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[Other] Why are there so many FireRed Hacks?

SuperEspeon

Sinnohbaby
    • 179
    Posts
    11
    Years
    I've noticed a strong abundance of FireRed hacks. Any particular reasons that this game is so esteemed by the hacking community?
     
    SuperEspeon said:
    I've noticed a strong abundance of FireRed hacks. Any particular reasons that this game is so esteemed by the hacking community?
    Click to expand...

    One, is that it is relatively easy to understand, nothing too complicated about it :3
    Also there are a numerical amount of Research and tools which are supported by FireRed(for instance Mr.DollSteak's Rom Base)
    And its good for anyone who wants to fully understand Rom Hacking :)
    But it ain't no thang.
     
    Dark Sneasel said:
    "Well, I don't mean to be a bug on your shoulder, but you see what FR is capable of?:
    https://www.pokecommunity.com/threads/302476
    https://www.pokecommunity.com/threads/293704
    https://www.pokecommunity.com/threads/267584
    https://www.pokecommunity.com/threads/298934
    https://www.pokecommunity.com/threads/240183
    https://www.pokecommunity.com/threads/257647
    https://www.pokecommunity.com/threads/301711
    https://www.pokecommunity.com/threads/206197
    https://www.pokecommunity.com/threads/304077
    https://www.pokecommunity.com/threads/291023
    https://www.pokecommunity.com/threads/246740
    And the best of them all:
    https://www.pokecommunity.com/threads/194241

    I used to be a Ruby hacker, but I then I realized that even though RSE were good games, on the inside they aren't. You know?
    I've never even played FR (nor will I) but still. You can change FR into Ruby by appearance if you wanted (and very easily).
    So RSE aren't as great as they seem. I don't want you to change, but think about it. Plus, not everyone carries Sapphire ROMs. I've seen before that people are attracted to the hack, just that it's Sapphire or Leaf Green, and they don't play it for that reason alone."​
    ​
    -gogojjtech


    ​
    Click to expand...
    This sums up it all.

    Fire Red is the most researched engine and the code in the ROM is organized as compared to other ROMs.
     
    It's quite simple to use FireRed because there are many hacking tools. There are a lot of very famous old FireRed hacks such as Shiny Gold or Liquid Crystal. This inspired many people. That may have had something to do with it.
     
    Yeah, that's pretty much it. FireRed's the most researched and documented, effectively making it the easiest to hack. It's supported by an abundance of tools and patches (such as JPAN's hacked engine and MrDollSteak's rombase) that make life easier because of this, making it a perfect base for one's first rom hack.
     
    Saying that FR is documented / has tools is not really an answer. The reason why FR has so many tools and is so heavily researched is because it is so heavily hacked, not the other way around. I suppose it is the reason why it's unlikely for that to ever change, but still.
     
    Sagiri said:
    Saying that FR is documented / has tools is not really an answer. The reason why FR has so many tools and is so heavily researched is because it is so heavily hacked, not the other way around. I suppose it is the reason why it's unlikely for that to ever change, but still.
    Click to expand...

    Actually, bot of the arguments complete each other
    Someone started hacking firered, so they made tools, and because the tools existed, someone made a firered hack himself, with the growing existence of hacks, more tools were needed, and so on
    It's pretty basic stuff, it's how money works
    I buy something from you, so you can have money to buy something from me, so I can have money to buy something from you, and we're all happy 'cause we all buy what we need, so there's no need to stop the cycle, therefore, it's hard that it will
    However, unlike money, even if people stop hackinf firered, the tools will all still be around, so it will easily stand back up on it's feet
     
    JosefigGaming said:
    Actually, bot of the arguments complete each other
    Someone started hacking firered, so they made tools, and because the tools existed, someone made a firered hack himself, with the growing existence of hacks, more tools were needed, and so on
    It's pretty basic stuff, it's how money works
    I buy something from you, so you can have money to buy something from me, so I can have money to buy something from you, and we're all happy 'cause we all buy what we need, so there's no need to stop the cycle, therefore, it's hard that it will
    However, unlike money, even if people stop hackinf firered, the tools will all still be around, so it will easily stand back up on it's feet
    Click to expand...

    Exactly. I pointed out that it is unlikely to change - it's too cyclic. The more people hack it, the more people explore the ROM. And, as people hack it, more people explore the ROM.

    However, the cycle started somewhere.

    As you yourself stated:

    JosefigGaming said:
    Someone started hacking firered
    Click to expand...

    And that is the person I'm talking about.

    At that point in time, there would be no (or extremely minimal) documentation on any of the ROMs. There would be no pragmatic reasons to choose, say, FR over LG, as they are essentially the same game.
     
    Sagiri said:
    And that is the person I'm talking about.

    At that point in time, there would be no (or extremely minimal) documentation on any of the ROMs. There would be no pragmatic reasons to choose, say, FR over LG, as they are essentially the same game.
    Click to expand...

    Well, either
    a. He decided to use firered 'cause why not?
    b. FireRed was his favorite game so he decided to start on that one over the others
    c. He tried both but FireRed seemed easier because the engine is more organised or whatever :P
     
    It just kind of happens when there's two games, usually the first of the two is the most common to be hacked, and is better documented. So people prefer Ruby over Sapphire (and Emerald over the two) and Fire Red over Leaf Green.

    Now, I don't know the reason Fire Red is more popular than Ruby/Emerald, but back when I started ROM Hacking and R/S/E hacks were more common, I started from Ruby and then switched to Emerald because it had more features, and then switched to Fire Red because I preferred its graphical style much more than R/S/E's, there were more FR/LG style resources. I remember things like heavy graphics editing weren't really common, and there weren't tools to edit door animations, so I just went with Fire Red.
     
    Christos said:
    It just kind of happens when there's two games, usually the first of the two is the most common to be hacked, and is better documented. So people prefer Ruby over Sapphire (and Emerald over the two) and Fire Red over Leaf Green.

    Now, I don't know the reason Fire Red is more popular than Ruby/Emerald, but back when I started ROM Hacking and R/S/E hacks were more common, I started from Ruby and then switched to Emerald because it had more features, and then switched to Fire Red because I preferred its graphical style much more than R/S/E's, there were more FR/LG style resources. I remember things like heavy graphics editing weren't really common, and there weren't tools to edit door animations, so I just went with Fire Red.
    Click to expand...

    This was me as well, and it was why I chose FireRed for my first hack (that I'm still working on lol). I also started on Ruby, but moved to FireRed because the things I were attempting to do weren't documented anywhere and were too ambitious in a Ruby rom at the time, but were a lot easier to do in FR. Though IMO, R/S/E has better music in general, and support for Emerald (which isn't that unstable from my experiences) is larger now than it was back then. Maybe I'll move to Emerald for a 2nd rom hack. xD
     
    Yeah. It's kind of interesting that more people didn't base their hacks off of Emerald. You'd think Emerald would be slightly more robust and offer a sprinkling of extra features to take advantage of. Besides, isn't Emerald built off of FireRed to begin with?
     
    cyanosis said:
    Yeah. It's kind of interesting that more people didn't base their hacks off of Emerald. You'd think Emerald would be slightly more robust and offer a sprinkling of extra features to take advantage of. Besides, isn't Emerald built off of FireRed to begin with?
    Click to expand...

    Don't quote me on this (I'm not capable of checking Emerald in Sappy atm), but I believe that Emerald also has FR/LG's music in its code along with R/S's, so I think that's true.

    Due to having more features than the other bases, Emerald truly would be the superior one once we can do just as much to it as FireRed. Maybe after I finish my project I'll look into some of these things.

    SirCharmander said:
    Probably the easiest. Can't imagine trying to do one over emerald base
    Click to expand...

    It's not entirely out of the realm of possibility to do a rom hack of Emerald. Pokemon Flora Sky is a good example.
     
    Darkrai Lv.1000 said:
    Don't quote me on this (I'm not capable of checking Emerald in Sappy atm), but I believe that Emerald also has FR/LG's music in its code along with R/S's, so I think that's true.

    Due to having more features than the other bases, Emerald truly would be the superior one once we can do just as much to it as FireRed. Maybe after I finish my project I'll look into some of these things.



    It's not entirely out of the realm of possibility to do a rom hack of Emerald. Pokemon Flora Sky is a good example.
    Click to expand...

    Yeah there's a few of them actually, glazed, flora sky, crystal dust etc but I always imagined it to be much more challeging than any other rom base
     
    Last edited:
    The deal with Emerald is mostly in its free space. A number of tools (most prominently A-Map) were built under the assumption that Emerald's free space is the same as Ruby's. This wouldn't be a problem, were it not for the fact that it uses 00 free space, and much of the new data occupying what was Ruby's free space is sound data. Instruments have a lot of 00 space, which A-Map will happily put data in if you let it repoint without asking for an offset, causing the music to break horribly and naive romhackers to write Emerald off as "unstable".

    This in turn has led to a lot of recent research being aimed towards FR, as nobody wanted to deal with that noise. For a long while, information on stuff like custom moves and animations was strictly FR only unless you were quite savvy and willing to work with both. This cycle was somewhat cyclic and arguably still is, although there are quite a few resources emerging for Emerald lately.
     
    DoesntKnowHowToPlay said:
    The deal with Emerald is mostly in its free space. A number of tools (most prominently A-Map) were built under the assumption that Emerald's free space is the same as Ruby's. This wouldn't be a problem, were it not for the fact that it uses 00 free space, and much of the new data occupying what was Ruby's free space is sound data. Instruments have a lot of 00 space, which A-Map will happily put data in if you let it repoint without asking for an offset, causing the music to break horribly and naive romhackers to write Emerald off as "unstable".

    This in turn has led to a lot of recent research being aimed towards FR, as nobody wanted to deal with that noise. For a long while, information on stuff like custom moves and animations was strictly FR only unless you were quite savvy and willing to work with both. This cycle was somewhat cyclic and arguably still is, although there are quite a few resources emerging for Emerald lately.
    Click to expand...

    I knew that people wrongly claimed Emerald was unstable, I just never knew why. That 00 free space thing is pretty bizarre, considering it also has FF free space. Thanks for explaining why, now I know why I sometimes hear those little "beep" noises in some Emerald hacks.
     
    Sure Firered is easier to hack, but Emerald has dive, contests, berries, battle animations, battle frontier, the Verdanturf Town micrograss, etc. With all those cool features I really don't know why people prefer Firered. Maybe it's a new trend?
     
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