It's not "speculation" and "interpretation" if Blue himself said it, and Professor Oak at the very end of the game chews him out for treating Pokemon badly and not as friends
Arguably, it doesn't mean he hasn't changed since then (gym leaders are generally portrayed as accomplished and kind trainers, usually), but it's not as if this has any relevance to whether Yellow is canon or not. Plus was more talking about that being the reason that he puts his starter to the back of his team, not Blue's personality here.
I haven't called anything a feature since the beginning of this thread. And Red's team is suspect because you can't say it's based on Yellow any more than that it's based on RB... For all we know, my stance that he has all three starters simply as a gesture towards the first generation is equally applicable.
Still mentioned then (and also in that other so-called 'debate' which lead up to this, no?), so doesn't really make it void. Never mind you mentioned features later on in this post anyway...so I can't mention them then? =P And you can, but considering he got all of the starters and a Pikachu canonically according to Yellow and those four Pokemon again return... I'd say it's a pretty large leap to say they weren't based on his Yellow team. That certainly is speculating on 'what if he somehow got those in R/B?', which really is just silly, IMO. =/ It's his Yellow team.
There's only one Rocket in Kanto, and just because the executives became full-fledged characters in HG/SS doesn't mean they weren't around at the time of RB FR/LG.
Nor does it mean that they were - and is again speculation and doesn't really have much bearing on whether Yellow is canon or not as such, anyways given different things already indicate it is. Let's
not go off tangents again, please?
Adding all those plot changes and features would have cost time and money, as well as have been outside the feasible programming realm of the time. Do you realize how badly organized RBY's coding is, and how many lines of code it took to get Pikachu alone to follow the player-character?
The game was advertised as being a game-adaptation of the anime. Just because Game Freak couldn't/didn't fit everything doesn't mean that in-universe the adaptation wouldn't be more parallel.
I know about programming, and it would have been a very minor thing to add, really (and why the bothered with it again in HG/SS). Not to mention that if it were truly based on the anime, then it wouldn't, you know, be based on RB's events to a T, but follow the anime storyline. But no wonder we never, say, saw an Orange Islands - because it is based on RB, or rather, is practically the same as R/B. Advertisement was obvious, because why advertise a game as 'exactly the same as the games you already bought'? No, they'd talk about the new addition, namely having Pikachu follow you. Advertisement of the feature that happens to correspond to the anime so the game could generate more sales, not of the game being based on the anime. There is a difference. After all, looking at the box's blurb:
"You've finally been granted your Pokémon Trainer's license, and now you're on your way to becoming the world's greatest Pokémon Trainer! The shockingly-cute Pikachu tags along behind you as you search the enormous world for monsters to train and evolve. Face off against Blastoise's torrential water cannons. Stand strong when facing Pidgeot's stormy Gust. Develop the ultimate Pokémon strategy to defeat the eight Gym Leaders and become the greatest Pokémon Master of all time!"
Doesn't say anything about it being based on the anime. It instead says 'Pikachu follows you' - something new to grab the attention.
As stated above, we cannot take the superficial screen of a Gameboy game and assume it's exactly the same in-universe. The Special manga fleshes out the Pokemon world in so many ways, clearly illustrating that Kanto and the other regions are far more cultural and large than the game would lead us to believe. In the same way, Yellow must be fleshed out as defined by the anime that it was based off of.
Again, the elements introduced in Yellow can't be taken as canon. The Pokemon games would evolve over time, adding to their technology to keep up with the fanbase. It's ludicrous to suggest that just because Yellow version introduced improved graphics and the concept of a Pokemon following you first that it would have never been done at all. Yellow was simply capitalizing on the success of the anime and improved the game in the same way Blue version did in Japan for Red (JP) and Green. It's a feature showcase.
Then how come is the world of Kanto in Yellow the same as it was in Red/Blue? That suggests it's the same as the RB canon, not the anime. Don't say its because they had no time or anything - there's no proof of that, and if it were based on the anime, it'd have been based off of it, not R/B.
The elements,
maybe not, but then again, GSC and HG/SS says the way the game starts with the starters and the fact you can get the other three can be taken as canon, and I haven't talked about graphics or anything like that proving its canon there. =/ What's with the tangents again?
Sure, it was made to capitalise on the anime's success (and the games' success, let's not forget) but that's pretty different from the whole thing being based on the anime, which it isn't.
The Zelda series all takes place in one world, with two diverging timelines. That does not mean any one game in the series is not canon; they all are. My point in this comparison is the canonicity of a series, not how the inside world is defined.
And my point is they run by different timelines and differ in many aspects of canon to each other.
And here you illustrate my point exactly. The film and game were made by different people, yet are all under the DC Comics label/copyright. If going by txteclipse's idea of canonicity, then both are fully canon in relation to the original novel just because the name Game Freak and Nintendo are on the games... This is hardly substantial, because the name Game Freak and Nintendo are on the anime, the mangas, the Ranger and Dungeon games, the Stadium games, Colosseum, and so on.
And yet, Yellow is not made by different people, and is not in a different medium, like Watchmen, which was the point I was making, rather than agreeing with you? =/ I think you missed it entirely, but in that case there's no point repeating it. In short, your example does not apply to Yellow just on those terms alone, because you're forgetting about how it is made by the same people, in the same medium, with the same game mechanics, etc as RB.
As I said above, Yellow should be assumed to be, in-universe, exactly as the anime it was based on. In fact, in Japan it is considered fan-service... Nothing more.
No, they consider that in the context that it was the fourth game they got, not the third. As bulbapedia (
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pokemon_Yellow) who state that they consider it fanservice - "However, it was criticized as being "just a stopgap to help us wait for the real sequels" and "While Pokémon Yellow is considered to be the "third version" of Generation I in the United States and other non-Japanese countries, it is only considered a fan-service game in Japan. This is because Pokémon Blue was released as a third version in Japan, following the original Pokémon Red and Green. "
Not a world about how the Japanese considered it fan-service because of the anime! No, its because it was another game just like the others they got, and was one more that generation then what everywhere else got. Don't think Ii don't check the reasons behind what they say. As you can see, they did not say it as being service because it was not canon - because it is a canon game.
Don't be facetious. That is clearly a gaming mechanic, a feature.
Obviously sarcasm does not transfer well. Obviously it is - but seeing how similar it is to what I was talking about earlier, how then can one come to the conclusion it isn't canon. Or rather, re-read with sarcasm in that part in mind. Not going to bother copying and pasting.
I already stated above that HG/SS are new canon, and so override any previous assertions... The very fact that they included Eusine effectively canonized Crystal version.
Again this is off the actual debate (but then why no Krys?)
Barely a third of the games on that article were actually made by Game Freak. The rest went out to third part developers and so on. It's simply a list of Pokemon games, and so of course Yellow would be on it.
And hence why Yellow is listed together with the rest of the games made in the Game Boy games accepted as official canon, and the rest is separated from it (such as the GCN games). As games made by Game Freak tend to be accepted as canon, and Yellow falls in that list... well, insert what has been said by myself and others beforehand here.
That's speculation, I should say.
Oh, how amusing. So show me where Red didn't get his Pikachu and three Kanto starters in Yellow, or where he definately got them in Red/Blue. Others have also said it is his Yellow team, and it's very hard to not see the same four Pokemon from Yellow appear in his GSC/HG/SS team. There's no need for fan speculation, as his team for those Yellow-specific combination of Pokemon keep on re-appearing. (And considering you thought it the opposite to begin with means that if that were the case you wouldn't be calling it speculation, I feel, but OH WELL no winning with you, obviously. -_-
If you can't see that, or otherwise are just trying to make it out as incorrect because it inconveniences your argument... well, I'm not bothering anymore anyways, so have fun with that. =) As the first quote in this post says, you say Blue's dialogue and personality cannot be speculation - by that same token, isn't the fact Red has the same four Pokemon in GSC/HG/SS as he did in Yellow - his Pikachu starter and Blastoise/Venasaur/Charizard trio - fact rather than speculation? It's not whether or not he had those Pokemon or not -
he did have them.
Or just look at Myles' post. Which you agreed with. Hmm.
I answered this above. Nothing else was added because it would take too much time and work for very little money in return. And the only way it's "based on" RB is because it uses the same core engine, which is slightly false considering they nearly entirely restructured the coding.
You know this how? You weren't working on the team, were you? Normally they spend years anyway and never rush things (look at how there's a good half year minimum between HG/SS's Japan release and the vague date of Spring 2010 for America! or the far longer gap for GSC) so there was not that much of a matter of having to rush about. The GB would have waited, and if they really wanted they could have delayed to make it GSC only as well.
And they nearly entirely restructured the coding? Then there's even less reason for them to stick to RB? It's not "based on" RB by the way - it is based on RB, or more so is RB with a few small differences, some treated with importance in that they are continued in future games.
Ruby and Sapphire are alternate canons, in which the respective team of each game takes dominance over the other. Emerald is a more true canon than these two because it attempted to reconcile the events into one timeline.
Whoopee. Not going to bother saying anything more as said before - outside the thread topic.
You seem to have a very close-minded idea of what "canon" is. It can't all be canon. It contradicts. It retcons. The main handheld games are a distinct canon, constantly reworking themselves, with the remakes forming new canon that overwrites the old and the third games of each generation either being alternate canon or new canon.
Ah, but very minorly. As you said, your 'version' of canon is one that 'Canon is a series of events in a fictional world that reference each other with little to no inconsistencies, and based on a common foundation.' - the 'little' inconsistencies are what make up the differences between Yellow and RB - they are little! And don't affect the important part - the storyline itself! Maybe to you it is closed mind, because you disagree. In that case, let me say because you disagree with mine, your one is close-minded.
So... you see what calling other people's ideas close-minded does? Not very much, really, as they same can be said as well if said person in turn doesn't agree with your definition. Leave those comments out in future, as it doesn't really help. At any rate, a game made by the same people, in the same medium, with the same gameplay, with the same plot, setting, and many other things as other official ones makes it canon for myself, and as other places suggest, and other people say, for them as well. I can't say more than that - if you keep thinking we're wrong, keep thinking that, by all means.
The fact that Game Freak uses features from previous games does not render those games canon... For all we know Satoshi Tajiri pictured from the very beginning Pokemon following behind the player. In fact, a certain Gameshark code makes this happen in Red and Blue. Before Yellow did. Features are distinct from the games they hold... No one suggests link cables or the printer-camera are canon. Those are features that were given a place inside the game to reside in.
I was not only talking about features though, let's not forget. In fact, I was talking a hell of a lot more than features. (Nor does Gameshark codes have much to do with this, bar showing how little it takes to implement the Pikachu-following-you feature you otherwise seem to the think was timely and difficult and all).
George Lucas is the same man, the same director, the same money, the same company, the same technology company, and everything else yet his prequels are still inconsistent with the original trilogy. You can't simply say that just because the same people made something that they intended the same thing with it. There are different levels of canon and each in their own line.
Ah, but I can. He makes it in different mediums, did not have the very same level of imput every single time - heck, things get changed, and overlooked by different people, and so forth, when it comes to so many different types of films (and outlets) Star Wars has had with Lucas's name printed on the top) - and we are not talking about Star Wars, but Pokemon Yellow. No amount of other instances is going to change that Yellow was made by the same company on the same system with the same game mechanics and setting and storyline and lord-knows-what (well, he knows restating things is a waste of time here) as Red and Blue. Outside of a very,
very small number of changes, half which are recognised in GSC/HG/SS and hence this shows this canon is recognised and accounted for, and half which didn't necessarily have to come back and does not make the game based on the anime at all.
Anyways, yet again I've had enough. Probably won't bother again, especially if you keep insisting it is a game based on the anime instead of incorporating a few anime elements - I haven't interest in re-stating why it isn't and countering all of your points on why it isn't but given how a few times dso far I can say I feel at all convinced it is, I don't imagine I will (and if I do later on, never fear as I'll bother to say it) - and talking about how it being an official game made by Game Freak with the same...(blahblahblahwhatisaidbefore)...as Red and Blue doesn't make it canon by saying how it isn't the case with Watchmen or Starwars. They're different instances altogether. So feel free to quote this (but I think I know you will), but don't expect a reply as I already made my stance for all to see, unless something interesting arises or I feel like it again. And debating with you becomes tiring very quickly, sorry.. repeating stuff isn't exactly fun. =P
As it stands thus far, a sole one vote for it not being canon, and less (well, half in fact) votes for alternate canon (whatever that really means - I'm sure if differs for each person given that could be up to personal interpretation, and what their voting on - the different elements which obviously are alternate, or the game as a whole which effectively is the same as RB) then it being a canon.
EDIT: Well considering I feel sure I can respond to every part of that post below and nothing convinces me that Yellow is an anime-based game yet somehow has the same gameplay/mechanics/etc as RB and so forth (and how much is speculation and comparisons -
not proof that Yellow isn't canon, but stuff on different games, or instances which have not applied to this one, and so forth), just like before, and seeing how no point can be accepted, there's no point at any rate. (And a few things you said came from mis-reading me. =/ But whatevers.) I wonder if anyone else will bother as some things there really shouldn't go unchecked, but I really don't feel like it. Just to clarify, I
neversaid people who voted for alternate canon were stupid, nor implied that (or meant to) - especially as that option as I said is kinda unclear - examing it on the feature/game differences, it is alternate and I agree with that; otherwise it's the very same thing as R/G by far and beyond, and considering how minor these different features. Trying to make me out as attacking you or thinking others stupid isn't something that's going to affect me, Redstar, as I know exactly what I think, not you. Way to go. -_-
