wow my team works on shoddy.

[Kirioroshi]

as the title mentioned this team worked well on shoddy.
I'm actually quite surprised.
well im posting it here to try and improve it.


heres my team.

Weavile@ choice band
Jolly
Pressure
252atk/252Spd/6hp
-Aerial Ace
-Brick Break
-Pursuit
-Ice Punch/Ice Shard

aerial ace has saved me a few times versing infernapes, that im stuck against.
Pursuit is awsome, some guy left after i killed his azelf with it..=S

Starmie@leftovers
Timid
Natures Cure
172hp/122Satk/216Spd
-Ice Beam
-Thunderbolt
-Surf
-Rapid Spin

Starmie is okay =S hasn't done much for me, yet.

Lucario@Specs
Modest
Steadfast
252Satk/252Spd/6hp
-Aura Sphere
-Vacuum Wave
-Dark Pulse
-Dragon Pulse

Lucario has done quite well aswell

Milotic@leftovers
Modest
Marvel Scale
252Hp/232Def/26Satk
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Rest
-Sleep Talk

OMG! I LOVE THIS BABE! this things like takes care of Garchomps soo well. but pressure stallers ruin her =[.

Gliscor @ Leftovers
Impish
Sand Veil
252Hp/194Def/64Atk
-Earthquake
-Aerial Ace
-Stealth Rock
-Roost

Eh its ok aswell, nothign spectacular yet.

Togekiss@Metronome
Modest
Serene Grace
252Hp / 252Def / 6 SDef
-Air Slash
-Aura Sphere
-Roost
-Thunder Wave

OMG! I LOVE THIS GUY TOO!! took out a Bronzong at 74% Hp with critical air slash.

things that don't work well. i don't think starmie works that well, usually it gets killed, but i then again, i do use him as a fodder so my milotic doesn't die. lol
gliscor is ok, hes decent...

the things that annoy me are sub punching brelooms, can't seem to deal with them well..

well those are my thoughts, any suggestions.

 

[Dark Azelf]

as the title mentioned this team worked well on shoddy.
I'm actually quite surprised.
well im posting it here to try and improve it.


heres my team.

Weavile@ choice band
Jolly
Pressure
252atk/216Spd/42hp
-Aerial Ace
-Brick Break
-Pursuit
-Ice Punch/Ice Shard

yes, but you cant switch in on Azelf, BUT 42 HP evs allow you to switch dirctly into an unboosted Azelfs Flamethower and live, it also allows you to survive an specs starmies surf =). 252 Speed is ovekill anyways, 216 already outspeeds , Zam Duggy and Sceptile and more and you get pointless speed ties.

Starmie@leftovers
Timid
Natures Cure
172hp/122Satk/216Spd
-Recover
-Thunderbolt
-Surf
-Rapid Spin

Recover, so you can spin better.

Lucario@Specs
Modest
Steadfast
252Satk/252Spd/6hp
-Aura Sphere
-Vacuum Wave
-Dark Pulse
-Dragon Pulse

Nice

Milotic@leftovers
Modest
Marvel Scale
252Hp/232Def/26Satk
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Rest
-Sleep Talk

I also love this pokemon

Gliscor @ Leftovers
Impish
Sand Veil
252Hp/188 def / 72 speed
-Earthquake
-Aerial Ace
-Stealth Rock
-Roost

Give it 72 speed evs to outspeed Jolly T-Tar, Timid Magnezone and Breloom, so joo can pwn all of them, without getting Hp Iced by Zone or Ice Beamed by T-Tar. =)

Togekiss@Metronome
Calm
Serene Grace
252Hp / 252Sp.Def / 6 SDef
-Air Slash
-Aura Sphere
-Roost
-Thunder Wave

More sp.def plzz and Calm.

Comments are in bold. Im thinking maybe Ice Shard >>Punch, on weavile, so you can rape Scarf Chomp and CB Chomp and other stuff.

Why is Breloom a problem? Gliscor is the best counter ever for it =/. Go to Milotic, take the sleep, go to Gliscor, laugh at anything it does to you.


But yeah, starmie with Recover is more effective and you will be able to beat Gyarados and Mixape much better by recovering off residual damage.

 

[Kirioroshi]

Breloom kept outspeeding Gliscor, thats why.

Thanks Dark Azelf, ill go make those changes and do another series of testing.

also do you mean 70 Spd Evs?

i dont think glicors Ev add up =S

 

[Dark Azelf]

Breloom kept outspeeding Gliscor, thats why.

Thanks Dark Azelf, ill go make those changes and do another series of testing.

also do you mean 70 Spd Evs?

i dont think glicors Ev add up =S

Nope, 72 , but Whoops, i meant 184 def :p


Anyways, put Night Slash >> AA on Weavile, its not powerful enough to warrant a moveslot, besides you really dont need it, with Star, Milotic AND Gliscor to take all forms of infernape =/, hell even Togekiss laughs at mixape. Night Slash is also better against stuff you finds wants to stay in and can live pursuits (Its embarrasing when they stay in =[) , such as Cress, Celebi and other study psychics and ghosts.

 

[Syaoran]

Gliscor is not a good Breloom counter.. it can Leech Seed stall and Gliscor doesn't take Seed Bomb well when he needs to Roost.

Celebi is the best Breloom counter..

You already have Rapid Spin support so I suppose going with a full attacking Timid Togekiss with Nasty Plot. It hurts. Leftovers please.

 

[Dark Azelf]

Gliscor is not a good Breloom counter.. it can Leech Seed stall and Gliscor doesn't take Seed Bomb well when he needs to Roost.

Celebi is the best Breloom counter..

You already have Rapid Spin support so I suppose going with a full attacking Timid Togekiss with Nasty Plot. It hurts. Leftovers please.

It cant sub seed if Gliscor is faster, so thats why i said put 72 speed evs on the dude. As soon as it sets a sub up, send glis in, and AA, breaking its sub whilst it seeds you, and it must switch out or it dies to AA next turn, thats what i meant XP.


As much as Nasty Plot Togekiss hurts, lol the things so broken actually XD, he has a lack of special walling, so i think a bulkier ev spread is in order with evs allocated in hp and sp.def with Calm Nature would be better. Unless he got a more reliable sp.wall that is.

 

[Syaoran]

Uhh.. to outspeed max jolly Breloom he needs 148 EVs in Speed.. and that's quite taking from its walling ability.

If he wanted a sp.wall he should use Blissey.. Togekiss isn't a good candidate coz it doesn't like status and can't even take BoltBeam =\
He needs a way to beat Blissey because even Lucario is risking getting T-waved or Flamethrower'd when it can't 1HKO her. That's why I suggested making Togekiss more offensive. Celebi is actually a really good pokemon here because it can Leech Seed enemy Blissey and help recover teammates who switch in.

 

[Kirioroshi]

my togekiss is a para flincher >.> my milotic is suppose to be my semi-ish special wall.

 

[Dark Azelf]

Uhh.. to outspeed max jolly Breloom he needs 148 EVs in Speed.. and that's quite taking from its walling ability.

If he wanted a sp.wall he should use Blissey.. Togekiss isn't a good candidate coz it doesn't like status and can't even take BoltBeam =\
He needs a way to beat Blissey because even Lucario is risking getting T-waved or Flamethrower'd when it can't 1HKO her. That's why I suggested making Togekiss more offensive. Celebi is actually a really good pokemon here because it can Leech Seed enemy Blissey and help recover teammates who switch in.

Ewwww, who uses Jolly Breloom ? =o. Ive never seen one...

Togekiss is ok at taking sp.att's, most bolt beamers such as starmie run 266 - 273 sp.att to beat up Garchomp and that 3/4hkos Tokekiss.

But yeah, nothing can come in on Bliss. Weavile and Lucario could beat it, i think both specs Aura Sphere is a 2hko and i thing CB Brick break is aswell. Both those getting statused will be an ass though and the ever common Flamethrower bliss like you said. Toxic Blissey will be a problem aswell for togekiss though, so meh.


Yeah, Celebi would be nice, consider that and blissey.

Wobbuffets leads are annoying, who was the smart person that unbanned this?

Everyone hates that thing. People apparently think its not too broken for ou =/ lol


Anyways, Milotic taking sp.att aint gonna work with that moveset, consider this, its a nice little set i found on a smogon thread.

Milotic@leftovers
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 6 Def / 252 Sp.Def
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Light Screen / Toxic / Hypnosis


Either use this or kiss, both can sp.wall effectively.

 

[Syaoran]

Jolly is the right way to use Breloom =]
Leech Seed version is capable of taking the sturdiest walls.

And Starmie 3/4HKO's Togekiss with Ice Beam / Tbolt? I kinda doubt that. =\

Anyway, if he's using Milotic as his special wall it's ok then I guess. Celebi!!!

 

[Dark Azelf]

Jolly is the right way to use Breloom =]
Leech Seed version is capable of taking the sturdiest walls.

And Starmie 3/4HKO's Togekiss with Ice Beam / Tbolt? I kinda doubt that. =\

Anyway, if he's using Milotic as his special wall it's ok then I guess. Celebi!!!

Yep, it does ass


120 sp.att neutral Starmie

Defender HP: 374
Damage: 103 - 122
Damage: 27.54% - 32.62%

On max hp / max sp.def Calm Togekiss lol


But specs star might hurt a bit, so you might need a more reliable sp.wall after all, so meh.

 

[Anti]

Starmie is one of the weakest boltbeamers SAtk-wise in the game though. Just wait for Porygopn-Z and Gengar to enter the scene :0 I agree, Gliscor dies to Breloom. I actually think Weezing is a better counter since it isn't destroyed by boosted Seed Bombs. BTW, I do run a CB Breloom that DOES beat Gliscor. I don't hold Gliscor in high regard as a Breloom counter, I would have to agree with Sya on this one.

Also, I'm no fan of running bulky waters as special walls. Hi Thunderbolt! Seriously, almost all special attackers can hurt bulky waters in some way, whether it's Specs Draco Meteors or STAB Thunderbolts.

I would also invest in a Weavile counter, as it seriously damages this team.

 

[Archer]

Mmm.. Both Milotic and Togekiss are weak to TBolt.
I have found that Togekiss and a Bulky water (Vaporeon in my case) don't generally work well together. So many special sweepers carry TBolt and as your only Electric Immunity, Gliscor is not possibly coming in on a Spec Sweeper. Milotic works well as a Physcial Wall, so I suggest replacing Togekiss with something less vulnerable to BoltBeam.

Snorlax could work. Only you want something that does hate Weavile too much.
All I can think of is a Special Wall Zong. Nah..

 

[Dark Azelf]

Starmie is one of the weakest boltbeamers SAtk-wise in the game though. Just wait for Porygopn-Z and Gengar to enter the scene :0

I agree, Gliscor dies to Breloom. I actually think Weezing is a better counter since it isn't destroyed by boosted Seed Bombs.

Neither is Gliscor unless it Roosts =o. Gliscor can avoid being sub-seeded if you can invest 72 speed to outspeed Adamant Breloom, weezing cant beat Sub-Seed Breloom unless it packs taunt.

BTW, I do run a CB Breloom that DOES beat Gliscor. I don't hold Gliscor in high regard as a Breloom counter, I would have to agree with Sya on this one.

Its the best fighting resist in the game =/ and is neutral to everything else on the set and can outspeed sub-seed.

Also, I'm no fan of running bulky waters as special walls. Hi Thunderbolt! Seriously, almost all special attackers can hurt bulky waters in some way, whether it's Specs Draco Meteors or STAB Thunderbolts.


Milotic and Togekiss ev'd right can take Draco Meteors from specs mence without risking death next turn, DONT underestimate them

Defender HP: 374
Damage: 222 - 261
Damage: 59.36% - 69.79%

From a max sp.att Choice Specs Draco meteor from mence. On Max hp / max sp.def calm Togekiss.

I would also invest in a Weavile counter, as it seriously damages this team.

Anyways as for Weavile Vacuum Wave could possible do it from, Lucario. But if Luke is gone it will cause problems.

But anyways, Porygon-z hurts you pretty bad,Lax looses to Nasty Plot P-Z, so meh.

Why am i thinking Registeel would work ?, if not try Blissey or something >> Milotic and then a bulky steel >> Togekiss.

 

[Anti]

Congratulations! Your special wall can no longer wall a special hit to save its life! Togekiss is just a worse Articuno with a less severe SR weak...and (besides me) who uses Articuno?

Milotic has the stats to wall, but ANYTHING with grass Knot or boosted Thunderbolt will beat it...and that group is pretty big.

Also, you're totally ignoring Jolly Breloom when you talk about Gliscor. You'd have to invest a lot of EVs to outspeed it, and then powerful sweepers' hits (such as CB Meteor Mash) would destroy Gliscor. If you decide not to outspeed Breloom, it's going to get owned. On paper, Weezing doesn't look good, but Breloom has a lot of trouble beating it since it can't inflict damage on Weezing besides Leech Seed, and Weezing can just heal off the damage.

Also, it isn't the best fighting resist in the game in my opinion. A LOT of fighters have access to Ice Punch. Bye bye Gliscor! Weezing is only weak to psychic attacks, which are pretty rare.

EDIT: Gliscor doesn't like boosted Seed Bombs so much.

 

[Dark Azelf]

Congratulations! Your special wall can no longer wall a special hit to save its life! Togekiss is just a worse Articuno with a less severe SR weak...and (besides me) who uses Articuno?

Roost =)

Milotic has the stats to wall, but ANYTHING with grass Knot or boosted Thunderbolt will beat it...and that group is pretty big.


Which is why i said he should get a better sp.wall =]

Also, you're totally ignoring Jolly Breloom when you talk about Gliscor. You'd have to invest a lot of EVs to outspeed it, and then powerful sweepers' hits (such as CB Meteor Mash) would destroy Gliscor. If you decide not to outspeed Breloom, it's going to get owned. On paper, Weezing doesn't look good, but Breloom has a lot of trouble beating it since it can't inflict damage on Weezing besides Leech Seed, and Weezing can just heal off the damage.

I am ignoring Jolly Breloom. No one uses Jolly Breloom, Jolly Breloom slow anyways and it just cuts from its attack which is your prime concern with using breloom. There's no point in running Jolly, since there isn't anything worthwhile between his Adamant maximum Speed and his Jolly maximum Speed, as he falters against most Pokémon trying to outrun Jolly Tyranitar anyways. Its really just..bad


Also id love to see how Weezing can heal outside of Rest-Talk, Sub Blocks Pain split =/

Also, it isn't the best fighting resist in the game in my opinion. A LOT of fighters have access to Ice Punch. Bye bye Gliscor! Weezing is only weak to psychic attacks, which are pretty rare.


Heracross doesnt get Ice Punch and by coincidence Breloom doesn't, and neither do Physical infernape, and neither does Physical Lucario. Pretty much machamp, medicam really in ou that you will be seeing in ou with Ice Punch. Both are more than predictable and Gliscor has no business with either and neither has Weezing. Weezing cant take attacks like it used to do and really is only good for walling fighting attacks,thats it really its shut down by too many physical threats this gen. Pain Split is also not really reliable for a wall either.

EDIT: Gliscor doesn't like boosted Seed Bombs so much.


Glicor doesnt give a crap about seed bombs unless it roosts. Even more should it be running fail Jolly nature.

Max Attack ADAMANT Breloom Seed Bomb

Defender HP: 354
Damage: 95 - 112
Damage: 26.84% - 31.64%

On Max HP / 184 DEF Impish Gliscor.



Just use Celebi if your that scared of Jolly Breloom, one threat that is never seen with that nature anyways =/

 

[Anti]

Notice I said BOOSTED Seed Bombs :/

Rest is the best way to heal with Weezing anyways, so you can just stall out Breloom. It can't Roost if it's dead. That's assuming that there are no entry hazards and no weather effects in play, which is just silly.

That "best fighting resist" isn't a safe switch into Lucario at first since it can HP Ice Gliscor to high heavens. Physical Infernape's Flare Blitz happens to hurt a lot. Also, that Weezing you happen to bash so much walls Breloom and Heracross just as well as Gliscor does (and probably walls Heracross BETTER than Gliscor does).

your claim that Weezing can't wall stuff anymore is totally ridiculous. Weezing has no weaknesses except for the rare psychic attacks and has defensive stats almost identical to those of Gliscor! The big difference between the two is that Gliscor has better healing and is faster while Weezing has a better choice of status and attacking moves and doesn't roll over to Powder Snow.

But seriously, if Weezing is "shut down" by physical threats this generation, so is Gliscor.

EDIT: Not to mention Weezing doesn't die to water attacks in two seconds either. Weezing beats Gyarados, who when used properly totally eats alive most of the metagame. WoW says hi to Weavile as well, who also makes a foll of Gliscor.

Also, bash Jolly Breloom all you want, but it DOES beat Gliscor and it IS better than you think.

Machamp isn't at all predictable with its wide movepool and variety of sets and you're forgetting about threats with Ice Punch like Gallade, Weavile, and hell even Electivire who just laugh at Gliscor.

 

[Dark Azelf]

Notice I said BOOSTED Seed Bombs :/

Rest is the best way to heal with Weezing anyways, so you can just stall out Breloom. It can't Roost if it's dead. That's assuming that there are no entry hazards and no weather effects in play, which is just silly.

That "best fighting resist" isn't a safe switch into Lucario at first since it can HP Ice Gliscor to high heavens. Physical Infernape's Flare Blitz happens to hurt a lot. Also, that Weezing you happen to bash so much walls Breloom and Heracross just as well as Gliscor does (and probably walls Heracross BETTER than Gliscor does).

your claim that Weezing can't wall stuff anymore is totally ridiculous. Weezing has no weaknesses except for the rare psychic attacks and has defensive stats almost identical to those of Gliscor! The big difference between the two is that Gliscor has better healing and is faster while Weezing has a better choice of status and attacking moves and doesn't roll over to Powder Snow.

But seriously, if Weezing is "shut down" by physical threats this generation, so is Gliscor.

.

How can it wall Hera better ? They both wall it indefinitely, so that makes no sense.


Weezing has no good sold STAB move so is often set up fodder by Physical attackers. And all stuff this gen has stuff to hit him harder with.

The big difference between the two is that Gliscor has better healing

That is HUGE when walling something.

I also dont get why this turned into a Weezing vs Gliscor topic, i said "Gliscor is the best fighting resist in the game" which it is in terms of reliability (Weezing is BL for goodness sake) and then we bring up Weezing, yes whilst weezing is good, its not good for this team (Or he gets owned by DD Tar and both ADAMANT AND JOLLY SUB SEED BRELOOM) so lets drop it.




Right back on topic, you need a better special wall and a reliable counter to Weavile.

Not to mention Weezing doesn't die to water attacks in two seconds either. Weezing beats Gyarados, who when used properly totally eats alive most of the metagame.

Switch out ?

Also, bash Jolly Breloom all you want, but it DOES beat Gliscor and it IS better than you think.

Yeah, still no one uses Jolly. and its definatley NOT something to prepare for when making a team.

Machamp isn't at all predictable with its wide movepool and variety of sets and you're forgetting about threats with Ice Punch like Gallade, Weavile, and hell even Electivire who just laugh at Gliscor.

Electivire also laughs at Weezing >_<. Again switch out ?

I meant that an ice Punch is predictable.

 

[Anti]

It's just very annoying how you're disregarding Weezing as some low BL slouch of a physical wall that is often a set-up fodder, which really isn't true at all :/ Then you go praise Gliscor as the best fighting resist in the game, one of the best Breloom counters in the game, etc. It's just very deceiving and far from the truth. Besides, Weezing's Sludge Bomb, despite poor coverage, is actually a good STAB option. Weezing has better defensive typing than Gliscor, which is just as huge as recovery for walls (as our friend Aggron teaches us). Also, BL/OU isn't even based on power, but usage. I don't think you can really use that against Weezing :/ Also, Weezing is in terms of reliability is above and beyond a better fighting resist than Gliscor since it has better typing (though weighing all factors they're about the same).

The point I'm making is that whether you meant to or not, you've pretty much trashed Weezing and praised Gliscor when in reality they both wall Breloom about the same (though Gliscor does beat DDtar, as you mentioned). It's just very annoying hearing how much of a set-up fodder Weezing is and its lower tier and blah blah blah when Glsicor and Weezing have about the same effectiveness overall. THAT is where I'm coming from. In other words, I feel like you're saying Gliscor is without a doubt better than Weezing when in truth it's probably more team needs and personal preference.

You see? I don't think you're really being fair ._.

I do agree though, Gliscor is probably bette for this team for the reasons you mentioned. The differnece between Weezing and gliscor is MUCH smaller than you think.

EDIT: Sorry for getting off-topic and all, but I think that did need to be brought up ^_^

 

[Dark Azelf]

It's just very annoying how you're disregarding Weezing as some low BL slouch of a physical wall that is often a set-up fodder, which really isn't true at all :/Then you go praise Gliscor as the best fighting resist in the game, one of the best Breloom counters in the game, etc.

Well Gliscor is one of the best Breloom counters in the game. The STANDARD ADAMANT sub-seed set mostly.

It's just very deceiving and far from the truth. Besides, Weezing's Sludge Bomb, despite poor coverage, is actually a good STAB option.


Then if you drop either Flamethrower OR thunderbolt, Steels, Heracross or Gyarados laugh at you.

Weezing has better defensive typing than Gliscor, which is just as huge as recovery for walls (as our friend Aggron teaches us). Also, BL/OU isn't even based on power, but usage. I don't think you can really use that against Weezing :/

Weezing usage is low, check shoddy battle

57. Weezing (6220 usages).

Also, Weezing is in terms of reliability is above and beyond a better fighting resist than Gliscor since it has better typing (though weighing all factors they're about the same).


A wall that has to resort to Pain split and rest talking over a wall with Roost ?. They are probably about equal as you say though

The point I'm making is that whether you meant to or not, you've pretty much trashed Weezing and praised Gliscor when in reality they both wall Breloom about the same (though Gliscor does beat DDtar, as you mentioned).

It's just very annoying hearing how much of a set-up fodder Weezing is and its lower tier and blah blah blah when Glsicor and Weezing have about the same effectiveness overall. THAT is where I'm coming from. In other words, I feel like you're saying Gliscor is without a doubt better than Weezing when in truth it's probably more team needs and personal preference.

You see? I don't think you're really being fair ._.

I do agree though, Gliscor is probably bette for this team for the reasons you mentioned. The differnece between Weezing and gliscor is MUCH smaller than you think.

EDIT: Sorry for getting off-topic and all, but I think that did need to be brought up
^_^

Well, i was actually saying what would be better for this team, and i AM being fair to weezing however it is Taunt set up fodder, even more so when it has to rely on Pain Split and rest talk to heal and doesnt have a good STAB move. Its not lol NU lol, by any means, but still.