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Old August 6th, 2007 (9:48 AM).
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Ludicolo
Claydol
Milotic
Metagross
Cradily
Togekiss

Here is the current team. It obvious that we all want Ludicolo, so we keep him. Next order of business, Cradily. Do you want him or not. I dont want him, so here is the vote for CRADILY so far:

Keep: 0

Lose: 1

This team has way to many walls. Ludicolo, Claydol, and Milotic, plus Cradily if we dont get rid of him. And we have only one Physical and Sp. Sweeper. Im guessing that we will be putting in Garchomp, which means that Milotic or Ludicolo is going to also serve as a sp.sweeper. Ludicolo dosent have room to be successful in both, which means that we are going to have to make Milotic count for something. This team dosent seem balanced in power right:

Walls
-------
Miloic
Ludicolo
Claydol

Physical Sweeper
-------
Metagross

Sp.Sweeper
-------
Togekiss
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Old August 6th, 2007 (9:52 AM).
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The more I stare, the more I feel uneasy. I say keep Ludicolo-Nice typing, and good moves,-but I just feel scared to send this team off to war.
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Old August 6th, 2007 (9:54 AM). Edited August 6th, 2007 by Punishment.
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Togekiss is the Special Sweeper even though it relies on flinchax. Milotic is best served a bulky water but dont get this wrong as Milotic can still do tons of damage with that Sp Atk stat. She is too slow to sweep.

Ludicolo with Rain Dance would be able to sweep despite its low Sp. Atk. Its a Drainer though and a counter to all bulky waters. With Rain Dance Surf is like godly (180 BP I think?). STAB Energy Ball is like 120 BP.
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Old August 6th, 2007 (9:57 AM).
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I say lose Cradily. He's nice, but not useful on this particular team.
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Old August 6th, 2007 (10:01 AM).
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Exactly. We dont have a reliable Sp.Sweeper on this team, besides Togekiss, but she isnt exactly the fasts pokemon in the world. I know about Milotic, but she is mainly for walling, and Ludicolo can not be both a good wall, and a good Sp.Sweeper. As c dog said himself, you have to pick one or the other. And he is apperantly the Ludicolo Expert.

Vote:

Keep Cradily: 0

Lose Cradily: 2
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Old August 6th, 2007 (10:10 AM).
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Hmmm well we dont have to follow the metagame trend do we? Surpise is always nice and this is how my Ludicolo is:

[email protected]
Calm Nature (+Sp Def,-Atk)
Ability: Swift Swim
244 HP, 166 Sp. Def, 100 Def
-Leech Seed
-Energy Ball
-Surf
-Rain Dance

Stats at level 100:
HP:350
Atk: Forgot but it doesnt need it!
Def: 200
Sp. Atk: 198
Sp. Def: 304
Speed: 164 (I think)

Meh, I may get ripped apart for this but this is merely a suggestion on my part. ^_^
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Old August 6th, 2007 (10:17 AM).
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Well there is no Synthesis that way, which means that there will be no way for us to get HP fast. And true, we will have Rain Dance, Leech Seed, and Leftovers, but that takes a while to get set up, plus it probably is going to get out run because of his speed.
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Old August 6th, 2007 (10:19 AM).
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actually, the wall version of ludicolo should do some nice damage thanks to its base stat. and the sweeper version conversely can take sp.att damage well thanks to its typing and base sp.def. you just have to decide on which you want more. if you want the sweeper then i actually think kingdra may be better.. kingdra also has excellent typing being only weak to dragon(yes, only one weakness) with great all-around stats and is one of the best sweepers in the game. but ludicolo does have leech seed and synthesis going for it.
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Old August 6th, 2007 (10:22 AM).
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Exactly. For him to be the best Sp.Sweeper he can be, he cant be the best Wall that he could be, and Vice-Versa. We want him as a wall, which means that we are still short of a Sp.Sweeper.
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Old August 6th, 2007 (10:23 AM). Edited August 6th, 2007 by Punishment.
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Well there is no Synthesis that way, which means that there will be no way for us to get HP fast. And true, we will have Rain Dance, Leech Seed, and Leftovers, but that takes a while to get set up, plus it probably is going to get out run because of his speed.
Thats why we have Rain Dance. That 164 is instantly changed into a 328. Ludicolo has one of the best typings inho which grants it the best resistances. Ground and Steel attacks are only half as effective while water is quarter effective. Rain Dance also basically boosts Surf (along with STAB to) 190.

Suprisingly most people are also unfamiliar with Ludicolo and they switch into something with Ice Beam in hopes of killing it that way. But with that defense and neutrality to ICe it can take about 3 hits.

The argument behing Synthesis is because of the weather itself. Rain Dance and the ever so common Sandstorm weakens its effectiveness.

Well I trust c dog on his opinions as he is more expericened. :)
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Old August 6th, 2007 (10:24 AM).
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I vote sweeper Ludicolo. I'm not suggesting, but what happend to Shiftry?
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Old August 6th, 2007 (10:29 AM).
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If we short of a special how about Mismagius? This Pokemon is truly underrated. It immune to Ground, Fighting and Normal attacks. (Anti-Bliss anyone?) This also opens up the option that it can be our Anti-Spinner. It's weakness is only Ghost and Dark.

Its important stats are all at 105 except for HP which is at a low 60. >.<

EDIT: I also like Kingdra as I run one of those too. ^_^
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Old August 6th, 2007 (10:37 AM).
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Punishment, we are not short of a pokemon. This is our team:

Claydol
Ludicolo
Metagross
Milotic
Togekiss
(Most Likely Garchomp)

I still dont really see a choice yet. Are we going Wall Ludicolo, Sp.Sweep Ludicolo, or a mix of both? This is what we should do:

Claydol (Wall, Rapid Spinner)
Ludicolo (Sp.Sweeper)
Metagross (Physical Sweeper)
Milotic (Wall)
Togekiss (Sp.Sweeper)
Garchomp (Physical Sweeper)

But i dont like Garchomp because of his Beyond OU status, and he would make half our team weak to ice. Maybe we could come up with something other than Garchomp.
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Old August 6th, 2007 (10:37 AM).
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mismaguis is nice.. but i thought this team wanted some speed? gengar or alakazam perhaps? choice scarf porygon Z?
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Old August 6th, 2007 (10:40 AM).
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Look, we are not deciding on pokes whether they are OU or not. This isn't the most original team, its the most fuctional. If an extreme OU will help, so be it. I do agree on that Ice comment.
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Old August 6th, 2007 (10:41 AM).
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mismaguis is nice.. but i thought this team wanted some speed? gengar or alakazam perhaps? choice scarf porygon Z?
Well we could go with any Pokemon you suggested but no offense Vainz we are taking the weakness analysis alitte to far and it is hard to make a team. That was the only reason I even supported Cradily to be honest.

With Milotic and now Ludicolo on the team we shouldnt fear Ice Beams.

Id like Garchomp to replace Cradily. There has always been more Physical Sweepers then Special Sweepers. Not to mention most Special Sweepers with high speed tend to be frail. I like Togekiss because its strong, can outrun at least some of the metagame and can take a hit wthout shattering to pieces.

I say we dont need a Special Sweeper as Milotic and Togekiss along with Ludicolo can cover that area to a certain extent.

We only have one physical sweeper and if Metagross goes down we will have a hard time I am sure of it. So an extra buddy that MEtagross is scared of wouldnt hurt. Garchomp is overused and it is like that for a reason.
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Old August 6th, 2007 (10:49 AM).
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I see your point about the Ice Beam, but in the back of my mind, i know we will still have a team that is half weak to ice. If a majority of people dont see it as a problem, than you can put Garchomp on, but it will personally bug me. I only said Garchomp is OU because its true, and every team in existance should have a Garchomp counter. If it dosent, then the team probably sucks. If every good team will have some kind of Garchomp counter, it may be better to go with another choice that wont cause half our team to be weak to ice. Im just saying. When making the Best Team, we have to consider what other people are going to use.
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Old August 6th, 2007 (10:51 AM).
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I would like to suggest Weavile. Fast & Strong.
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Old August 6th, 2007 (10:59 AM).
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Well Milotic, Ludicolo and the rest of the team cept for Metagross can counter Garchomp easily.

But there is a way for us to have a Special Sweeper Garchomp. A variant that employs trickery that no one would expect.

[email protected] Orbs
Naugthy Nature (+Atk, -Sp. Def)
252 Sp Atk / 252 Spd /6 HP
-Swords Dance
-Earthquake
-Draco Meteor
-Fire Blast

Send in Garchomp and most people would switch out and send in thier Grachomp counters. Or you are in a battle and use Swords Dance and they switch out expecting an Earthquake or Dragon Claw. Then hit them with a Draco Meteor. This could work because Draco Meteor is insanly powerful. (210 BP with STAB). With Stealth Rock support and all that it is nearly an instant KO.

Sure this can work on Salamence but everyone is familar with Specsmence. : /

Just sometihng fun to think about.
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Old August 6th, 2007 (11:04 AM).
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Sigh. What about Weavile? Fast & strong.
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Old August 6th, 2007 (11:29 AM).
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Sigh. What about Weavile? Fast & strong.
Sorry I didnt see that.

I was typing ad editing things for a while so I didnt know anyone posted bofore me.

Yeah I do like Weavile but its up to the rest of the team.
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Old August 6th, 2007 (11:31 AM).
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No prob. I just wonder why no one suggest him earlier.
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Old August 6th, 2007 (11:34 AM).
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Would Weavile take the place of Garchomp if he was on the team?
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Old August 6th, 2007 (11:36 AM).
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The only thing I have a problem with is I prefer more physical sweepers on a team then special sweepers.
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Old August 6th, 2007 (11:43 AM).
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Well, Weavile's moveset hits every type (Ice Punch, Brick Break) And with Choice, it hitx hard n' heavy.
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