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Old March 8th, 2006 (3:44 PM). Edited March 8th, 2006 by shanecdavis.
shanecdavis shanecdavis is offline
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I am currently breeding my BF team and I am wondering if I am going about this all wrong. While I am knowledgeable in the game mechanics and typing, my moveset/nature smarts does leave a lot to be desired. Here is what I have so far and what I am working towards. Any help is of course appreciated. Remember, this is strictly for BF, but help with changing things for semi-competitive battling would be nice too.

Crobat (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 SDef, 6 HP
IVs: 20, 30, 25, 10, 30, 25
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Aerial Ace
- Confuse Ray
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb

Comments: Not sure about the EVs so I haven't done those yet (on ANY of them). I was thinking CB + Atk EVs + Adamant would give Crobat a good strike first physical attacker. Maybe the SDef EVs are wasted and should be put into HP. HELP.

Skarmory (M) @ Quick Claw
Trait: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Speed, 6 HP
IVs: 30, 20, 25, 10, 25, 25
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Drill Peck
- Roar
- Spikes
- Toxic

Comments: This was a ***** to breed (took 7 generations), and now I am thinking my Nature is wrong. I am pushing to have a quick Skarm that can Roar out anything that it might be weak against and that can Spikes/Toxic the rest. I might be way off on this one.

Snorlax (?) @ Chesto Berry
Trait: Immunity
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 6 SDef
IVs: will work to get high HP, Att, Def, and SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Curse
- Rest
- Return
- Shadow Ball

Comments: Standard Curselax, but I am thinking about switching to Cursepert. Synchronize stated in one of my posts that Snorlax should be Careful instead of Adamant. Just more evidence that I am probably trying to fit square peg into round hole.

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Def, 252 SAtk, 6 Spd
IVs: will work to get high HP, Def, SAtk, SDef, and Spd)
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Softboiled
- Thunderbolt
- Water Pulse

Comments: Special Blissey. Went with Bold just to give it an extra Def boost, which seems to work quite well. Better IVs will even expound on that.

Metagross @ Shell Bell
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: No idea
IVs: As high as possible in all 6
Nature: No idea
- Brick Break/Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Psychic
- Toxic/Sludge Bomb/Shadow Ball/Rock Slide

Comments: Mixed Sweeper. Use BB since I am shooting for Lv50 Frontier first and it works great against TONS of Normal-types you find in Battle Tower early levels. Toxic due to it being a good disabler, but unsure about it and STAB Psychic.

Salamence @ Lum Berry
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: No idea
IVs: As high as possible in all 6
Nature: No idea
- Aerial Ace
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Flamethrower

Comments: Mixed Sweeper. This one I honestly am not so sure about. AA and DC strictly for STAB and a lack of anything more effective, I guess.

Some Pokes that I have sitting on the fence are Swampert (already mentioned), Starmie (instead of Crobat/Skarmory), Alakazam/Gardevoir (instead of Blissey), Magneton (good typing), or even Gengar/Dusclops or Tyranitar. Please help. Thanks.
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Old March 8th, 2006 (5:35 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shanecdavis
I am currently breeding my BF team and I am wondering if I am going about this all wrong. While I am knowledgeable in the game mechanics and typing, my moveset/nature smarts does leave a lot to be desired. Here is what I have so far and what I am working towards. Any help is of course appreciated. Remember, this is strictly for BF, but help with changing things for semi-competitive battling would be nice too.

Crobat (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 SDef, 6 HP
IVs: 20, 30, 25, 10, 30, 25
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Aerial Ace
- Confuse Ray
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb

Comments: Not sure about the EVs so I haven't done those yet (on ANY of them). I was thinking CB + Atk EVs + Adamant would give Crobat a good strike first physical attacker. Maybe the SDef EVs are wasted and should be put into HP. HELP.

Skarmory (M) @ Quick Claw
Trait: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Speed, 6 HP
IVs: 30, 20, 25, 10, 25, 25
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Drill Peck
- Roar
- Spikes
- Toxic

Comments: This was a ***** to breed (took 7 generations), and now I am thinking my Nature is wrong. I am pushing to have a quick Skarm that can Roar out anything that it might be weak against and that can Spikes/Toxic the rest. I might be way off on this one.

Snorlax (?) @ Chesto Berry
Trait: Immunity
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 6 SDef
IVs: will work to get high HP, Att, Def, and SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Curse
- Rest
- Return
- Shadow Ball

Comments: Standard Curselax, but I am thinking about switching to Cursepert. Synchronize stated in one of my posts that Snorlax should be Careful instead of Adamant. Just more evidence that I am probably trying to fit square peg into round hole.

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Def, 252 SAtk, 6 Spd
IVs: will work to get high HP, Def, SAtk, SDef, and Spd)
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Softboiled
- Thunderbolt
- Water Pulse

Comments: Special Blissey. Went with Bold just to give it an extra Def boost, which seems to work quite well. Better IVs will even expound on that.

Metagross @ Shell Bell
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: No idea
IVs: As high as possible in all 6
Nature: No idea
- Brick Break/Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Psychic
- Toxic/Sludge Bomb/Shadow Ball/Rock Slide

Comments: Mixed Sweeper. Use BB since I am shooting for Lv50 Frontier first and it works great against TONS of Normal-types you find in Battle Tower early levels. Toxic due to it being a good disabler, but unsure about it and STAB Psychic.

Salamence @ Lum Berry
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: No idea
IVs: As high as possible in all 6
Nature: No idea
- Aerial Ace
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Flamethrower

Comments: Mixed Sweeper. This one I honestly am not so sure about. AA and DC strictly for STAB and a lack of anything more effective, I guess.

Some Pokes that I have sitting on the fence are Swampert (already mentioned), Starmie (instead of Crobat/Skarmory), Alakazam/Gardevoir (instead of Blissey), Magneton (good typing), or even Gengar/Dusclops or Tyranitar. Please help. Thanks.
Yea! Everyone loves Shadow Ball on Crobat! Including me! I give this thread an 8! Don't get rid of Crobat, then I will give it an 6< So Noooooooo!
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Old March 8th, 2006 (5:51 PM).
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Hey, shane, nice to see you posting in the Movesets forum.

One thing you should stay away from is using all 252/252/6 EV spreads. Choice Banders can use that set, frail Pokemon like Alakazam and Houndoom can use it too. But more defensive Pokemon like Snorlax and Metagross should have EVs in multiple stats, concentrating in one or two but not maxing them out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shanecdavis

Crobat (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 SDef, 6 HP
IVs: 20, 30, 25, 10, 30, 25
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Aerial Ace
- Steel Wing
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb

Crobat's biggest asset is it's Speed so move all those SDef EVs into Spd because it needs to outrun as many opponents as it can. Nature could also be Jolly. SDef shouldn't matter, it's not meant to survive special attacks, especially since its weak against three of the most common special types. Also, Steel Wing over C-Ray for when you have no choice but to fight those Rock-types.

Skarmory (M) @ Quick Claw
Trait: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Speed, 6 HP
IVs: 30, 20, 25, 10, 25, 25
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Drill Peck
- Roar
- Spikes
- Rest

Yeah, bad nature, but it could be worse. Skarmory works best with Impish. Also bad EV spread - this Skarm definitely won't be able to defend very well. Max out HP and put plenty of EVs into Defense. Keep some leftover to add to Attack. No more than 60 though, Skarm isn't meant to sweep. Also suggesting Rest over Toxic to last longer.

Snorlax (?) @ Chesto Berry
Trait: Immunity
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 6 SDef
IVs: will work to get high HP, Att, Def, and SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Curse
- Rest
- Return
- Shadow Ball

Snorlax can be both Careful or Adamant. If Adamant, you just need a lot more SDef EVs. Snorlax does not need max Def at all, especially since you have Curse. So put like 176-200 EVs into SDef for good measure, add about 60-100 in Def, 100-140 in Attack, and put the rest into HP. Also, Thick Fat works better for defending against Fire/Ice attacks, besides, you have Rest to heal Poisoning.

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Def, 252 SAtk, 6 Spd
IVs: will work to get high HP, Def, SAtk, SDef, and Spd)
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Softboiled
- Thunderbolt
- Aromatherapy

As with Skarmory, Blissey is a Pokemon that should not have Max EVs in any attack stat. You have the right idea with max Defense. 100-136 should do for Sp. Attack, any more is overkill. Put plenty the rest into HP. Also, Water Pulse isn't needed because the BoltBeam combo covers every type of Pokemon out there (except for Magneton and Lanturn, but neither can do a thing to Bliss). So replace the Water attack with the useful Aromatherapy.

Metagross @ Shell Bell
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: No idea
IVs: As high as possible in all 6
Nature: No idea
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Psychic/Agility/Explosion
- Shadow Ball

Meteor Mash please. Metagross without its best move is a sad Metagross. Besides, with STAB, Meteor Mash does the same damage as a supereffective Brick Break, plus MM can raise your Attack. Your fourth move can vary depending on what you have trouble with. I'd say Shadow Ball cause Gengar gives you major problems if its the SubPunching version. Also, give it a Brave nature, max out its Attack, put plenty in Defense, and shove the rest into Sp. Attack and/or HP (you won't be needing to Psychic too often, only against Weezing really). If Psychic proves really useless, get rid of it and stick in Agility or Explosion, and make it Adamant.

Salamence @ Lum Berry
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: No idea
IVs: As high as possible in all 6
Nature: No idea
- Aerial Ace
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Flamethrower/Rock Slide

I'd say Dragon Dance, because after a couple of those, Salamence can totally sweep teams. Watch out for things like Zapdos and Aerodactyl, who resist your physical attacks and won't die anytime soon to Flamethrower. Consider Rock Slide if you're not afraid of Skarm/Forretress. Also, nature should be Adamant (yes, Mence can still destroy Skarm/Forry with a -Sp. Attack). Max out Attack, put a lot into Speed but no need for max since you're Dragon Dancing. Stick the rest into HP.

It’s a very solid team, just some problems with Natures and EVs. Also having Snorlax and Blissey on the same team is redundant. Not only are they both Special Walls, but it increases your weakness against Fighting (and Skarm won’t help you against something like CB Heracross’s Focus Punch). I like Snorlax better since it can attack and is nearly indefeatable with a couple of Curses (unless the opponent has Gengar). Put in a better special sweeper in place of Bliss – Your Alazakam/Gengar in mind works well.

Also, I’m not a big fan of Crobat on a standard team like this. Aerodactyl works better as a Choice Bander and can handle more types, plus has more Attack.
(also i'm pretty sure you know that tory is no help at all ;D)

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Old March 9th, 2006 (9:09 AM). Edited March 9th, 2006 by shanecdavis.
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Thanks a lot, aragorn, your suggestions are much appreciated. I was leaning towards Gengar over Blissey and your comments pushed me over. I like Gengar over Alakazam mostly because it resists nasty things like Counter and SToss. I don't know why I never thought of Aerodactyl over Crobat either. I have always loved that batty guy since the Metal days. Here are the changes I am planning to make, along with some thoughts on Gengar and Aerodactyl:

Aerodactyl (?) @ Choice Band
Trait: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spd, 6 HP
IVs: focus on high HP, Atk, Def, SDef, and Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Aerial Ace
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide

Comments: I will go with AA unless I can get somehow get a decent HP Flying. Although I might scrap that whole idea and go with Substitute. DE w/ RH is just plain arse, especially with CB. Don't know how I overlooked this guy. One thing I am still not sure about is the Nature. Jolly or Adamant?


Skarmory (?) @ Quick Claw
Trait: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP, 192 Def, 60 HP
IVs: focus on high HP, Atk, Def, SDef, and Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Drill Peck
- Rest
- Roar
- Spikes

Comments: Well, gotta start over breeding again. Oh well. At least now I know. Not sure I want to keep QC as the item, but Snorlax will have Chesto and Salamence gets Lum.

Snorlax (?) @ Chesto Berry
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 176 SDef, 140 Atk, 100 Def, 94 HP
IVs: focus on high HP, Att, Def, and SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Curse
- Rest
- Return
- Shadow Ball

Comments: I prefer Immunity, but I will give Thick Fat a try. I also prefer Adamant over Careful since sometimes just a "quick" attack (believe me, the irony of that statement is not lost on me) without going through a Curse boost is all that is required. That is why I had Atk maxed (instead of the Def, which I typed erroneously) as well.

Gengar (?) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 SAtk, 200 Spd, 58 Atk
IVs: focus on high stats for all 6
Mild Nature (+SAtk, -Def)
- Focus Punch
- Ice Punch
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt

Comments: Way more effective BoltBeamer than Bliss, and Sub and its Spd make up for its fraility. Just not sure about the last move. SB and SB (LOL) are STAB, but FP is more powerful. Not sure about the EVs either. Maybe I should have Atk in there somewhere.


Metagross @ Shell Bell
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk, 140 Def, 118 HP
IVs: As high as possible in all 6
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball

Comments: I plan to keep Psychic since in BF, it will be more useful. The STAB attack alone is pretty nice. Also, thinking about switching Shell Bell with Gengar's Leftovers.

Salamence (?) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk, 140 Spd, 60 Def, 58 HP
IVs: As high as possible in all 6
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Aerial Ace
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Flamethrower

Comments: I am going to go with FT over RT, unless I can breed chain RT from Aerodactyl to Bagon. I will have to research that. Plus, in BT I have found FT to be pretty valuable.


Looking over my updated team, I think things are looking pretty good. Thanks again for your help and if you see anything else with the additions that I have included, PLEASE don't hesitate to let me know.
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Old March 9th, 2006 (11:38 AM).
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I'd say take some HP off that Salamence, and put a little into defense.
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Old March 9th, 2006 (11:54 AM).
shanecdavis shanecdavis is offline
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Okay, I split the HP points and gave 60 to Def. Do you have any suggestions on Aerodactyl or Gengar? I simply cannot decide between Shadow Ball and Sludge Bomb.
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Old March 9th, 2006 (12:25 PM).
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It’s looking a lot better. Just a few comments on Gengar and Aerodactyl:

*Jolly is the preferred nature for Aerodactyl. Like Crobat, Aero’s advantage is being able to come in on just about any opponent, secure with the knowledge that it will be able to outspeed it.

*Gengar’s EVs need working. It’s not meant to defend against anything, it’s meant to switch in on Normal/Ground/Fighting attacks then use its great speed and Sp. attack to sweep. For special Gengar, I usually just Max Sp. Attack and put in around 188-200 depending on how good your Speed IV is.
For an attack choice, I’d go with either Shadow Ball or Focus Punch. Almost your entire team resists Grass so Sludge Bomb isn’t necessary. Gengar with physical attacks can be Naughty, Lonely, Rash, or Rash.

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Old March 9th, 2006 (12:41 PM). Edited March 9th, 2006 by shanecdavis.
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Thanks once again for the info. I thought about not putting any EVs into the defenses of Gengar, but I have this nasty habit of trying to cover the weaknesses instead of playing up the strengths. Here (hopefully) are my final changes:

Aerodactyl (?) @ Choice Band
Trait: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spd, 6 HP
IVs: focus on high HP, Atk, Def, SDef, and Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Aerial Ace
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide

Gengar (?) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 SAtk, 200 Spd, 58 Atk
IVs: focus on high stats for all 6
Mild Nature (+SAtk, -Def)
- Focus Punch
- Ice Punch
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt

I just noticed that Gengar doesn't learn Ice Beam, so I switched to Ice Punch and Focus Punch.
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Old March 9th, 2006 (1:16 PM).
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All right, I think your team is good enough to get rolling.
I guess I’ll try to see if there’s any one Pokemon your team can’t handle well. Hmmm…well, Swampert might give you some problems. It has good enough Defense to resist physical hits, Skarm can’t block it because of Surf, Ice Beam screws over two of your Pokemon, and Earthquake takes down the rest. Oh yeah, and the leader of the Battle Arena has a Swampert. =O
Your best bet to handle Swampert without replacing any Pokemon is to give Gengar Giga Drain over one of its attacks. I’d probably go with Ice Punch. Aerodactyl handles Dragons with Flamethrower and Skarm handles Dragons with Rock Slide.

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Old March 9th, 2006 (1:59 PM).
shanecdavis shanecdavis is offline
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Yikes, didn't think about Swampy and my oldest son LOVES it. So I can replace IP with GD on Gengar and Rest with RS on Skarmory, but I am lost about FT on Aerodactyl. How is a Fire-type move effective against Dragon-types?
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Old March 9th, 2006 (2:04 PM).
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Well, dragons resist Fire so not very effective. But you have STAB CB Rock Slide against Salamence and Dragonite, plus you are faster. Flygon might be a problem, you could always Double-Edge.

EDIT: Oh, you got confused. When I said "Aerodactyl handles Dragons with Flamethrower and Skarm handles Dragons with Rock Slide", I meant if the it has Flamethrower, switch to Aerodactyl and if it has Rock Slide, switch to Skarmory.

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Old March 9th, 2006 (2:34 PM). Edited March 9th, 2006 by shanecdavis.
shanecdavis shanecdavis is offline
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Oh hell. Yeah, I did read that wrong. Makes perfect sense now. LOL

BTW - Since Gengar will now have GD, I am thinking of switching Leftovers to Metagross and Shell Bell to Gengar.
 

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