Chivalry: Dead or Alive?

[Romance Hero]

Chivalry:The qualities idealized by knighthood, such as bravery, courtesy, honor, and gallantry toward women. A manifestation of any of these qualities.

Some basic assets of chivalry:
Thou shalt believe all that the Church teaches, and shalt observe all its directions.
Thou shalt defend the Church.
Thou shalt respect all weaknesses, and shalt constitute thyself the defender of them.
Thou shalt love the country in which thou wast born.
Thou shalt not recoil before thine enemy.
Thou shalt make war against the Infidel without cessation, and without mercy.
Thou shalt perform scrupulously thy feudal duties, if they be not contrary to the laws of God.
Thou shalt never lie, and shall remain faithful to thy pledged word.
Thou shalt be generous, and give largess to everyone.
Thou shalt be everywhere and always the champion of the Right and the Good against Injustice and Evil.
*Thou shalt be courteous torwards all womanhood.*

*This is the one I'm stressing.
The ones in red are more modern.

Do you think chivalry is over? Would you like for it to be over? See more of it?
I want your opinions!

 

[Waffle-San]

Well, Courage, bravery, noble spirit. There are all still alive today but so much has changed too. I don't think the whole respect for women and defendence of church is still as common.
Sometimes I think the world could use more Mr.May's knights in shining armour.

 

[Spaekle Oddberry]

It's dead. It came from a period where the church ruled the world and women had next to no rights. That's all changed now, and while some people may keep a few of those values, it's not a common belief system any more. I'd really like for the religious part to be taken out of it, but many of the points you listed are good traits for a person to have. :3

 

[Romance Hero]

the age of disrespect towards women came most strongly with the coming of the hip hop era...

EDIT: in the most recent i mean.

 

[Azonic]

Chivalrieay(er w/e the hell that word was) must die >3

 

[Astinus]

Chivalrieay(er w/e the hell that word was) must die >3

Yes, let's all lie, cheat, steal, and treat women poorly.

I haven't seen much chivalry in the world. Though we are living in a modern world where the gender roles are blurred, and women aren't dainty little dames anymore. Though it is nice to see a man hold the door open instead of closing it on me. -_-; In some people, it is still alive and well. For others, it's gone.

And charity...no one really gives to charity anymore. We're selfish people, where it's all about "me" and what "I" want.

But as for me wanting to see more of it, of course.

 

[kohei]

Rap music videos killed knighthood amongst young people, true story.

On the other hand, I believe the concept of noblesse oblige still lives. If that wasn't the case, privileged people won't bother helping the less fortunate (unless if was for publicity -_-).

 

[Romance Hero]

So a question for the ladies: I know the poster above me commented on this :)

Would you rather be interested in a pimpish kind of guy, or a courteous gentleman?

 

[JX Valentine]

Would you rather be interested in a pimpish kind of guy, or a courteous gentleman?

We'd like a courteous gentleman, but the problem is they're rare to nonexistent. :)

Also, lol, I'm surprised you didn't highlight the Infidel one in red, but that's a political comment.

That said, it's just dead enough to not have the energy to get up and claw us in the face if we poked it with a stick. I say this because, yes, Hanako states it pretty accurately. While there may be a few guys who will hold doors open for women and whatnot, the truth of the matter is that the Golden Age of Knights this is not, and women's rights have a lot to do with that. That is, women don't really need to be defended anymore. So, instead, the gender boundaries aren't really all that there anymore, and men aren't necessarily all that courteous to women. There are, for example, still a few sexists who believe all women are either meek and mild or sex objects to be ogled.

And to tell you the truth, chivalry had died a long time before hip hop. Women have been treated as objects by men for centuries, being barred educations, being dominated by social code, being told that their only place is in the kitchens and with the children... It's only recently, actually, that they've finally fought back and have become something other than pretty home decor or whores. (As in, those were your only two choices of women back in the day.)

So, in reality, the age of disrespect towards women was almost dead by the time hip hop came along.

 

[Radikaru]

I've met many people who were very chivalrous, my fiance and two best friends being a few.
But, I don't think it should be limited to men being courteous towards women, because that kind of defeats the purpose of equality. xD

 

[Romance Hero]

We'd like a courteous gentleman, but the problem is they're rare to nonexistent. :)

Also, lol, I'm surprised you didn't highlight the Infidel one in red, but that's a political comment.

people are free to choose whatever religion he/she want. though i use it a few times, its because osama used it so many times and its such an enjoyable thing to say, without saying it to others of course.

well I in essence am a man of chivalry, I wouldn't dare treat a woman with disrespect, nor bring a hand to them. This does not mean i view them as weak, or defenseless, it's just in my nature to be courteous. jeez, i really need to stop watching spiderman and other hero movies... hahaha.

 

[Kayleigh]

Well, you certainly don't meet very many people with those kinds of qualities these days... but I don't think chivalry has completely died out yet. Even my own brother always opens doors for me, despite the fact that I'm his sister and he's supposed to hate my guts. XD

Every now and then I'll run into other guys and men who are respectful like that, and it's so nice for a change because most don't take the time to do those little things. I think that women these days are partly to blame because some either try to act like men, and thus get treated more roughly, or lead pretty nasty lifestyles and only attract the ones who had no respect for them to begin with. (But I'm not saying it can't happen to innocent women, too... I've been hit on by a couple of perverted guys before, despite the fact that I'm not flirtatious at all and always dress modestly. x_x)

So I guess there will always be a few people out there who don't treat others nicely, but it's still not too late for everyone else--whether they're men or women--to start doing the opposite. It sure would be better that way.

 

[Jaimes]

Do you think chivalry is over? Would you like for it to be over? See more of it?
I want your opinions!

Chivalry is a custom for a knight. I hardly can say that knights still exist today, chivalry is a long gone, medieval thing and will stay that way.
Firstly however, chivalry varies between era to era and from writer to writer. If your concept of chivalry is somehow raised by your 'basic assets' allow me to say otherwise..

Thou shalt believe all that the Church teaches, and shalt observe all its directions.
Thou shalt defend the Church.

Considering this custom is so old, everything then was explained by 'God' including the movement of the planets, gravity, creationism, life, the universe and so on. Most things science now has logical explanations to. Today, the majority of people do not believe in Gods creation and his well planned talking snake.
Most people would not follow biblical ethics, ones that are constantly overlooked include stoning, mass murders, sexism, homophobia or passages that would make the sanest raise an eyebrow.
The same would apply for people of other religions.

Thou shalt respect all weaknesses, and shalt constitute thyself the defender of them.

Knights didn't know everything that happened around them. With the help of technology, we have a pretty good idea. ALL weakness? Theres still a 3rd world crisis, people rarely give to charity.. Society very much disproves this point.

Thou shalt love the country in which thou wast born.

Can be a good or bad thing. Very much depends on WHERE you are born really. It's easy for a US person to say 'I Love America' and act all patriotic, but slightly more difficult for someone in a significantly worse area of world. This concept can also lead to extremism, 'brainwashing' and racism - the concept of Nazism is a prime example.

Thou shalt not recoil before thine enemy.

Sometimes retreating is a more sensible move... ever watched 300? enough said. XD

Thou shalt make war against the Infidel without cessation, and without mercy.

Whoever wrote this clearly done so to appeal to crusaders. 'Infidel' refers to in a Christian context a Muslim person (or in a modern context an atheist).
From this chivalry seems to encourage killing people heartlessly of other faiths. Yep, go ahead its 'chivalry'. Without mercy or cessation? why not destroy their country, kill families, it's all good. Then I just look at headlines from Iraq.. I guess this chivalrous idealogy still happens today.

Thou shalt perform scrupulously thy feudal duties, if they be not contrary to the laws of God.

Wow. That just totally contradicts the first points. =/
Whoever wrote this was also someone of a high position. Feudal duties include paying taxes to the royals - who typically had high taxes to fund luxuries. A bit like the story of Robin Hood...

Thou shalt never lie, and shall remain faithful to thy pledged word.

Depends entirerly on what the 'pledge' is, but this for once seems reasonably sensible. Even though people still lie today....

Thou shalt be generous, and give largess to everyone.

Sorry to say, I don't see this happening often either. I'm pretty sure this wouldn't happen often in medieval times either.

Thou shalt be everywhere and always the champion of the Right and the Good against Injustice and Evil.

This is interesting. It all depends on peoples concepts of right and wrong. If 'chivalrous' good is any way similar to whats previously been said, then I wouldn't really want to champion it.

And finally:

*Thou shalt be courteous torwards all womanhood.*

Followed by:
"I don't think chivalry has completely died out yet. Even my own brother always opens doors for me"
"well I in essence am a man of chivalry, I wouldn't dare treat a woman with disrespect, nor bring a hand to them."
"I don't think it should be limited to men being courteous towards women, because that kind of defeats the purpose of equality."
"Yes, let's all .... treat women poorly."

Now this is where people are messing up on this topic. Chivalry is not the same as being polite. Being chivalrous would need to account for all of those points there, which I can honestly bet on, that none of you do.
As well as this, the concept of being courteous towards women only applied to other nobles. Medieval women had a significantly lower social status than men. Which placed, poor women at the lowest of the pecking order. Even Biblical text encourages this, (somethng vastly avoided today).
Also, notice 'womanhood' instead of the word 'woman', this refers the use of a woman to bear children and carry on the nobles title.
A medieval womans role was to bear children, look after the home and satisfy the husband.. thats it really. They had less legal rights to men, they were punished for talking, they were the ones punished for adultery, they could not marry of their own decisions and so on. Surely this is one of the most disrepectful concepts around.


Anyway I've typed loads on this silly post. Nobody today is chivalrous in a modern world, which is a good thing, people just fancy thereselves to be some heroic image of a media glamourised ancient. ¬_¬

 

[JX Valentine]

people are free to choose whatever religion he/she want. though i use it a few times, its because osama used it so many times and its such an enjoyable thing to say, without saying it to others of course.

The point was that if one were to assume that chivalry was alive, that clause could possibly, given the current political situation, be one of the strongest arguments towards the code's case according to some people's political opinions. You know, given what the word actually means. jwilso explained it nicely.

 

[Cosmic Tyrant]

Eh, Chivalry is something I never believd in. Don't get me wrong, I'm usually a noble guy, but that's all just a form of habit. There is no code of conduct for me. Because if you cross me, I WILL get my revenge, no matter what!

 

[~*!*~Tatsujin Gosuto~*!*~]

the age of disrespect towards women came most strongly with the coming of the hip hop era..

and Rap as well, men having half nuded or nuded girls in these videos are just really really sick



:t354:TG

 

[Romance Hero]

Alright, so it would seem that chivalry is not the right word for the someone would act in matters of courtesy, honesty, and charity. What else can there be said to put all these aspects into one word? Can it be said that I follow a sort of modernized chivalry?

Thanks to everyone for their opinions, this is something I am always curious about.

 

[Grovyle42(Griff8416)]

I, personally, practice the following. I am a strong believer in honor and chivalry.


Thou shalt respect all weaknesses, and shalt constitute thyself the defender of them.
Thou shalt love the country in which thou wast born.
Thou shalt not recoil before thine enemy.
Thou shalt make war against the Infidel without cessation, and without mercy. (This is kind of a '?' for me)
Thou shalt be generous, and give largess to everyone.
Thou shalt be everywhere and always the champion of the Right and the Good against Injustice and Evil.
Thou shalt be courteous torwards all womanhood.


Unfortunately, with this society and this generation; Chivalry is dead. I'd hate to say it but I think it's true.

 

[Eos Aduro]

It's pretty dead, but its not obliterated, but its not just guys anymore.

 

[sims796]

Jwilso72, there is no need to get literal. Yes, CHIVALRY is dead, in every sense. It was used by knights in the Medival days. LOOOONNNGG ago. If we all go by that, this thread should be locked now. There is no point trying to argue fact.

However, we can debate in a "modern" chivalry, so to speak. We can uphold chivalrous (no U?) values. Specifically, those Liason bolded in Red. I find myself surprisingly chivalrous. I can't seem to back down from a fight, regardless of the odds. I am also very respectful towards women, though I get angry when its not mutual. Of course, I still end up being kind to a fault. And I find I am generous. I dislike giving up money, although I will if desprately needed.

However, we must all remember that generosity-god I'm tired- is not only giving up money. Not by a longshot. It is helping out. Giving up your spot in line. Giving up your seat. And other things I am far too tired to Wii-type.

What got me, however, was Jwilso72's comment on generousity (now I KNOW I'm spelling it wrong). There is plenty of it, just as there is plenty bitterness. I dropped $100 dollars on the floor before I got on the bus, some lady waited on the next stop to return it.