Hack of the Month discussion

[ItWasABadDream]

How can something that nobody has played yet possibly win a Hack of the Month award?

 

[Spherical Ice]

How can something that nobody has played yet possibly win a Hack of the Month award?

Unfortunately the infrequency of hacks with releases means that Hack of the Month won't always have candidates with releases. The Hack of the Month is decided by members voting for one of three hacks nominated. I hope that clears things up.

 

[Alexander Nicholi]

Unfortunately the infrequency of hacks with releases means that Hack of the Month won't always have candidates with releases. The Hack of the Month is decided by members voting for one of three hacks nominated. I hope that clears things up.

What infrequency? Plenty of hacks have releases. The second sentence is more or less irrelevant.

It's starting to become really obvious that you guys don't care about proper qualifications for popularity contests with the hacks. Most of us would concur that a release, any release, something, is better than a storyline and a load of screenshots. It's really unfair to those of us who have put out a little work and proven that we're trying to be put up against some hack we can't even play at all - having our existing hack put up against another project's screenshots basically.

It's not a fair contest if you ask me.

 

[Joel16]

While I highly support Pokemon Dark Crystal, I must agree with @Nick on this one.

 

[Spherical Ice]

What infrequency?

Name three hacks that have not already been put up for nomination in Hack of the Month in the last three months in Progressing Hacks forum that have a release? Seeing as we've always said we encourage user nominations (and very rarely, if ever, get any), I'd love to hear your input.

The second sentence is more or less irrelevant.

I fail to see how a literal description of a contest is irrelevant when discussing what the contest is.

It's starting to become really obvious that you guys don't care about proper qualifications for popularity contests with the hacks.

What metrics do you suggest we measure them by? I fail to see why allowing hacks with no release a chance for exposure and recognition is somehow some grand act of injustice against the greater community.

Most of us would concur that a release, any release, something, is better than a storyline and a load of screenshots.

So by this logic a hack with zero effort put in that has a release should automatically be given greater credit simply because it is playable? Does that not discourage hackers taking their time with releases and making a polish product?

It's really unfair to those of us who have put out a little work and proven that we're trying to be put up against some hack we can't even play at all - having our existing hack put up against another project's screenshots basically.

It's not a fair contest if you ask me.

It would not be a fair contest if we were pitting a hack with a release against two with none, but seeing as none of the hacks up for nomination in the Hack of the Month for September had releases, I fail to see why that is in any way unjust. If, like I mentioned earlier, you feel like a hack deserves to be nominated, then suggest them.

 

[Alexander Nicholi]

Name three hacks that have not already been put up for nomination in Hack of the Month in the last three months in Progressing Hacks forum that have a release? Seeing as we've always said we encourage user nominations (and very rarely, if ever, get any), I'd love to hear your input.

lol

It would not be a fair contest if we were pitting a hack with a release against two with none, but seeing as none of the hacks up for nomination in the Hack of the Month for September had releases, I fail to see why that is in any way unjust. If, like I mentioned earlier, you feel like a hack deserves to be nominated, then suggest them.

Yeah, um... you don't shove the responsibility of making good content in your section on those who are questioning the quality of the content. That's the equivalent of me saying something like "hey Store Manager, these eggs aren't to my satisfaction. Please make something better," to which you're responding, "if you don't like it, make your own eggs!" ...We don't owe you anything for asking for quality content here in the forum.

I fail to see how a literal description of a contest is irrelevant when discussing what the contest is.

It's kinda stating the obvious bro, but whatevs

What metrics do you suggest we measure them by? I fail to see why allowing hacks with no release a chance for exposure and recognition is somehow some grand act of injustice against the greater community.

So by this logic a hack with zero effort put in that has a release should automatically be given greater credit simply because it is playable? Does that not discourage hackers taking their time with releases and making a polish product?

I knew you'd take this route of reason. See, the thing is, this is a contest. When you're running a contest, a level playing field obviously trumps a comfortable playing field. Am I wrong? The fact of the matter is, you're allowing the comparison of oranges and orange peelings in the contests as if proof of work didn't matter. We're comparing hacks, and while I'm not trying to question any sort of legitimacy behind them, it'd be nice to know they existed in some form. :/

Like Joel said earlier, I do think Dark Twilight is a great hack and am not begrudging it winning at all. But other than Eclipse every winner of HotM since May has lacked a release last I checked.

 

[Mana1]

But its oranges and oranges? Spherical and Christos make sure that all hacks running for the month are of equal merit. His post clarifies that too - as often as possible the hacks running either all have releases, or none have releases.

I'm sure when Spherical asked for recommendations you looked and realised how few progressing hacks have releases? Let along significant, playable releases.

 

[Spherical Ice]

lol

I'll take that as a concession that you're wrong and there actually is an infrequency of hacks with releases?

Yeah, um... you don't shove the responsibility of making good content in your section on those who are questioning the quality of the content.

We haven't done that, though. We've nominated hacks for Hack of the Month because there have been no nominations; we've done our job. You were saying that our nominations were bad, in which case I'm open for suggestions (to which your response of choice is "lol").

That's the equivalent of me saying something like "hey Store Manager, these eggs aren't to my satisfaction. Please make something better," to which you're responding, "if you don't like it, make your own eggs!" ...We don't owe you anything for asking for quality content here in the forum.

No, it's like you saying "hey Store Manager, these eggs aren't the eggs I want" to which I respond "we can order in your preferred eggs if you want, what type do you prefer" to which you reply "lol". It's a bad analogy, basically.

I never said you owed me anything, I'm saying that I would appreciate suggestions: I personally find no fault with how Hack of the Month is being run now, so if you take issue with it then you're going to have to formulate your concerns a little more constructively.

It's kinda stating the obvious bro, but whatevs

I was answering an obvious question.

I knew you'd take this route of reason.

That's generally how discussions go, yes.

See, the thing is, this is a contest. When you're running a contest, a level playing field obviously trumps a comfortable playing field. Am I wrong?

No, which is why the Hack of the Month which Dark Crystal won literally was a level playing field: none of the nominees had releases.

The fact of the matter is, you're allowing the comparison of oranges and orange peelings in the contests as if proof of work didn't matter. We're comparing hacks, and while I'm not trying to question any sort of legitimacy behind them, it'd be nice to know they existed in some form. :/

Maybe you're just too sceptical? I personally don't see why people would dedicate their time faking screenshots to win internet competitions. Of course, you may be right. If you find that a hacker has doctored screenshots, feel free to notify us and we can disqualify them from the contest. Otherwise, there's not much else we can do. If we limit HotM to just hacks with releases, it will either have the same three hacks every month and then they will all have won by some point and there will be no contest anymore. Is that the better alternative?

Like Joel said earlier, I do think Dark Twilight is a great hack and am not begrudging it winning at all. But other than Eclipse every winner of HotM since May has lacked a release last I checked.

I cannot control how the community votes. However, it's worth noting that while what you've said is true, Hack of the Month for September had hacks with no releases, so was a level playing field. Hack of the Month for August had two hacks with releases and one hack without a release. The hack without a release won, even though according to your logic it is an orange peel that should've been received worse. Again, I cannot control the way the community votes. Hack of the Month for June had three hacks with a release, so of course the winner had a release. Hack of the Month for July was different in that it was a nomination round, and the eligible hacks nominated all had releases.

 

[Alexander Nicholi]

I'll take that as a concession that you're wrong and there actually is an infrequency of hacks with releases?

We haven't done that, though. We've nominated hacks for Hack of the Month because there have been no nominations; we've done our job. You were saying that our nominations were bad, in which case I'm open for suggestions (to which your response of choice is "lol").

No, it's like you saying "hey Store Manager, these eggs aren't the eggs I want" to which I respond "we can order in your preferred eggs if you want, what type do you prefer" to which you reply "lol". It's a bad analogy, basically.

I never said you owed me anything, I'm saying that I would appreciate suggestions: I personally find no fault with how Hack of the Month is being run now, so if you take issue with it then you're going to have to formulate your concerns a little more constructively.

I was answering an obvious question.

That's generally how discussions go, yes.

No, which is why the Hack of the Month which Dark Crystal won literally was a level playing field: none of the nominees had releases.

Maybe you're just too sceptical? I personally don't see why people would dedicate their time faking screenshots to win internet competitions. Of course, you may be right. If you find that a hacker has doctored screenshots, feel free to notify us and we can disqualify them from the contest. Otherwise, there's not much else we can do. If we limit HotM to just hacks with releases, it will either have the same three hacks every month and then they will all have won by some point and there will be no contest anymore. Is that the better alternative?

K bro, you believe what you wanna believe. If it's any consolation most of us think the contest is **** anyways, but it's being run perfectly fine and is 100% fair and totally not run too often or anything so ok :)

Sounds like you can't process criticism from me effectively as you just spent time talking about my skepticism towards hacks when I just said that I'm not questioning their legitimacy. Ok

But its oranges and oranges? Spherical and Christos make sure that all hacks running for the month are of equal merit. His post clarifies that too - as often as possible the hacks running either all have releases, or none have releases.

I'm sure when Spherical asked for recommendations you looked and realised how few progressing hacks have releases? Let along significant, playable releases.

No, it's not quite oranges to oranges. Secondly, that's an appeal to the moderators' authority which, despite them possessing responsibility of judgment in conflict and management, it's still not a valid basis for what's fair in a contest. Besides, clearly we have some people questioning whether that's really fair, why don't you hear them out?

 

[BadEgg~]

It would be nice if we were able to play the so-called "Hacks of the month", in my opinion. You can get a lot of attention from the community by winning this contest, even if you don't have any solid gameplay down. That's why people will 'fake' (or rather, set-up) screenshots to enter the contest. If the game looks good, people will be more likely to vote for it, because that is all they have to go by. By winning the contest or placing in the top 3, you'll get a lot of attention on a project's page. More likes, more publicity, more success for a hack ultimately (if it is as good as it looks when it is E V E N T U A L L Y released).

ALSO, people can fake screenshots and entire projects to make themselves look better. For example, if I'm working on a another hack, but I want to attract more attention in the community, faking a contest would certainly do that. People may start going "hey this looks pretty awesome, I wonder what else this guy/girl does?"

 

[Mana1]

ALSO, people can fake screenshots and entire projects to make themselves look better. For example, if I'm working on a another hack, but I want to attract more attention in the community, faking a contest would certainly do that. People may start going "hey this looks pretty awesome, I wonder what else this guy/girl does?"

IDK about actual statistics but I don't recall a single hack that was found/confirmed to be fake. Why does not releasing make work less important? Many people don't want to give out a release until they've sorted their dex/graphics/features/2 or 3 gyms progress. At the same time, not many hacks make it to that.

in the perfect world where there's an abundance of hacks I completely agree, but in the current climate its just not possible ><.

 

[Spherical Ice]

If it's any consolation most of us think the contest is **** anyways

Well, if you feel that way I've stated multiple times that I am open to suggestions, but you clearly feel like that is my shirking my responsibilities as a store manager so I'm afraid I'll just have to ask you to find your eggs elsewhere if you refuse to let me help you.

totally not run too often or anything so ok :)

The contest is called Hack of the Month. It is not a replacement for Hack of the Year, which does indeed necessitate a release and is indeed infrequent. Maybe you got confused?

Sounds like you can't process criticism from me effectively as you just spent time talking about my skepticism towards hacks when I just said that I'm not questioning their legitimacy. Ok

To be clear, your criticism was "hacks in Hack of the Month should need releases to be eligible", to which I replied that while that would be nice, there is not enough for that to be viable. You then said that I was wrong, and when I asked for you to back that assertion up, you just brushed it off?

 

[Alexander Nicholi]

The contest is called Hack of the Month. It is not a replacement for Hack of the Year, which does indeed necessitate a release and is indeed infrequent. Maybe you got confused?


To be clear, your criticism was "hacks in Hack of the Month should need releases to be eligible", to which I replied that while that would be nice, there is not enough for that to be viable. You then said that I was wrong, and when I asked for you to back that assertion up, you just brushed it off?

So how about dat Hack of the Quarter? If you have such a shortage of content then you should really consider upping the ante for both competition and quality of these contests. It may do the section some good.

If you're trying to say that HotM happens all too often for us to expect things like real releases and such, then I can understand that. It does bring to light the section's past experiences with basically every hack getting the go-around with HotM and it not really amounting to much in the end.

 

[Spherical Ice]

That's why people will 'fake' (or rather, set-up) screenshots to enter the contest.

If people are faking screenshots, then yes that is totally not okay and we definitely do not condone that. "Setting up" screenshots just sounds like another way of just saying "being good at taking screenshots", though. I also can't think of any cases where this has ever happened, so I'd prefer it if devil's advocacy for the sake of it not be introduced, if only because it can make discerning what a genuine criticism of the contest is a little confusing. I'm sure that wasn't your intention though!

ALSO, people can fake screenshots and entire projects to make themselves look better. For example, if I'm working on a another hack, but I want to attract more attention in the community, faking a contest would certainly do that. People may start going "hey this looks pretty awesome, I wonder what else this guy/girl does?"

To be clear, they absolutely cannot fake screenshots.

 

[Alexander Nicholi]

To be clear, they absolutely cannot fake screenshots.

Hate to be that guy, but they kind of did a while back. I'm sure you remember - at least one of them was undeniably bogus. Strangely enough, that hack won HotM around the same time too!

 

[Circuit]

K bro, you believe what you wanna believe. If it's any consolation most of us think the contest is **** anyways, but it's being run perfectly fine and is 100% fair and totally not run too often or anything so ok :)

Sounds like you can't process criticism from me effectively as you just spent time talking about my skepticism towards hacks when I just said that I'm not questioning their legitimacy. Ok


No, it's not quite oranges to oranges. Secondly, that's an appeal to the moderators' authority which, despite them possessing responsibility of judgment in conflict and management, it's still not a valid basis for what's fair in a contest. Besides, clearly we have some people questioning whether that's really fair, why don't you hear them out?

You're questioning what is fair, but when a legitimate and sound argument is posed towards you, you retaliate in a very defensive manner, which does not include any valid counter-arguments to the points made by your opposition. Now, I'm all one for the community suggesting things that we can do better, or things we can implement to improve the quality of content, but only when that is what happens. So far, all you've done is is insult the moderation and execution of a contest here, and when asked for suggestions to improve the contest, you responded with "lol" and "most of us the the contest is **** anyways". Right, that's not constructive feedback, that is harassment. Either change the way you discuss potential improvements or be quiet. Your comments do not help or change anything.

It would be nice if we were able to play the so-called "Hacks of the month", in my opinion. You can get a lot of attention from the community by winning this contest, even if you don't have any solid gameplay down. That's why people will 'fake' (or rather, set-up) screenshots to enter the contest. If the game looks good, people will be more likely to vote for it, because that is all they have to go by. By winning the contest or placing in the top 3, you'll get a lot of attention on a project's page. More likes, more publicity, more success for a hack ultimately (if it is as good as it looks when it is E V E N T U A L L Y released).

ALSO, people can fake screenshots and entire projects to make themselves look better. For example, if I'm working on a another hack, but I want to attract more attention in the community, faking a contest would certainly do that. People may start going "hey this looks pretty awesome, I wonder what else this guy/girl does?"

And that's why Spherical Ice said that if you notice screenshots that have been plagiarised or doctored, then you should report them, and they can be disqualified from the competition. Another thing is that faking screenshots for some spotlighting and notice will backfire heavily should your game not reach the quality you put out. People will find that your hack was not to the quality you suggested it would be, and as such you would lose a lot of popularity for it.

It's not fair to limit the contest nominees to only those with releases, since as Spherical Ice has pointed out, that is very few of the Hacks for last month at least, and as such would create a very small roster of nominees, which would all very quickly gain a win and the contest would collapse. You're very welcome, as stated, to enter nominees yourself, to help the mods find a suitable winner for the contest. It's not enough to just point out a flaw and it be magically fixed with no input on your behalf. The content and events here on PC are controlled by you, as the users who engage in them. We as mods simply facilitate and organise them. Should something be able to be improved it is up to YOU to point it out to us and tells us how it can be improved. We're NOT omniscient, and it's very insulting to criticise the hard work of someone without telling them how they can improve it. And even then, there are ways to go about it, and not just attack those in the driving seat. Don't be so obnoxious and ignorant.

Rant over.

 

[Spherical Ice]

So how about dat Hack of the Quarter? If you have such a shortage of content then you should really consider upping the ante for both competition and quality of these contests. It may do the section some good.

If you're trying to say that HotM happens all too often for us to expect things like real releases and such, then I can understand that. It does bring to light the section's past experiences with basically every hack getting the go-around with HotM and it not really amounting to much in the end.

I would definitely agree that Hack of the Quarter would be a viable idea to bring back if there were too few hacks to even enter into contests, but you're again insisting that hacks need a release to be eligible. I don't think there's anything wrong with letting hacks without releases get recognition. It has no detriment to the greater community, other than, at worse, encouraging others to work harder to also get noticed.

I also disagree with the notion that "every hack" has Hack of the Month, as there are still quite the significant majority of hacks in Progressing Hacks without it, and it's worth noting we won't even be having Hack of the Month again until January anyway because of Hack of the Year, so there very well may be even more hacks posted in that three or four month gap period anyway.

 

[Alexander Nicholi]

bait

No

(ninja)

I see where you're coming from, and since you simply "don't agree" I don't think there's much to be done.

 

[Spherical Ice]

Hate to be that guy, but they kind of did a while back. I'm sure you remember - at least one of them was undeniably bogus. Strangely enough, that hack won HotM around the same time too!

I'm assuming you're alluding to LIFE? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the "completely bogus" screenshot was just a colour corrected gif?

 

[BadEgg~]

If people are faking screenshots, then yes that is totally not okay and we definitely do not condone that. "Setting up" screenshots just sounds like another way of just saying "being good at taking screenshots", though. I also can't think of any cases where this has ever happened, so I'd prefer it if devil's advocacy for the sake of it not be introduced, if only because it can make discerning what a genuine criticism of the contest is a little confusing. I'm sure that wasn't your intention though!

To be clear, they absolutely cannot fake screenshots.

Ultimately there isn't going to be a perfect system for Hacks of the Month. But I do believe that HOTY entries must have some form of a playable beta that shows enough of the game for the community to make a fair judgement (I haven't read HOTY entry requirements so this may already be the case)