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Old November 14th, 2005 (6:37 AM).
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Arcanine (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 6 Spd / 252 SAtk
Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
- Extremespeed
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Return

I love Arcanine, and this one packs a surprise. OHKO's Dugtrio with Extremespeed, OHKO's Tyranitar with HP Fighting and 2HKO's Blissey and Snorlax with HP Fighting. Also, Extremespeed usually gets Ninjask too low to create a Substitute. Maybe Fire Blast or Overheat?

Donphan (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 186 HP / 190 Atk / 134 Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Counter
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Roar

Physical tanking, phazes physical set-ups.

Jynx (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Oblivious
EVs: 86 HP / 172 Spd / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Ice Beam
- Lovely Kiss
- Psychic

This thing owns late in the game.

Vaporeon (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 82 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Roar
- Surf
- Wish

Protect + Wish is cool but doesn't fit in. I'd like to Baton Pass Wish to Donphan too, since Donphan is often too low on health to be switched in to get Wish, but what should I take out then for Baton Pass?

Celebi @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 124 HP / 100 Def / 120 Spd / 160 SAtk / 6 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Leech Seed
- Recover

Meh, I had Skarm-trouble so I put HP Fire. Psychic makes it more usable though. I'm not sure on the EV's. This spread gives maximum leftovers recovery. Both defense stats are on 260 ... What to do?

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Def / 56 SAtk / 114 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Aromatherapy
- Ice Beam
- Seismic Toss
- Softboiled

I had Thunder Wave over Ice Beam first, but I like this better. Also OHKO's Salamences with strange EV spreads.
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Old November 14th, 2005 (7:11 AM).
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Comments in bold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trusty Arcanine
Arcanine (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 6 Spd / 252 SAtk
Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
- Extremespeed
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Return

I love Arcanine, and this one packs a surprise. OHKO's Dugtrio with Extremespeed, OHKO's Tyranitar with HP Fighting and 2HKO's Blissey and Snorlax with HP Fighting. Also, Extremespeed usually gets Ninjask too low to create a Substitute. Maybe Fire Blast or Overheat?
imo, go with Overheat over Ft, since most of the time it is going to switch out after it attacks anyway. Also, Brave>Lonely nature on it, not like it is going to be outspeeding much anyway.

Donphan (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 186 HP / 190 Atk / 134 Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Counter
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Roar

Physical tanking, phazes physical set-ups.
since you already have roar on vap, you could try rest over roar here.

Jynx (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Oblivious
EVs: 86 HP / 172 Spd / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Ice Beam
- Lovely Kiss
- Psychic

This thing owns late in the game.
needs more timid nature. maybe consider sub, or even mean look over psychic on this.

Vaporeon (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 82 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Roar
- Surf
- Wish

Protect + Wish is cool but doesn't fit in. I'd like to Baton Pass Wish to Donphan too, since Donphan is often too low on health to be switched in to get Wish, but what should I take out then for Baton Pass?
go with bold nature.

Celebi @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 124 HP / 100 Def / 120 Spd / 160 SAtk / 6 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Leech Seed
- Recover

Meh, I had Skarm-trouble so I put HP Fire. Psychic makes it more usable though. I'm not sure on the EV's. This spread gives maximum leftovers recovery. Both defense stats are on 260 ... What to do?
HP Electric>Fire. go with 240 HP / 128 Def / a bit speed / rest in SDef.

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Def / 56 SAtk / 114 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Aromatherapy
- Ice Beam
- Seismic Toss
- Softboiled

I had Thunder Wave over Ice Beam first, but I like this better. Also OHKO's Salamences with strange EV spreads.
put those SDef EVs into hp imo.
Watch out for normal CBers, because the lack of a normal resist will hurt. Other than that though, I can't really identify any glaring weaknesses.

I hope this helps.
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Old November 14th, 2005 (8:08 AM).
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I'd use Haze on Vappy. Maybe Baton Pass over Ice Beam since Jynx has the dept. covered.
I also would personally use HP Grass on Celebi for Stab
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Old November 14th, 2005 (3:08 PM). Edited November 14th, 2005 by Pyrotechnix.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trusty Arcanine
Arcanine (M) @ Choice Band /Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 6 Spd / 252 SAtk
Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
- Extremespeed
- Overheat
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Return/Howl

Overheat will work, as Arcanine overall doesn't have the greatest defenses to stick around very long. Hit N' Run. Also, if you aren't going to give this speed, Brave over Lonely. If you can afford a set up, put Howl on this, and it will hurt even more stuff. Maybe take some of those SAtk EVs and put them into your Spd or Def, since Overheat + Fire STAB + Arcanine's naturally good SAtk will do more than enough for you.

Donphan (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 186 HP / 190 Atk / 134 Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Counter
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Roar

For some reason, I like being able to have Rock Slide on this, but it's your pogey. This looks fine.

Jynx (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Oblivious
EVs: 86 HP / 172 Spd / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Ice Beam
- Lovely Kiss
- Psychic

Just make sure to be keeping this late in the game, and don't pull it out until you absolutely have to.

Vaporeon (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 82 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Baton Pass
- Haze
- Surf
- Wish

First off, if this is gonna be supportive, Bold over Modest. With you having Jynx, Ice Beam isn't necessary. Haze over Roar because if you have Haze and no Spikers, why use Roar mirite.

Celebi @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 124 HP / 100 Def / 120 Spd / 160 SAtk / 6 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Psychic
- Recover

If this is a Calm Minder, you can really afford to drop some of that SAtk and put it into Def/HP/SDef. HP Grass is more useful on a Celebi CM set than HP Fire. For Pete's sakes, you have Arcanine and Vaporeon, both of whom score pretty significant SE/Neutral damage (respectively) to Skarm. SDef is not as much of a concern to raise as is Defense, I'd get it up into the 300 range and give Celebi Bold. After one CM, you've got enough SDef to survive random Ice Beams, and Heracrosses/Salamences/Random HP Buggers are going to be your main concerns.

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Def / 56 SAtk / 114 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Aromatherapy
- Ice Beam
- Seismic Toss
- Softboiled

Hey, somebody who still uses IB Bliss. Thank heaven.
The lack of overall physical attacking, as well as the lack of a true defensive wall, concerns me. Regice or Blissey can almost completely wall this team by themselves, and Snorlax will not only wall it but punish it. As cool as Jynx is, imo it needs to be replaced with a CBer.
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Old November 14th, 2005 (5:14 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrotechnix
Comments Bolded.



The lack of overall physical attacking, as well as the lack of a true defensive wall, concerns me. Regice or Blissey can almost completely wall this team by themselves, and Snorlax will not only wall it but punish it. As cool as Jynx is, imo it needs to be replaced with a CBer.
Hmm, I like the OHKO's on Tyranitar and Dugtrio, since nobody expects them and therefore don't switch out.

I have Ice Beam on Vaporeon because I can't pull out Jynx to a starting Salamence. Roar was for Substitutes.

I like your Celebi suggestions, I'll look into them.

Snorlax and Blissey don't give me trouble. Arcanine can take care of them, and Jynx beats them one on one at the end. Snorlax is owned by Donphan too, and neither of them likes Leech Seed. Regice hasn't troubled me either, though I only fought one once with this team.
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Old November 15th, 2005 (4:21 AM).
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CounterBliss and EQLax both laugh at your Arcanine, then sweep it, and continue on with their lives. Jynx can not beat Lax or Bliss one on one, you are kidding yourself. Lax will absorb the special attack and beat Jynx down, and Bliss will Seismic Toss you to death while Softboileding off the damage.

Jynx, iirc, can be faster than starting Salamences. Alter the EVs to make it so, if need be.
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Old November 15th, 2005 (7:59 AM).
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Personally I'd remove Jynx and RK9 to add something a little more defensive (of course I AM more of a defensive player =/) Like Swampert or Steelix
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Old November 15th, 2005 (10:50 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrotechnix
CounterBliss and EQLax both laugh at your Arcanine, then sweep it, and continue on with their lives. Jynx can not beat Lax or Bliss one on one, you are kidding yourself. Lax will absorb the special attack and beat Jynx down, and Bliss will Seismic Toss you to death while Softboileding off the damage.

Jynx, iirc, can be faster than starting Salamences. Alter the EVs to make it so, if need be.
CounterBliss doesn't kill Arcanine, since I'm not going HP Fighting against it until it's under 65% or until I know the moveset. Kinda duh IMO. >.<
Dude. Ever heard of Lovely Kiss? Put Blissey to sleep, Calm Mind twice and Ice Beam is a 2HKO. Same for Snorlax. And no, Blissey can't Seismic Toss me while asleep.

Jynx can be faster than starting Salamences, so what? That still doesn't make it wise to switch it in. >.<
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Old November 15th, 2005 (12:04 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trusty Arcanine


CounterBliss doesn't kill Arcanine, since I'm not going HP Fighting against it until it's under 65% or until I know the moveset. Kinda duh IMO. >.<
Dude. Ever heard of Lovely Kiss? Put Blissey to sleep, Calm Mind twice and Ice Beam is a 2HKO. Same for Snorlax. And no, Blissey can't Seismic Toss me while asleep.

Jynx can be faster than starting Salamences, so what? That still doesn't make it wise to switch it in. >.<
OMG, I JUST FOUND OUT THA BLISSEY GETS NATURAL CURE AND CAN SWITCH IF IT'S PUT TO SLEEP. They'll just bring something that will completely wall Jynx, unless you put Mean Look in there, trap Blissey on the switch and LK it, but it isn't that good.
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Old November 15th, 2005 (1:24 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pax Deorum
OMG, I JUST FOUND OUT THA BLISSEY GETS NATURAL CURE AND CAN SWITCH IF IT'S PUT TO SLEEP. They'll just bring something that will completely wall Jynx, unless you put Mean Look in there, trap Blissey on the switch and LK it, but it isn't that good.
But then again we're talking about 1 on 1, so shut up.
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Old November 15th, 2005 (1:26 PM).
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of course, let's forget about a whole team and try to win an argument using an example which isunlikely to happen
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Old November 15th, 2005 (3:40 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pax Deorum
of course, let's forget about a whole team and try to win an argument using an example which isunlikely to happen
It's not unlikely, it happens to me all the time.
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Old November 15th, 2005 (4:38 PM).
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hello? I can see no one is here, I wait intil someone shows up *starts to hum*
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Old November 15th, 2005 (5:42 PM).
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ftw? that was random. And btw, I dont remember Jynx CMing two times and OHKOing Bliss. As for snorlax, stalkerlax is getting quite popular.
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Old November 15th, 2005 (7:29 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UmbreonShadow
ftw? that was random. And btw, I dont remember Jynx CMing two times and OHKOing Bliss. As for snorlax, stalkerlax is getting quite popular.
If Raikou after 4-5 CMs can't take out Blissey, then Jynx can't CM twice to 2HKO Blis, you are right. And StalkerLax isn't as cool as
0malax but is getting used because of his status absorbing abilities, in fact, I'm having to use it on my team.

If you have to wait for an exact event in order to bring Arcanine in correctly against Bliss, then the set has already phailed. Imo, drop Arcanine (as cool as it is looks wise) and Jynx, and get yourself something different for those two sets, because those two are holding you back, imo.
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Old November 16th, 2005 (5:50 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UmbreonShadow
ftw? that was random. And btw, I dont remember Jynx CMing two times and OHKOing Bliss.
posting to reforce my argument
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Old November 16th, 2005 (8:18 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pax Deorum
posting to reforce my argument
Thats what I do Pax; I'm an Umbreon; I Support :D
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Old November 16th, 2005 (2:08 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrotechnix
If Raikou after 4-5 CMs can't take out Blissey, then Jynx can't CM twice to 2HKO Blis, you are right.
Actually, Jynx can. You guys talk a lot, but it's clear you don't speak from experience. Calm Mind twice, and againt most Blissey's it's a 2HKO, against Blissey's with not enough in defense (meaning more in special defense) it is about 45%.

And Raikou can't kill Blissey, because Blissey uses Softboiled. But Blissey won't use Softboiled against Jynx, because Blissey is asleep.
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Old November 16th, 2005 (6:24 PM).
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But Blissey won't be asleep because Blissey will switch out and Blissey will have Natural Cure.
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Old November 16th, 2005 (6:58 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trusty Arcanine


Actually, Jynx can. You guys talk a lot, but it's clear you don't speak from experience. Calm Mind twice, and againt most Blissey's it's a 2HKO, against Blissey's with not enough in defense (meaning more in special defense) it is about 45%.

And Raikou can't kill Blissey, because Blissey uses Softboiled. But Blissey won't use Softboiled against Jynx, because Blissey is asleep.
Ok, before I flame you endlessly..please do some damage calculations before you attempt to make yourself look smart. Here are the damage calculations for a 2 CM'd 252 SAtk Modest Jynx battling a 317 SDef Blissey, which is pretty near the standard:

Min: 235 Avg: 255 Max: 276

Standard Blissey HP spread is around 704, but you'll see less and more, but that's unimportant.

First turn:
Jynx has two Calm Minds down, we'll assume Blissey is asleep for your sake, and hasn't switched out to something that walls Jynx.
First hit: 255 damage average, dropping Bliss' HP to 449. Lefties Recovery takes it back up to around 485-490.
Second hit: 255 damage average, dropping Bliss' HP to 245. Lefties Recovery takes it back up to around 290.

Regardless of what Bliss' HP is, you won't score a 2HKO on it, and if it's over 700, you won't even score a 3HKO on it, or if you do, it's just barely. And if Bliss decided to pop awake after you CM'd twice, you're looking at pretty near death yourself.

Don't argue with me about damage calculations. I speak from experience, and put some of them to use for yourself. I use both the NB calculator and the trusty one at this link: http://marblepalace.net/gemmatics/damagecalc.shtml to figure stuff out.
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Old November 16th, 2005 (7:46 PM).
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Um Trusty Arcanine I think you need to stop and chill out. There really is no way a Jynx could 2HKO a Blissey with two CMs, no way in hell. Just remove it for a Physical attacker and your team will be fine.
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Old November 17th, 2005 (5:39 AM). Edited November 17th, 2005 by Synchronize.
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Arcanine, give up now, You're up against me, pyro, proph, and pax for the most part. You're also up against common sense and math calculations. The thing is, BLISSEY IS A SPECIAL WALL. It's not gonna get OHKOed by a special attack after 2 CMs, especially not from a UU pokemon.

And btw, I also want to point out that you say it'll do the same to Snorlax. YHALOTHAR THICK FAT. gfg
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Old November 17th, 2005 (11:30 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UmbreonShadow
Arcanine, give up now, You're up against me, pyro, proph, and pax for the most part. You're also up against common sense and math calculations. The thing is, BLISSEY IS A SPECIAL WALL. It's not gonna get OHKOed by a special attack after 2 CMs, especially not from a UU pokemon.

And btw, I also want to point out that you say it'll do the same to Snorlax. YHALOTHAR THICK FAT. gfg
This team did beat Pax Deorum, unless somebody stole his name.

And my Jynx has Psychic too.

Quote:
Um Trusty Arcanine I think you need to stop and chill out. There really is no way a Jynx could 2HKO a Blissey with two CMs, no way in hell. Just remove it for a Physical attacker and your team will be fine.

Quote:
Ok, before I flame you endlessly..please do some damage calculations before you attempt to make yourself look smart. Here are the damage calculations for a 2 CM'd 252 SAtk Modest Jynx battling a 317 SDef Blissey, which is pretty near the standard:

Min: 235 Avg: 255 Max: 276

Standard Blissey HP spread is around 704, but you'll see less and more, but that's unimportant.

First turn:
Jynx has two Calm Minds down, we'll assume Blissey is asleep for your sake, and hasn't switched out to something that walls Jynx.
First hit: 255 damage average, dropping Bliss' HP to 449. Lefties Recovery takes it back up to around 485-490.
Second hit: 255 damage average, dropping Bliss' HP to 245. Lefties Recovery takes it back up to around 290.

Regardless of what Bliss' HP is, you won't score a 2HKO on it, and if it's over 700, you won't even score a 3HKO on it, or if you do, it's just barely. And if Bliss decided to pop awake after you CM'd twice, you're looking at pretty near death yourself.

Don't argue with me about damage calculations. I speak from experience, and put some of them to use for yourself. I use both the NB calculator and the trusty one at this link: http://marblepalace.net/gemmatics/damagecalc.shtml to figure stuff out.
Okay, your calculations seem fair enough, maybe it was three Calm Minds.

Quote:
But Blissey won't be asleep because Blissey will switch out and Blissey will have Natural Cure.
Which will give me a free CM. And since Blissey has Natural Cure, I can put the outcoming mon to sleep too, which will force another switch, which gives me another free Calm Mind.
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Old November 17th, 2005 (11:45 AM).
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and then comes things like Snorlax who will easily rape you. Grumpig walls Jynx too, resisting both her STABs, along having that veru sexy Base Sp. Defence and Calm Mind
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Old November 17th, 2005 (12:40 PM).
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The Prophet of d00m!
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: In hell. No, really.
Gender:
Nature: Naughty
Posts: 23
Tee hee *sends out regice* whoo Psych Up, thanks for the CMs. You die now. Bye.

The point is, this team needs more physical sweeping goodness. A CBer would work well too, I think Medicham on this team would be sexy indeed.

In a nutshell:
Remove Jynx. Add a physical attacker.
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