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Old October 18th, 2005 (5:25 AM). Edited October 18th, 2005 by Ham.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c_dog
i'd reply point for point, but all of it would be just a waste of time for this reason: u need to learn to read the post.
I would, but then I realized that I could read a post of yours 2 pages ago and see the same points.

Quote:
everything i said have been a direct response to the quotes i quoted. it's not what i say but the context to which my posts apply to.
so... you're trying to confuse me into submission by using fancy language instead of actually arguing? what a great man you are, C_dog.

BTW, my brother says you aren't actually saying anything in particular, and he's in AP English 3

Quote:
if you never understand this then no matter how many times i post certains things you'll never get it.
n00bish sentaments are something I don't want to get.

Quote:
that's why replying to you is often just a waste of time because you just dont' understand the basis of applying things in context.
so... you give up, huh?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groudon80
i once was in double battle and constantly kept attacking myself but won anyway
that's why rating an In-game team is pointless :/
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Old October 18th, 2005 (6:54 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pax Deorum
U need to stop talking like this, Torkoal_7 is waaaaay up your level, they would never get a Charzard het a Belly Drum without killing him first.

What Ham has been saying is you need to stop using the same arguements that have already been proved wrong. Charizard cannot beat Salamence in power, versatility and usabilty. Charizard can't kill anything without dieing the next turn, at least Salamence hits harder AND faster, reason why CB Mence dominates, I'd like to see Charizard doing that without getting a Belly Drum and Salac in before dieing the next turn
everything you said have been answered in earlier pages. and no, none of my arguments have been proved wrong. charizard is faster than salamence because most salamence spreads its ev's in sp.att and whatnot, and even the fastest of all salamence is only as fast as charizard, not faster. usually a salamence is slower. and versatility, i just said charizard has more movesets at its disposal, making it more unpredictable and versatile. and belly and salac work w/o charizard dieing, it's not that hard.

and for what it's worth, i've beaten torkoal before, and usually with my half NU and half OU team of pikachu, blastoise, venasaur, charizard, heracross, and snorlax. so much for being levels ahead of me. husk is actually the best battler in these boards and even he has lost to my ash team... twice in a row. :S

Quote:
so... you're trying to confuse me into submission by using fancy language instead of actually arguing? what a great man you are, C_dog.

BTW, my brother says you aren't actually saying anything in particular, and he's in AP Englis
er, it's not fancy language. it's simple. all my replies have to direct response to the quotes i quoted. it's that simple. so if you just read the quote that i quoted, then read my response, then everything should make sense.

it's like how you'd say "salamence is better than zard @ DD" then "belly drum fails" then "typholsion>zard at special sweep" when i was listing charizard's different movesets, trying to make the point that he's versatile. yeah, his movesets may be outdone by one pokemon or another, but the point is he can do all sets with enough effectiveness, making him a versatile pokemon. unpredictability is a big plus in pokemon battle. it makes the opponent much tougher to make a move.

and the quote doesn't mean anything to your brother because your brother hasn't been following this thread. :/ like i said, i was not trying to be fancy.
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Old October 18th, 2005 (6:55 AM).
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rofl. Trying to make us seem inferior to try and prove something false. I gave up reading his posts as well, but only cuz i kept seeing some of the same pointless things, as well as his flip flopping issue on the Sala vs. Char thing. Don't deny it, you at first said that Charizard was better than sala. Then you said it's just as useful. Then you agreed with us that Sala > Char, but trying to make a point as to try and lead us back to your first opinion.


How the hell is all this off main topic pointlessness not deleted/closed yet?
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Old October 18th, 2005 (7:03 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UmbreonShadow
rofl. Trying to make us seem inferior to try and prove something false. I gave up reading his posts as well, but only cuz i kept seeing some of the same pointless things, as well as his flip flopping issue on the Sala vs. Char thing. Don't deny it, you at first said that Charizard was better than sala. Then you said it's just as useful. Then you agreed with us that Sala > Char, but trying to make a point as to try and lead us back to your first opinion.


How the hell is all this off main topic pointlessness not deleted/closed yet?
i dare you to find a quote where i said charizard >>>> salamence. find it. i did say charizard can beat salamence one on one, which is true in certain situations, but find me a quote where i said charizard is better than mence. find it.

i've already replied to you anyway. and yea, charizard is also a very useful pokemon, arguably just as useful as salamence, very underrated. the fact is i admitted i forgot that salamence does have the intimidate factor going for him, giving him an edge(i can find the quote for ya if you want, where i admitted it), so with that i do agree that salamence is the better pokemon, but that doesn't change the fact that charizard is still very very good with the versatility factor going for him.
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Old October 18th, 2005 (7:19 AM). Edited October 18th, 2005 by Pax Deorum.
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Salamence vs pokemon
You send out Charizard
Salamence used Rock Slide
Charizard fainted

Salamence vs Charizard
Charizard used attack (X% damage)
Salamence used Rock Slide (100% damage)
Charizard fainted

Possible Salamence Movesets

[email protected] Band
-Earthquake
-HP Flying
-Rock Slide
-Brick Break/Fire Blast

[email protected]
-Dragon Dance
-Earthquake
-HP Flying
-Rock Slide

[email protected]
-Hydro Pump
-Fire Blast
-Crunch
-HP Ice/Dragon Claw

All of these kill Charizard 1 on 1, the first two kill him in with Rock Slide, the last one with Hydro Pump.

Damage a Charizard can do to an no HP/no Sp. Defence EVs Salamence with Dragon Claw and an activated Petaya Berry

Minimum Damage 84%
Average Damage 92%
Maximum Damage 99%

Salamence uses Rock Slide and it's obviously a OHKO
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Old October 18th, 2005 (7:55 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c_dog
i dare you to find a quote where i said charizard >>>> salamence. find it. i did say charizard can beat salamence one on one, which is true in certain situations, but find me a quote where i said charizard is better than mence. find it.
the falsehood is that Zard = Mence.

Quote:
i've already replied to you anyway. and yea, charizard is also a very useful pokemon, arguably just as useful as salamence, very underrated.
as useful, not FAR as effective.

Quote:
the fact is i admitted i forgot that salamence does have the intimidate factor going for him, giving him an edge(i can find the quote for ya if you want, where i admitted it), so with that i do agree that salamence is the better pokemon, but that doesn't change the fact that charizard is still very very good with the versatility factor going for him.
you can't change what kills Charizard's quality:
his lackluster stats
his **** special movepool
his lack of defenses.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groudon80
i once was in double battle and constantly kept attacking myself but won anyway
that's why rating an In-game team is pointless :/
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Old October 18th, 2005 (7:56 AM). Edited October 18th, 2005 by c_dog.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pax Deorum
Salamence vs pokemon
You send out Charizard
Salamence used Rock Slide
Charizard fainted

Salamence vs Charizard
Charizard used attack (X% damage)
Salamence used Rock Slide (100% damage)
Charizard fainted

Possible Salamence Movesets

[email protected] Band
-Earthquake
-HP Flying
-Rock Slide
-Brick Break/Fire Blast

[email protected]
-Dragon Dance
-Earthquake
-HP Flying
-Rock Slide

[email protected]
-Hydro Pump
-Fire Blast
-Crunch
-HP Ice/Dragon Claw

All of these kill Charizard 1 on 1, the first two kill him in with Rock Slide, the last one with Hydro Pump.

Damage a Charizard can do to an no HP/no Sp. Defence EVs Salamence with Dragon Claw and an activated Petaya Berry

Minimum Damage 84%
Average Damage 92%
Maximum Damage 99%

Salamence uses Rock Slide and it's obviously a OHKO
yes if salamence uses rockslide it wins, but there are certain salamence that doesn't have rockslide as it ops to use hpflying, earthquake, Dd, and fireblast. also charizard can win if it gets salamence on the switch with Dclaw. and there are also circumstances where salamence ops to dragon dance when facing off charizard, this is most often how charizard ends up beating salamence. then there's the hax where rockslide misses :S there are situations where charizard can win, even though yeah, salamence if it has rockslide, wins, if it doesn't dragon dance.
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Old October 18th, 2005 (8:08 AM).
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Perfect. I have beaten Sala with Zard because no one uses the direct hit. They DD or something like that. 90% Acc for RS means that, even if Sala uses RS, there is still a 10% of Zard getting another D Claw in. And the switch move works too. But we all have better things to kill Mence with anyway, so just use those. Also, test the Peyata-powered D Claw on Mence and see how much damage a Modest Zard with 252 EVs in SA would do to a Mence with standard EVs.

But enough of that, this is offtopic. If you want to discuss Sala vs Char, try another post. D Claw is useful for flameclaw on Rayquaza/Dragonite/Charizard fora neutral hit on anything and ability to kill Shedinja.
reports thread to Husk for closing
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Old October 18th, 2005 (8:29 AM).
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Too bad you're both using a Salamence which is very rarely seen, DD Mence. CB Mence always carry Rock Slide, so it's pointless to argue with that.

Also

Begin Turn #11
Suck *** ***** used Belly Drum!
Suck *** ***** cut its own HP and maximied Attack!
---------------------------------
Freud used Thunder Wave!
Suck *** ***** is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!
---------------------------------
Freud's Leftovers restored its HP a little!
End of turn #11
Ham-'s Suck *** *****: 50% HP (Par)
Pax Deorum [UU]'s Freud: 192 HP


See
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Old October 18th, 2005 (9:10 AM).
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Wait.......... help me out here, just to let me know if i'm missing something:


Charizard used Dragon Claw! (60% Damage)
Salamence used Dragon Dance!
Salamence's Attack rose!
Salamence's Speed rose!

Salamence used Rock Slide!
Charizard fainted!


No seriously, I'm obviously missing something if you say that Charizard beats Sala 1 on 1 if people opt for using Draogn Dance that turn, or are you refering to that after it does damage with Dragon claw, it switches out?
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Old October 18th, 2005 (1:01 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c_dog
who's the dumb one now? i've already stated from the very first time i posted the belly zard set that bellydrum should only be used at the opportune moments. the moments are easily calculated if you know what you're doing(rest, aromatherapy, recovery, status on sub, switch, CM, curse, etc etc). sub works against OU's without rockblast as you can sub(calculated), then activate salac with belly drum the next turn when they break your sub. it's not that complicated.
How am I being dumb, Jolt can do exatly what I said, and he doesn't use recovery moves, so you would never do it when he's out, and I wouldn't let you get a chance, unless I'm just not thinking about the battle. If you can't get an opperturne moment then he's useless.

One more question, why don't you use proper capitilization.
:\
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Old October 18th, 2005 (1:04 PM).
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Don't bother with him anymore Mullet, we know we are right and he's just using stupid arguements, you're too cool for him
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Old October 18th, 2005 (3:38 PM).
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BTW, Suck *** ***** is a Charizard.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groudon80
i once was in double battle and constantly kept attacking myself but won anyway
that's why rating an In-game team is pointless :/
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Old October 18th, 2005 (3:49 PM).
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C_dog is a cool guy, but he just likes Zard too much!:\
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Old October 19th, 2005 (3:33 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UmbreonShadow
Wait.......... help me out here, just to let me know if i'm missing something:


Charizard used Dragon Claw! (60% Damage)
Salamence used Dragon Dance!
Salamence's Attack rose!
Salamence's Speed rose!

Salamence used Rock Slide!
Charizard fainted!


No seriously, I'm obviously missing something if you say that Charizard beats Sala 1 on 1 if people opt for using Draogn Dance that turn, or are you refering to that after it does damage with Dragon claw, it switches out?
YES. charizard has endure+salac. it's been covered on the first page. it's broken if blissey is switched in, but since we're talking about strictly one on one, charizard kills salamence if it doesn't switch.

Quote:
If you can't get an opperturne moment then he's useless
it's easy to get an opportune moment to set up. :/ i always set up heracross and charizard just fine. in fact i'll quote myself again...
Quote:
the moments are easily calculated if you know what you're doing(rest, aromatherapy, recovery, status on sub, switch, CM, curse, etc etc
there are definitely chances to set up belly zard. like i said, when i tested it out it worked out extremely well, i almost always set up charizard and i only ran into one rockblaster who was rhydon. you can say belly doesn't work, but i just tested it and results say otherwise.

whatever, you guys don't have to respect charizard. i know he's good and that's why i keep using him. and perhaps i do love charizard too much, enough that i'd use him over salamence who's superior statistically, but meh, it's that much more fun to win with pokemon you like, especially when they're BL-UU. i think my special zard is certainly as useful as any OU's... My record on netbattle, even my track record against some of the best battlers on these boards, speak for themselves. maybe charizard does suck, but as long as i keep winning with him then i don't really care.
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Old October 19th, 2005 (6:57 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c_dog
i dare you to find a quote where i said charizard >>>> salamence. find it. i did say charizard can beat salamence one on one, which is true in certain situations, but find me a quote where i said charizard is better than mence. find it.

orly?


Quote:
Originally Posted by c_dog
well, guess what, you said salamence is better than charizard in terms of usefulness but i say you're way wrong(you said charizard makes mence look better, no?). charizard is just as good as salamence if you are comparing their DD and physical sweep ability, plus charizard is versatile enough to be an effective special sweepert(what i go with). so i really don't understand where you're coming from with the whole "charizard just makes mence looks better" crap. i think you're just horribly underrating charizard.

the fact that charizard can beat salamence 1vs 1 just makes him seem that much stronger. charizard can do everything salamence can do, and more( DD/rockslide/hpflying/flamethower, these are in charizard's fortee too). saying you've destroyed teams with your mence means nothing because i've destroyed plenty myself with zard. :/

and charizard has as much weakness as salamence. they're both weak to the standard rockslide and tbolt, and mence is weak to ice while zard is weak to water. the difference here is mence is slightly less fragile, but meh, not much of a difference.

That's like your 4 or 5th post. Of course i underlined a few things, but that's your post is it not? You generally referred to Charizard being better than Salamence, then keep flip-flopping between that and saying that they're equal.
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Old October 19th, 2005 (12:23 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c_dog
it's easy to get an opportune moment to set up. :/ i always set up heracross and charizard just fine. in fact i'll quote myself again...
there are definitely chances to set up belly zard. like i said, when i tested it out it worked out extremely well, i almost always set up charizard and i only ran into one rockblaster who was rhydon. you can say belly doesn't work, but i just tested it and results say otherwise.
A person whose actually trying to win won't let you set up. They will be like OMG Zard, lol Rock Slide, and we end up with a crushed Zard. They should know it might be a Drum Zard, because you should suspect the unexpected, and kill it like it might be a threat.

I'll test out the Drum Zard, and see what happens.
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Old October 19th, 2005 (2:40 PM).
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Bellyzard fails. speaking form personal experence. it needed an ENTIRE TEAM of support to only KO 5 pokemon, and that was against a sucky person who kept using fire moves from a Blaziken on an Umbreon O_o
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groudon80
i once was in double battle and constantly kept attacking myself but won anyway
that's why rating an In-game team is pointless :/
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Old October 19th, 2005 (5:37 PM).
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Rofl. Go my favorite pokemon. Kick the arse of a pokemon that would normally 2HKO you with a STABed move!
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Old October 20th, 2005 (5:58 AM). Edited October 20th, 2005 by c_dog.
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Quote:
well, guess what, you said salamence is better than charizard in terms of usefulness [i]but i say you're way wrong[i]
i said find where i said charizard is better than mence. this is not it. i said *charizard* is not way better than mence, that's not the same as saying charizard>>> mence.

Quote:
the fact that charizard can beat salamence 1vs 1 just makes him seem that much stronger. charizard can do everything salamence can do, and more( DD/rockslide/hpflying/flamethower, these are in charizard's fortee too). saying you've destroyed teams with your mence means nothing because i've destroyed plenty myself with zard. :/
none of the points here imply charizard>>> mence. "makes him seem that much stronger" says everything about charzard being strong, that's it; you don't know your english :( the word "stronger" threw you off but there was not a comparison between charizard and mence in that sentence, it was advocating the fact that charizard is strong.

as for the second part "and more", it's true. charizard has more effective sets than salamence, i've already said plenty times charizard is more versatile. of course, this also doesn't say charizard>>> mence, just that charizard has the versatility factor going for him.

so the problem here is just because i'm defending charizard by making certain comparisons to salamence you think i'm saying charizard>mence, but i'm not. :/ that's why i said "find a quote where i said charizard> mence" because at no point did i say that.

edit: changed salamence to charizard in the first sentence
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explosions on snorlax: 4 and counting -_-;;
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Old October 20th, 2005 (6:04 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mullet
A person whose actually trying to win won't let you set up. They will be like OMG Zard, lol Rock Slide, and we end up with a crushed Zard. They should know it might be a Drum Zard, because you should suspect the unexpected, and kill it like it might be a threat.

I'll test out the Drum Zard, and see what happens.
yea, test it, then get back to me. i tested it just a week ago and it worked like a charm. yea, people won't let you set up, but meh, they can try all they want but there's still a way.

yea, they'll try to rockslide, but remember i said you send out charizard when you have a chance to set up sub? people say i'm repeating myself but it's just that people never learn.
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explosions on snorlax: 4 and counting -_-;;
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Old October 20th, 2005 (7:05 AM).
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Frickin Close This Already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
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Old October 20th, 2005 (7:07 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c_dog
i said salamence is not way better than mence,

Yes. Yes, Salamence is not way better........than...itself.......


Quote:
Originally Posted by c_dog
so the problem here is just because i'm defending charizard by making certain comparisons to salamence you think i'm saying charizard>mence, but i'm not. :/ that's why i said "find a quote where i said charizard> mence" because at no point did i say that.
As long as you're implying it by the words you type, that's good enough for me to consider it your opinion.
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Old October 20th, 2005 (8:01 AM).
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c_dog c_dog is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UmbreonShadow
Yes. Yes, Salamence is not way better........than...itself.......




As long as you're implying it by the words you type, that's good enough for me to consider it your opinion.
i'm very out of it today.. -_-;; i changed it to *charizard*. maybe now that sentence makes a little more sense.

and you can think whatever. just because i was arguing that charizard is good too doesn't mean i was saying it's better than mence. you're the one who made the assumption yourself. :/ i do like charizard more than mence for sentimental reasons, but that's my preference. i didn't at any point claim charizard is better than mence. hence you can throw your flip flop accusation in the garbage.
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Pikachu+Heracross+Venasaur+Blastoise+Charizard+Snorlax = Dream Team
^ This ash team is invincible :P
Proud member of the "Clan".

explosions on snorlax: 4 and counting -_-;;
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Old October 20th, 2005 (9:11 AM).
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Synchronize Synchronize is offline
Donphan: My Fourth Love
 
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Nah, I'd rather throw all your previous "rambling" in the garbage. And i wish someone would delete this topic and throw away ALL this garbage.

Recap:

Dragon Claw = Overrated.
D. Claw users give their opinion of Flameclaw.
General users give the fact of boltbeam/pseudo-boltbeam vs. flameclaw.
Salamence > Charizard
Charizard = useful to an extent
Both sides pointlessly defend nothing but dignity
My topic = pointless now
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