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Old October 15th, 2005 (4:51 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drayano
If Salamence doesn't have as much of a movepool as Charizard, explain how Salamence has 4 sets that work well, yet Charizard has only 1 or 2?
I think he quit when I brought up that.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groudon80
i once was in double battle and constantly kept attacking myself but won anyway
that's why rating an In-game team is pointless :/
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Old October 15th, 2005 (8:02 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drayano
Salamence IS easily better than Charizard though.



If Salamence doesn't have as much of a movepool as Charizard, explain how Salamence has 4 sets that work well, yet Charizard has only 1 or 2?
charizard has only 1 or 2? are you serious?? i just listed 3 of the basic ones. DD, belly, special, and each set has many alternatives as the DD set and belly set charizards can come in the form of pure physical zard or they can be combo sweeperts with overheat. that's more like 5 sets instead of the 1 or 2 sets. you obviously know zilch about zard. yes the standard zard only has one set(DD set), but if you're actually creative and a good trainer, the possibilities are quite endless, eventhough i find the big 3 to be the most effective, with special set as my favorite.

and salamence is the one with only 1 or two sets. it's usually DD or CB. all of its alternatives are also charizard's alternatives. charizard > mence in versatility.
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Old October 15th, 2005 (8:05 AM).
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C_dog Belly Drum Zard doesn't work anymore, at least that I've seen.:\
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Old October 15th, 2005 (9:52 AM).
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That still leaves DD Zard, Spec Zard, and mixed Zards such as a spec with EQ added.
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FT/Heat Wave
HP Grass
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Endure
252 Spd/129 ATK/129 SA
Rash/Mild nature
I think Spec Zard>this Zard, but this one kills Pika/Rai and has a Blissey counter.
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Old October 15th, 2005 (10:53 AM).
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to E4 protector: Mixed Zard sucks total *** because of Charizard's Average attack stat. it's to reliant on getting SE hits on things that OHKO it anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by c_dog
charizard has only 1 or 2? are you serious?? i just listed 3 of the basic ones. DD, belly, special, and each set has many alternatives as the DD set and belly set charizards
as mullet said, Belly Drum fails.

Quote:
can come in the form of pure physical zard or they can be combo sweeperts with overheat. that's more like 5 sets instead of the 1 or 2 sets.
uhh... I need the huge bolded text to get this across, but I'll hold back on size:

overheat is part of belly zard and DD zard. options in a moveset are NOT different movesets!

Quote:
you obviously know zilch about zard.
I know enough to be winning this arguement, considering everyone who doesn't suck at pokemon is on my side.

yes, I'm saying you suck at pokemon.

Quote:
yes the standard zard only has one set(DD set), but if you're actually creative and a good trainer, the possibilities are quite endless,
but none are really effective for reasons I have already stated.

Quote:
eventhough i find the big 3 to be the most effective, with special set as my favorite.
WOW! REPEATING YOURSELF!

REDUNDANCY IS NOT A GOOD WAY TO WIN ARGUEMENTS.

Quote:
and salamence is the one with only 1 or two sets. it's usually DD or CB. all of its alternatives are also charizard's alternatives. charizard > mence in versatility.
first off, Elemence and GPmence exist. a special and mixed Salamence! Oh ****!

and Mence > Zard in being a pokemon.

P.S. if you can't think of any new points, and have to resort to points that have already been defeated, just give up.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groudon80
i once was in double battle and constantly kept attacking myself but won anyway
that's why rating an In-game team is pointless :/
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Old October 15th, 2005 (10:58 AM).
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Quote:
oh and suicine should say hi to charizard.. heck it's a water type, a freaking water legend. i'll be ****ed if charizard can take down suicine. there are plenty of pokemon on the team who can cover suicine, pointing out suicine > charizard doesn't make charizard any less of a pokemon.
I was just pointing out a common example of something that would make your Endure-zard to flee or die. What came to mind first was Suicune, that's all.
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Old October 15th, 2005 (11:10 AM).
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just to add to what LG386 said, Suicune > Charizard does make Charizard lesser becuase Suicune is a common pokemon.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groudon80
i once was in double battle and constantly kept attacking myself but won anyway
that's why rating an In-game team is pointless :/
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Old October 15th, 2005 (11:32 AM).
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Suicune can also come equipped with IB and OHKO Mence. So Suicune makes Mence lesser as well.
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Old October 15th, 2005 (11:38 AM).
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Suicune cannot be what it is truly feared as with Ice Beam.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groudon80
i once was in double battle and constantly kept attacking myself but won anyway
that's why rating an In-game team is pointless :/
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Old October 16th, 2005 (7:47 AM).
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belly drum still works. the complaint with bellyzard is it's too fragile, but nothing timing can't help. sub+belly is also a great alternative(nothing like activating salac berries). we all know which pokemon love to use status effects, so sub the turn they try to set status, belly, and then sweep(there are many other instances to set up bellydrum, it shouldn't even be a question really). earthquake and hp fly work wonderfully together. if DD mence and gyrados are still being used, so can belly zard. :/ i mean i tried it just a couple days ago, it still works fine....
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Old October 16th, 2005 (1:12 PM).
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then tell me this: why, in my year on netbattle, have I never seen ANY charizard, much less bellyzard, KO more than 1 pokemon in one battle?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groudon80
i once was in double battle and constantly kept attacking myself but won anyway
that's why rating an In-game team is pointless :/
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Old October 16th, 2005 (2:01 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c_dog
belly drum still works. the complaint with bellyzard is it's too fragile, but nothing timing can't help. sub+belly is also a great alternative(nothing like activating salac berries). we all know which pokemon love to use status effects, so sub the turn they try to set status, belly, and then sweep(there are many other instances to set up bellydrum, it shouldn't even be a question really). earthquake and hp fly work wonderfully together. if DD mence and gyrados are still being used, so can belly zard. :/ i mean i tried it just a couple days ago, it still works fine....
Sorry to burst your bubble but Rock Blast=dead Zard. So Sub won't help!:\
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Old October 16th, 2005 (11:39 PM).
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Quote:
then tell me this: why, in my year on netbattle, have I never seen ANY charizard, much less bellyzard, KO more than 1 pokemon in one battle?
because you only challenge newbies? my charizard has sweeped more than its fair share of pokemon.

Quote:
Sorry to burst your bubble but Rock Blast=dead Zard. So Sub won't help!
and which of the OU's actually use rockblast? :/ and you'd be an idiot if you didn't switch when you see a pokemon likely to use rockblast to break your sub. fact is bellyzards can still be set up more often than not.
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Old October 17th, 2005 (6:51 AM).
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for the love of god, someone close this topic. It's pointless. Salamence = good. Charizard = good/decent, depending on who's using it. Salamence > Charizard. Both have counters. Let's just leave it at that.
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Old October 17th, 2005 (7:16 AM).
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This does need shut down. Besides, the original topic was D Claw. So lets forget Sala and Char and go back to discussing D Claw.
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Old October 17th, 2005 (12:42 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c_dog
because you only challenge newbies? my charizard has sweeped more than its fair share of pokemon.


and which of the OU's actually use rockblast? :/ and you'd be an idiot if you didn't switch when you see a pokemon likely to use rockblast to break your sub. fact is bellyzards can still be set up more often than not.
You just said something totally dumb. You said whick of the OUs actually use Rock Blast, and then you said if you see one likely then switch, your not going to expect it if an OU has it.

Plus you Sub I break it, then you Belly, then I kill Zard, lol.
:P
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Old October 17th, 2005 (1:02 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elitefour_protector
Suicune can also come equipped with IB and OHKO Mence. So Suicune makes Mence lesser as well.
No one keeps a Salamence against a Suicune packing an Ice Beam unles you hit him hard on the switch

Quote:
and which of the OU's actually use rockblast? :/ and you'd be an idiot if you didn't switch when you see a pokemon likely to use rockblast to break your sub. fact is bellyzards can still be set up more often than not.
Rhydon, Golem, Armaldo. Rhydon is quite common in OU nowadays

Quote:
belly drum still works. the complaint with bellyzard is it's too fragile, but nothing timing can't help. sub+belly is also a great alternative(nothing like activating salac berries). we all know which pokemon love to use status effects, so sub the turn they try to set status, belly, and then sweep(there are many other instances to set up bellydrum, it shouldn't even be a question really). earthquake and hp fly work wonderfully together. if DD mence and gyrados are still being used, so can belly zard. :/ i mean i tried it just a couple days ago, it still works fine....
No one lets Charizard get a Belly Drum in, unless you switch in a CB Earthquake, good luck getting Belly Drum in, even if you get in on the switch, they can switch to something faster than Carizard to kill him in one hit. No one uses Status Effects on pokemon that onciously have Substitute unless you predict well.

No one uses DD Mence for the same reason people don't use Bellyzard, they are too fragile. Gyardos can DD because he has a cool Special Defence and Intimidate, letting him get hurt less when he switches in.

In conclusion, only people from Groudon Forums and Mullet (Hi Mullet :)) know what they are talking about
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Old October 17th, 2005 (1:34 PM).
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You forgot about Altaria. It is a Dragon Type AND it can learn Dragon Claw.
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Old October 17th, 2005 (1:43 PM).
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Dragon Claw is really only used on Altaria, but Altaria was never meant too damage much anyway. Dragon Claw may be usefull ingame, but n NB it fails, since all Dragons except Kingdra are 4x weak to Ice, thus HP Ice is better
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Old October 17th, 2005 (6:57 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c_dog
because you only challenge newbies? my charizard has sweeped more than its fair share of pokemon.
it's becuase YOU only chalange newbs.

BTW, cool people say newbs.

Quote:
and which of the OU's actually use rockblast? :/
Rhydon.

Quote:
and you'd be an idiot if you didn't switch when you see a pokemon likely to use rockblast to break your sub.
and make you lose 25% HP and prevent Belly Drum.

Quote:
fact is bellyzards can still be set up more often than not.
then explain why I have never seen it set up ONCE, never had any solid proof that it was set up and swept someone who doesn't use things like Shock Wave Mewtwo ONCE, and never even had to worry about it ONCE?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groudon80
i once was in double battle and constantly kept attacking myself but won anyway
that's why rating an In-game team is pointless :/
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Old October 17th, 2005 (6:59 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mullet
You just said something totally dumb. You said whick of the OUs actually use Rock Blast, and then you said if you see one likely then switch, your not going to expect it if an OU has it.


what??? Rhydon, Golem, Armaldo are the pokemon likely to use rockblast, it's true. blissey, skarm, salamence, jolteon, starmie, ttar, metagross, militic, some of the most OU's of OU's do not have rockblast. heck when i was testing the belly zard i ran into ONE pokemon who had rockblast(rhydon) who tried to use it against my zard. switching does it. the wasted turn doesn't matter anyway, zard can just belly the next time it gets the chance. as long as it activates salac and gets belly, that's all it needs. there was nothing dumb about my post.
Quote:
Plus you Sub I break it, then you Belly, then I kill Zard, lol.
Quote:
:P
who's the dumb one now? i've already stated from the very first time i posted the belly zard set that bellydrum should only be used at the opportune moments. the moments are easily calculated if you know what you're doing(rest, aromatherapy, recovery, status on sub, switch, CM, curse, etc etc). sub works against OU's without rockblast as you can sub(calculated), then activate salac with belly drum the next turn when they break your sub. it's not that complicated.
Quote:
for the love of god, someone close this topic. It's pointless. Salamence = good. Charizard = good/decent, depending on who's using it. Salamence > Charizard. Both have counters. Let's just leave it at that.
i second this. i just want to make sure people know that charizard isn't garbage like certain people make him out to be.
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Old October 17th, 2005 (7:10 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c_dog
what??? Rhydon, Golem, Armaldo are the pokemon likely to use rockblast, it's true. blissey, skarm, salamence, jolteon, starmie, ttar, metagross, militic, some of the most OU's of OU's do not have rockblast. heck when i was testing the belly zard i ran into ONE pokemon who had rockblast(rhydon) who tried to use it against my zard. switching does it. the wasted turn doesn't matter anyway, zard can just belly the next time it gets the chance. as long as it activates salac and gets belly, that's all it needs. there was nothing dumb about my post.
hey! Earth is a planet!

what you said is as obvious as that :/

Quote:
who's the dumb one now?
well, you still haven't proved **** and are going on about a strategy that obviously doesn't work becuase it never is used anymore. people will use things that are good, and they ain't using Charizard.

Quote:
i've already stated from the very first time i posted the belly zard set that bellydrum should only be used at the opportune moments. the moments are easily calculated if you know what you're doing(rest, aromatherapy, recovery, status on sub, switch, CM, curse, etc etc). sub works against OU's without rockblast as you can sub(calculated), then activate salac with belly drum the next turn when they break your sub. it's not that complicated.

i second this. i just want to make sure people know that charizard isn't garbage like certain people make him out to be.
blah blah blah dammit can't you come up with new ****? you've already posted this **** but with different wording.

BTW, I'm going to have to use a Belly Zard my ****ing self if it would get you to shut up.

P.S. what happened to the argument about it being = Salamence? now, you are arguing that it has ANY quality. I guess I won both the 'Sala>Zard'
and the 'Sala=/=Zard but Sala>Zard' arguments :)

P.P.S. IM IN UR BASE

P.P.P.S IM KILLIN UR DOODS!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groudon80
i once was in double battle and constantly kept attacking myself but won anyway
that's why rating an In-game team is pointless :/
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Old October 17th, 2005 (7:12 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ham
Rhydon.



and make you lose 25% HP and prevent Belly Drum.


then explain why I have never seen it set up ONCE, never had any solid proof that it was set up and swept someone who doesn't use things like Shock Wave Mewtwo ONCE, and never even had to worry about it ONCE?
yes, rhydon and it's not even that OU. if you do see a rhydon then yeah, switch, i'll take my chances though since it's not even that common. as i've stated i saw only one the entire time i was testing belly.

the 25% hp isn't wasted. as long as it activates salac after belly drum on the next turn. belly drum will just have to wait til next time.

not once? i got it set up more often than not when i was testing it out.. :S like i said, it still works(though i'm semi disappointed in its power as it had problems OHKO'ing suicine...).

and maybe i do challenge noobs.. i mean if husk and torkoal are noobs then yeah, i fight noobs. i challenge people on smogon server, and those who challenge me, so maybe it's just my dumb luck if it happens that everyone i've battled have been noobs.
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Old October 17th, 2005 (7:23 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ham
hey! Earth is a planet!

what you said is as obvious as that :/



well, you still haven't proved **** and are going on about a strategy that obviously doesn't work becuase it never is used anymore. people will use things that are good, and they ain't using Charizard.



blah blah blah dammit can't you come up with new ****? you've already posted this **** but with different wording.

BTW, I'm going to have to use a Belly Zard my ****ing self if it would get you to shut up.

P.S. what happened to the argument about it being = Salamence? now, you are arguing that it has ANY quality. I guess I won both the 'Sala>Zard'
and the 'Sala=/=Zard but Sala>Zard' arguments :)

P.P.S. IM IN UR BASE

P.P.P.S IM KILLIN UR DOODS!
i'd reply point for point, but all of it would be just a waste of time for this reason: u need to learn to read the post. everything i said have been a direct response to the quotes i quoted. it's not what i say but the context to which my posts apply to. if you never understand this then no matter how many times i post certains things you'll never get it. that's why replying to you is often just a waste of time because you just dont' understand the basis of applying things in context.
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Old October 18th, 2005 (5:14 AM).
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U need to stop talking like this, Torkoal_7 is waaaaay up your level, they would never get a Charzard het a Belly Drum without killing him first.

What Ham has been saying is you need to stop using the same arguements that have already been proved wrong. Charizard cannot beat Salamence in power, versatility and usabilty. Charizard can't kill anything without dieing the next turn, at least Salamence hits harder AND faster, reason why CB Mence dominates, I'd like to see Charizard doing that without getting a Belly Drum and Salac in before dieing the next turn
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