First RMT on Pokecommunity!

[Lost_Heart]

Forget it, here is my proper team.

Gyarados@Leftovers
Adamant
212 HP / 16 ATK / 180 DEF / 100 SP. DEF

Waterfall
Stone Edge
Dragon Dance
Taunt

Standard Gyara Lead.

Breloom@Toxic Orb
Adamant
252 ATK / 216 SPD / 40 HP
Poison Heal

Focus Punch
Substitute
Seed Bomb
Spore

Sub-Punch Breloom with Seed Bomb over Leech Seed. You would be surprised how often a second STAB attack somes in handy. Switches in on status nicely.

Donphan@Leftovers
Impish
252 HP / 220 DEF / 36 ATK

Earthquake
Ice Shard
Rapid Spin
Stealth Rock

Spinner, Physical Wall and SR setter. Ice Shard 2HKO's min 4 HP Garchomp.

Celebi@Leftovers
Bold
252 HP / 216 DEF / 40 SPD / 4 SP. DEF

Heal Bell
Perish Song
Grass Knot
Recover

Cleric and Psuedo-Phazer. This loves those Bulky Waters like Swampy.

Blissey@Leftovers
Bold
252 HP / 212 SP. DEF / 44 DEF
Natural Cure

Wish
Protect
Seismic Toss
Ice Beam

Wish Bliss. Seismic Toss is the obligatory 100HP Damage, Ice Beam for dragons and the likes of Duggy. 2HKO's all 4x Weak Dragons and Duggy with those EV's.

Heatran@Choice Scarf
Modest
252 SP. ATK / 232 SPD / 24 HP

Fire Blast
Earthpower
Explosion
Hidden Power [Ice]

Special Sweeper. Very standard, yet very effective. Takes fire attacks to Celebi and laughs in the face of the opponent.

Ok, there is my true team, that other one was lol to be honest.

 

[Anti]

Ok, here is my current team that has done fairly good on Shoddy.

Swampert@Leftovers
Relaxed
240 HP / 212 DEF / 56 SP. ATK

Hydro Pump
Stealth Rock / Roar
Ice Beam
Earthquake

Ok, this leading just rocks. Hydro Pump 2HKO's Hippowdon and Tyranitar, Hidden Power 1HKO's standard Bulkydos, Ice Beam for Dragons if they wanna switch in, and the last slot is the problem. Hammer Arm takes care of Weavile, Stealth Rock is nice to set up. Earthquake gives STAB if I want to go that way.

Sorry but your calcs are wrong. Hippowdon does not survive Hydro Pump...like...ever. also HP Electric is a 2HKO.

Using stuff just to beat other leads will become a dead weight really quickly. HP electric is ONLY useful for gyarados and is pretty meh, I would not use it. In fact, HP electric is kind of useless on Swampert considering its other options. Run the standard since it actually works.

Weezing@BlackSludge
Bold
252 HP / 252 DEF / 6 SP. DEF

Flamethrower / Sludge Bomb / Haze
Thunderbolt
Pain Split
Will-o-Wisp

Heracross counter and Levitater. Will-o-Wisp is on standby because a Guts Boosted CBHera Stone Edge does a minimum of 50% Damage, so I would need to be lucky to be able to switch in and KO with Fire Blast. Haze is for the likes of SD Weavile and such.

Um, why were you running HP Electric on Swampert when this counters Gyarados?

Fire Blast is honestly terrible on Weezing, wh ois supposed to wall things, and using moves with 8 PP and 85 accuracy will not help.

Lucario@LifeOrb
Adamant
252 ATK / 252 DEF / 6 HP
Inner Focus

Swords Dance
Close Combat
Extremespeed
Crunch

This has swept so many teams. Close Combat is self explanitory. Extremespeed allows me to kill many of the frail sweepers like Infernape. Crunch hits Dusknoir and Cresselia, with the first a guaranteed OHKO after a SD, and the later a possible KO, depending on the Physical Bulkyness.

Hooray!

Azelf@ExpertBelt
Timid
252 SP. ATK / 252 SPD / 6 HP

Psychic
Nasty Plot
Flamethrower
Grass Knot

Outspeeds and kills Infernape. Nasty Plot Azelf rocks.

Without its STAB move...not so much.

Blissey@Leftovers
Calm
148 HP / 252 DEF / 108 SP. DEF
ZOMG NATURAL CURE LOL

Seismic Toss
Softboiled
Flamethrower / Toxic
Aromatherapy

Special Wall. I don't normally run Flamethrower, but with Swampert being more reliable in regards to taking hits from Dragons, I gave Flamethrower a try. With Aromatherapy, I am unsure if I need Natural Cure. A 20% Burn Rate or 60% Burn rate using Serene Grace can severly damage any physical attackers wanting to come in. Heracross may pose a problem, so I need some advice on that thanks.

The natural cure deal was a joke.

Though you should use Natural cure. If Blissey comes in to aroma off a few thunder waves and gets hit with Toxic but must switch out, it will give other things a good chance (even special attackers like Azelf) of beating down on Blissey.

Fire blast is useless and I'm not a huge fan of Flamethrower. Toxic Bliss is great though.

Ninjask@LiechiBerry / Petaya Berry
Jolly
252 SPD / 252 HP / 6 ATK

Substitute
Baton Pass
X-Scissor
Protect

Can pass either an attack boost of a special attack boost depending on what I want. Sub-Berry works better than focus sash any day. I don't know if Azelf and Lucario need the stat ups with this here, but in the case it is killed, I have them there in case.

With no rapid spinner this is a bad idea to run >.>

Comments and crap in bold.

Generally an okay team that has a few really nagging weaknesses. Weavile will put a beating down on you, and even Weezing has a really tough time dealing with it. Swampert gets crushed.

 

[Lost_Heart]

Stone Edge on Swampert perhaps, and I can switch Ninjask out, I don't really care for it much. Azelf does have it's STAB, I cannot see what you meant there.

 

[Anti]

I was referring to the fact that you had HP fighting as an option to replace it.

Stone edge is also pretty much junk on Swampert, but I reiterate...you already counter Gyarados :/ I don't see why you're obsessing over beating something you already can beat.

IT seems like you've already made some changes :0

 

[Lost_Heart]

Ah yea, sorry. Only really because of Gyara when it leads. I suppose I can ditch Stone Edge for Curse/Hammer Arm.

 

[Anti]

Hydro Pump/Ice Beam/EQ/SR or Roar is the best Swampert I've used.

Also Spikes over Light Screen on forretress.

 

[Lost_Heart]

Ok, there is my proper team. Currently 37-1.

 

[flamehaze94]

For Celebi, your EVs add up to 512

 

[Arcknight316]

You're one of the best newbies in PC (no offense, it's actually a compliment lol).

IMO, Donphan really isn't a good Physical wall unless it could heal. You need more Physical Wall ability. IMO, you don't need a Rapid Spinner that much. Only Gyara is weak to SR. May I suggest Hippo?

 

[Dark Azelf]

You're one of the best newbies in PC (no offense, it's actually a compliment lol).

IMO, Donphan really isn't a good Physical wall unless it could heal. You need more Physical Wall ability. IMO, you don't need a Rapid Spinner that much. Only Gyara is weak to SR. May I suggest Hippo?

If he doesnt have a spinner, Toxic Spikes, Spikes and along with Stealth Rock sandstorm/Hail abuse as of late, begins to add up and it really wastes you, believe me, i didnt used to run a spinner and it was hell.

Hes not a newbie btw lol its Tortured_Soul =p


Whats with the sp.def evs on gyarados ?? Put those 100 speed evs in speed please.


Edit: He also has wish support for donphans recovery move.

 

[Anti]

Um why make an alt. account? People like to confuse me I swear >.>

Honestly this team isn't amazing. Skarmory WILL wall this team with Heatran gone and can compete with and stall Blissey, especially ones with Seismic Toss (and Flamethrower gets a taste of PP stalling) Gliscor is similar in this only you have a fair shot with Gyarados which is okay.

Also Heatran will be a lot of trouble. It will let Skarm bait out Fire Blast from Scarf Heatran (which isn't very good in all honesty) and lets Heatran start KOing stuff like crazy.

Also Donphan, without reliable recovery, is leaving a gaping hole open to Garchomp sweeps and Tar and Sala aren't far behind. You can wishpass but Blissey is really goign to have trouble coming in on Garchomp or any other physical menace.

Also Weavile can KO about everything. You can say Gyarados but really, SR takes 25% of its healt hand it can't heal. stone edge loves to miss as well and might not even get the chance to do that.

In general this team relies too much on Blissey. As in if Dugtrio shows up you could be in trouble because it can slay Blissey and then it's all over. It isn't the overreliance for special walling more as that everything relies on Wish support which I guarentee will not work.

Also if you run Flamethrower on Blissey Raikou will 6-0 your team while running Seismic Toss means skarmory runs you out of town. your choice.

 

[Lost_Heart]

Um why make an alt. account? People like to confuse me I swear >.>

Honestly this team isn't amazing. Skarmory WILL wall this team with Heatran gone and can compete with and stall Blissey, especially ones with Seismic Toss (and Flamethrower gets a taste of PP stalling) Gliscor is similar in this only you have a fair shot with Gyarados which is okay.

Will wall with Heatran gone... Heatran isn't meant to be gone. :P What I mean is, our last argument was about me saying you don't want Salamence to die, or else this happens, but your statement was... "Who is going to let mence die anyway?" Similar situation here.

Also Heatran will be a lot of trouble. It will let Skarm bait out Fire Blast from Scarf Heatran (which isn't very good in all honesty) and lets Heatran start KOing stuff like crazy.

No, Flash Fire raises only Fire moves (Which i'm sure you know), so if they decided to Earth Power my Heatran, it won't be any different. The only way they will be able to use the boost is the Fire Blast, which doesn't bother me.

Also Donphan, without reliable recovery, is leaving a gaping hole open to Garchomp sweeps and Tar and Sala aren't far behind. You can wishpass but Blissey is really goign to have trouble coming in on Garchomp or any other physical menace.

I'm pretty sure Azelf covered most of this with his very similar team. What Donphan cannot switch into Gyarados does. Blissey walls Specsmence, but I think Seismic Toss/Ice Beam is in order though. Tyranitar isn't a problem for Gyara after it switches, and neither is Garchomp. The only true damage on Donphan is Outrage, and Heatran switches in on that anyway.

Also Weavile can KO about everything. You can say Gyarados but really, SR takes 25% of its healt hand it can't heal. stone edge loves to miss as well and might not even get the chance to do that.

Donphan using Rapid Spin is the whole point of the matter. Please don't suggest Earthquake over Stone Edge, Stone Edge is a far better option in my opinion, and has served me far better.

In general this team relies too much on Blissey. As in if Dugtrio shows up you could be in trouble because it can slay Blissey and then it's all over. It isn't the overreliance for special walling more as that everything relies on Wish support which I guarentee will not work.

No it doesn't. Dugtrio isn't going to be doing all that much with Ice Beam and Wish/Protect. It doesn't 1HKO Bliss I believe, so even if I have to, PP stall it I can. As you said, Stone Edge loves to miss, so after Earthquake is gone, along with STAB, it doesn't matter really.

Also if you run Flamethrower on Blissey Raikou will 6-0 your team while running Seismic Toss means skarmory runs you out of town. your choice.

Thanks on this, Ice Beam/Seismic Toss goes over Flamethrower/Toxic now.

Yeah, I'm not too overlly concerned other than for Duggy, but really, it cannot 1HKO Celebi or 1HKO Blissey. Killing Heatran is an only problem, but an Earthquake is must, so in comes Gyara to DD on the switch. Choice Scarf = Fail, Life Orb doesn't 1HKO with Stone Edge on Gyara, and Choice Band = Must Switch.

Regards,

~L_H

 

[Anti]

Your Blissey didn't have Ice Beam when I rated that so how you can use that to argue against me makes no sense. Given the Flamethrower set, Dugtrio WILL be a problem.

Dugtrio isn't just going to come in on a full health wishbliss. Umlike the standard, Wish Blissey cannot instantly heal and will have trouble keeping its HP up (though it usually won't faint), but when Dugtrio comes in, it's a whole other story.

Also TTar will absolutely swallow Gyarados with STAB Stone Edge. Garchomp can SD while Gyara switches in and inflict some serious hurt with STAB Dragon Claw.

Also Heatran is a bad pokemon to rely on because of its gaping weaknesses to co many common attack types. Choice Scarf doesn't help, as you rely on it to counter so much. When you're trapped on Earth Power and Skarmory comes in, you bet it's going to lay down a few layers of spikes before Heatran can come back in and scare it off. Also Dugtrio can trap it and kill it and random Focus Punches will also drown Heatran. While playing Heatran correctly will greatly reduce the risk, it is VERY hard to keep a Choiced Heatran alive while relying on it to counter so much.

And denying you don't over rely on Blissey is a joke in my mind. Allow me to show you what I mean.

If Blissey dies you team has absolutely no way of dealing with any special attackers, period. Donphan loses its recovery and becomes obsolete and you'll find about half the things previously countered will be a huge problem.

Your team isn't Dugtrio weak per se, but Dugtrio can totally put this team out of commission when player correctly and will end this team. Really, there's no denying that.

Also you don't have a safe switch on Mixed Infernape and Physical Infernape with Spikes support will also win.

That being said, I'm going to go ahead and say Breloom probably can be on its way out and put something in there that covers these weaknesses.

Also playing guessing games with Gyarados and Donphan won't work if you're outpredicted, and you can't expect to win at prediction every time. Take Rhyperior for example, a CB Stone edge hurts Gyara a lot (I think it might OHKO :0) while STAB Earthquake will do a ton to Donphan.

You replacement should be something that can help out from both sides of the attacking spectrum. For example, Dusknoir can switch into a fair amount of things and helps a lot with a fighting immunity for blissey. though for this team I actualyl wouldn't recommend it, it was an example.

The replacement should take off that reliance on Blissey this team obviously has. That way if dugtrio shows up (or even worse, if something like exploding Gengar shows up and beats Blissey by surprise) you aren't totally over.

Also my constant references to Dugtrio in all the threads lately is basically saying that if something shows up that beats blissey, uh oh. In that regard I think a special tank would be really awesome in the last slot.

EDIT: Also nobody runs Scarf Dugtrio and those who do are truly incompetent or know nothing about Dugtrio. If it kills Blissey, it doesn't matter what you come in and do to it since its purpose has been served.

 

[Arcknight316]

If he doesnt have a spinner, Toxic Spikes, Spikes and along with Stealth Rock sandstorm/Hail abuse as of late, begins to add up and it really wastes you, believe me, i didnt used to run a spinner and it was hell.

Hes not a newbie btw lol its Tortured_Soul =p


Whats with the sp.def evs on gyarados ?? Put those 100 speed evs in speed please.


Edit: He also has wish support for donphans recovery move.

It's not my fault he "left" and started again lol (going as far as saying, "This is my first RMT here!"). Oh well. To avoid humiliation, let's pretend he's a newbie.

HP Ice MSZappy rapes all but Heatran.

 

[Faceless*]

A slightly frightening Gyarados weakness, keep Celebi alive if they happen to hold one.

 

[Lost_Heart]

Your Blissey didn't have Ice Beam when I rated that so how you can use that to argue against me makes no sense. Given the Flamethrower set, Dugtrio WILL be a problem.

Dugtrio isn't just going to come in on a full health wishbliss. Umlike the standard, Wish Blissey cannot instantly heal and will have trouble keeping its HP up (though it usually won't faint), but when Dugtrio comes in, it's a whole other story.

Also TTar will absolutely swallow Gyarados with STAB Stone Edge. Garchomp can SD while Gyara switches in and inflict some serious hurt with STAB Dragon Claw.

Also Heatran is a bad pokemon to rely on because of its gaping weaknesses to co many common attack types. Choice Scarf doesn't help, as you rely on it to counter so much. When you're trapped on Earth Power and Skarmory comes in, you bet it's going to lay down a few layers of spikes before Heatran can come back in and scare it off. Also Dugtrio can trap it and kill it and random Focus Punches will also drown Heatran. While playing Heatran correctly will greatly reduce the risk, it is VERY hard to keep a Choiced Heatran alive while relying on it to counter so much.

And denying you don't over rely on Blissey is a joke in my mind. Allow me to show you what I mean.

If Blissey dies you team has absolutely no way of dealing with any special attackers, period. Donphan loses its recovery and becomes obsolete and you'll find about half the things previously countered will be a huge problem.

Your team isn't Dugtrio weak per se, but Dugtrio can totally put this team out of commission when player correctly and will end this team. Really, there's no denying that.

Also you don't have a safe switch on Mixed Infernape and Physical Infernape with Spikes support will also win.

That being said, I'm going to go ahead and say Breloom probably can be on its way out and put something in there that covers these weaknesses.

Also playing guessing games with Gyarados and Donphan won't work if you're outpredicted, and you can't expect to win at prediction every time. Take Rhyperior for example, a CB Stone edge hurts Gyara a lot (I think it might OHKO :0) while STAB Earthquake will do a ton to Donphan.

You replacement should be something that can help out from both sides of the attacking spectrum. For example, Dusknoir can switch into a fair amount of things and helps a lot with a fighting immunity for blissey. though for this team I actualyl wouldn't recommend it, it was an example.

The replacement should take off that reliance on Blissey this team obviously has. That way if dugtrio shows up (or even worse, if something like exploding Gengar shows up and beats Blissey by surprise) you aren't totally over.

Also my constant references to Dugtrio in all the threads lately is basically saying that if something shows up that beats blissey, uh oh. In that regard I think a special tank would be really awesome in the last slot.

EDIT: Also nobody runs Scarf Dugtrio and those who do are truly incompetent or know nothing about Dugtrio. If it kills Blissey, it doesn't matter what you come in and do to it since its purpose has been served.

You are simply stating the obvious. Of course if Blissey dies I will have no means of Special Walling, because it is my special wall. I was not having a go at you in any way, and what I mean by my use of Ice Beam is that you pointed out the use, so it will now be added, and I have now countered certain problems you showed.

You are giving double standards again. If Gyarados is switching into Garchomp, it will be on Earthquake to Heatran. The only way it can outspeed Heatran's HP ICE is to have a Scarf of its own, thereby there will be no Swords Dance. Your theory on Skarmory is poor. I obviously know that if Skarm comes in it will Spike, so in comes Donphan to Rapid Spin. You are basing arguments on "what if's" which was my point to you, but you liked to dismiss that. Your statement on "Random Focus Punches" is just that, random. Along with your exploding Gengar crap. There is no way you can completely halt an Exploding Gengar. There is no way you can know it will explode until it does, at which point it is too late. Seriously, you keep trying to find flaws but open up larger ones in yours...

I like your point on a Special Tank, but what "last slot" are you referring to? Which pokemon is taken out exactly?

~L_H