4th Gen Fair Hacking: "Fair?" or advantage?

[BeachBoy]

I know there are numerous threads about hacking and what not, and im frankly not sure if im in the correct forum...Anyways, I know we all have heard other think "fair" hacking is ok...Also I don't think anyone has made this kind of thread yet.
But frankly what is fair hacking...

I recently got into a debate with my friend about this...

Shiny : 1/8192 chance? and hackers usually just make all their pokemon shiny to be well shiny... As the rest of us chain and work our meat pies off, they get in seconds...

But the color of a shiny doesnt promote a competitive advantage, so in the terms :Ok ill allow fair hacking" Shinies are perfectly fine... Yet it still is highly unlikely we still allow it.

IVs: 1/1,073,741,824 (or you'll get one 31 each IV pokemon per 1,073,741,824)
Now this brings me to my point. The main problem with the problems fair hacking is "IVs"
My friend claims 31 IVs in each stat is within the guidelines of fair hacking? This is were I get thrown a curve. To get 31 IVs is not impossible, if fact we all battle on shoddy with max ivs and hidden powers, but is it a competitive advantage?

Now I have bred three all stat 31 pokemon in my Pokelife span. I didnt cheat and yet It can't be a competitive advantage...
Things I know fair hacking is NOT: max stats, 255 evs everywhere, exceeding 510.

But back to the IVs, would a full 31 ivs or hidden power fall into the category of advantage when the terms, Fair hacking are thrown around.

So what are the guidelines to fair hacking, what do you consider "fair", and should players that use hacking devices be allowed to play fairly with max IVs/hiddenpowers, which again isnt impossible, but tough to do.

You thoughts, thanks. Also mods if I have misplaced the location, I apologize, please relocate if I messed up.

 

[AluminumKnight]

My thoughts:

"Fair hacking," even though I frown upon any hacking, is limited to these things:

Hacking event pokemon - it's a pain to get these. In fact, it's impossible for some. Since event pokemon are banished to the uber tier anyway, I don't have a problem with it.

Hacking shinies - Doesn't affect how good the pokemon is at battling or anything, so go ahead. If I find a legit shiny, I'm much, much more proud of that than I would be of a hacked shiny.

Hacking legal EV spreads, gender, and/or nature - It doesn't even take very long to EV train, but if you really hate it, go ahead and hack a legal EV spread. Note that this means putting 255 in all stats is NOT fair hacking. Gender and nature can be achieved by breeding a little bit.

Everything else is off limits. Hacking IVs is cheating, plain and simple. Unlike hacking legal EVs, a normal player can not feasibly achieve perfect IVs, so the hacker is gaining an unfair advantage. I would refuse to play against a player who has done this.

 

[BeachBoy]

My thoughts:

"Fair hacking," even though I frown upon any hacking, is limited to these things:

Hacking event pokemon - it's a pain to get these. In fact, it's impossible for some. Since event pokemon are banished to the uber tier anyway, I don't have a problem with it.

Hacking shinies - Doesn't affect how good the pokemon is at battling or anything, so go ahead. If I find a legit shiny, I'm much, much more proud of that than I would be of a hacked shiny.

Hacking legal EV spreads, gender, and/or nature - It doesn't even take very long to EV train, but if you really hate it, go ahead and hack a legal EV spread. Note that this means putting 255 in all stats is NOT fair hacking. Gender and nature can be achieved by breeding a little bit.

Everything else is off limits. Hacking IVs is cheating, plain and simple. Unlike hacking legal EVs, a normal player can not feasibly achieve perfect IVs, so the hacker is gaining an unfair advantage. I would refuse to play against a player who has done this.

Exactly what I thought, thanks for the well thought out responce..

I too frown upon any hacking, but all these swirls of fair hacking I wondered what the community thinks of it.
The true reason really is on my youtube account should I allow fair hacking and then my frined brought up the argument on IVs, thanks for the responce...

Others what do you think?

 

[Amp]

What about hacking for TMs? Is that ok? Oh, and masterballs.

 

[lostprophetsown]

to me hacking is hacking i have a R4 and i could easliy pokesav my save but what would be the point of getting a game then just cheating straight to the end in like 5minutes?i enjoy the thrill of chaining and looknig for pokemon...alright it might be annoying at times but u feel really happy and pleased with urself thinking i did that and found it rather than going omg all my pokemonz r haxord and shini i am teh pownage i h8 people who think like that and the iv spread thing is even worse because its pretty much impossible for 31 ivs in everything and will give a very unfair advantage and i wouldnt like to battle anyone i found to do this but to be honest i wouldnt be afraid or upset to battle someone who hacked them but made them realistic an not all 25+ but i wouldnt be pleased about it...

 

[Parasol Kirby]

My thoughts:

"Fair hacking," even though I frown upon any hacking, is limited to these things:

Hacking event pokemon - it's a pain to get these. In fact, it's impossible for some. Since event pokemon are banished to the uber tier anyway, I don't have a problem with it.

Hacking shinies - Doesn't affect how good the pokemon is at battling or anything, so go ahead. If I find a legit shiny, I'm much, much more proud of that than I would be of a hacked shiny.

Hacking legal EV spreads, gender, and/or nature - It doesn't even take very long to EV train, but if you really hate it, go ahead and hack a legal EV spread. Note that this means putting 255 in all stats is NOT fair hacking. Gender and nature can be achieved by breeding a little bit.

Everything else is off limits. Hacking IVs is cheating, plain and simple. Unlike hacking legal EVs, a normal player can not feasibly achieve perfect IVs, so the hacker is gaining an unfair advantage. I would refuse to play against a player who has done this.

Everything else is off limits? So you wouldn't even like people who hack items?
I agree that hacking perfect IVs is bogus, but I don't agree that hacking IVs in general is wrong. It is possible to control IVs through breeding, if you don't believe me go look at the pokemon that the Smogoners have bred. They usually get about at least 25 in every stat that the pokemon uses (so on a Gyarados this would be HP, Spd, Sp Def, Def, and Atk), often with at least a couple of perfects. Considering this, I don't see anything wrong with hacking your IVs to get IVs around there, why spend +100 hours getting just the right Pokemon? I mean, if you like that kind of thing, go ahead, but after my 300th hour breeding, I got sick of the whole thing.

 

[BeachBoy]

Everything else is off limits? So you wouldn't even like people who hack items?
I agree that hacking perfect IVs is bogus, but I don't agree that hacking IVs in general is wrong. It is possible to control IVs through breeding, if you don't believe me go look at the pokemon that the Smogoners have bred. They usually get about at least 25 in every stat that the pokemon uses (so on a Gyarados this would be HP, Spd, Sp Def, Def, and Atk), often with at least a couple of perfects. Considering this, I don't see anything wrong with hacking your IVs to get IVs around there, why spend +100 hours getting just the right Pokemon? I mean, if you like that kind of thing, go ahead, but after my 300th hour breeding, I got sick of the whole thing.

Ahh the other side of the arguement, so ivs with over 25 if fine, and perfect is bogus, so do you avoid 31s?

Thats what i meant its possible to get most of them 31, you see it all over smog and stuff. So time was your factor into the whole thing ey?
thanks for your opinion.

 

[Parasol Kirby]

I figure that hacking for Smogon-esque IVs is just as fair as breeding, but faster. So ya it comes down to me being lazy. :p

 

[BeachBoy]

I figure that hacking for Smogon-esque IVs is just as fair as breeding, but faster. So ya it comes down to me being lazy. :p

mmmm, ok so in terms of fair hacking
say this 31/26/27/25/20/31 is fair, and 31 straight is off limits...

So in fair hacking just below perfect is 'OK' and perfect isnt, correct?

Others who arnt hackers, would 31/26/27/25/20/31 be fair hacking in your eyes?

 

[FourFourTwo]

Others who arnt hackers, would 31/26/27/25/20/31 be fair hacking in your eyes?

Absolutely not. I'm not a serious battler/breeder, but I certainly would not want to battle someone who hacked their IVs to be above average/below perfect. It gives an unfair advantage to people who just want to have fun, or don't want to breed a million eggs, and also to those who DO spend that much time breeding.

 

[BeachBoy]

Absolutely not. I'm not a serious battler/breeder, but I certainly would not want to battle someone who hacked their IVs to be above average/below perfect. It gives an unfair advantage to people who just want to have fun, or don't want to breed a million eggs, and also to those who DO spend that much time breeding.

True we do work our croissants off, I'm torn, should I accept fair hackers and be open to more possibly challenging battle, or stay with no hackers allowd at all...

FourFourtwo, if you were to battle someone you hacks IVs, were would tyou draw the line, like 20-?

 

[FourFourTwo]

I still think 20 is too much. Think about it. Lets say you're going against a very good physical attacking pokemon, like marowak with 10 IV in attack. And the hacker puts in a chansey with 20 IV in defense. That chansey would usually get killed. It makes a huge difference. But with those IVs, and possible EVs, it could stand against a marowak, you know?

 

[Parasol Kirby]

The reason I said Smogon-ish IVs are fine is because I asked myself, "When will the IVs be so high that I'm at an advantage?" And I answered that with the Smogon IVs. I figured if I'm fighting anyone who doesn't have comparable IVs, they probably don't even bother (or hardly bother) with breeding, and even if I didn't hack I'd probably be at an advantage just because I'd have the right natures!

I've noticed that the best argument that anti-hackers can come up with is that "They don't feel 'special' when you hack" or "I worked +1,000 hours getting my Pokemon, so you should too", etc. Clearly these arguments don't hold water, and I'm fine if you don't want to battle me since I hack, just don't label it as evil 'cause we don't have that many hours to just play Pokemon.

EDIT: I actually run 31s in my "used" stats, as in the one's I put EVs in, as the Smogoners usually have that in the "important" stats. Then I run 15s in the others. Unless I need a certain HP, but then I keep it as close to those numbers as possible, so sometimes I'll have only 30s or 14s.

 

[FourFourTwo]

Oh, its nothing about being evil, you also have to consider that we don't really have access to IV battles to check, or rare candies. Natures is a different thing. I do breed for natures, its quite easy, but IVs are not easy at all to get/control/check

 

[Parasol Kirby]

Rare candies are really easy actually, just have a high level Linoone picking them up, or better yet clone them on Emerald.

But again, your argument is just that we shouldn't hack because you spend forever getting your pokemon, so we should too right?

 

[~Swish~]

Some good, well thought out posts and responses here, well done PC! ^^

Anyway to add my 2 cents to the debate.

I myself do not hack, and never will hack. Though I get frustrated with the hours of breeding, the satisfaction I get from finding that close to perfect Pokemon that is completely 100% mine and 100% legit. Not a manufactured Pokemon from a device. I just don't think I could take satisfaction from winning a battle with perfect Pokemon from a device. As for battling someone who uses these Pokemon, I don't have too much of a problem with it. It's them who have to live with it I guess.

As for hacking items and TMs, this I have no problem with. When breeding I sometimes would like that rare candy cheat to check my Pokemon's IVs without having to battle with someone or put it in the Daycare for some time. XD But I will resist the temptation.

 

[Parasol Kirby]

Wait, who's this PC character?

 

[AluminumKnight]

Hacking items/TMs is fine. Heck, I clone TMs and Leftovers and stuff on Emerald. That's pretty much the same thing.

As for where to draw the line on hacked IVs, I honestly don't know. Those Smogon-esque IVs are extremely hard and take a long time to obtain, and you being able to obtain them in seconds doesn't quite seem fair to me. Doesn't that seem unfair to you, too?

You say, "Oh, but I don't have thousands of hours to spend on pokemon." So what? What about, say, being good at a sport? Wouldn't it be cheating if there were some magical cheating device to make you good (note, not the best, but good) at soccer so that you could play in competitive leagues? You don't have time to work out and train for soccer? Fine, then you won't ever get very good at it.

 

[Valkyrie90]

I love Pokesav! It's so awesome to be able to make Pokemon you want to play online with in a matter of seconds instead of going through all that boring breeding and training! :D :P :P :D

 

[~Swish~]

Hacking items/TMs is fine. Heck, I clone TMs and Leftovers and stuff on Emerald. That's pretty much the same thing.

As for where to draw the line on hacked IVs, I honestly don't know. Those Smogon-esque IVs are extremely hard and take a long time to obtain, and you being able to obtain them in seconds doesn't quite seem fair to me. Doesn't that seem unfair to you, too?

You say, "Oh, but I don't have thousands of hours to spend on pokemon." So what? What about, say, being good at a sport? Wouldn't it be cheating if there were some magical cheating device to make you good (note, not the best, but good) at soccer so that you could play in competitive leagues? You don't have time to work out and train for soccer? Fine, then you won't ever get very good at it.

Couldn't have summed it up better myself. I think that was a really good analogy to how I feel about the subject as well. Illegal performance enhancing drugs for Pokemon XD

I love Pokesav! It's so awesome to be able to make Pokemon you want to play online with in a matter of seconds instead of going through all that boring breeding and training! :D :P :P :D

An example of the type of trainer many of us attempt and don't always suceed to avoid.