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Old April 3rd, 2007 (8:56 AM).
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Discuss the effectiveness of Cursepert. I must get alternate points of view on this matter.
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Old April 3rd, 2007 (9:26 AM).
White Lotus White Lotus is offline
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First off let me say BRAVO.

So changing the tenor of this forum begins...

3rd Generation View: Cursepert made for a very effective Last Man Standing. If you designed a team to take out all the pokes who utilized (Grass) moves you could set up a late game pwning and the best part is the opponent thinks he's got the upper hand until Swampert hits the field and the opponent realizes crap he took out my counters. Be wary of *HP(Grass) as this could really crap in your cheerios.

Final Analysis :Cursepert > Mixpert

4th Generation View: Cursepert doesn't work as well in the new generation because *Rest doesn't work nearly as well with all the offensive fire power. He still can make an effective Bulky Water with his immunity to (Electric) but isn't the same late game threat he used to be. Take into account that *Energy Ball to a lesser extent and *Grass Knot which might as well be called 'Death to Swampert' are now widely available in TM form and he has a problem setting up. I find this ironic considering he now has physical (Water) / (Ice) moves at his disposal.

He did get new toys to play with in the form *Stealth Rock which is great for team support. But in general i see Swampert's role in the new generation being that of a Great Bulky Water type and being most effective in Mixpert form.

Final Analysis: Mixpert > Cursepert
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Old April 3rd, 2007 (9:34 AM).
DDBoahTar DDBoahTar is offline
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Lotus pretty much summed it up....
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Old April 3rd, 2007 (9:38 AM).
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Meh, disagreeing with the 3rd generation role. I've honestly never had trouble dealing with Cursepert, even with teams that were technically weak against Pert. With only one stage of Atk gained at a time and the rather narrow physical arsenal (Typically we're looking at EQ and HP [Bug] or Rock Slide) it's not at all difficult for a phazer to switch in and just get rid of Pert without any larger problems. Also, as you mentioned, Grass moves are all over the place and just really screw this build over. Meh, maybe it's just me but I've always found that Cursepert just doesn't set up fast enough and lacks the contra-phazer abilities to stay in. I prefer it as a wall to soak up stray rock and electric attacks and scare off Mence, Aero and their little friends. Roar is a regular choice for me (And has served me well thus far) but I've also seen Endeavor wreak havoc on unsuspecting teams (Works quite well with 101 HP subs). It's darn tricky to use, though. Just my views, though. ^^ Also, agreed about 4th generation Pert. With Life Orbed Dragon Claws ripping up 50+% of Pert's HP in one go, it's just not what it used to be. Also, Grass Knot is a death sentence since its damage is weight-based. Pert definitely doesn't like to sit around for long in this environment. .___.
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Old April 3rd, 2007 (9:42 AM).
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Well, in relation to the 3rd gen, here's the run down:

- Curse
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam / Rock Slide
- Rest

Of course, you can set up late game, as White Lotus said, but considering Swampert is used to try and Counter both Tyranitar and Salamence, that's most likely not going to happen with it fielding hits all day. Plus, Snorlax does it better with a higher SDef stat.

But let's say it were able to set up during the early parts of the game, and it has Ice Beam. Even on predicting a Zapdos or Celebi switch in, they'll only be 3HKOd and 4HKOd, respectively, during this time period, Zapdos will 1-2HKO with HP Grass, and Celebi could either Calm Mind or Recover the damage easily. Granted, you could switch as well, but that's not the point. The point is, you're being forced to switch too easily.

You could use Rock Slide to do about 60% damage to Zapdos after a Curse, but you'd have to be Cursing while it switches in, in which case, if will have HP Grassed you for a good deal of damage. You also would be easier walled by Claydol and Flygon, and Salamence wouldn't succumb to a OHKO anymore, meaning the next time it switches in, it's more liable to keep attacking Swampert before it sets up a Curse.

The only real use I've seen for Cursepert is lategame against lingering Special Walls, since a regular Pert handles the same tasks with the standard Quakebeam combo.

Counter and Sleep Talk are by far the most useful options I've seen on a Swampert, tbh. But I'd like to hear ideas on what could REALLY support Cursepert (Don't say Celebi to resist Zapdos) in setting up, becuase I feel like I'm missing something here.
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Old April 3rd, 2007 (10:02 AM).
White Lotus White Lotus is offline
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Well Regice deals with both Zapdos / Celebi pretty well but i've never considered him Swampert support persay.

Quote:
Alter Ego wrote:

Roar is a regular choice for me (And has served me well thus far) but I've also seen Endeavor wreak havoc on unsuspecting teams (Works quite well with 101 HP subs). It's darn tricky to use, though. Just my views, though.
I would love to see a set utilize *Endeavor. I'm always looking for a way to use it but always fall a little short of being truly effective. I always thought only speedy types could utilize *Endeavor and i'm a little embarrassed i didn't think of pairing it with *Substitute.
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Old April 4th, 2007 (12:31 AM).
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*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Quote:
Originally Posted by White Lotus View Post
I would love to see a set utilize *Endeavor. I'm always looking for a way to use it but always fall a little short of being truly effective. I always thought only speedy types could utilize *Endeavor and i'm a little embarrassed i didn't think of pairing it with *Substitute.

You should dig up a post from killerduck of Smogon.

Swampert @ Salac Berry
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Endeavor
- Endure
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam

Lead with Tyranitar to get a Sandstorm going. When you've got this Swampert fully set up at 1 HP, it can reach 360 Speed after the Salac boost. Endeavor anything that isn't immune to Sandstorm and it will die. You'll get killed too, but it guarantees eliminating at least one opponent. Blast any Ground/Rocks with special attacks of course. Torrent + Hydro Pump is lovely.


*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
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Old April 4th, 2007 (8:05 AM).
White Lotus White Lotus is offline
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Quote:
AragornBird wrote:

Swampert @ Salac Berry
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Endeavor
- Endure
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam

Lead with Tyranitar to get a Sandstorm going. When you've got this Swampert fully set up at 1 HP, it can reach 360 Speed after the Salac boost. Endeavor anything that isn't immune to Sandstorm and it will die. You'll get killed too, but it guarantees eliminating at least one opponent. Blast any Ground/Rocks with special attacks of course. Torrent + Hydro Pump is lovely.
Thanks Aragornbird.

I've never seen that set before. It's very interesting. Assassin Swampert. Guaranteed to take out pokes who don't have (Ground) / (Rock) / (Steel) typings. Speed Priority is still a problem but it always will be for *Endure pokes.

This also reminds me that good support for Swampert is obviously Tyranitar / Hippowdon because 'Sandstream' is a + for him. Especially versions carrying *Protect for scouting purposes - It lets him get in extra Leftovers recovery while hurting the other guy as well.
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Old April 5th, 2007 (3:13 AM).
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I've never seen the usefulness of Cursepert. It's incredibly slow to set up and is easy to switch in on and (p)haze when it's Resting away the damage it took while Cursing. Cursepert is also yelling out: 'Hi Weezing, Zappy and Celebi, come rape me!' Reflect Starmie loves Pert as long as it doesn't have too many Curses up aswell.

I usually either use Counter- or Roarpert, but for my Sandstorm abuse team I used

Swampert (M) @ Leftovers ** Youcheat&Ihax=)
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 68 Atk / 40 Def / 120 Spd / 28 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Endeavor
- Ice Beam
- Substitute

I love this thing. <3 I forgot what the speed EVs were for, though. I better revice those EVs. The set requires alot of predicting, but it has served my team quite well. Seismic Toss-proof Subs are uber cool, too.

Quote:
This also reminds me that good support for Swampert is obviously Tyranitar / Hippowdon because 'Sandstream' is a + for him. Especially versions carrying *Protect for scouting purposes - It lets him get in extra Leftovers recovery while hurting the other guy as well.
The problem with Protect is that it gives anyone who can predict a Protect from your Pert a free chance to switch in a Pert counter and when Pert switches out, predicting the switch and possibly dealing a buttload of damage to your switch-in, too. Protectpert does work better with Sandstorm teams in the 4th generation than it did in the 3rd one because alot more stuff is carrying something else than Lefties. I personally don't like Protect on Pert, though, but maybe it's just me.
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Old April 5th, 2007 (8:17 AM).
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I can't say that Protect hasn't been invaluable to me. As long as you don't whore it, you can use it to set up a nasty Counter or prevent taking damage from Metagross Explosion. It's surprising how many people forget that Swampert use Protect.
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Old April 5th, 2007 (11:27 AM).
Melody Melody is offline
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Heres a Move set that might bring Swampert into the 4th generation

Swampert- Mystic Water
Surf-STAB+^
Blizzard-Grass Killer
Earthquake-STAB
Return-This slot is flexible Any suggestions?
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Old April 5th, 2007 (11:52 AM).
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Please stay out of my threads, sir.
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Old April 5th, 2007 (11:52 AM).
White Lotus White Lotus is offline
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Quote:
poketrainer2004 wrote:

Any suggestions?
Never use the +10% items like Mystic Water.

Especially on Swampert who - if left to his own devices - would be dry humping Leftovers.

I prefer *Ice Beam > *Blizzard because what you need (Ice) attacks for are 4x weak against (Ice). *Blizzard is good on teams with Abomasnow because during *Hail it's accuracy is 100%.

But in general *Ice Beam at 95 Power is more than enough to take out the threats.

As for the last moveslot - read the previous posts and see how many different suggestions there have been...

* Curse
* Rest
* Roar
* Counter
* Protect
* Stealth Rock
* Endeavor

Quote:
Smarties-kun wrote:

Swampert (M) @ Leftovers ** Youcheat&Ihax=)
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 68 Atk / 40 Def / 120 Spd / 28 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Endeavor
- Ice Beam
- Substitute
Hmm. That's 2 new Swampert *Endeavor sets i'm gonna have to play around with.

Thanks Smarties-kun.
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Old April 5th, 2007 (12:16 PM). Edited April 5th, 2007 by Melody.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Synchronize View Post
Please stay out of my threads, sir.
NO! Why?
What is your problem
=================================================
Thanks White Lotus.

Swampert- Leftovers
Surf-STAB
Blizzard/Ice Beam-Grass Killer
Earthquake-STAB
Counter

Better?
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Old April 5th, 2007 (4:00 PM).
shanecdavis shanecdavis is offline
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No. Swampert's base SAtk is low enough that it needs the extra kick from Hydro Pump, which is also why you don't use Blizzard. One inaccurate move is enough and Swampert benefits more from HP than Blizzard.

Swampert @ Leftovers
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Atk / 120 Def / 116 SAtk / 16 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Counter / Protect / Rest
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
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Old April 5th, 2007 (4:17 PM).
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Ahh good old Cursepert what a wonderful Pokemanz.

So I hear Aero is really popular it seems and Cursepert just so happens to counter Aero and on top of that he walls HP [Ice] Zappy and so much more. ^_^

I think RoarPert needs more recognition:

Swampert (M) @ Leftovers ** ...
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 240 HP / 228 Def / 40 SAtk
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Rest
- Roar

Awesome!!!

I am back. ZEIG HEIL!
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Old April 5th, 2007 (4:21 PM).
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Regular Swamperts counter Aerodactyl too, but I'm glad you're back!
Brb making a celebration thread.
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Old April 5th, 2007 (4:47 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Synchronize View Post
Regular Swamperts counter Aerodactyl too, but I'm glad you're back!
Brb making a celebration thread.
I know it does. I was just saying RoarPert needs more props.

Thanks. ^________^
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Old April 5th, 2007 (7:12 PM).
Melody Melody is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shanecdavis View Post
No. Swampert's base SAtk is low enough that it needs the extra kick from Hydro Pump, which is also why you don't use Blizzard. One inaccurate move is enough and Swampert benefits more from HP than Blizzard.

Swampert @ Leftovers
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Atk / 120 Def / 116 SAtk / 16 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Counter / Protect / Rest
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
The only Reason I dont Use Hydro pump is Because of its low pp and imperfect accuracy. I like to ensure I Hit my Foe So i can do Maximum Damage
Surf has 90 Acc and Hydro Pump only has 85 Acc(Correct me if I am wrong)
Finally My swampert is Hasty Nature with >240 HP and Loads of atk EVs As well as Some SpAtk&SpDef EVs too. He can take a Giga Drain from a Lv 100 Venosaur if it isnt holding a Miracle Seed or Maxed on SpAtk EVs. That is why I Use Return. It's Power is 120 when Max Friendship And is Loads More Dependable than Counter when facing a special sweeper.
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Old April 5th, 2007 (8:02 PM).
shanecdavis shanecdavis is offline
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Hmmmmmmmmm. You don't want to use Hydro Pump, which is a STAB move with 5 PP and 80% accuracy, but you use Blizzard, which is not a STAB move with 5 PP and only 70% accuracy. Very odd. BTW - Surf is 100% accurate.

Also, Return fails. It is non-STAB and 102 AP, not 120. Counter DOUBLES the damage of a physical move that is used against it. That means as long as the physical move is over 51 AP (most are), then it will do more damage than Return does. A STAB Earthquake handles special sweepers easier than either Counter or Return anyways.

Hasty Nature isn't really doing much either as it doesn't help Swampert outrun many things that it doesn't, or rather can't, anyways. Relaxed makes it absorb physical hits easier and Brave lets it hit harder.
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Old April 6th, 2007 (9:11 AM).
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when poketrainer entered this thread, it started to suck....

Light Screen is nice enough for keep alive Swampert for maybe one good attack, but Swampy still cant counter grasses well enough with it anyway
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Old April 7th, 2007 (2:44 PM).
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CounterPert is like lol hi HP [Grass] Zapdos, I'm going to eat you and your babies.
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Old April 7th, 2007 (3:02 PM).
White Lotus White Lotus is offline
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Quote:
Mullet wrote:

CounterPert is like lol hi HP [Grass] Zapdos, I'm going to eat you and your babies.
He better enjoy that Tyson impression while it lasts cause in 4th Gen he'll need to change his name to MirrorPert if he wants to sling back *Hidden Powers.

Welcome Back Mullet!

I look foward to my Black Eyes.
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Old April 7th, 2007 (4:11 PM).
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Man, 4th gen makes me chuckle.
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Old April 7th, 2007 (6:53 PM).
White Lotus White Lotus is offline
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Quote:
Mullet wrote:

Man, 4th gen makes me chuckle.
Oh man. Don't tell me you're in on the Embargo of the 4th too.

I'm gonna need someone to rate my 4th Gen teams other than AragornBird. (Not that there's anything wrong with his rates - Just a different perspective would be nice though)

Are you telling me you aren't a little interested in JirChamp new school style. I freaking am.

Did you see Jumpman16 using Jirachi to pass *Wishes with *U-Turn? Come on you don't want in on this either?
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