Rate my team

[Handsome Samurott]

I came up with a team. I would like people to rate it and comment on it. I have not tried it out yet; I am still in the process of breeding and EV training.

Politoed
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Def, 252 SpA
Nature: Bold
Ability: Drizzle
Item: Damp Rock
Moves:
- Surf
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Rain Dance

Vaporeon
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SpA
Nature: Bold
Ability: Hydration
Item: Leftovers
Moves:
- Protect
- Scald
- Toxic
- Wish

Greninja
EVs: 4 HP, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
Ability: Protean
Item: Life Orb
Moves:
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
- Extrasensory

Ferrothorn
EVs: 252 HP, 4 Def, 252 SpD
Nature: Impish
Ability: Iron Barbs
Item: Rocky Helmet
Moves:
- Power Whip
- Iron Head
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed

Volcarona
EVs: 252 SpA, 4 SpD, 252 Spe
Nature: Modest
Ability: Flame Body
Item: Charcoal, Sharp Beak, or Shell Bell
Moves:
- Quiver Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Hurricane
- Fiery Dance

Dragonite
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Multiscale
Item: Lum Berry
Moves:
- Dragon Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Dragon Claw
- Thunder Punch

Three other notes. For Ferrothorn, I plan to also breed a Relaxed nature Ferrothorn with a 0 speed IV and use Gyro Ball. I will compare how the two Ferrothorns perform. For Dragonite, I was also considering replacing Dragon Dance with Earthquake, Stone Edge, or Fire Punch and giving him a Choice Band. Finally, for 3-on-3 battles, I would probably use a combination of either Politoed, Ferrothorn, and Dragonite; Politoed, Ferrothorn, and Volcarona; or Ferrothorn, Vaporeon, and Dragonite.

 

[PlatinumDude]

An offensive set doesn't suit Politoed's EV spread. It has to use a support set to match:
-Scald
-Toxic
-Encore/Hypnosis
-Hypnosis/Ice Beam/Rest
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SDef
Item: Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle

You could use Vaporeon on this team, but it tends to be bait for status when rain isn't active. This isn't B/W anymore, so you'll have to make do with something else. A Swift Swimmer to pick up the pace, especially Kabutops, is preferred for the Rapid Spin support it provides:
-Waterfall
-Stone Edge
-Aqua Jet/Low Kick
-Rapid Spin
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim

Gyro Ball > Iron Head on Ferrothorn. It's so slow that Gyro Ball tends to hit its max BP in most cases. It's also too slow to utilize the flinch chance and you don't have Thunder Wave to compensate:
-Stealth Rock
-Leech Seed
-Power Whip
-Gyro Ball/Protect/Knock Off
Nature: Relaxed
EVs: 252 HP/88 Def/168 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs

Just stick to your current Dragonite set. Move the last 4 EVs to Defense so it HP isn't divisible by 4. Also, consider using Mega Ampharos or Mega Manectric over Dragonite as a better way to deal with Thundurus. If Dragonite's Lum Berry was already burned up, Thundurus can freely cut its sweep short with a Prankster Thunder Wave. The Electrics I mentioned are immune to paralysis:

Ampharos:
-Agility
-Thunder
-Dragon Pulse
-Focus Blast
Nature: Modest
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Ampharosite
Ability: Static

Manectric:
-Thunder
-Volt Switch
-Overheat (weird on a rain team, yes, but it needs that to get past Ferrothorn and Excadrill)
-Hidden Power (Ice)
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Manectite
Ability: Lightning Rod

 

[Polar Spectrum]

Politoed might benefit more from another move besides Rain Dance since it has drizzle, Greninja's hydro pump is typically favored over surf's reliability (but hey go for surf if that's what you really want-) Vaporeon miiiight benefit from Acid Armor, if Ferrothorn's nature is impish not careful, it may enjoy a heavier physical defense than sp def investment - if you're going for flamethrower survivability in rain, just go full sp def with careful - Volcarona could probably use a focus sash or something else over those type boosting items, and lastly I think most of the cool kids these days put weakness policies on their multiscale dragonites. PHEW. Sorry for the run on sentence. :p

 

[PlatinumDude]

Politoed might benefit more from another move besides Rain Dance since it has drizzle, Greninja's hydro pump is typically favored over surf's reliability (but hey go for surf if that's what you really want-) Vaporeon miiiight benefit from Acid Armor, if Ferrothorn's nature is impish not careful, it may enjoy a heavier physical defense than sp def investment - if you're going for flamethrower survivability in rain, just go full sp def with careful - Volcarona could probably use a focus sash or something else over those type boosting items, and lastly I think most of the cool kids these days put weakness policies on their multiscale dragonites. PHEW. Sorry for the run on sentence. :p

I know that Acid Armor can patch up Vaporeon's Defense, but it should only be used if it's using Baton Pass. I already mentioned a better EV spread for Ferrothorn. Volcarona is too specially bulky for Focus Sash and if you don't want a power-boosting item, Passho Berry is better for taking an incoming Water move. I'm also going to say no to Weakness Policy because Dragonite tends to be prone to status, especially burn, paralysis and post-Outrage confusion, so Lum Berry is the best item on it.

 

[MoxieInfinite]

Vap sucks on rain. And if ur running rain in the first place, run offense with mons like spex kingdra and lo kabutops. Volc sucks dont use it. I dislike ddnite on rain anyway. Try lati and mega hera.

 

[Handsome Samurott]

I appreciate the replies. I will discuss them with a friend of mine to see what she thinks. In the meantime, I would like to share some of my thoughts.

1. Re: the nature and EV spread on Politoed.

Of course, Politoed exists solely for the rain. But the reason I invested in Def is because he has decent SpD, and the reason I invested in SpA is just in case I need to use him as an almost last resort to deal some damage.

2. Re: Vaporeon.

I think Vaporeon has fantastic stall capabilities. It is able to withstand a solar beam from even Mega Charizard Y in the sun. Also, toxic annoys everything that is not Steel or that does not have Magic Bounce/Magic Guard. Wish provides enormous support for either Vaporeon or its teammates, especially helping Dragonite keep Multiscale intact.

3. Re: Ferrothorn.

I was able to breed a Relaxed nature Ferrothorn with perfect IVs in HP, Atk, Def, and SpD and a 0 IV in Spe, thus providing a solid base for getting as much out of Gyro Ball as possible. I am still unsure about the EV distribution. I think 252 HP is necessary, and I like the idea of investing 252 in SpD in order to withstand Focus Blast, Aura Sphere, and special Fire attacks, especially in the rain. I put the remaining 4 EVs in Def, which, combined with his naturally high Def and the boost in Def he will receive from the Relaxed nature, should enable him to survive physical hits pretty well, whether Fighting, Fire, or Ground. That is the reason I also put Iron Barbs and a Rocky Helmet on him: to punish physical attackers and make them think twice about dishing out such hits.

I am also unsure about Leech Seed. It is a standard move for Ferrothorn sets and provides good recovery, but I also worry about opponents switching out with it, and it is useless against Grass types. Is that still the best move, or is there another move I could consider?

4. Re: Volcarona.

I will consider the Passho Berry. But I worry more about Ground and Rock attacks than Water attacks, to be truthful, because I can always switch into Vaporeon or Dragonite to absorb the Water attacks. Is there a Berry that minimizes damage from Ground or Rock attacks? I haven't done the research on that so that's why I'm asking.

5. Re: Dragonite.

Everyone seems to consider him broken, even with Multiscale. And I know that there are challenges to using him, but I don't believe he's as broken as people believe. As for switching him out with Mega Ampharos or Mega Manectric, doesn't that just open me to a gigantic weakness to Garchomp, Lucario, etc? Aren't they far more common threats than, say, Thundurus?

Two more things. I do generally favor Surf over Hydro Pump because of its greater accuracy and because of its higher number of Power Points. Especially with something as frail as Greninja, sometimes accuracy means more than power.

Finally, to the last person who replied to my post - MoxieInfinite - while I appreciate the time you took to reply and give your opinion on the subject, (1) please stop using bizarre abbreviations that only the initiated and elite understand. I don't have the time or desire to go to some Pokemon dictionary to look up all the abbreviations and jargon. (2) I don't use Latias/Latios (if that's indeed what "Lati" refers to), just like I don't use any other legendary Pokemon, because (a) you cannot get a perfect IV one without hacking, and hacking is for losers, and (b) because they are a pain to try to transfer over from previous generations.

In any event, thanks everyone for their opinions. I will consult with my friend and share my ideas with her as well as the stuff you all brought up and I will see what she says. I'm sure you guys have good points in there, and quite likely some of my thoughts, though logical to me, may not be as useful for or accurate to the metagame as I would like to think. Thanks!

 

[PlatinumDude]

I appreciate the replies. I will discuss them with a friend of mine to see what she thinks. In the meantime, I would like to share some of my thoughts.

1. Re: the nature and EV spread on Politoed.

Of course, Politoed exists solely for the rain. But the reason I invested in Def is because he has decent SpD, and the reason I invested in SpA is just in case I need to use him as an almost last resort to deal some damage.

2. Re: Vaporeon.

I think Vaporeon has fantastic stall capabilities. It is able to withstand a solar beam from even Mega Charizard Y in the sun. Also, toxic annoys everything that is not Steel or that does not have Magic Bounce/Magic Guard. Wish provides enormous support for either Vaporeon or its teammates, especially helping Dragonite keep Multiscale intact.

3. Re: Ferrothorn.

I was able to breed a Relaxed nature Ferrothorn with perfect IVs in HP, Atk, Def, and SpD and a 0 IV in Spe, thus providing a solid base for getting as much out of Gyro Ball as possible. I am still unsure about the EV distribution. I think 252 HP is necessary, and I like the idea of investing 252 in SpD in order to withstand Focus Blast, Aura Sphere, and special Fire attacks, especially in the rain. I put the remaining 4 EVs in Def, which, combined with his naturally high Def and the boost in Def he will receive from the Relaxed nature, should enable him to survive physical hits pretty well, whether Fighting, Fire, or Ground. That is the reason I also put Iron Barbs and a Rocky Helmet on him: to punish physical attackers and make them think twice about dishing out such hits.

I am also unsure about Leech Seed. It is a standard move for Ferrothorn sets and provides good recovery, but I also worry about opponents switching out with it, and it is useless against Grass types. Is that still the best move, or is there another move I could consider?

4. Re: Volcarona.

I will consider the Passho Berry. But I worry more about Ground and Rock attacks than Water attacks, to be truthful, because I can always switch into Vaporeon or Dragonite to absorb the Water attacks. Is there a Berry that minimizes damage from Ground or Rock attacks? I haven't done the research on that so that's why I'm asking.

5. Re: Dragonite.

Everyone seems to consider him broken, even with Multiscale. And I know that there are challenges to using him, but I don't believe he's as broken as people believe. As for switching him out with Mega Ampharos or Mega Manectric, doesn't that just open me to a gigantic weakness to Garchomp, Lucario, etc? Aren't they far more common threats than, say, Thundurus?

Two more things. I do generally favor Surf over Hydro Pump because of its greater accuracy and because of its higher number of Power Points. Especially with something as frail as Greninja, sometimes accuracy means more than power.

Finally, to the last person who replied to my post - MoxieInfinite - while I appreciate the time you took to reply and give your opinion on the subject, (1) please stop using bizarre abbreviations that only the initiated and elite understand. I don't have the time or desire to go to some Pokemon dictionary to look up all the abbreviations and jargon. (2) I don't use Latias/Latios (if that's indeed what "Lati" refers to), just like I don't use any other legendary Pokemon, because (a) you cannot get a perfect IV one without hacking, and hacking is for losers, and (b) because they are a pain to try to transfer over from previous generations.

In any event, thanks everyone for their opinions. I will consult with my friend and share my ideas with her as well as the stuff you all brought up and I will see what she says. I'm sure you guys have good points in there, and quite likely some of my thoughts, though logical to me, may not be as useful for or accurate to the metagame as I would like to think. Thanks!

Wouldn't it be a better idea to use Modest with 172 HP/252 SAtk/84 Spe on Politoed? This lets it outspeed stuff up to 0 Speed Venusaur and Mandibuzz and gives it better all-round bulk as opposed to just 252 Defense EVs.

Rain stall is ineffective this generation because of the 5/8-turn duration of Drizzle. Vaporeon was severely hurt by this change, rendering its Hydration-stalling days over. These days, rain is all about offense, using support Pokemon only when necessary. Also, Charizard Y takes pitiful damage from Scald in sunlight, giving it more than enough time to take Vaporeon out with Solar Beam:

0 SpA Vaporeon Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y in Sun: 84-98 (28.2 - 32.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

252 HP/88 Def/168 SDef is the optimal spread for Relaxed Ferrothorn. This gives it more Defense to take on physical attackers, while still giving it enough special bulk to live resisted special attacks. Leech Seed also deters opponents from using Ferrothorn as setup bait and Ferrothorn can't do much to Grass Pokemon anyways.

Greninja isn't the strongest Pokemon out there, which is why Hydro Pump is preferred over Surf simply because of the higher power and Greninja needs all the power it can get.

Remember that Mega Ampharos outspeeds plenty of stuff after an Agility, while Mega Manectric outspeeds Garchomp outright and weakens it on the switch with Intimidate (neither should be brought in directly, though). Both have their own ways of dealing with Garchomp in Dragon Pulse and Hidden Power (Ice) respectively:

252 SpA Mega Manectric Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 312-368 (87.1 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO (Garchomp needs to be weakened for a better chance of HP Ice to get the KO)

252+ SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 420-494 (117.3 - 137.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

The trick is to bring either of them on something they scare out, then act accordingly if Garchomp is brought in.

Volcarona isn't weak to Ground; it's only weak to Water, Rock and Flying. In case you're wondering, Charti Berry is the Rock-weakening berry; Shuca Berry is the Ground-weakening berry. Coba Berry (which weakens Flying moves) could be used if you're afraid of Mega Pinsir's Quick Attack.

 

[Handsome Samurott]

PlatinumDude,

Thank you for reminding me that Volcarona receives only 1x damage from Earthquake because of its part Bug typing. That was my mistake. Thank you for the information about the berries. That was helpful. I understand what you are saying about rain being nerfed this generation; it is true, and I will talk to my friend to see if she agrees with you that a more offensive team is the better way to go. It is certainly frustrating trying to build a balanced, cohesive team, especially one that may rely so heavily on the weather.

I see what you are saying about Politoed. I can breed a Modest Politoed and EV train it the way you suggest and see how that fares.

I still don't know that Vaporeon is broken. Perhaps a Water Absorb Vaporeon will fare better?

As for Ferrothorn, I will take your advice and follow the Smogon-specific EV distribution you recommended, but I am still a little wary. But perhaps it will be more balanced. Good point about the Leech Seed.

Why does Hidden Power - Ice from Mega Manectric so hard to kill Garchomp? Is it because of its low base power? It certainly couldn't be because of any weakness in Mega Manectric's SpA or any investment in Garchomp's SpD (because practically no one invests in Garchomp's SpD).

As for Mega Ampharos, I figured his Dragon Pulse would annihilate Garchomp, but I was worried about his speed. How fast is he after one agility? I don't know how to calculate those figures. Perhaps you can direct me to a calculator site?

Thanks for the help.

 

[PlatinumDude]

PlatinumDude,

Thank you for reminding me that Volcarona receives only 1x damage from Earthquake because of its part Bug typing. That was my mistake. Thank you for the information about the berries. That was helpful. I understand what you are saying about rain being nerfed this generation; it is true, and I will talk to my friend to see if she agrees with you that a more offensive team is the better way to go. It is certainly frustrating trying to build a balanced, cohesive team, especially one that may rely so heavily on the weather.

I see what you are saying about Politoed. I can breed a Modest Politoed and EV train it the way you suggest and see how that fares.

I still don't know that Vaporeon is broken. Perhaps a Water Absorb Vaporeon will fare better?

As for Ferrothorn, I will take your advice and follow the Smogon-specific EV distribution you recommended, but I am still a little wary. But perhaps it will be more balanced. Good point about the Leech Seed.

Why does Hidden Power - Ice from Mega Manectric so hard to kill Garchomp? Is it because of its low base power? It certainly couldn't be because of any weakness in Mega Manectric's SpA or any investment in Garchomp's SpD (because practically no one invests in Garchomp's SpD).

As for Mega Ampharos, I figured his Dragon Pulse would annihilate Garchomp, but I was worried about his speed. How fast is he after one agility? I don't know how to calculate those figures. Perhaps you can direct me to a calculator site?

Thanks for the help.

HP Ice doesn't OHKO Garchomp all the time due to its low base power.

After an Agility, 252 Speed Modest Mega Ampharos outspeeds opponents up to Timid Greninja.

Edit: forgot about this: https://pokemonshowdown.com/damagecalc/

 

[Handsome Samurott]

Thanks for the additional information! I'll check out the calculator.

 

[Polar Spectrum]

I know that Acid Armor can patch up Vaporeon's Defense, but it should only be used if it's using Baton Pass. I already mentioned a better EV spread for Ferrothorn. Volcarona is too specially bulky for Focus Sash and if you don't want a power-boosting item, Passho Berry is better for taking an incoming Water move. I'm also going to say no to Weakness Policy because Dragonite tends to be prone to status, especially burn, paralysis and post-Outrage confusion, so Lum Berry is the best item on it.

I suggested Acid Armor since his Vaporeon's going for stall with toxic and wish, passho won't be as effective since he's running rain and volcarona won't take that water hit anyways unless it's max Sp Def with possibly a quiver dance already, and that's ignoring waterfall too, which focus sash would both tank barring entry hazards, and weakness policy dragonite is one option - lum's also nice, but particularly with Marvel Scale giving it that ice beam or rock attack survivability, in singles - that weakness policy with dem moves seem to go together.

run on sentences for the win