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Old April 13th, 2007 (1:27 PM).
peabobo's sexy legs peabobo's sexy legs is offline
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Well, here goes nothing...

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Synchronize
(EVs - Def 255, Sp Def 255, HP 6)
Impish (+Def,-Sp Attk)
Bite
Confuse Ray
Toxic
Moonlight

[email protected] Sand
Snow Cloak
(EVs - Attk 255, Sp Attk 255, HP 6)
Brave (+Attk,-Speed)
Earthquake
Ice Beam
Curse
Hail

[email protected]
Serene Grace
(EVs - Sp Attk 255, Def 255, HP 6)
Modest (+Sp Attk,-Attk)
Air Slash
Psychic
Thunder Wave
Reflect

[email protected]
Serene Grace
(EVs - Def 255, Sp Def 255, Sp Attk 6)
Bold (+Def,-Attk)
Rest
Softboiled
Counter
Thunderbolt

[email protected] Belt
Anticipation
(EVs - Attk 255, Sp Def 255, HP 6)
Adamant (+Attk,-Sp Attk)
Sludge Bomb
Brick Break
Toxic
Rock Climb

[email protected] Water
Natural Cure
(EVs - Sp Attk 255, Speed 255, HP 6)
Modest (+Sp Attk,-Attk)
Psychic
Surf
Rain Dance
Thunder

Rates appreciated.
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Old April 13th, 2007 (2:30 PM).
White Lotus White Lotus is offline
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Ay~Yi~Yi.

Umbreon w/Leftovers
'Synchronize' : Passes on Status Problems.
(EV's : HP 252 / Split the rest between Def/Sdf>
<Bold : +Def / -Att>
* Mean Look
* Taunt
* Baton Pass
* Wish

Mamoswine w/Leftovers
'Snow Cloak' : Raises Evasion in *Hail.
(EV's : Att 252 / Spd 252 / HP 4)
<Adament : +Att / -Sat>
* Earthquake
* Stone Edge
* Ice Shard
* Stealth Rock

Togekiss w/Leftovers
'Serene Grace' : Doubles chance of extra effect activating.
(EV's : HP 228 / Def 60 / Sat 96 / Spd 124)
<Bold : +Def / -Att>
* Air Slash
* Aura Sphere
* Thunder Wave
* Scheme / * Grass Knot

Blissey w/Leftovers
'Serene Grace' : Doubles chance of extra effect activating.
(EV's : Help Please)
<Bold : +Def / -Att>
* Seismic Toss
* Ice Beam
* Aromatherapy
* Softboiled

Toxicroak I'll get back to ya. Never thought about him before but it's something like *Poison Jab / *Sucker Punch / *Revenge / *Taunt. It's somewhat novelty but gets good synergy from using *Taunt -> *Ambush / *Revenge. You could always go with *Cross Chop if 2 moves reliant on *Taunt makes you squirmish.

Starmie w/Choice Specs
'Natural Cure' : Removes status effects when removed from battle.
(EV's : Sat 252 / Spd 252 / HP 4)
<Timid : +Spd / -Att>
* Surf
* Thunderbolt
* Ice Beam
* Grass Knot
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Old April 13th, 2007 (2:36 PM).
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Iceman3k Iceman3k is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NutriSweet View Post
Well, here goes nothing...

Umbreon (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 212 HP / 176 Def / 120 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Mean Look
- Baton Pass
- Wish
- Dark Pulse

I am really loling at Bite and Confuse Ray.

[email protected]Leftovers
Ability: Snow Cloak
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Atk / 176 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
Earthquake
Ice Fang
Rest / Stone Edge
Curse
You have Curse, and only 1 Physical Attack. And good luck on getting Curse to work on this. You should just run with Substitute and attack from there.

[email protected]
Serene Grace
EVs: 168 HP / 160 Spd / 180 SDef
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
Air Slash
Aura Sphere
Wish
Reflect
Air Slash does what Psychic doesn't, so there's no point in that.

[email protected]Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
212 HP / 216 Def / 80 SAtk
Bold (+Def,-Attk)
Ice Beam
Softboiled
Aromatherapy
Focus Blast / Seismic Toss
What exactly is with Rest AND Softboiled on the same set?

[email protected] Belt
Anticipation
(EVs - Attk 255, Sp Def 255, HP 6)
Adamant (+Attk,-Sp Attk)
Sludge Bomb
Brick Break
Toxic
Rock Climb
You should be using Heracross. This thing is a wuss.

[email protected]Leftovers
Natural Cure
EVs: 172 HP / 80 Def / 100 Spd / 116 Sp. Atk / 40 Sp. Def
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk
Recover
Surf
Rapid Spin
Thunderbolt
Rain Dance is NOT how you use Starmie. ._.

Rates appreciated.
Here's some words of advice.

- Don't use items that boost a specific type. They only raise the power of an attack type by 10%, and you're only using that one attack for the boost. Long story short, it's like not using an item at all.

- Don't use HM Attacks unless you're using Surf on Water Pokemon. They're all useless.

- Don't use 2 health recovery attacks on the same moveset.

If I remember anything else, I will get back to you with it. And as you can tell, this team needed major work. Replace Toxicroak with Heracross and possibly replace Mamoswine with Aerodactyl.
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Old April 13th, 2007 (3:33 PM).
peabobo's sexy legs peabobo's sexy legs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman3k View Post
Here's some words of advice.

- Don't use items that boost a specific type. They only raise the power of an attack type by 10%, and you're only using that one attack for the boost. Long story short, it's like not using an item at all.

- Don't use HM Attacks unless you're using Surf on Water Pokemon. They're all useless.

- Don't use 2 health recovery attacks on the same moveset.

If I remember anything else, I will get back to you with it. And as you can tell, this team needed major work. Replace Toxicroak with Heracross and possibly replace Mamoswine with Aerodactyl.
Yeah, the Boil/Rest thing was carelessness, as with Rock Climb.
As for the replacements, I wanted to come up with a competitive team solely out of thse Pokemon >_< And how many Leftovers do you think I have? xp
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Old April 13th, 2007 (5:11 PM).
White Lotus White Lotus is offline
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Hey Iceman3K.

I've noticed your RMT's for 4th Gen are very 3rd Genish.

Starmie will not be able to *Recover anymore. There are too many things with *Grass Knot / *Energy Ball / *Crunch / *Blade Test / *Pursuit as well as all the *Thunderbolt / *Megahorn's it used to sweat. The Choicer will be the standard in the 4th Gen and *Grass Knot is evil on Starmie period.

Also why would you have two *Wish pokes on the same team. I like Togekiss with *Wish too but not on a team with Umbreon.

Speaking of Umbreon - do not attack with him. *Toxic is as offensive as it gets for him and i don't even like that. *Taunt / *Charm for that last slot or get another poke.

Why would you replace *Ice Shard on Mamoswine? STAB *Ice Shard is the best thing Mamoswine has going for it along with those massive HP.

*Ice Shard > *Ice Fang especially on such a slow poke.
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Old April 13th, 2007 (8:05 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Lotus View Post
Starmie will not be able to *Recover anymore. There are too many things with *Grass Knot / *Energy Ball / *Crunch / *Blade Test / *Pursuit as well as all the *Thunderbolt / *Megahorn's it used to sweat. The Choicer will be the standard in the 4th Gen and *Grass Knot is evil on Starmie period.

Why would you replace *Ice Shard on Mamoswine? STAB *Ice Shard is the best thing Mamoswine has going for it along with those massive HP.

*Ice Shard > *Ice Fang especially on such a slow poke.
i dunno, with all the new stealth rock/poison spikes, starmie being the only RSpinner seems dangerous for it, but less dangerous for anyone else. i'd want to stick with recover and rapid spin. also, grass knot on starmie IS killer, but it's not covering any *new* types.

agree on ice shard, completely. BTW nutrisweet, ice shard can only be learned LVL up by Swinub.
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Old April 13th, 2007 (8:52 PM).
White Lotus White Lotus is offline
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Notice i said he couldn't *Recover anymore.

Using *Rapid Spin is still a very viable option. You just can't use the old 3rd Gen set with it anymore because everything will be able to hit it Super Effectively.

*Surf / *Thunderbolt / *Ice Beam / *Rapid Spin
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Old April 13th, 2007 (9:00 PM). Edited April 13th, 2007 by Iceman3k.
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Having Rapid Spin on something that isn't a tank without Recover isn't very desirable.
Therefore, if he doesn't think Starmie will make it with Rapid Spin alone, then perhaps Blastoise can.

EDIT: Ice Shard is only as good as Quick Attack (Base Power 40), while Ice Fang does more (Base Power 65). Only thing I'd use Ice Shard for is when paired with Choice Band.

EDIT 2: But then again, I just thought of something. Ice Shard might actually have enough potential to OHKO things like Sala and Garchomp after 1 or 2 Curses...
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Old April 13th, 2007 (9:06 PM).
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Samson Samson is offline
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Originally Posted by White Lotus View Post
Notice i said he couldn't *Recover anymore.
umm, i'm looking at serebii at the moment and it says that he can o_O
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Old April 13th, 2007 (9:18 PM).
White Lotus White Lotus is offline
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LOL

Dude i meant he can't pull it off anymore.

There's too much offense and too many new moves available to everyone that can Super Effective hit him.

When i said...

Quote:
Notice i said he couldn't *Recover anymore.
I meant that i didn't say not to *Rapid Spin. Simply that using *Recover for the most part will be a waste of time because everyone and there mom will be hitting him for +50% HP.

Everyone can use *Grass Knot and it hits Starmie Super Effective at 80 Base Power. You can't *Recover off that type of damage. That's leaving out all the Physical Sweepers that have brand spanking new (Dark) attacks coming out the wazoo.

Quote:
Iceman3k wrote:

Having Rapid Spin on something that isn't a tank without Recover isn't very desirable.

Therefore, if he doesn't think Starmie will make it with Rapid Spin alone, then perhaps Blastoise can.
I know. That's why i suggested this...

Quote:
Starmie w/Choice Specs
'Natural Cure' : Removes status effects when removed from battle.
(EV's : Sat 252 / Spd 252 / HP 4)
<Timid : +Spd / -Att>
* Surf
* Thunderbolt
* Ice Beam
* Grass Knot
The point being that Starmie can no longer Tank. He's just a Special Sweeper like everyone else now. He still gets Awesome Coverage on Great Stats. I'd just use other pokes to spin now.

<EDIT> If you want to spin I'd use Claydol for his awesome (Ground)/(Rock) resist or Donphan. Has anyone noticed how super sexy he's gotten. He can now use *Ice Shard - that's a Speed Priority (Ice) Attack. With *Earthquake + *Stone Edge and a bonafide (Dragon) wrecker to go along with his nice stats and *Rapid Spin he's an awesome poke.
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Old April 14th, 2007 (9:32 AM).
peabobo's sexy legs peabobo's sexy legs is offline
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BTW nutrisweet, ice shard can only be learned LVL up by Swinub.
What the hell does that have to do with anything?

I pick Lotus's Starmie for now. And if no one has noticed I think I messed up on listing the EVs. That would total up to 516 EVs total... >_<
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Old April 14th, 2007 (10:26 AM).
White Lotus White Lotus is offline
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Quote:
NutriSweet wrote:

And if no one has noticed I think I messed up on listing the EVs. That would total up to 516 EVs total... >_<
To tell you the truth i didn't even look at your EV's because the sets were so wrecked. Whenever i see 255 i just assume you only used Stats and split them down the middle forgoing the extra 1 Stat #.

For Future Refrence Min/Max is (252 / 252 / 4) and the last 2 EV's you don't even need to post since they don't effect anything.

Quote:
Iceman3k wrote:

EDIT: Ice Shard is only as good as Quick Attack (Base Power 40), while Ice Fang does more (Base Power 65). Only thing I'd use Ice Shard for is when paired with Choice Band.

EDIT 2: But then again, I just thought of something. Ice Shard might actually have enough potential to OHKO things like Sala and Garchomp after 1 or 2 Curses...
Trust me when i tell you *Ice Shard > *Ice Fang. Even without any boosts it is enough to scare away enemy Salamence / Garchomp / Gliscor / etc. With *Stealth Rocks around not everything will be entering battle with Full HP either.

People down play the effect of Speed Priority way to much.

Most of the time it isn't your Max HP vs. my Max HP. And later in the match a STAB / ChoiceBanded / Speed Priority is a dangerous weapon.

If you use a poke with 'Technician' that would be Double STAB here's an example...

Hitmontop w/ChoiceBand
'Technician' : STAB on moves 60 Base Power and under.
<Adament : +Att / -Sat>
* Mach Punch
* Aerial Ace
* Pursuit
* Rapid Spin

Every move gets STAB. *Mach Punch gets Double STAB. That's a 90 Base Attack always goes first move that gets ChoiceBand damage making Hitmontop's Att stat +400. (Fight) + (Flying) is great coverage of 90 Base Attack moves. *Pursuit can chase down fleeing pokes and *Rapid Spin gives great support to your team.

I'm sure this guy will be BL / UU but this is just an example of how dangerous a Speed Priority move can be. He will always be very dangerous in the lategame when *Mach Punch might run through a team that doesn't have any (Ghost) left. In the lower tier he will be a menace at any time.
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Old April 14th, 2007 (11:28 AM). Edited April 14th, 2007 by Samson.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NutriSweet View Post
What the hell does that have to do with anything?
you don't have to be rude. i was just laying down some information that would come in handy if you decided to teach it Ice Shard, which you should. it's not as if you were fully informed of all the conditions in D/P... you even managed to overcount your EVs. >/

EDIT: hey White Lotus,

with technician, is the double STAB boost reliant off of the original base power of the move, or is it off of the first existant STAB? so, would it be 80 power for mach punch (40+STAB=60---> 60+ [40 STAB]= 80) or 90 power (40+STAB=60-----> 60 +STAB= 90)? either way, it'd be a awesome, but it would make a bit of difference.
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Old April 14th, 2007 (12:24 PM).
White Lotus White Lotus is offline
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I'm pretty sure it boosts the STAB #.

So before it calculates the 'Technician' Boost it views *Mach Punch as a 60 Base Power move due to STAB.

I'm not 100% but i'm pretty confident that's the way it is. So to answer your question...

Quote:
*Mach Punch = 40 + 20 STAB = 60 + 30 'Technician' = 90 Base Power
<EDIT> What Samson was saying Nutrisweet is if you want *Ice Shard on Mamoswine don't evolve Swinub until after Lv.28 because his bigger Evos don't learn it ~ but it doesn't matter because Swinub evolves to Piloswine at Lv.33 so you can't miss it.
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Old April 14th, 2007 (12:25 PM).
peabobo's sexy legs peabobo's sexy legs is offline
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But Mamoswine doesn't even have Technician. So why would I use Ice Shard?
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Old April 14th, 2007 (12:37 PM).
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To hit the major threats of the OU metagame, Salamence and Garchomp
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Old April 14th, 2007 (12:50 PM).
White Lotus White Lotus is offline
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Do you have a learning disability NutriSweet?

Quote:
White Lotus wrote:

Trust me when i tell you *Ice Shard > *Ice Fang. Even without any boosts it is enough to scare away enemy Salamence / Garchomp / Gliscor / etc. With *Stealth Rocks around not everything will be entering battle with Full HP either.
Do you not read the posts?

The 'Technician' discussion was an off shoot of how i think Speed Priority is an undervalued commodity.

If you are really worried about the power of Mamoswine's *Ice Shard than strap a ChoiceBand on him and be done with it.

He will never get off *Ice Fang on either Salamence or Garchomp because they will weaken him when he switches in and finish him off with the second hit because they are faster than him.

*Ice Shard will go first and have a chance to drop them before they drop you. If either has already taken a hit than they will always die in 1HKO fashion to *Ice Shard.
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Old April 14th, 2007 (3:51 PM).
peabobo's sexy legs peabobo's sexy legs is offline
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Then why tf did you mention Technician? w/e I'll use Ice Shard if it means that much to you.
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Old April 14th, 2007 (7:47 PM).
White Lotus White Lotus is offline
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It was an off shoot of the Speed Priority talk i was having with Samson + Iceman3k. I'm a big fan of Speed Priority as an extra effect and posting that Hitmontop set was an illustration of how much impact a Speed Priority attack could make.

And if you use *Ice Shard do it for yourself. It means nothing to me. In fact go into a couple battles with *Ice Fang and get KO before you can get it off and learn for yourself.
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