Butterfree, that other one in RS and Heracross can prob stand up to 2-3 hits before they get knocked out. And Ghost attacks I don't know if they do weakness damage to any Pokemon, I think. Counting on, Megahorn is pretty useless seeing how it won't live long enough to do much. Ghost, Grass, Psychic 3 types I rarely use for battling with elements. No fear from weak bug attacks. Posion really needs to comeback here, the only one that does damage when it hits is prob Posion sting & Acid. And we already know thats a waste of a turn. And Grass its only weak to Fire, and Ice, good against Water. Seems fine to me, Maybe teach something Sunny Day then Solar beam seems to be the only way of striking for this type then again, there is Leaf Blade but I dunno how much it does but it did seem good when it nearly kill me off in RS.

I may not post, but I'm watching, waiting... Hehehe.

Frostweaver

Ancient + Prehistoric

Age 34
Male
Canada
Seen September 11th, 2016
Posted July 30th, 2016
8,246 posts
19.7 Years
Yes but have you see how low there overall status is? and most bugs are part posion which makes there weak to Psychic. Just some like Butterfree, that other one in RS and Heracross can prob stand up to 2-3 hits before they get knocked out. And Ghost attacks I don't know if they do weakness damage to any Pokemon, I think. Counting on, Megahorn is pretty useless seeing how it won't live long enough to do much. Ghost, Grass, Psychic 3 types I rarely use for battling with elements. No fear from weak bug attacks. Posion really needs to comeback here, the only one that does damage when it hits is prob Posion sting & Acid. And we already know thats a waste of a turn. And Grass its only weak to Fire, and Ice, good against Water. Seems fine to me, Maybe teach something Sunny Day then Solar beam seems to be the only way of striking for this type then again, there is Leaf Blade but I dunno how much it does but it did seem good when it nearly kill me off in RS.
once again, bug attacks don't have to come from STAB. Recall the memories of Bonewak please... Bug Pokemon (majority of them) are fillers and are not usable. But there's Heracross, Scizor, Shedinja, Ninjask and a few others that's completely compatible with the metagame.

Heracross can stand 2-3 rounds like you say. And you think there's not long enough staying power to pull off the almight megahorn? Well my friend... power of the jolly Heracross comes when it's at 1 hp with salac berry... reversal megahorn sweep... it's pretty fast with jolly and salac berry together. If you are still unsecure, pass an agility then. Plus psychic types don't have any physical def to last a STAB megahorn from heracross...

The ohter bug, Shedinja is definitely worth mentioning. Its influence on the game is so great that it scared the uber Kyogre into abandoning ice beam for ancientpower just for the pure purpose of ridding this guy. Shedinja is a powerful Pokemon in many situations (though it's also easily killed in many other situations). Its other evolution Ninjask is by no doubt the best baton passer in the history of Pokemon. With speed boost for free agility, and sword dance for the frightening power, it is a support Pokemon to be feared off. If it got sucessful passes on to Gyarados... then feel the wrath...

the signature move for the poison element must be no doubt toxic... chop my head off if toxic is not useful.

Grass weakness- flying, ice, fire, bug, poison
Grass resistance- water, grass, electric, ground

exactly how many flamethrowers, ice beam and aerial ace do we see? a whole darn lot... Dragonite, Salamence, Altaria, Shedinja, Alakazam (and its 3 punches), kingdra, Fire Blasting Snorlax and many many others all have one of these 3 moves. Grass type is in deep trouble.

Is using sunny day helping yourself, or are you committing suicide? Do we need an Altaria or Flygon doing KO on a Sceptile? Leaf Blade is good but not enough still. It's only power 75 attack power... only equal to the punches, not the bolts/throwers/beam yet. More improvement is still needed but it's still a great improvement. But grass attacks got no TM of its own like brick break or aerial ace... so grass attacks come from STABbed ones only. Grass type Pokemon can learn close to no other attack but sludge bomb and grass attacks. Sceptile is one of the very few exceptions to learning other attacks (crunch and dclaw). Grass types are actually in big trouble. It is doomed.

Spike Razzor

"Don't argue, you failed..."

Age 34
Pokmon GB Strategies & Movesets
Seen May 22nd, 2022
Posted July 25th, 2005
857 posts
19.7 Years
Well Ninjask learns other moves mostly. Bugs need an almighty ruler! Like a big hard shelled bug. With good Defence, good Attack and speed boost! That would be a good combo. =3, they also need way WAY more attack power before that can even become more than pests. Im thinking 10 pp Physical move here.

I may not post, but I'm watching, waiting... Hehehe.

Frostweaver

Ancient + Prehistoric

Age 34
Male
Canada
Seen September 11th, 2016
Posted July 30th, 2016
8,246 posts
19.7 Years
Well Ninjask learns other moves mostly. Bugs need an almighty ruler! Like a big hard shelled bug. With good Defence, good Attack and speed boost! That would be a good combo. =3, they also need way WAY more attack power before that can even become more than pests. Im thinking 10 pp Physical move here.
not all Pokemon needs to be completely useable in the metagame. We do see a lot of crappy water types too like Luvdisc, and normal types like Dunsparce... Grass types got Tangela, Sunflora and etc... Bug types also got its fair share for non-usable Pokemon, like Butterfree.

a Pokemon with high attack, high defense and high speed plus speed boost is not a POkemon. it's a monster then... Bug got its 10 PP physical move already, which is megahorn (deadly attack power too.) Hidden Power Bug is also very powerful, with good PP and 70 attack power (that's only 5 attack power off the almighty grass attack Leaf Blade.) If they throw in a bug attack that's similar to Aerial Ace where everyone can learn it, you'll see it everywhere very soon if such a tm exist...

bug attacks are strong against so many elements its' not even funny. But good thing is that the amount of bug attacks are limited so it is under control.

Spike Razzor

"Don't argue, you failed..."

Age 34
Pokmon GB Strategies & Movesets
Seen May 22nd, 2022
Posted July 25th, 2005
857 posts
19.7 Years
not all Pokemon needs to be completely useable in the metagame. We do see a lot of crappy water types too like Luvdisc, and normal types like Dunsparce... Grass types got Tangela, Sunflora and etc... Bug types also got its fair share for non-usable Pokemon, like Butterfree.

a Pokemon with high attack, high defense and high speed plus speed boost is not a POkemon. it's a monster then... Bug got its 10 PP physical move already, which is megahorn (deadly attack power too.) Hidden Power Bug is also very powerful, with good PP and 70 attack power (that's only 5 attack power off the almighty grass attack Leaf Blade.) If they throw in a bug attack that's similar to Aerial Ace where everyone can learn it, you'll see it everywhere very soon if such a tm exist...

bug attacks are strong against so many elements its' not even funny. But good thing is that the amount of bug attacks are limited so it is under control.
Its kind of strange how they would make attacks for only 2 Pokemon, And I never said the hard shelled Bug Pokemon hade to have good speed on it own =3, Speed Boost will only work like 5 or so times then it would have no effect like all status based moves. And I don't think low status would be work and extremely good move, and Butterfree is good in a way. Able to use Psychic moves without being Psychic type, and judging by what you said Hidden Power is super effective against something your weak against.

I may not post, but I'm watching, waiting... Hehehe.

Frostweaver

Ancient + Prehistoric

Age 34
Male
Canada
Seen September 11th, 2016
Posted July 30th, 2016
8,246 posts
19.7 Years
because if Megahorn isn't trademarked on a few Pokemon, you won't see psychic, dark or bug types at all in battling...

Butterfree is a rather poor Pokemon with too low stats to be used. Having it to battle pokemon with 300-500 points higher in overall stats is going to kill Butterfree...

Speed boost won't make sense on a slow pokemon in the first place... secondly, it can make a Pokemon fast with no effort. Say you have 200 max agility at lvl 100 (which is pretty slow...) You become...

233 speed in one speed boost... and so on
267 speed
300 speed
333 speed
366 speed
400 speed after all speed boosts

400 speed is very fast. you doubled your speed with no effort in a few turns. That's deadly enough... if they did pseduohaze you you can restart the speed skyrocket procedure while attacking/buffing other categories at the same time. Speed boost is only given to 2 Pokemon who can't attack at all, so that's why it's not in the broken rank. Like give Speed boost to Gyarados and you'll imagine the terror.

Frostweaver

Ancient + Prehistoric

Age 34
Male
Canada
Seen September 11th, 2016
Posted July 30th, 2016
8,246 posts
19.7 Years
umm , like thats pretty Algebraic and Technical dont you think?
and what makes you think that Pokemon is never complicated or technical? Pokemon must be one of the hardest and most complicated game in the world...

thank goodness Bonewak is now extinct or else it'll be rejoicing in paradise in the "Legendary Rank" for the metagame along with Blocklax, Kyogre and etc...

Spike Razzor

"Don't argue, you failed..."

Age 34
Pokmon GB Strategies & Movesets
Seen May 22nd, 2022
Posted July 25th, 2005
857 posts
19.7 Years
Speed boost won't make sense on a slow pokemon in the first place... secondly, it can make a Pokemon fast with no effort. Say you have 200 max agility at lvl 100 (which is pretty slow...) You become...

400 speed is very fast. you doubled your speed with no effort in a few turns. That's deadly enough... if they did pseduohaze you you can restart the speed skyrocket procedure while attacking/buffing other categories at the same time. Speed boost is only given to 2 Pokemon who can't attack at all, so that's why it's not in the broken rank. Like give Speed boost to Gyarados and you'll imagine the terror.
Actually, speed boost on a slow Pokemon does make sence. Think of the super Bug Pokemon I was talking about as a truck (without trailer), it takes off like a snail. But as it gains speed it becomes as a fast a normal car, prob 220 if it has turbo. And yes Gyarados with Speed Boost its like Godzilla on drugs! Oh one more thing, if Ninjask is 1 of the only Pokemon that learns it and can't attack, then why is it so good like you said?

*runs off to get Ninjask*

I may not post, but I'm watching, waiting... Hehehe.

Frostweaver

Ancient + Prehistoric

Age 34
Male
Canada
Seen September 11th, 2016
Posted July 30th, 2016
8,246 posts
19.7 Years
Let's bring out Kairi's classic case...

Ninjask uses sword dance! (atk up by 2)
(opponent turn)
In between turn: speed boost (spd up by 1)
(leftover heals ninjask, if any)
Ninjask uses protect!
(oppoennt's turn but miss)
In between turn: speed boost (sped up by 1)
(leftover heals ninjask, if any)

so for every opportunity that the opponent can hit Ninajsk with, you enjoy one free agility and one swords dance. So it's either they kill you, or one agility+sword dance for you. It's the fastest and safest way to baton pass in ruby and sapphire, and speed boost is the only thing that makes Ninjask the best baton passer (therefore used in the metagame)

Speed Boost is Ninjask's life. Without it Ninjask will also go to the useless bin.

Spike Razzor

"Don't argue, you failed..."

Age 34
Pokmon GB Strategies & Movesets
Seen May 22nd, 2022
Posted July 25th, 2005
857 posts
19.7 Years
Ninjask uses sword dance! (atk up by 2)
(opponents turn:Uses move that has speed powere of 2 (Quick Attack, Extreme Speed ect.)
In between turn: speed boost (spd up by 1)
(leftover heals ninjask, if any)
Ninjask uses protect!
(opponents turn:Fly)
In between turn: speed boost (sped up by 1)
(leftover heals ninjask, if any)
(opponents turn:Fly hits)

Wow that took long....

I may not post, but I'm watching, waiting... Hehehe.

Kairi

The Original $staff_title

Female
Seen February 3rd, 2021
Posted February 1st, 2016
10,285 posts
19.7 Years
Nobody in their right mind would use Fly/Dig/Dive. It's a poor move no matter how you look at it. Besides, Ninjask could pass that turn before the Flyer came down...

Ninjask uses Protect
Foe flew up high!
Ninjask recovers with the Leftovers!
Ninjask uses Baton Pass! Ninjask, come back! Go Rhydon!
Foe used fly!
It's not very effective...

Spike Razzor

"Don't argue, you failed..."

Age 34
Pokmon GB Strategies & Movesets
Seen May 22nd, 2022
Posted July 25th, 2005
857 posts
19.7 Years
Nobody in their right mind would use Fly/Dig/Dive. It's a poor move no matter how you look at it. Besides, Ninjask could pass that turn before the Flyer came down...

Ninjask uses Protect
Foe flew up high!
Ninjask recovers with the Leftovers!
Ninjask uses Baton Pass! Ninjask, come back! Go Rhydon!
Foe used fly!
It's not very effective...
Remeber Ninjask is still a bug, so it would be either higly effective or super effective. And you obvoiusly don't know what you were doing, using fly right away is stupid, rather use fast active moves like Extreme Speed or Arieal Ace. It would do damage while the stupid bug is sitting there using sword dance.

Anyone can switch out so why use a baton passer? it takes up space and it can't even attack. I honsetly can't see a use for that Pokemon, either than wasting time. I could just use weak moves to waste up its Protect or strike once its used it already (it will failes after the 2nd or 3ed try). And the nasty lil bug dies.

I may not post, but I'm watching, waiting... Hehehe.

Spike Razzor

"Don't argue, you failed..."

Age 34
Pokmon GB Strategies & Movesets
Seen May 22nd, 2022
Posted July 25th, 2005
857 posts
19.7 Years
Nobody in their right mind would use Fly/Dig/Dive. It's a poor move no matter how you look at it. Besides, Ninjask could pass that turn before the Flyer came down...

Ninjask uses Protect
Foe flew up high!
Ninjask recovers with the Leftovers!
Ninjask uses Baton Pass! Ninjask, come back! Go Rhydon!
Foe used fly!
It's not very effective...
Remeber Ninjask is still a bug, so it would be either higly effective or super effective. And you obvoiusly don't know what you were doing, using fly right away is stupid, rather use fast active moves like Extreme Speed or Arieal Ace. It would do damage while the stupid bug is sitting there using sword dance.

Anyone can switch out so why use a baton passer? it takes up space and it can't even attack. I honsetly can't see a use for that Pokemon, either than wasting time. I could just use weak moves to waste up its Protect or strike once its used it already (it will failes after the 2nd or 3ed try). And the nasty lil bug dies.

I may not post, but I'm watching, waiting... Hehehe.

Kairi

The Original $staff_title

Female
Seen February 3rd, 2021
Posted February 1st, 2016
10,285 posts
19.7 Years
Point being, Rhydon is now out with 2x modifiers on Speed and Attack, and Baton Pass would go first so Ninjask wouldn't get hit. If you hit them with Extremespeed, good job, but it won't take it down. It will still get off that Baton Pass and make a tank, one with Megahorn nonetheless.

Aerial Ace is not a 1st turn move, it's a perfect accuracy move.