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View Full Version : Thundershock On a Rock pokemon actually hit? on Yellow


Torii
September 6th, 2009, 03:12 PM
As the title describes after a long period of time using a thunder attack on pokemon yellow to a rock pokemon such as (Geodude) can actually effect them, I restarted pokemon yellow played it and to my surprise i used thundershock on brocks geodude and it did 1-2 damage i believe but the fact it actually hit, was surpising. Has this happened to anyone else Besides me? Im very curious to how it actually managed to hit.

Timbjerr
September 6th, 2009, 03:17 PM
electric attacks hit rock pokemon for neutral damage. >_>

however, the example you gave with Geodude is rather curious...Geodude being half ground-type should be immune to electric attacks. XD

Torii
September 6th, 2009, 03:20 PM
electric attacks hit rock pokemon for neutral damage. >_>

however, the example you gave with Geodude is rather curious...Geodude being half ground-type should be immune to electric attacks. XD
xD I know~ I was shocked when it hit (Lol bad Pun) It went~
Pikachu Uses Thunder Shock
Not very Effective...

Timbjerr
September 6th, 2009, 03:23 PM
My best guess is that it's a glitch in your Yellow version 'cause I've never heard of this happening before. :P

Torii
September 6th, 2009, 03:25 PM
Seems like it~ I think its kinda cool now all i need to do it trade it to G/S/C then to F/L then migrate it to platinum~ then i'll have a better pikachu~

~*!*~Tatsujin Gosuto~*!*~
September 9th, 2009, 02:36 PM
that's one cool glitch, you should be quite lucky to have a glitch that hit's ground type Pokemon with electric type attacks, consider yourself very lucky. But did you do something to the game for the game to get like that?


:t354:TG

Alli
September 9th, 2009, 05:26 PM
Since this is a thread about Yellow, which hey, is a color generation game, I'll move it there.

Le move;

Edit; About the Thundershock, though, that's a glitch I wish I had back when I first got Yellow. I lost the game before I even got past Brock because I decided not to read the battle log, so I had no idea that it had no effect.

Megaman765
September 9th, 2009, 05:34 PM
I never really understood why Electric attacks can hit rock types alone, that aren't paired with a ground typing. I always thought rock type alone was immune from electric attacks :/

Velvex the Øverlørd
September 9th, 2009, 08:25 PM
Yeah Rock is just neutral to Electricity, however ground is not effected by it, and since Geodude is Rock/Ground, as someone said earlier, it must be a glitch in your game.

Tudj
September 10th, 2009, 12:12 PM
Well seeing as though in the anime that Ash attacked Brocks Geodude (with the aid of water) and as it is like a little anime hack, they probably made it happen, although I don't recall such a thing happening, as I used geodue on level 11 for a joke against Surge and Surge got beaten.

ScizorZ
September 11th, 2009, 05:48 PM
yea, it doesnt seem to work in mine. thats why i caught a bunch of noobymon and trained them to defeat brock!

Air Pichu
September 11th, 2009, 06:43 PM
Geodude is Rock/Ground, so no Electric-Types work on it.

poliwrath10
September 13th, 2009, 03:07 AM
is not a glich in pokemon fire red at pewter gym witth static i paralizate a geodude

Zetlian2-kinra
September 13th, 2009, 04:47 AM
Yeah, yellow has alot of anime crossovers...
level 8 pidgeotto in viridan forest much?
XD

giradialkia
September 13th, 2009, 05:32 AM
level 8 pidgeotto in viridan forest much?
XD
*gasps* I thought I was the only one! Lol, that wierded me out, bout 6 years ago..

ArcanineOod
September 18th, 2009, 12:10 PM
I don't remember that happening on my Yellow, but then again it's been a long time since I've fought against Brock on Yellow.

Perhaps it is a glitch on the game, perhaps not. I'll try it out if I can bear to restart my Yellow... =3
Was Geodude part Ground Type back then? I seem to remember it only having gained its extra type after R/B/Y... I'm probably mistaken, though...
xX

Elite Overlord LeSabre™
September 18th, 2009, 12:38 PM
is not a glich in pokemon fire red at pewter gym witth static i paralizate a geodude

Static works regardless of Pokemon typing.

As for the Yellow glitch, it certainly is curious. AFAIK, Geodude has been Rock/Ground for the entire series, so there is no reason why it should affect Geodude unless the coding was altered just for Yellow (so AIMING 4 TEH HORN and such would work).

Torii
September 18th, 2009, 01:05 PM
that's one cool glitch, you should be quite lucky to have a glitch that hit's ground type Pokemon with electric type attacks, consider yourself very lucky. But did you do something to the game for the game to get like that?


:t354:TG I haven't done anything with yellow i restarted got pikachu i accidentally hit thundershock instead of quick attack (Not paying attention) and it suprisingly hit~
(Btw i re-re-started the game and it hit brocks geodude and worked again, it also worked on his onix)

Taziko
September 18th, 2009, 01:25 PM
I think this was put into the game as a refrence to the anime, kinda like the way Pikachu follows you. If I remember rightly, Thundershock hit rock types in the anime aswell so I'm pretty sure the only logical explanation is for them to re emulate that through the game.

*WishMaker*
September 18th, 2009, 02:23 PM
Are you sure it did damage? It would make a lot more sense if it didn't.
Now, in RBY, there was a bug. A harmless bug. A bug that does no good. A bug that can explain why the message "It's not very effective..." comes up, even if it it is false. It is in spoilers, because it is a long theory.

The Type Message Experiment

In Red, Blue and Yellow, you may have noticed battle messages going something like this:Enemy WHATEVER sent out DUGTRIO!
Go! VENUSAUR!
DUGTRIO used EARTHQUAKE!
It's super effective!But, you say, wait a minute... super effective? Venusaur is a Grass-type! Grass is resistant to Ground! The combination of Grass and Poison should make Ground deal normal damage since they cancel each other out, not super effective!
And indeed, that is what actually happens - the damage modifier, in spite of the game message of super-effectiveness, is 1 just like it would be if that Earthquake were hitting a Raticate. However, that message has always bugged me. My original conclusion was that the game just always used type 2. This is very logical from a programmer's point of view; it would be very natural if the game code were for example something like this:
string typemessage;
int damagemodifier = 1;
for (int i = 0; i < 2; i++) {
if (isSuperEffective(attackType, defendType[i])) {
typemessage = "It's super effective!";
damagemodifier *= 2;
}
else if (isNotVeryEffective(attackType, defendType[i])) {
typemessage = "It's not very effective...";
damagemodifier *= 0.5;
}
else if (isIneffective(attackType, defendType[i])) {
typemessage = "It doesn't affect " + defendName + "!";
damagemodifier *= 0;
}
} Basically, the game would first test the attacking type against the defender's type 1, change the battle message and multiply the damage modifier accordingly, and then do the same for type 2. The message for type 1, if any, would be overwritten with the message for type 2, if any. It made perfect sense, and I never really gave it more thought than that.
One day I was in the unofficial IRC chat when surskitty, who was playing Blue, asked why Leech Life was showing up as super effective on Zubat. I jumped up to explain that the message showed either super effective or not very effective but the damage was normal.
Then it hit me that Zubat is a Poison/Flying type. Bug is super effective on Poison (in R/B/Y) and not very effective on Flying. It was showing the message for type 1.
I hurried to Azure Heights (http://www.azureheights.com/), the most comprehensive website about R/B/Y mechanics, to see if they had it. All the information they had was that for example, if you use Vine Whip on a Tentacool (http://www.math.miami.edu/%7Ejam/azure/compendium/typechart.htm), it will be shown as super effective but actually deal normal damage.
Thus, I set out on a quest to find the real way the game decides which message to display. I took out my Yellow and used my type tool (http://www.dragonflycave.com/typetool.asp) to find out all possible type combinations where one type was weak and the other resistant, took out the ones that actually occurred in the game, and started testing. This was what I got after trying all the possibilities (the numbers beside the type names are the type numbers in the game code):
Attack typeType 1Type 2ResultType used Fighting (1)Ice (25)Flying (2)Super effectiveType 1 Fighting (1)Ice (25)Psychic (24)Super effectiveType 1 Fighting (1)Rock (5)Flying (2)Super effectiveType 1 Fighting (1)Normal (0)Flying (2)Not very effectiveType 2 Poison (3)Grass (22)Poison (3)Not very effectiveType 2 Poison (3)Bug (7)Poison (3)Super effectiveType 1 Ground (4)Grass (22)Poison (3)Super effectiveType 2 Ground (4)Bug (7)Poison (3)Super effectiveType 2 Bug (7)Poison (3)Flying (2)Super effectiveType 1 Bug (7)Ghost (8)Poison (3)Super effectiveType 2 Fire (20)Water (21)Ice (25)Not very effectiveType 1 Grass (22)Water (21)Poison (3)Super effectiveType 1 Grass (22)Water (21)Flying (2)Not very effectiveType 2 Grass (22)Rock (5)Flying (2)Not very effectiveType 2 Electric (23)Dragon (26)Flying (2)Not very effectiveType 1 Electric (23)Electric (23)Flying (2)Super effectiveType 2 Ice (25)Ice (25)Flying (2)Super effectiveType 2 Ice (25)Water (21)Flying (2)Super effectiveType 2 Unfortunately, I couldn't make heads or tails of this. I had been speculating that it could even have something to do with whether the type numbers were odd or even or which was the highest, but one theory after another was proven incorrect, and when we had all the data there seemed to be no sense to it whatsoever. Some of it was very decidedly bizarre:
Attack typeType 1Type 2ResultType used Poison (3)Grass (22)Poison (3)Not very effectiveType 2 Poison (3)Bug (7)Poison (3)Super effectiveType 1 Ground (4)Grass (22)Poison (3)Super effectiveType 2 Ground (4)Bug (7)Poison (3)Super effectiveType 2 The exact same two types being attacked, first by Poison and then by Ground, but in one case both are shown as super effective according to type 2 but in the other one is shown as not very effective according to type 2 and the other super effective according to type 1. It just didn't make sense.
I resorted to Sharking. I don't actually have a GameShark, but I started my VisualBoy Advance emulator and Yellow ROM using a save file from a video of a guy beating the game in a bizarrely short time using a Mew Glitched Nidoking that had been elevated to level 100 through another glitch. After some searching on the Internet I finally found a code for modifying a Pokémon's type.
I started by reversing some of the type combinations I had already tried, since I had figured it would give a lot of information to know whether it mattered which type was which. I made Nidoking a Flying/Poison type and got it attacked with a Leech Life, and got super effective, the same result as when a Poison/Flying Pokémon is attacked with a Bug attack. I tried some more and those were all the same as when the types were the other way around so I concluded that only the combination mattered, not which was type 1 and which was type 2.
But that was not the only reason I had resorted to Sharking that Nidoking. Using the type tool again, I found out which attacking type offered the most possible weakness/resistance-conflict type combinations (as more constants are always a good thing), and it turned out to be Grass, with 18 different such combinations to test: Fire, Grass, Poison, Flying, Bug and Dragon paired with Water, Ground and Rock.
One of those combinations, as you might notice, is Poison/Water, and when I came to that I realized something odd: the game was showing it as not very effective even though I had previously written that Grass on Water/Poison was super effective. I tried it again to make sure; then I remembered that I had actually never tried a Grass attack on Tentacool but instead trusted what Azure Heights said. I started up my real Yellow to make sure nothing was being mucked up in any way and tested a Grass attack on Tentacool, and it was not very effective after all. Phew. That could have messed things up.
Finally I got the results:
Attack typeType 1Type 2ResultType used Fighting (1)Ice (25)Flying (2)Super effectiveType 1 Fighting (1)Ice (25)Psychic (24)Super effectiveType 1 Fighting (1)Rock (5)Flying (2)Super effectiveType 1 Fighting (1)Normal (0)Flying (2)Not very effectiveType 2 Poison (3)Grass (22)Poison (3)Not very effectiveType 2 Poison (3)Bug (7)Poison (3)Super effectiveType 1 Ground (4)Grass (22)Poison (3)Super effectiveType 2 Ground (4)Bug (7)Poison (3)Super effectiveType 2 Bug (7)Poison (3)Flying (2)Super effectiveType 1 Bug (7)Ghost (8)Poison (3)Super effectiveType 2 Fire (20)Water (21)Ice (25)Not very effectiveType 1 Grass (22)Water (21)Poison (3)Not very effectiveType 2 Grass (22)Water (21)Flying (2)Not very effectiveType 2 Grass (22)Rock (5)Flying (2)Not very effectiveType 2 Grass (22)Fire (20)Water (21)Super effectiveType 2 Grass (22)Fire (20)Ground (4)Super effectiveType 2 Grass (22)Fire (20)Rock (5)Super effectiveType 2 Grass (22)Grass (22)Water (21)Not very effectiveType 1 Grass (22)Grass (22)Ground (4)Super effectiveType 2 Grass (22)Grass (22)Rock (5)Super effectiveType 2 Grass (22)Poison (3)Ground (4)Not very effectiveType 1 Grass (22)Poison (3)Rock (5)Super effectiveType 2 Grass (22)Flying (2)Ground (4)Not very effectiveType 1 Grass (22)Bug (7)Water (21)Not very effectiveType 1 Grass (22)Bug (7)Ground (4)Not very effectiveType 1 Grass (22)Bug (7)Rock (5)Super effectiveType 2 Grass (22)Dragon (26)Water (21)Not very effectiveType 1 Grass (22)Dragon (26)Ground (4)Not very effectiveType 1 Grass (22)Dragon (26)Rock (5)Not very effectiveType 1 Electric (23)Dragon (26)Flying (2)Not very effectiveType 1 Electric (23)Electric (23)Flying (2)Super effectiveType 2 Ice (25)Ice (25)Flying (2)Super effectiveType 2 Ice (25)Water (21)Flying (2)Super effectiveType 2 Again, constants are good, so I put together a table of some data with as many constants as possible, organized accordingly:
Attack typeType 1Type 2ResultType used Grass (22)Fire (20)Water (21)Super effectiveType 2 Grass (22)Grass (22)Water (21)Not very effectiveType 1 Grass (22)Poison (3)Water (21)Not very effectiveType 1 Grass (22)Flying (2)Water (21)Not very effectiveType 1 Grass (22)Bug (7)Water (21)Not very effectiveType 1 Grass (22)Dragon (26)Water (21)Not very effectiveType 1 Attack typeType 1Type 2ResultType used Grass (22)Fire (20)Ground (4)Super effectiveType 2 Grass (22)Grass (22)Ground (4)Super effectiveType 2 Grass (22)Poison (3)Ground (4)Not very effectiveType 1 Grass (22)Flying (2)Ground (4)Not very effectiveType 1 Grass (22)Bug (7)Ground (4)Not very effectiveType 1 Grass (22)Dragon (26)Ground (4)Not very effectiveType 1 Attack typeType 1Type 2ResultType used Grass (22)Fire (20)Rock (5)Super effectiveType 2 Grass (22)Grass (22)Rock (5)Super effectiveType 2 Grass (22)Poison (3)Rock (5)Super effectiveType 2 Grass (22)Flying (2)Rock (5)Not very effectiveType 1 Grass (22)Bug (7)Rock (5)Super effectiveType 2 Grass (22)Dragon (26)Rock (5)Not very effectiveType 1 Unfortunately, however, I couldn't see any discernible rule in this either, and therefore could only come to the conclusion that either the game makers were on crack and made an extremely complicated formula just to pointlessly determine this or they somehow just programmed it with random if statements which don't bring up any pattern.
However, Captain Mofocious of the forums later posted about having found the actual type advantage table from the game, the order of which explains everything. Instead of being a table, essentially, it is a list of each type combination that does not deal normal damage with the special damage it does:


Water 2x vs. Fire
Fire 2x vs. Grass
Fire 2x vs. Ice
Grass 2x vs. Water
Electric 2x vs. Water
Water 2x vs. Rock
Ground 0x vs. Flying
Water 1/2x vs. Water
Fire 1/2x vs. Fire
Electric 1/2x vs. Electric
Ice 1/2x vs. Ice
Grass 1/2x vs. Grass
Psychic 1/2x vs. Psychic
Fire 1/2x vs. Water
Grass 1/2x vs. Fire
Water 1/2x vs. Grass
Electric 1/2x vs. Grass
Normal 1/2x vs. Rock
Normal 0x vs. Ghost
Ghost 2x vs. Ghost
Fire 2x vs. Bug
Fire 1/2x vs. Rock
Water 2x vs. Ground
Electric 0x vs. Ground
Electric 2x vs. Flying
Grass 2x vs. Ground
Grass 1/2x vs. Flying
Grass 1/2x vs. Poison
Grass 2x vs. Rock
Grass 1/2x vs. Flying
Ice 1/2x vs. Water
Ice 2x vs. Grass
Ice 2x vs. Ground
Ice 2x vs. Flying
Fighting 2x vs. Normal
Fighting 1/2x vs. Poison
Fighting 1/2x vs. Flying
Fighting 1/2x vs. Psychic
Fighting 1/2x vs. Bug
Fighting 2x vs. Rock
Fighting 2x vs. Ice
Fighting 0x vs. Ghost
Poison 2x vs. Grass
Poison 1/2x vs. Poison
Poison 1/2x vs. Ground
Poison 2x vs. Bug
Poison 1/2x vs. Rock
Poison 1/2x vs. Ghost
Ground 2x vs. Fire
Ground 2x vs. Electric
Ground 1/2x vs. Grass
Ground 1/2x vs. Bug
Ground 2x vs. Rock
Ground 2x vs. Poison
Flying 1/2x vs. Electric
Flying 2x vs. Fighting
Flying 2x vs. Bug
Flying 2x vs. Grass
Flying 1/2x vs. Rock
Psychic 2x vs. Fighting
Psychic 2x vs. Poison
Bug 1/2x vs. Fire
Bug 2x vs. Grass
Bug 1/2x vs. Fighting
Bug 1/2x vs. Flying
Bug 2x vs. Psychic
Bug 1/2x vs. Ghost
Bug 2x vs. Poison
Rock 2x vs. Fire
Rock 1/2x vs. Fighting
Rock 1/2x vs. Ground
Rock 2x vs. Flying
Rock 2x vs. Bug
Rock 2x vs. Ice
Ghost 0x vs. Normal
Ghost 0x vs. Psychic
Fire 1/2x vs. Dragon
Water 1/2x vs. Dragon
Electric 1/2x vs. Dragon
Grass 1/2x vs. Dragon
Ice 2x vs. Dragon
Dragon 2x vs. Dragon

This is very enlightening. Firstly and most importantly for this experiment, it shows which weaknesses and resistances override the others. When a Pokémon is hit by an attack, the game goes down through the chart, finds any weaknesses and resistances that should be applying (one or two), and for each of them changes the message, so that it shows the message for whichever weakness comes later. (It turned out I had made a mistake and written down that Grass showed up as super effective against Fire/Water - in fact it says not very effective as I reverified, so that is still consistent. If you spot anything else in the result table above that doesn't fit with this, do let me know so I can retest it.)
Additionally, it is a wonderful insight into the programmers' minds. It starts off with the basic elemental weaknesses and Ground vs. Flying, the stuff that's likely to be the first they thought of, as well as taking all the types that resist themselves except Poison and adding that in. Then they decide, "Okay, this is way too disorganized. Let's do this in some sensible order." And then they proceed, starting with Normal attacking anything, throw in Ghost vs. Ghost just so they won't forget, go on with Fire (or rather, everything they hadn't done before in the elemental jumble that started the chart), and then proceed in the official ordering of the types that we see in the type chart in the instruction booklet - Normal, Fire, Water, Electric, Grass, Ice, Fighting, Poison, Ground, Flying, Psychic, Bug, Rock, Ghost, Dragon - rather than their numerical order in the game code (which is completely different, as shown in the table above). Perhaps they created the instruction booklet type chart somewhere in between and were even copying down from that? And then when they've dealt with Ghost, suddenly we get both the offensive and defensive specifics for the Dragon type (explaining why, as many people had noted, Dragon always took precedence when it was involved), as if that type were a last-minute addition (I wouldn't be surprised, considering how there are only three Dragon-types in the game and one Dragon attack, with Gyarados being the puzzling Water/Flying combination). One mystery solved and a lot more only vaguely related found out!


I do not claim the above text to be mine in any way. I give full credits to The Cave Of Dragonflies www.dragonflycave.com for the explanation.

curiousnathan
September 25th, 2009, 01:24 AM
Hang On, that happened to me once! It happened when i was battling brock with my pikachu! It only did a tad of damage, but hey; every bit of damage counts right!? ;)

Sonikku
September 25th, 2009, 03:12 AM
that's one cool glitch, you should be quite lucky to have a glitch that hit's ground type Pokemon with electric type attacks, consider yourself very lucky. But did you do something to the game for the game to get like that?


:t354:TG
What do you guys mean I thought it happened to everybody I love my my little pika

Greene1516
September 25th, 2009, 05:26 AM
Seems like it~ I think its kinda cool now all i need to do it trade it to G/S/C then to F/L then migrate it to platinum~ then i'll have a better pikachu~

That's all great except you can't trade Gen.1 or Gen.2 Pokemon onto a Gen. 3 game.

But just to clear this up, it was confirmed years ago that Brock's Pokemon were set in the game as just Rock type, one to reference the anime, and two so that you actually had a chance of beating him with Piachu.

Saud-Blaziken
September 25th, 2009, 05:54 AM
Seems like it~ I think its kinda cool now all i need to do it trade it to G/S/C then to F/L then migrate it to platinum~ then i'll have a better pikachu~

You can migrate from G/S/C to FireRed And LeafGreen???
and ever thought that the Geodude might have the glitch not pikachu...

tente2
September 25th, 2009, 05:28 PM
WHY?I SUFFERED ON BROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's not fair!