soo... are you sure the legendary pokemon are gods (spoilers) Page 2

Started by weedle_mchairybug November 7th, 2006 5:10 AM
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Seen April 8th, 2015
Posted July 8th, 2012
2,005 posts
18.7 Years
Another thing you need to remember. Mythology or not, D&D or not, yes or not, ALL Gods will tell you that they are invincible, even when they aren't.
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Life Is All About Variety!

Seen February 26th, 2007
Posted January 4th, 2007
32 posts
16.5 Years
Honestly this arguement has been going on for (p)ages!

Aruseus is the only PokeGod.
THIS IS POKEMON, NOT REAL LIFE!

Pokemon is just like another videogame.
Legendary Pokemon, hard to see, hard to catch, Uber Stats...

ARE ONE OF A KIND! The Anime once had a baby Lugia, maybe there are not really.

In a general sense, speaking for the Pokemon Anime, and also the games, they are not one of a kind.
Regarding to a general sense, if in the game, the player got 2 of the same Legendaries, by trade/cheating, the game doesn't restrict more then 1. Maybe it was not programmed, or they really allowed it.

Legendary Pokemon, with No Egg Groups or Gender, may be considered 1 of a kind per game. That is a better sense of putting it.
*Other common genderless Pokemon, like Beldum, Magemite they have a Gender Unknown, or Nuetral egg... They can be breeded...


Speaking on the context of Pokemon Gods...
Aruseus may be the only one, if the game says so, then I said so...
Nothing else to put it the anime and game are the masters what of happens every episode.
Please stop argueing!

Life is Full Of Variety! Take An Eevee For Example:
Seen April 8th, 2015
Posted July 8th, 2012
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Honestly this arguement has been going on for (p)ages!

Aruseus is the only PokeGod.
THIS IS POKEMON, NOT REAL LIFE!
D&D isn't real life either, and it has Gods. Why is it that people think that everything that is fantasy can't have Gods or God-like beings?

Now why did I bring up D&D? Well, that I CAN answer. See, Pokemon has more in common with D&D than it does with ANY OTHER FRANCHISE!!! Even Dragon Quest! Here's a small list of a few.

- Both Pokemon and D&D have God-like beings. They're called Gods in D&D and Legendary Pokemon in... Pokemon. I don't know if they'd be considered Gods, but they're definitely comparable.

- Both Pokemon and D&D have magical artifacts.

- The premise of the two is practically identical. A hero, or party of heroes, goes out adventuring into a fantasy world full of monsters, treasure, and magic.

- There's death in both Pokemon and D&D.

- Three words: MewTwo and Drizzt. This one shouldn't need any explanation.

Yes, there's more than that. If you want a complete list, you can probably find it on a Wizards of the Coast site.
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Seen March 20th, 2016
Posted January 22nd, 2010
1,823 posts
16.6 Years
Umm... D&D and Pokemon? Alike? Jeez, you're way out of genre.

Some noticeable differences:

In Pokemon, death is mentioned only in context of the Pokemon Tower or Mt. Pyre- your character or Pokemon never experiences death. In D&D, you are in constant danger of some big, nasty thing with sharp teeth ripping your head off.

The only magical artifacts in Pokemon are the beggining flute, red chain, and red/blue orb. Nothing else that is remotely magical exists. There is a much higher profiliation of magical artifacts in D&D.

The Legendaries are not Gods, period. They are Ubers. I don't see a god getting caught by a kid in the games, and thinking about it, even in mythology gods cannot be rivaled by anything but another god, or at the very least a powerful demi-god. In Pokemon, on the other hand, humans have been able to take down certain legendaries with little to no effort.

By the way, in reference to Pokemon "Claims of Divinity"... there are none made in the anime. Ho-oh's connection to Entei, Raikou, and Suicune only exists in the games and manga for example, and Kyogre and Groudon are never named as creators of the land and sea in the anime. They are bascially treated as powerful, ancient Pokemon. (Come to think of it, I don't even remember a single anime Pokemon as being reffered to as a legendary, let alone a god.) That's another thing too- are the legendary Pokemon ever referred to as gods, except in myths? Answer that, please!

Sorry for my abscence from this thread, I completely forgot about it between school, the latest Naruto episode, and my fanfic.

x x x x

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..

Seen August 11th, 2009
Posted August 11th, 2009
4,227 posts
18.2 Years
By the way, in reference to Pokemon "Claims of Divinity"... there are none made in the anime. Ho-oh's connection to Entei, Raikou, and Suicune only exists in the games and manga for example, and Kyogre and Groudon are never named as creators of the land and sea in the anime. They are bascially treated as powerful, ancient Pokemon. (Come to think of it, I don't even remember a single anime Pokemon as being reffered to as a legendary, let alone a god.)
WRONG.

YES THEY DID. Ho-oh's connection to the Dogs WAS mentioned, for instance in the episode with Eusine, where Morty (or someone--I'm pretty sure it was Morty, though) commented that the Dogs were Ho-oh's messengers and were sent to watch humanity (Morty even made a comment about how Ho-oh was probably watching them at the time and how he wondered what Ho-oh was thinking). And they DID mention Kyogre & Groudon creating the sea and land. And a LOT of them have been referred to as Legendary (in fact, pretty much ALL of them).

...Have you really watched all the episodes or did you just catch them once in a while? Because if you didn't watch them all, then you might not want to make absolute statements (always, never, etc).
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In a House
Seen March 20th, 2016
Posted January 22nd, 2010
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16.6 Years
...Have you really watched all the episodes or did you just catch them once in a while? Because if you didn't watch them all, then you might not want to make absolute statements (always, never, etc).
Le Gasp... you have found me out. I don't remember Groudon/Kyogre being named as land/sea creators, and I saw most of the Advanced Generation episodes, but I don't remember that particular one. I must have stopped watching for a while then... I only remember the Kyogre/Groudon fight. Speaking of which, as I recall Team Aqua and Team Magma captured Groudon and Kyogre for a while- they were unable to control either Pokemon, but both were still caught. I still don't remember the word legendary being applied to anything but the birds, and I'm leaving them out of the discussion. So yeah, I'm suitably chastised, but I still don't think the legendary Pokemon were meant to be viewed as gods- they seem more like forces of nature to me.

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Seen April 15th, 2007
Posted February 17th, 2007
128 posts
16.6 Years
are now there aguments . .
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Seen April 8th, 2015
Posted July 8th, 2012
2,005 posts
18.7 Years
Umm... D&D and Pokemon? Alike? Jeez, you're way out of genre.

Some noticeable differences:

In Pokemon, death is mentioned only in context of the Pokemon Tower or Mt. Pyre- your character or Pokemon never experiences death. In D&D, you are in constant danger of some big, nasty thing with sharp teeth ripping your head off.

The only magical artifacts in Pokemon are the beggining flute, red chain, and red/blue orb. Nothing else that is remotely magical exists. There is a much higher profiliation of magical artifacts in D&D.

The Legendaries are not Gods, period. They are Ubers. I don't see a god getting caught by a kid in the games, and thinking about it, even in mythology gods cannot be rivaled by anything but another god, or at the very least a powerful demi-god. In Pokemon, on the other hand, humans have been able to take down certain legendaries with little to no effort.

By the way, in reference to Pokemon "Claims of Divinity"... there are none made in the anime. Ho-oh's connection to Entei, Raikou, and Suicune only exists in the games and manga for example, and Kyogre and Groudon are never named as creators of the land and sea in the anime. They are bascially treated as powerful, ancient Pokemon. (Come to think of it, I don't even remember a single anime Pokemon as being reffered to as a legendary, let alone a god.) That's another thing too- are the legendary Pokemon ever referred to as gods, except in myths? Answer that, please!

Sorry for my abscence from this thread, I completely forgot about it between school, the latest Naruto episode, and my fanfic.
Wait, are we talking about the games, or Anime?

See, there's death in both, but in the Anime, it's simply called 'leaving the world'. Also, yes, we know it's impossible to 'die' in the games, but I guarantee that if a Trainer took enough hits in the Anime, they'd eventually keel over.

Magical artifacts we've seen: Flute, Chain, Dragon Fang (or something along those lines), all those stones (almost two dozen now), the two orbs, three other orbs from the second movie, another orb in Movie 5, GS Ball (maybe), and probably several others I'm forgetting about. And yes, I understand that some of these are only Magical Items, and not Artifacts. Point is, in one's lifetime, they're not supposed to realistically see EVERY magical artifact there is (that applies to both Pokemon AND D&D). Otherwise, I'm sure the world would've been destroyed several times over already.

The Legendaries may or may not be Gods in the Anime (there is no definitive evidence to point either way). In the game, they're just regular Pokemon, since they can be beaten just like any other opponent. But remember, game mechanics don't necessarily work the same way in 'real life' (otherwise, Aeris would have been revived with a Phoenix Down). In the Anime, it usually takes either a Legendary, or some sort of major WOMD or magical item to take down another Legendary. There has never been an exception to this rule. The Gods can also be defeated in D&D (we've beaten a few of them ourselves).

Remember also that not every Legendary Pokemon is considered to be on that 'god-like' level. There's main Legendaries and also sub-Legendaries. They aren't identified as such, but the difference in power is obvious. For instance, Charizard could take out Articuno in the Battle Frontier, but he'd never stand a whim of a chance against the one from the second movie, who could control the winter weather.

Games = More Like Dragon Quest
Anime = More Like D&D
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Seen January 21st, 2007
Posted January 19th, 2007
207 posts
18.3 Years
I believe that in many refrences, some Pokemon have been portrayed as a god-like figure. Honestly, if you look at Ho-oh, for example, it is somewhat portrayed as godlike. I think the argument that they can be caputured in games, may simply be because of public interest in capturing. People would be frustrated to know that there's a new Pokemon that is impossible to catch. ;)

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Nyah, how dare you people get in an argument about legendaries without inviting me? xO

The way I see it, this discussion seems to be a bit too focused on arguing divinity in christian terms. This is a bit of an odd choice, seeing as how there are multiple pokémon with divine attributes ascribed to them (I.e. Polytheism) whereas christianity is a monotheistic religion. There are also plenty of older religions where even gods aren't defined as perfect and all-powerful beings (E.g. the gods in Greek or even Viking mythology certainly all possessed very human flaws such as anger and envy) and where there are different leves of divinity (Higher and lesser deities, demigods etc.) which, I believe, is the case with the legendaries. Also, I swear that there are cases of demigods and even mortals overthrowing lesser deities, just can't recall the specifics at the moment. >.<

It's true that not all legendaries amount to this (The Regis and Mewtwo are man-made, so obviously they're to be excluded, and the Latis are actually just very rare herd pokémon (As can be seen in the pokédex data) so they aren't really divine in their own right either...except if they're like the pokémon world substitute of angels, but that's a pretty shaky analogy. xP), but others have very sound claims for divinity (E.g. Kyogre and Groudon being able to shape the face of the earth at will or Celebi being able to move in time and bring renewed life to plants (Again, see pokédex)) so arguing that they aren't divine because they aren't omnipotent like the christian God is just narrow-minded, imo.

Divinity in pokémon would simply have a system of divided power (As with polytheistic religions or DnD if you want to go there) as opposed to one deity being all powerful. Some pokémon also have claims for position as lesser deities or mythological figures such as Moltres being a bringer of spring or Articuno acting like a reaper for lost wanderers (Again, see pokédex for both). Arguments like 'it was defeated in the anime'...let's not even go there, the anime has been the host of some incredibly stupid things with the current writing team in charge. <.<

As for the worship thing: there's actually a shrine dedicated to Celebi in the G/S/C games, which implies at least some kind of worship. Also, the legendary birds were refered to as gods in the whole 'disturb not the balance' thing in The Power of One. Again, proof that they at least used to be revered as gods. Oh, and concerning the 'it's just a legend' thing...isn't believeing in things that can't be proven part of what religion is about as well? Let's not be hypocritical here, a legendary-based religion would be just as valid as any of the ones in the real world (In fact, it would perhaps be a bit more valid as the legendaries actually have been sighted in more recent times and actually exist in the same world as the worshipers).

So in short, there's plenty of evidence to support the treatment of certain legendaries as divine beings, even though this matter has been largely avoided in the anime and manga, no doubt in an attempt to appease the more devotedly religious populace.
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That, it seems to me, is an over-generalization. Can you imagine anyone worhsiping something man-made and weak like a Beldum? And how about the dirt-common ones like Caterpie, Weedle, Rattata, Pidgey etc.? Unless you're going with some kind of nature spirit religion (In which the divine is believed to exist in all living beings) then arguing that every pokémon could be worshiped isn't really that credible. xP
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Seen December 2nd, 2013
Posted February 16th, 2011
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14.7 Years
This is one of the few instances where the anime takes a drastically different approach. "Legendary Pokemon" become overpowered, and if they are "used" by a trainer, it's usually a mutual agreenment rather than a clear capture. They're often shown as having some sort of control over the Earth or nature itself, and need to be free to keep that control (Movie 2).

But just because they're powerful does not mean they are God, a god, divine, a deity, etc... regardless of what religion(s) you're using as a basis for a god. They're seen in the anime much as ancient cultures in the real world saw some animals: Ancient cultures worshiped them but modern culture know they're just Pokemon, albeit really powerful with an extent of control over elements.

And there's a difference between a powerful attack and control over elements. A powerful attack is just something that's more than it normally is. It's still confined to where the battle is happening. Just like when "Earthquake" is used but the city doesn't collapse.

But a legendary Pokemon has more power than just an attack. It can control the rain or snow or fire or whatever more than a pokemon using the elements to attack.

In the games, all "Legendary Pokemon" means is "A Pokemon deemed Legendary by Gamefreak." There's no basis that legendary=powerful because flat out, some are quite bad in battles. Many aren't, but some, particularly a few of the birds and the dog trio. Other "rules" such as gender, ability to breed, one-time capture have also been thrown out in subsequent generations.

It's also worth studying Japanese culture and the religions it follows. Christianity and other western religions like Islam and Judaism are the EXTREME minority. I'd be surprised if Gamefreak even employs a single Christian. But parallels between legends and the religion of Shinto could certainly be made.