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View Full Version : The Staff Feedback Thread! [read the first post!]


shenanigans
March 29th, 2013, 04:00 AM
The staff have decided that we'd like the thoughts of the members on how we, both as a team and as individuals, are doing running the forum. While the standard procedure for assessment of a moderator's performance is a chat about them between the higher staff, we obviously only see the staff side of them. This thread, therefore, is your opportunity to tell us what you think of us from a member's perspective rather than a staff member's perspective. So, how does this work?

In this thread, we'd like to invite you to give us your honest opinions on the presence and actions of both the moderators and the higher staff team on the public forums. While we may all think we're doing well, it's your perspective of us that's the one that matters. As such, anything you feel we could be doing better, we need to know about. That's anything from "the higher staff could be more visible on the forums" to "[staff member x] could do with being more active in their section". If it's something that's bothering you, it's something worth posting here, basically.

A few things of note:

I'll re-iterate here that, in this thread, you may give feedback for an individual staff member up to and including the administrators. Indeed, here, and here alone, it's encouraged. This is the only thread in which you may do this at present.
No personal gripes with staff, please. "Razor Leaf gave me an infraction once and I didn't like it at all" is not constructive criticism. As always, this is a personal matter to be discussed individually with the staff member in question, either via PM or with a higher staff member. Do not bring up things like this here as that is not at all what this thread is intended to be about.
No rants. We want constructive criticism only. That means that we don't want you to use this thread as an opportunity to moan about how much you hate us all and how terrible we are and etc. We want problems or suggestions highlighted and we want to work with you to solve or implement them. We don't want walls of text about how bad we are, because that solves absolutely nothing.
Let people have their own opinions. We want opinions representative of the memberbase here, not discussions about whether or not x is a problem or if y is doing their job properly. That's for the staff to discuss between themselves, and with the member(s) presenting the issue. Not for other members to jump in and disagree with.
We want honest opinions of all levels of staff and, as long as the opinions are presented properly, even if we don't like what we hear we won't be judging you or punishing you for voicing your opinions. You will not be infracted, ranted at, etc. for giving a proper and honest opinion. If you feel a staff member is attacking you for your opinion in this thread then please PM me or another higher staff member and we'll sort it out.
All feedback, adhering to the above rules, is helpful. Don't be afraid to tell us what we're best at either!


Now for the nasty part. I'll say now that, as many people who know me will agree with, I'm not usually a massively harsh staff member. In this thread, that changes - we really want this thread to be constructive in a proper manner and it simply can't do that if it's being approached the wrong way by anyone. As such, the other staff and I are going to be coming down hard on anyone who doesn't adhere to the above guidelines. Basically if you go off on one ranting about how rubbish we all are, bringing up personal quarrels with staff members, etc., don't be surprised if you end up with an infraction. I'm hoping that won't have to happen, but it's worth mentioning.

So, that said, I'll go ahead and post this. Any questions, PM me with. Otherwise, go crazy! Or, rather, don't.

http://pldh.net/media/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite_animated_front/175.gif

Anna
March 29th, 2013, 07:32 AM
Well I've never really taken issue with any staff members so I didn't really have anything to say beyond "good job, keep it up". But then I guess hstaff really could be more visible- from just kind of thinking about it I really don't see brightly coloured usernames around as much as they probably could be. I mean there could be a number of factors playing into that- the fact that I lurk PA pretty exclusively, the fact that there aren't even as many hstaff as compared to mods and certainly not to supporters or members, etc. But also, it seems brightly coloured names are in a very small percentage of threads even compared to some moderately active members. So yeah I think could be worked on.

Another thing is that we as members don't really know what goes on behind the scenes. Small Updates & Changes is helping, and most of us see thread merges and such. But a lot of discussion- probably- is so very secretive that we barely know what you guys even do. Does that make any sort of sense at all? I'm not sure what I'm asking here because I'm fine with being secretive but yeah. Idk a lot of what mods do, because I'm sure they do a lot more than what we see out here.

And finally, hstaff- y'all are making me happy by taking care of things in PA. Thank youuu ♥

Vital
March 29th, 2013, 08:11 AM
Alright, let's do this. I can only critic people that I know well enough, considering I don't venture into the Pokemon part of the forum much. So sorry if you're not on. :c Gonna start off with the big cheese first. Get it? Cause you're yellow... no?

Razor Leaf - In all honesty RL, you're doing a good job as an Smod. Better than how you were doing as a regular mod in OCD in my opinion, you're able to step out of that once place and go everywhere. And ever since the promotion, I see you around a lot more, which is a definite plus. You also made this thread. Don't know if it was your idea to begin with, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. :3 On a personal level, you're a really nice guy, and very very friendly. You're doing fine as an Smod, keep it up.

Patchisou Yutohru - I'm only saying what I honestly feel. I think you're a cool guy Nick, and I personally have nothing against you. You're honest and direct usually. But I also feel that sometimes you can be a little harsh. :c I'm terrible at detecting sarcasm, especially online, but from what I see, you can become a little sarcastic at times, and I find myself going "Damn". But I've also seen your commitment to the site, and that's important. You're good at your job, just perhaps dial it down on the mean streak. :c

Livewire - You're too obsessed with Batman. Go home, he's not that great. Live my man. You're rocking the Bat Cave. You're active, you post a lot in the section, both threads and posts, and you're got a cool personality that doesn't intimidate me. I actually don't have much to criticize on your part either except for maybe stop showing of that picture of your finger. Hope you find your Robin to assist you in the near future. But for the meanwhile, you're running things well.

sammi-sam - Time for OVP Overlord #1. Sammi, I've known you for a long time now, so I can be 100% and say that at a personal level, you're amazing. Helpful, kind, smart, etc, etc. You've also made OVP a lot more fun with the weekly Poll of the Week competition. You're doing fine, in my opinion, keep up the good work.

Shining Raichu - OVP Overlord #2 and the Clubs Ringleader as well. Andy, on a personal level, you're also really nice. I remember that one time I got criticed for something I said and you made me feel better. You're a really nice guy, and that is great for a mod. A small critic I'd have to give, and maybe this is just me not being more aware, but I feel like you're activity on the forum could do with a tad bit of an improvement. I haven't noticed you around as much these days. I might be a oblivious to it, or perhaps I'm recalling the last time we actually talked Hit me up soon Andy!. But yeah, a tad bit more activity. :3

BinaryPeaches - Tara! Okay, I'll be 100% honest, my judgement here is going to be based on the little communication we've had recently. But you need to be more active. :c You said it yourself that you aren't on that much, and that's a good thing! Since you already know your fault, you can take steps to fix it, which is perfect. Aside from that, you're doing fine. I can't really judge on a personal level, since I don't believe we've ever talked. But from the posts that I've seen, you seem friendly, and that's a plus for me.

Netto Azure - Ah, my little Netto. I knew you before you were a mod, and I can say without hesitancy that you are a sweetheart. You're simply a really nice and helpful guy, and I appreciate that. You also seem to be very active on the board, but I'm not so sure about in your section. I haven't been to OT in a while, and when I do, I frequent 2 or 3 threads only, but your name hasn't popped up for me. :c

Forever - Cause Nica asked. Nica, I don't venture in the Unova section at all. I do see you on the Battle Server constantly and I can honestly say that you are a very outgoing, happy, and perhaps hyper person. That's a good thing, in case you weren't sure. =P I'm going to hazard a guess and say you are extremely active, considering you've got the highest post count in the whole forum and also mod the current Pokemon generation. You're also cute, but let's not go there. You're nice and quirky and active. And that's very good. ;D

Cirno - I might not post in NU much, but I venture there sometimes. I also knew you before you were made mod there, and you do your job perfectly imo. You greet the new guys like a role model. You show them where to go, what to do, etc etc. You do your job perfectly. Don't change




I'm aware that it might look like I'm kissing up to the staff, but the above is how I really feel. Perhaps it helps that I know many of them personally, but I feel like the staff (or at least the staff of the places I frequent) are doing generally fine, albeit perhaps they could be a tad bit more active. Anyway, this was fun, I hope you guys found my comments helpful or inspiring!

Edit: Oh! I forgot to say that the lack of activity is also understandable, considering we do have lives outside of PC and are human. I understand. =P

Team Fail
March 29th, 2013, 08:13 AM
I'm really pleased with what the staff are currently doing to ensure the site runs smoothly and in an orderly fashion, myself. The only major concern that I really have is that I don't see a lot of the higher of the H-Staff getting involved with the members. I do see them from time to time, but it's not too often. Then again, it could probably be because I only browser a few different forums here on PC, but it'd be really cool to be able to chat with them more often.

Perhaps having the H-Staff integrate with members of the forum more might help newer members to not be so nervous towards them (I do know that there are some H-Staff that already do that, but I'm not wanting to point fingers). I know I was when I was a new member here. Other than that, the staff are doing a really good job in taking care of the forum, so perhaps I should give my thanks.

Kura
March 29th, 2013, 09:24 AM
First of all, I just want to say that I'm thankful for this thread because I think it's a great idea, and a good way to sort of.. let members who are intimidated by on-to-one contact with moderators, or feel like their opinion might not matter to the staff- of course providing that this thread be used properly and not for ranting purposes.

But I digress, there are a few things that I would like to suggest, but I hope you don't mind that I add this a little later once I've had a good think about what I think is worth pointing out.

I just wanted to put a mention on this thread for now, and suggest that you, Razorleaf, maybe bold this part of your first post:
"Basically if you go off on one ranting about how rubbish we all are, bringing up personal quarrels with staff members, etc., don't be surprised if you end up with an infraction. I'm hoping that won't have to happen, but it's worth mentioning."

But I'm happy that a thread like this is finally up, as it gives really good feedback. Mods IMO are there to make the experience of members and the community that much smoother, so now that it is easier to tell you all what sort of things we would like to see, I think that we can make relations with each other that much better.

droomph
March 29th, 2013, 09:57 AM
Other than some issues with some of their behavior elsewhere, I think you guys are doing fine.

But I want you guys to remember that even if it is "elsewhere" and you can't get into trouble with it here (because different website and all), it still carries over quite a bit and affects how I view you guys as anything here.

It hasn't happened much, but for the times it has, I just want you guys to keep that in mind before going off on anyone, or saying something that might not sit right with that person or anything.

Melody
March 29th, 2013, 11:18 AM
I have to say that overall PC seems to be making progress in the right directions. Threads like Small Changes are slowly thinning the thick curtain that staff works behind, new blood flows throughout the staff in all rank levels ensuring that PC can move forward even more.

Since my recent return, I have to admit to being pretty well-treated and received. I didn't expect some random mod to have called out for me in my absence nor did I expect that a routine quarterly lurk session to check PMs here was going to result in me returning to PC. I have to thank Derozio for that. Everyone has been pretty nice, particularly the staff I have thus far interacted with since my return. So no complaints in that department.

The other mods I've met that are new (As in weren't mods when I left) all seem fairly reliable and nice and dependable. That goes a long way in renewing and refreshing PC and keeping it that way in my opinion, and I like it.

As for improvements, I'm afraid I haven't been back long enough to observe anything I find to be needing in improvement yet, but I will pop back over here with more suggestions for the entire staff, and/or specific staff members if I do think of something.

Shiny Celebi
March 29th, 2013, 11:30 AM
Well, I havent personally had many encounters with individual staff members here but from where Im standing, you all are doing a pretty good job and keep this place good and organized. Keep up the good work :)

Pichu2Pikachu2Raichu
March 29th, 2013, 02:34 PM
Well I have a few mods as friends.They are witty, funny and fun to communicate with on PC, and love to receive VM's from them or anyone for that matter. I like reading their posts and threads.

Your staff in general, they seem to know what they are talking about on the forum, and are doing a really good job from what I can tell you picked your staff well and I should know, I am the Head Administrator on my own computing forum for 4 years now and I can tell your mods are doing a great job.

I hope this feedback helps.

Keep up the great work, PC is the bomb right now!

shenanigans
March 29th, 2013, 03:57 PM
I'm not gonna reply to everything posted so far (although I do intend to in time) but one thing that hits me which I never considered, and I don't think many of us considered, is just how little of what's going on behind the scenes, so to speak, is known by some people. I guess that, as staff, we know this - we're involved in mod lounge discussions and if it's not in the lounge, it's probably in HQ. But it never really hit me that a lot of people don't know what goes on at lounge level in the first place. While the actual content of staff forums is tightly guarded, their purposes don't really need to be so.

I might as well as explain that now; I can't see it being anything but helpful for members to know who deals with what on staff, and how we go about making decisions. There are three levels of staff forums in which decisions are made; the Mod & Admin Lounge, The Community Headquarters and an admin forum with a name that I can't for the life of me remember! As you'd probably imagine, each becomes available as you move up the staff ranks; mods have the Lounge, smods have HQ, and admins have their... thing.

Most of the threads related to section-specific things such as forum name changes, sub-forums, and minor implementations are usually discussed in the Mod & Admin Lounge. For example, when I modded Other Chat, the suggestion to change its name was brought up by Livewire and in that forum. Another example is this very thread; it's not a major forum-wide implementation so it was posted in there. So, for mods, those are the kinda things that keep us busy behind the scenes; forum-specific discussions and little things to be implemented. On occasion, ban appeals also show up in there as well as quick questions about moderating procedures. Basically the staff catch-all forum plus specific section changes.

The next step up is what keeps the supermods and administrators busy, and contributes in part to why ye see a bit less of us around the forums sometimes (not that that's acceptable). The Community Headquarters, HQ for short, involves discussion of the more major forum-wide changes, discussion of things which didn't conclude in the Mod & Admin Lounge, additions of new features, modifications to the rules, new themes, that sort of stuff. It's also where many promotions and demotions are discussed; promoting members and promoting or removing moderators to smods or members respectively is all discussed in HQ. Rather than a discussion alone like in the Lounge, decisions are made in HQ via voting; if the majority of higher staff vote positively for an idea then it's implemented and if they don't, it isn't. Fairly straightforward.

As I'm not an admin I'd not know exactly what goes on aside from the promotion and demotion of super mods in the admin forums but it'd be... just about everything else, I guess!

I really don't honestly think that staff mean to be so secretive that these sorts of things aren't common knowledge around the forums. It's not leaking to reveal to members simply how staff works behind the scenes - indeed, I think it helps if you guys have an understanding of who does what around here. While I'm obviously not about to go around giving details of what specifically is being discussed in the hidden forums, this should hopefully give you the general idea. I feel like members should be totally entitled to know what it is that their staff are doing when they're mysteriously "Viewing Thread" and that our jobs do indeed extend beyond closing threads and whatnot. So, for those of you who didn't know the roles of certain levels of staff, this should help ye out a wee bit! :D

Aslan
March 30th, 2013, 02:02 AM
Being on this forum for a few months back on my old account, I can safely say that PC's staff are doing a great job! I appreciate they try and keep their section active by hosting events and activities rather than just locking threads all the time and barely observing their section at all only coming in when really necessary, like what I've seen on some other forums. AIl in all the mods are doing wonderful mantaining activity in their section except the only complaint I suppose I'd have is that the staff should do something to promote activity in barely alive sections such as Tabletop Games, but I'm not sure if this comes into relevance with this thread.

Also around moderators, I'm glad they also chat with more than just those of there own rank and above. They're great, funny and kind people to be around and I feel happy chatting with them. I like how they try and talk with all sorts of people rather than only bothering to chat with certain ranksl. Also I love their helpfulness towards those who have a problem and they're overall great, approachable people.

I've only got one major complaint though. Like Derk, I feel really intimidated around h-staff. I don't think this should be the case, that the h-staff are supposed to be people you can easily approach and comfortably talk to. They're great people don't get me wrong, but something just ticks inside me and my stomach squirms when I'm around h-staff to be completely honest. I don't know, but I feel like I'm not meant to have this feeling, that I should feel comfortable and confident to approach them and ask any questions or report an issue. But yeah like Derk, I just feel like I can't be myself around h-staff and I get paranoid on the things I say when giving my opinion,that they might make them completely judge me as who knows what? D:. But yeah I'm definitely not trying to attack anyone, although if I have offended anybody then I'm really sorry. ;___;

bobandbill
March 30th, 2013, 02:19 AM
Well, any reason in particular to the above two posts on why h-staff are intimidating (at least more so than mods, I presume)? Is it due to a lack of talking with other members/in threads for example, or something else? Something more specific in that regard would be helpful is all.

AWsquared
March 30th, 2013, 03:15 AM
I don't know, really. Even after being on the forum for a year, I don't have much feedback to give to the staff. This is probably cause I have barely interacted with alot of the staff in my time here. But I guess it's enough to give some feedback.

Not really anything to critique about the staff of PC. I think you're all doing a wonderful job from what I've seen. You guys can really keep these forums in place and in tip-top shape. The h-staff know what they're doing when it comes to picking mods, cause the one they pick know how to control their section well. The mods are always engaging with their section and the people who post in it by creating discussions and events that boost activity. The mods themselves know how to makes these forums lively. I haven't gotten to know alot of them on a personal level, but the one I have, are lively and very friendly people. Alot of them have made me feel welcome in my time here and are also very helpful as well. I feel comfortable chatting with them and I can relate to them.

I would have to agree on Twilight Sky and Narnia on the h-staff being somewhat intimidating. I think the reason behind it is definitely the lack of interaction between other members in threads and on the forum in general. Probably because they're around and seen a bit less than the mods are due to having alot more responsibilities around the forum. Though a bit more interacting around the forums/ talking with other members will help a bit.

Kura
March 30th, 2013, 03:36 AM
I've just been reading a bit here and I think the reason HStaff (or staff in general) is intimidating is because.. well they're authority, and people just see them as authority until they chat and get to know them. It can be quite hard for some HStaff to do that and post around when they are busy doing the more technical side of taking care of PC and don't have time to post around..

I think maybe a good solution to this is that maybe in the Official Forums section here, there can be a thread where the mods can write a little blurb about themselves just to seem a bit more like a person here instead of just a bolded name. I understand that not all mods/ staff want to reveal too much about themselves, but even if it's something like "Hi I'm a mod of __ and I like __ music. If you have a question about __ forums, then I'm usually on australian timezone __ and feel free to message me if you need anything. I wont bite." It just might take the intimidation factor out because you get to see a glimpse of their personality and might be a bit more approachable?

I am thinking a bit more like how the beginning post in the old mentor thread in new users welcome. Obviously this thread isn't gonna be a mentor thing, but just like a little extension to the "Forum leaders" thing?

Just a suggestion anyway :3

bobandbill
March 30th, 2013, 03:59 AM
In a way I suppose that would be covered in the 'About Me' blurb/s on the profile page of each user, including mods... so in a way that's already accessible to everyone. Admittedly not so 'promoted' as a separate thread about it would be, but if it's a problem mostly with hstaff than with mods in general (unless a lot of people are scared by mods due to the position and all - and in all honesty I think that's always going to be a factor regardless of how approachable one may try to be) then I wonder if it's the way to solve the issue. Makes more sense if it's a general issue for staff all over.

abnegation
March 30th, 2013, 04:15 AM
Honestly, staff who come across as professional can also usually seem intimidating too. Especially those with busy lives who sometimes can be quite short and to the point at times. We do all try to be approachable as a team however, but sometimes it can be like walking into work and dealing with customers as you log onto PC and see a bunch of reports. And we all know that even in our best intentions, we're not always at our best when we deal with every matter involving helping out or working on things.

I think I personally fall under the bracket of seeming intimidating to some members, I've been told that in fact. But in truth I wouldn't have anything to hurt anyone with even if I wanted to, I actually love getting to know people. Some staff get plighted with the stigma of being "intimidating" for simply doing their job of moderating and attending issues, and I find that a little upsetting in a way. I feel that we would be a lot less intimidating if we got more involved, but at the same time staff are actually quite busy with the upkeep of the forum at the same time. So I would be happy to have people approach me and try get to know me, talk about things, and share interests.

So the first thing I'll be doing personally once I get a bit more active again, is writing an About Me, and being a lot more responsive with Visitor Messages. But just remember that higher staff are just people who were members that really wanted to be mods or super mods, who all made dumb threads about Pikachu, all used ugly smilies, and posted in neon red colours and unreadable fonts. Nothing about them has changed, they've just learned to look a lot less like newbies. They once were though, so remember, they're members of PC the same way you are, and I speak for us all when I say that we don't try to be intimidating, so try getting to know some of them if you think you guys might get along.

droomph
March 30th, 2013, 10:43 AM
In a way I suppose that would be covered in the 'About Me' blurb/s on the profile page of each user, including mods... so in a way that's already accessible to everyone. Admittedly not so 'promoted' as a separate thread about it would be, but if it's a problem mostly with hstaff than with mods in general (unless a lot of people are scared by mods due tot he position and all - and in all honesty I think that's always going to be a factor regardless of how approachable one may try to be) then I wonder if it's the way to solve the issue. Makes more sense if it's a general issue for staff all over.Some staff get plighted with the stigma of being "intimidating" for simply doing their job of moderating and attending issues,

Well another factor is the whole "you seem professional" type of attitude.

If you can just be a bit more visible with the "hey guys I'm here to party" than the "you made a mistake" attitude (which is pretty reasonable but not somethig to be attracted to) then the new members will see that "oh color doesn't make you any different than me".

abnegation
March 30th, 2013, 11:27 AM
Well another factor is the whole "you seem professional" type of attitude.

If you can just be a bit more visible with the "hey guys I'm here to party" than the "you made a mistake" attitude (which is pretty reasonable but not something to be attracted to) then the new members will see that "oh color doesn't make you any different than me".
Well the thing is, if someone makes a mistake, the more visible with the "hey guys I'm here to party" attitude we are, the more trouble and offences that go around the forum. There's no harm in being firm, and I feel that so long as it gets the point across without being rude it's completely acceptable. Obviously we like to ensure that the staff is both approachable and does their job, and if a staff member is rude then they are punished in one way or the other. One misconception is that the staff members are above the rules, but in truth, we actually have our own set of rules on how to act on the forum which simply add on to the ones which stand to every member.

It is my own point that the more approachable staff members are the better, which will be reflected upon by us with the existence of this thread, but do remember that it's not really liable to assume that staff members are going to present a "we're here to party attitude", because there's often need to be firm. At the same time, staff members are enforcing rules, not initiating conversation relating to the user's interests. If ever you think that when a staff member handling your broken rule is a personal attack, it means that you're taking things a little seriously, and/or the wrong way. My point stands, staff members are there to handle rule breaking objectively, sugar coating is a personal addition for some members. Just remember that personal discussions can be held between staff and members via PM's/VM's and chat threads, but when staff members deal with issues on the forums it's them doing their job. We can only hope that there will be as much curtsy shown from staff as possible, and perhaps that will be something we begin to monitor more tightly after this thread, to add to our standards.

Arago
March 30th, 2013, 08:12 PM
Why are people intimidated by people on the internet?

Zorua
March 30th, 2013, 08:19 PM
Why are people intimidated by people on the internet?

(7:33 PM) surfingstars: for people like me, it's scary exactly -because- it's not body language. You're being judged on what you -say-, and because people can't see you express hand motions or anything like that to emphasize on what you're saying or anything like that(which is why smilies exist, more or less, to convey emotions of -some- sort), it becomes a fairly scary predicament
(7:35 PM) surfingstars: like there are those people who don't like to use smilies much, but they're really fun and enjoyable people. Problem is, you can't really see them behind the screen, so how would you know what facial expression they're making, what they're doing in reaction to what you're saying , things of that nature. Call it overanalyzation if you will, but interaction with people from the internet is the same as interacting with someone else irl. The only difference is that you're not able to see their expression or what they feel, and things like that
and we question it fairly often
(7:35 PM) surfingstars: "what do they think of me?" "Do I actually make them smile nad laugh, despite them using 'lol' ??" "I hope I dont annoy them, they make posts like they're annoyed but i can't really tell"
(7:36 PM) surfingstars: things like that
because we don't pay attention to the glass that separates the person and the screen
we pay attention to the perosn
*person


I have no idea whether or not that actually answers your question, but that's from my perspective.

Arago
March 30th, 2013, 08:25 PM
Why can't you just post what you want to post without worrying about things like that? And why is it different in the case of if it's a higher staff member?

droomph
March 30th, 2013, 08:29 PM
Why are people intimidated by people on the internet?It's more of a subtle change in how you express yourself.

In the real world, where you can chat face-to-face, it's the body language that gives so much variation on the same word.

On the internet, it's more of how you present your grammar, and it makes quite a lot of difference.

For example, if i type leik this people know that i'm not srrus

But if I capitalize, punctuate, and have really proper grammar, and not use idioms, you can tell that I am being serious.

And if I type really fast and don't change my msitaks that are clearely the resuel tiof me typing so fast and i use a lot of exclamation points then you can tell I'm exited!

It's that kind of difference.

Why can't you just post what you want to post without worrying about things like that? And why is it different in the case of if it's a higher staff member?

"Why do I have to learn body language?!" said the autistic kid. That type of thing.

Arago
March 30th, 2013, 08:36 PM
Oh wow I didn't know people read into posts that much.

Personally I think that's a huge waste of time and you shouldn't take things too seriously, especially not on here since this is supposed to be a place where you can relax and take your mind off of things like that in your real life, where those problems are problems that mostly everyone faces. I think it's just overcomplicating things and if someone doesn't like you online, oh well that's their problem. Worrying about how people take your posts just seems like something that takes up too much time and you could be using that to do something a little more productive. :/

droomph
March 30th, 2013, 08:48 PM
Oh wow I didn't know people read into posts that much.

Personally I think that's a huge waste of time and you shouldn't take things too seriously, especially not on here since this is supposed to be a place where you can relax and take your mind off of things like that in your real life, where those problems are problems that mostly everyone faces. I think it's just overcomplicating things and if someone doesn't like you online, oh well that's their problem. Worrying about how people take your posts just seems like something that takes up too much time and you could be using that to do something a little more productive. :/

Wellllllll it's more of a given to some of us.

Like, it's pretty obvious just by a glance to me what the "tone" should be, but maybe for others it's hard.

It's kinda like the body language thing I described earlier. I have trouble understanding body language myself in real life, but I find that it's not much of a big deal. If you can't comprehend it, you'll get by. It's just that you can't truly describe what you feel, but it's not that important.

So my thing is, try to do it, but if you guys find yourselves doing more time analyzing than replying, maybe just don't mind that sort of thing.

Eh. Not really at all. Please don't use analogies like that. Autism is far to complex an issue to be used off-hand.Just to clear things up it's because their number one symptom is not being able to convey and understand body language. I thought it would be kinda relevant.

Anna
March 30th, 2013, 08:48 PM
"Why do I have to learn body language?!" said the autistic kid. That type of thing.
Eh. Not really at all. Please don't use analogies like that. Autism is far to complex an issue to be used off-hand.

Oh wow I didn't know people read into posts that much.

Personally I think that's a huge waste of time and you shouldn't take things too seriously, especially not on here since this is supposed to be a place where you can relax and take your mind off of things like that in your real life, where those problems are problems that mostly everyone faces. I think it's just overcomplicating things and if someone doesn't like you online, oh well that's their problem. Worrying about how people take your posts just seems like something that takes up too much time and you could be using that to do something a little more productive. :/
Yeah, but it's also just the issue of general communication. It's not so much about people liking you as you being able to accurately convey your meaning with what is actually an extremely limited tool. And in the case of being nervous around hstaff- people tend to fear that if taken the wrong way, they will get in serious trouble. Many of us know this is not at all the case, because we are able to appeal and clarify and take it up with multiple staff members. It is not a one-thing-end-all. But still people feel that that actually is the case. If that makes any sort of sense.

Um one thing as well that actually pertains to staff feedback: Nick you've been coming across a bit "tough **** screw you guys" lately and that's probably not the best way to phrase that at all but what I'm perceiving is kind rubbing me the wrong way. Idrc if you change from that but just so you're aware, that's the kind of vibe I've been getting.

Shiny Celebi
March 30th, 2013, 08:53 PM
Well my take on it is although you're online, you're talking to real people. They read what you say and may judge your posts and you by extension. People develop friendships and relationships on forums like this.

Forum moderators/staff are leaders, and to a new person in an online community, may appear intimidating. Now you may think that is silly, but it happens. When you go online you still have emotions and interact with people the same as you do in real life, only through a computer. If moderators do things to appear intimidating, then people will be intimidated. This is just my take on this and this has happened to me before.

Arago
March 30th, 2013, 08:56 PM
Wellllllll it's more of a given to some of us.

Like, it's pretty obvious just by a glance to me what the "tone" should be, but maybe for others it's hard.

It's kinda like the body language thing I described earlier. I have trouble understanding body language myself in real life, but I find that it's not much of a big deal. If you can't comprehend it, you'll get by. It's just that you can't truly describe what you feel, but it's not that important.

So my thing is, try to do it, but if you guys find yourselves doing more time analyzing than replying, maybe just don't mind that sort of thing.
I'm just not really sure how someone formats their post really puts that across. I type the way I do because it's easy to read and that's just how I've grown to type over the years. Sometimes when I'm feeling lazy, I don't really use the shift key, but other than that I don't really stray from the way I type with how I capitalize and punctuate my posts. And I don't use smilies much because I just think the ones here (and on all vBulletin forums that don't have custom smilies) are reeeaaally fugly. I think it's really ridiculous to interpret people who type like this as intimidating.

Eh. Not really at all. Please don't use analogies like that. Autism is far to complex an issue to be used off-hand.


Yeah, but it's also just the issue of general communication. It's not so much about people liking you as you being able to accurately convey your meaning with what is actually an extremely limited tool. And in the case of being nervous around hstaff- people tend to fear that if taken the wrong way, they will get in serious trouble. Many of us know this is not at all the case, because we are able to appeal and clarify and take it up with multiple staff members. It is not a one-thing-end-all. But still people feel that that actually is the case. If that makes any sort of sense.

Um one thing as well that actually pertains to staff feedback: Nick you've been coming across a bit "tough **** screw you guys" lately and that's probably not the best way to phrase that at all but what I'm perceiving is kind rubbing me the wrong way. Idrc if you change from that but just so you're aware, that's the kind of vibe I've been getting.
I think if a higher staff member takes your post the wrong way and you get into serious trouble with that, then that higher staff member has some problems that they need to take care of and that problem should be reported to someone of higher authority so that they can deal with it accordingly. But I've never seen that happen once. I've seen (and done) higher staff reply with snarky replies, but that can be said for literally everyone here. We all get snarky from time to time. I just feel like treating higher staff members in particular like you're walking on eggshells around them when you interact with them is just not the way to go about it. Be yourself, do you and just live your life without worrying about how someone on the internet is going to react to that one sarcastic sentence you made in a post four hours ago.

Team Fail
March 30th, 2013, 09:04 PM
I have no idea whether or not that actually answers your question, but that's from my perspective.

I agree with absolutely everything here. Since we use words to convey messages, and not sound clips or something, it leaves an element of anonymity and question in which it's difficult to answer. Think of it this way, and I'd like to see a few replies to this as a proof-of concept. Imagine I randomly VM you (whoever is reading) and I sent you this:

Hey! You seem like a cool person, so I thought I'd throw a message your way. What kind of stuff are you into?

What is the first thing that comes to mind after reading it?

I know some people would find it weird that they were VMd that randomly, but others do it to get a few friends here, and (if I'm just unfortunate) I might also send it to the one person that finds me simply obnoxious. Since I have all these factors coming into play, I have a vast array of possible responses, or none at all. All I'd have to go on is the limited knowledge I have of that user. And that's where the intimidation factor comes into play.

And this post got me thinking. Perhaps I should try looking beyond a username, and get to know some more of the staff here, let alone more users. I was kinda intimidated myself when I first registered ages ago, but it seems like after almost 4 years here, it's kinda dumb to say I really feel intimidated, because of two things:

1. Personal experience. I've been a mod, and I know what it's like when people see you as intimidating.
2. I feel like there's more to any member than just a username, and having that one-on-one chat helps to reinforce that fact.

I think, as proceed to both my 18th birthday and begin my 5th year as a PC member, I want to stop being such a coward and just be myself. And honestly, I think the H-Staff are doing that. Being themselves. They're all people. They all bleed red (Or so I hope). And I'm pretty sure they're not nearly as mean as someone might make them out to be.

Holy crap that seems waaay off-topic.

Arago
March 30th, 2013, 09:06 PM
Well, since you asked:

"Hey! You seem like a cool person, so I thought I'd throw a message your way. What kind of stuff are you into?"

The first thing that comes to mind is:
a. Oh cool, that person thinks that I'm a cool person and wanted to tell me that.
b. What kind of stuff am I into?

Anna
March 30th, 2013, 09:06 PM
I think if a higher staff member takes your post the wrong way and you get into serious trouble with that, then that higher staff member has some problems that they need to take care of and that problem should be reported to someone of higher authority so that they can deal with it accordingly. But I've never seen that happen once. I've seen (and done) higher staff reply with snarky replies, but that can be said for literally everyone here. We all get snarky from time to time. I just feel like treating higher staff members in particular like you're walking on eggshells around them when you interact with them is just not the way to go about it. Be yourself, do you and just live your life without worrying about how someone on the internet is going to react to that one sarcastic sentence you made in a post four hours ago.

No I agree with that. And that's completely true. But the fact stands that people will be intimidated, people will misinterpret, and people will worry. And a lot of users here are just kids, too- even less confident in themselves, their opinions, and their ability to convey meaning even offline, where they have all their tools available to them. This is why I believe that staff need to present themselves as approachable, in tune with the general memberbase, and- most importantly- as other fairly normal people spending their free time on a Pokémon forum. Your posting style shouldn't matter too much if you are accurately conveying your feelings and your thoughts to others- and that goes for both staff and members.

Cherrim
March 30th, 2013, 09:32 PM
I think the issue here is less that people are "intimidating" and more that they're "unapproachable". They're two different things, often used interchangeably (even in my post, I think) or blamed for one another, but I don't think anyone on the higher staff (or mods or anyone on PC) is necessarily intimidating... I think the intimidating part is a byproduct of members not knowing HOW to approach the person because they never/so rarely see them interact with other members in a way that isn't srs business or very, very occasional.
Why are people intimidated by people on the internet?
Because at PC, a lot of people put forward just as much of their personality as they do in real life. It's not just "the internet" to a lot of people here and I don't know why it being the internet makes any difference whatsoever.

If someone is in a position of power/superiority over someone else, when they're aloof and don't interact much with those underneath them in the hierarchy, of course they're going to be intimidating! Who's going to seem more approachable, the clerk at a hobby store who's never afraid to strike up a conversation with like-minded people visiting the shop or the one who sits off to the side and only engages in conversation when it's absolutely necessary, like if someone has a problem or they're doing something horribly wrong? This isn't even a good analogy because PC Staff almost always takes the position that they're just members with extra responsibilities, which is true in a lot of ways--mainly they aren't paid, so modding is just volunteer work on top of what they already did for [their] forum. The requirement for almost any moderator is always to foster discussion and keep people interested. That requirement doesn't (or shouldn't) go away as they climb the ranks and it certainly means effort should be made to keep from seeming intimidating.

Generally, a lot of the staff is friendly and outgoing and interacts with members in the exact same ways they always did before being modded, since not only is it part of the job description but everyone on staff is there because they really, really like PC and like to interact with friends and discuss things with the memberbase here. Yeah, there are some extra serious moments dropped in here and there when "official" stuff has to happen, and staff members are expected to be respectful at all times, but it's not like anyone gets (or should get) a personality makeover the moment they become staff. I can't really think of many times (if any?) that people were modded despite being really aloof or never having interacted much with other members at all... so there's no reason it should be a quality that disappears as you climb the ladder, be it just to mod or all the way to admin. Since every single person on staff, save Rukario, was just a member at some point, it's pretty much fact that they can interact with others on a level that isn't intimidating/rude/whatever you want to call it. Obviously, a lot of people find just the bold or italicized names of staff intimidating because it means that person has the power to ~decide their fate~ on PC, and there's nothing that can be done about that, but I'd say from personal experience that username formatting has almost nothing to do with it. It's entirely about how an individual staff member interacts with members and puts themselves out there that deems whether they are intimidating or approachable.

That said, honestly, if I didn't know you really well, I'd find posts like this really intimidating. Your occasional nonchalant attitude is really aloof and cool but it wouldn't inspire me to contact you about... anything, really. Certainly not anything that wasn't strictly business. Even the wording of your question in this post gives off way more of a "wow lol people take the internet seriously? hahahaha lame" vibe than "why do people find [me] intimidating and how can [I] fix it?" I'd hope you're actually in the latter and something from your posts (sarcasm, etc.) just isn't coming across, but most of your (initial) posts in here are sounding like the former. You're brushing off concerns by telling people not to take the internet seriously when for a lot of people, the internet has nothing to do with it. You're presenting yourself in an intimidating way--if I were talking to you IRL and you were as flat and dismissive as you are now, I'd probably stop talking to you pretty quick because you'd be, if not intimidating, unapproachable. I don't think you're doing it on purpose because I know you better than that, but please don't dismiss this as something that doesn't concern you just because you don't believe intimidation is something that should exist on the internet; I can tell from your repeated replies in this thread that you DO care that there is an issue and it concerns you, but some of your posts don't show it at all. You just have to be a little more careful in your interactions because when you give off vibes that you don't care, that [member concerns] aren't important, you make yourself that much more unapproachable and yes, that can be intimidating.

tl;dr
- Staff are much less intimidating when they are out interacting with members just as often as members are interacting with members... because it puts everyone on the same playing field.
- unfriendly/dismissive staff posts don't help, even if the activity is there, whether the attitude was intentional or not :(

Arago
March 30th, 2013, 11:25 PM
No I agree with that. And that's completely true. But the fact stands that people will be intimidated, people will misinterpret, and people will worry. And a lot of users here are just kids, too- even less confident in themselves, their opinions, and their ability to convey meaning even offline, where they have all their tools available to them. This is why I believe that staff need to present themselves as approachable, in tune with the general memberbase, and- most importantly- as other fairly normal people spending their free time on a Pokémon forum. Your posting style shouldn't matter too much if you are accurately conveying your feelings and your thoughts to others- and that goes for both staff and members.
Except by conveying my thoughts to others in this thread alone, I have come across to others as unfriendly so I think there's more to it than just being able to convey your feelings. The point I rose in my first post directed towards the intimidation factor was out of misunderstanding. I didn't - and, in fact, I still don't - understand why people found members (higher staff in particular) to be intimidating. I asked why, and I got an answer. I replied to the answer I got with my genuine feelings on the matter. I appreciate the feedback, especially the feedback from people about me in particular since I would like to improve, but I really don't understand how I'm coming across as dismissive (especially since I'm trying my best to acknowledge all of the points) and, more importantly, unfriendly. Especially after reading over my posts and not seeing anything wrong with them or anything that would translate to me, if I was reading it if it was coming from someone else, as such. What about what I'm posting translates as what I'm posting to be dismissive?

curiousnathan
March 31st, 2013, 01:17 AM
Well, since you asked:

"Hey! You seem like a cool person, so I thought I'd throw a message your way. What kind of stuff are you into?"

The first thing that comes to mind is:
a. Oh cool, that person thinks that I'm a cool person and wanted to tell me that.
b. What kind of stuff am I into?

If I may, I'd have to disagree. I've asked about your interests before and you've replied quite sarcastically which really rubbed me the wrong way. I'm not sure if I can offer my constructive feedback -- but I will anyway, and if I can't I'll kindly edit my post. Sometimes I feel you can be very cold, and quite sarcastic. I've heard so many great things about you, but whenever I've tried and made the effort to talk to you etc, I get a real unfriendly feeling in return. I just wish you'd be more open and 'friendly' for a lack of a better word. That's just my honest, no crap feelings, and I think I owe it to anyone who does ask for feedback not to lie. Because well, that wouldn't be very helpful at all.

All that aside however, I can understand how people may see staff as intimidating; and personally, I think it's due to acitivty. Perhaps if the h-staff were seen more around the forums, maybe you guys would be able to develop the mentality that...they're people just like you! What puzzles me more though, is why not get to know us/them first? Send us a VM and PM! We don't bite! Naturally, we'll have days where we'll feel a bit off (don't we all), but please don't let it deter you from sending us a friendly message. Isn't it better to at least get to know us -- and realise we're no different to any other member, than to not try at all?

$0.02

Edit:
No I agree with that. And that's completely true. But the fact stands that people will be intimidated, people will misinterpret, and people will worry. And a lot of users here are just kids, too- even less confident in themselves, their opinions, and their ability to convey meaning even offline, where they have all their tools available to them. This is why I believe that staff need to present themselves as approachable, in tune with the general memberbase, and- most importantly- as other fairly normal people spending their free time on a Pokémon forum. Your posting style shouldn't matter too much if you are accurately conveying your feelings and your thoughts to others- and that goes for both staff and members.

I agree. But adding onto that, we as staff can only be so approachable. Members play somewhat of a role too in changing the relationship between the two parties. If they're initially worried, intimidated etc, and want to make a positive change, then in order for that to happen they'll need to take action and push through those feelings. It's like learning, a teacher can only do so much as to teach their subject; it's then the student's responsibility to take action and develop their learning even further. In other words, if we want to make a positive change, both sides need to take some action and perhaps some initiative. It's a two way street.

abnegation
March 31st, 2013, 03:03 AM
Why are people intimidated by people on the internet?
I'm intimidated by cotton wool. Fear is irrational by nature.

waterworks
March 31st, 2013, 05:14 AM
I can't really say too much since I'm barely here any more, but I do agree with what has been said before; Nick, I find you to be quite sarcastic, a little rude at times, and sometimes, it makes you seem like a...well, yeah, I can't say that word but you get what I mean.

I also think Nica is way too damn happy! I want to see you RAGE! Turn green and start smashing stuff! Don't just shut the door, SLAM that door!

Other than that not really much I can say, since the only staff member I really had any dislike for is no longer staff. You're all good, wonderful people. <3

Cherrim
March 31st, 2013, 06:09 AM
What about what I'm posting translates as what I'm posting to be dismissive?
It was more your first few posts that felt dismissive--after that, you seemed to realize there really was a problem and you're trying to figure out what it is so you can fix it. No longer dismissive.

Your very first post (the one I quoted) was dismissive because it sounded like you were in disbelief that anyone could feel intimidated on the internet as a medium. It sounded kind of snarky and since I see that kind of post (in an official capacity) from you fairly often (or often enough to remember specific examples), it's easy for me (and others) to assume that was the tone behind it.

Arago
March 31st, 2013, 06:54 AM
Oh. That's not what I intended it to sound like. It was just an honest question I wanted to find the answer to because I couldn't really understand why people found others here (and, in turn, on the internet as a whole) to be intimidating. If it was just a "wow lol people take the internet seriously? hahahaha lame" kind of thing, I wouldn't have replied given how seriously I view this.

Kura
March 31st, 2013, 08:46 AM
Uur my post deleted when sending. Anyways, I just wanted to add that to me, Nick's been really professional and I feel he comes across as more mature than a lot of staff which is refreshing. Perhaps it is because I know him, so when I see him giving quick replies to others, I just see it as being direct and to the point rather than being rude or mean. I don't mean to poke in just to say this, but I guess it also depends on perspective, and I think Nick's replies are quite well done and I prefer them.

In terms of text, it may be a bit sub-conscious like how a story may be written in a certain way, so you get a certain feeling from the style it's written in.

But Nick, if others are feeling a bit that way about it, it might be a good thing that it was pointed out since now it can be something to be improved and help you grow as an SMod. :3 I like the job you're doing though so don't be deterred by comments.

Cordelia
March 31st, 2013, 09:07 AM
Nick, one of the ways that you come off as dismissive is just how you are online. I've learned not to take your words that way but I used to not like you and felt you were not exactly the type of person I want to listen to, but as time has gone on and I've learned, that's how you are. You aren't being malicious or anything and I've just come to accept that is the way you are.

Magic
March 31st, 2013, 09:22 AM
New target!

Mods here are generally really good and helpful, over the years I've been here I've only thought of one as unreasonable, and it looks like he's gone now.

I agree with other members about visibility being key, in most areas that isn't really a problem - but I would say the ROM Hacking section lacks much moderator influence. The only reason you know a mod is there is because threads are being approved... otherwise there isn't much posting going on. From what I've seen of the other sections there are a lot more posts/threads made by the mods.

Saying that I'm sure it takes them ages to sift through thread after thread telling people to include all the necessary bits and bobs.

Someone suggested above a 'meet the mods' kind of post where there is something about each of you. I reckon that could be a good idea, in the same way it helped newbies pick a mentor (wait did that go?). Maybe a brief intro in their section's rules, or in the main site's rules for SMods/Admins.

Echidna
March 31st, 2013, 09:51 AM
On the late topic of rudeness, I personally don't see anything wrong about how the staff handle situations. Sure at first I was very intimidated by the staff, and it took a while to get to know some of them and make friends with them. After said point it got much smoother knowing that staff were/are just like us. The only problem I used to have with some former staff which no longer exists, and some may blame this on me but that would be your point of view, is that there used to a certain amount of face-level hatred towards n00bness if you will. I don't wanna go into detail on this because as I said, this hasn't been a problem in a long time and also because I don't wanna say something that I will regret towards former staff. It's just that, everyone was a n00b at one point and there was a time when some people outright expressed their hatred and/or mockery of someone doing something wrong online because they were new to this corner of the cyberverse, and had no idea what was going on. So enough on that topic.

I personally don't take offense at all when a staff member acts firmly to enforce the rules because hey, it's their job. And as long as they do show, albeit somewhere else, that they are in fact fun/humorous, I'm completely fine myself. The problem in my opinion is that this does no register with the newer members.
Here's a quick anecdote:
When I first joined PC, I was completely and utterly oblivious towards the rules. I did something back then that was so stupid, I can't believe I wasn't banned instantly D:
I'm not gonna get into detail about what exactly it was that I did, but I can remember that instead of getting an infraction or even a warning, I simply got a PM from a moderator I can only remember as Nica. YES HER <3 <3
Anyways, she explained to me what I had done wrong, what I should have done and what I could do in the future to fix it. I was so grateful that the situation was handled with that level of care or if you will, sugar-coating.

So there stands my point. As I mentioned, personally I have no problem whatsoever, at the moment, with the lack of sugar-coating when it comes to some rule enforcing on the moderators' behalf. But I can't say the same for newer members. And from my own experience, if the moderator who handled that situation that happened when I first joined hadn't done so with sugar-coating, I can fairly say that I would not be here today.

Granted not everyone shares my view of things, but if you ask me it would be better to stay on the safe side of things because you never know when a little sugar-coating could potentially save the staff a lot of trouble, as well as give a new member a chance at fixing their ways and growing on the forums.

2cents aaaaand out~ <3

Ray Maverick
March 31st, 2013, 10:04 AM
I don't think I can tell you much of today's staff. I make sure to avoid contact with the mods, that's why, and why is that? Well the mods I have met in the past are the reason, who are now either gone from the community or don't maintain their title. Despite their dashing [internet] looks and attitude, it occurred to me in the past that that was just a mask they wear to hide their insecurity and selfishness, not to mention their overall bad and complex person. I'm mainly talking about the RH section, since that is where I was active the most. Even if they did help the community as a whole, they were mistreating certain people. The 'noobs', if the derogatory term is allowed. And RH was(/is) full of them, so these people were poor choices for that job and were quite undeserving their titles. My point is; please be more careful when choosing the mods. A mod doesn't need to be dedicated only, they need to be nice as well. And 'nice' is not defined by popular and sexy or whatever.

My other complaint is that you mods maintain an attitude which makes me (and probably others) feel mocked, even when I am being completely serious. And this has happened since forever. Like, you're being sarcastic, or random, which I feel is entirely out of place, seeing as your job is not to confound people or pull off stunts. Your job isn't to rule them, either.

/rant.

Caelus
March 31st, 2013, 12:03 PM
Why are people intimidated by people on the internet?

While I agree that being afraid of someone you'll most likely never meet in person is a little unusual, I can recall being intimidated by the whole staff when I joined. I was 14 at the time so I think it's only natural that users that are older than me - or more experienced - would intimidate me, just like how in high school when you start out as a freshman and you have the upperclassmen who are bigger than you, that can also intimidate a lot of people. It also didn't help that some staff members never posted, never responded to VMs, and when they did post it was usually a thread they had to lock with something witty/sarcastic. That's how I saw it when I first joined.


Now that I'm older I don't find the staff here intimidating at all. Even the ones I used to be intimidated by don't faze me at all anymore. I don't know if that's because I don't take this site as serious as I used to, or if it's because I realize that you guys are just like me: human beings that go through the rigors of the real world. And a lot of you guys are older than most users here so you're going through college/real world stuff, so now I understand why some of you guys don't socialize with everyone, especially when you also got to deal with spam. That's what I see at least.

Compared to other sites I've been to you guys are a lot more approachable. No one's perfect but you guys have been cool with me during my stay here and some of you guys have even talked to me (surprising given how I always see myself as being a little too serious in my posts).

Plus I've never received an infraction here before so I don't understand how users here complain about you guys being strict. Seriously, if I have yet to get a single infraction after 2600+ posts here I don't know how anyone else could get one if they read the rules here, which are pretty lenient. The closest I've gotten to one was a warning I received from Beachboy back when he was a moderator, but that was because I posted twice in a newbie thread and that wasn't even a yellow card warning.


Other than disallowing swearing (which I can understand since it's a forum aimed at kids) I don't have a problem with the rules here; I've seen dumber rules in several other sites and the rules here are pretty easy to follow.

I can't speak for all the users here since I've been pretty inactive this past month and don't plan on being active anytime soon, but from my observations here since I returned (Late January of this year) you guys are doing your job and aren't mistreating other users, even the ones that have joined recently, so like I've said several times already I think you guys are doing a great job given that you're all human and therefore not perfect.


Just my 2 cents regarding this thread

Antemortem
March 31st, 2013, 12:40 PM
My other complaint is that you mods maintain an attitude which makes me (and probably others) feel mocked, even when I am being completely serious. And this has happened since forever. Like, you're being sarcastic, or random, which I feel is entirely out of place, seeing as your job is not to confound people or pull off stunts. Your job isn't to rule them, either.


This concerns me. Do you think you could come up with specific instances in which a member of staff has blatantly disregarded or feigned interest in a serious situation that involved you? I do believe there is a fine line between needing to secure a certain serious demeanor and when it's fine to just be human, as all members and staff alike are, but if the times you speak of required the staff member(s) in question to, at the very, very least, give you an earnest moment of their time, they should have and it's unacceptable for them to have done any less.

Jak
March 31st, 2013, 01:24 PM
I don't think I can tell you much of today's staff. I make sure to avoid contact with the mods, that's why, and why is that? Well the mods I have met in the past are the reason, who are now either gone from the community or don't maintain their title. Despite their dashing [internet] looks and attitude, it occurred to me in the past that that was just a mask they wear to hide their insecurity and selfishness, not to mention their overall bad and complex person.

I really hate that the staff back then has shaped your opinion on them now. If I ever did anything to add to that (I was modded later on in the year you joined), then I apologize. I know you said you were talking mainly about RH mods, but I still can't help but say something. I wouldn't let that turn you away from talking to current mods, though. I think the current mods are much friendlier and more approachable than the mods that were around when I joined and even when I was modded. I know that just sounds like opinion, but I think most people that were here then and still here now can agree that the current mods do come off a lot nicer than they did back then. I can think of a few examples, but it doesn't really matter since none of them are around anymore.

tl;dr I hope that you can see that the current staff is different than it was back then. We're a different group of people, so don't let the sour ones from back then let you have a bad opinion on (almost) completely new people. :)

Kura
April 1st, 2013, 09:58 AM
This concerns me. Do you think you could come up with specific instances in which a member of staff has blatantly disregarded or feigned interest in a serious situation that involved you? I do believe there is a fine line between needing to secure a certain serious demeanor and when it's fine to just be human, as all members and staff alike are, but if the times you speak of required the staff member(s) in question to, at the very, very least, give you an earnest moment of their time, they should have and it's unacceptable for them to have done any less.

A perfect example waz when Luke mocked another member in his blog ages ago. The comment i wrote was " not cool, man " then he edited his whole blog so i guess he wouldnt get in trouble by hiding subliminal messages in it like the title being "kura sucks" if you only looked at the first letter of each word. I didnt report it because i thought it was childish and wasn't worth my time, but did screenshot it in case he ever hard deleted it and said it never happened. All i ever did wad stick up for the little guy. Imagine if it were a more sensitive member? I know its not applicable because he is not staff anymore, but doing that while being staff is unacceptable.We are all people and not everyone's gonna like each other but don't be catty and mock others publicly like that when you're supposed to be the guys setting things right.


I have other examples and other proof of mocked behaviour if you need it but im writing from my phone atm.

Btw the blog should still be there without the need of my screenshotlong with a couple other snarky blogs that were dine if anyone wants proof of that.
Hope this helps define what we might mean by being mocked. It should concern you as it really isnt that long ago.


Also just a question. Iknow audy does server stuff and jake does themes and back end stuff too ob pc. But what does syphiel do? I know she is a sweet girl but what is her role as h staff?

Edit: Also to make this post a bit more lighthearted:
http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/6946807_460s.jpg

roosterman
April 1st, 2013, 10:15 AM
So one thing I notice a lot is that some staff members can be really...touchy, I guess. Lately i'm just not posting a lot on these forums because i'm afraid i'll somehow offend someone and get in another fight. This may just be me but seriously I think everyone just needs to chill out.

Went
April 1st, 2013, 10:22 AM
Also just a question. Iknow audy does server stuff and jake does themes and back end stuff too ob pc. But what does syphiel do? I know she is a sweet girl but what is her role as h staff?

Jess and I mostly do the small day-to-day stuff: uploading emblems, fixing errors in themes, editing usertitles and, in general, anything that gets posted in the Admin Requests thread in the Mod lounge.

Ausaudriel
April 1st, 2013, 10:23 AM
Also just a question. Iknow audy does server stuff and jake does themes and back end stuff too ob pc. But what does syphiel do? I know she is a sweet girl but what is her role as h staff?

The thing about h-staff and actually admins especially is that we don't all have specific "benefits" to PC or "roles" that we serve. It's great that I have the ability to code new features and that Jake has the ability to create beautiful styles, but neither of those things are a requirement nor are they the sole reasons we were promoted through the ranks and eventually to admin.

The primary role of any h-staffer, honestly, is just to be there. It's our job to form the governing body and lead/shape the community. Jess or any of the other less public h-staff may not visibly contribute in a way that members can see, but every single one of us are responsible for what PC is today by way of contributing ideas, opinions, plans, and other things in the HQ and above. Everything from the rules that members follow to the descriptions in the boards members post in to the guidelines on how to properly moderate the board--all of these are things we've discussed in detail and every single one of us have added to them in one way or the other. My coding or Jake's styles wouldn't mean anything if it wasn't for Jess' calm, unbiassed, and intelligent contributions in choosing moderators or defining rules or contributing a thought-provoking post that takes an issue like "what do we do about board x being so dead?" and turns it into an opportunity to transform and revamp the section.

so yeah. 8)

adventure
April 1st, 2013, 02:06 PM
So one thing I notice a lot is that some staff members can be really...touchy, I guess. Lately i'm just not posting a lot on these forums because i'm afraid i'll somehow offend someone and get in another fight. This may just be me but seriously I think everyone just needs to chill out.

Sounds like you are the touchy one ;) I wouldn't worry too much. As have already been stated kind of in this thread a few times, people don't necessarily type like they speak/act/intend. The written word tends to twist things around sometimes. But I might understand what you mean, if I get into some kind of misunderstanding or disagreement with someone online, I tend to worry more about it than I do about similar situations in real life. Probably just because I don't know the online person as well as I know real life people.

It's not just about staff; if everyone always did their best to think twice before writing something or replying to something possibly touchy-like that others have written, things would be chill. I know I should think twice a bit more often, for instance :> It's just, for staff, the imprint a badly worded or hasted post can make is a bit bigger than for a regular member maybe.


About staff being cocky, I've seen that a lot on other, newer forums. But PC has been around for quite a while now and the (old lol) admins know what they want in a moderator and most of the time have a wide group of people to choose from. They don't need to pick a power hungry person when they can pick friendly, eager people with a healthy portion of common sense built into them. So I just generally trust the H-staff to do just that. And that's that :> There will always be people who dislike others, for whatever minor reasons or events (which I want to refer to as misunderstandings because that's the case 90% of the time).


tl;dr In my world, everyone's a pony and they all eat rainbows and poop butterflies.

tabor62
April 1st, 2013, 02:34 PM
Hmm, well I don't come in contact with most staff enough cuz I hole up in Trade Corner all the time. Though, what I can say is that the TC mods and TwilightBlade are awesome staff members and I haven't had any sort of problem with them before (hopefully never). Keep it up guys!

Kura
April 2nd, 2013, 04:34 AM
Just had another random idea I think would be nice.

Anyone ever thought of doing a Staff/Member appreciation thread in Other Trivia? I can understand it might end up getting a bit spammy so that's why I thought to put it there.. and I also understand that some people use their blogs for this, but I think it's nice for people who don't have a blog, to write something nice about the members/mods especially for thanking them for doing something they thought was outstanding or helpful?

Just a thought.

Zorua
April 2nd, 2013, 04:51 AM
Just had another random idea I think would be nice.

Anyone ever thought of doing a Staff/Member appreciation thread in Other Trivia? I can understand it might end up getting a bit spammy so that's why I thought to put it there.. and I also understand that some people use their blogs for this, but I think it's nice for people who don't have a blog, to write something nice about the members/mods especially for thanking them for doing something they thought was outstanding or helpful?

Just a thought.

Well, I have a few conflicting feelings about this, and bear with me here, maybe this won't be such a significant worry about all, but there's something that still bothers me:

When you're considering a thread that's going into specific detail about either members or staff, I always fear that either staff or specific members would leave someone out, and then people would end up getting their feelings, hurt, y'know? I mean, in case that doesn't make sense, look at the rule in OVP about not making any threads about specific members. It's because, if say, if a certain moderator is doing an excellent job, but they're not recognized in said staff appreciation thread, they might feel like their work isn't appreciated. Now realize, I might be putting things in the most extreme sense, but that's actually a fairly real possibility, and I'd personally want to avoid something like that at all costs.

Cordelia
April 2nd, 2013, 04:58 AM
I disagree.

Staff don't need to be put on a pedestal by having an appreciation thread. I just like interacting with members on a normal level since I am just a member with duties to the forum.

Kura
April 2nd, 2013, 05:28 AM
I disagree.

Staff don't need to be put on a pedestal by having an appreciation thread. I just like interacting with members on a normal level since I am just a member with duties to the forum.

When I wrote staff/ member, I meant staff and member, not staff-member, sorry for the confusion!

Vital
April 2nd, 2013, 05:34 AM
So a feel good thread basically, Kura, that's open to everyone that can be about anyone? That's not a terrible idea, honestly. I don't see anything wrong with publicly showing appreciation or admiration towards any particular member.

Arago
April 2nd, 2013, 05:57 AM
I think that's a great idea and worth giving it a shot.

Kura
April 2nd, 2013, 09:24 AM
So a feel good thread basically, Kura, that's open to everyone that can be about anyone? That's not a terrible idea, honestly. I don't see anything wrong with publicly showing appreciation or admiration towards any particular member.

Yeah, kinda like Dear anonymous, but doesn't have to be anonymous but only good things can be said.. like "___ is really friendly with trades! Thanks for the awesome Kingler" or "I'd like to send my appreciation to ___ for welcoming me to the forums." Or whatever, really. I guess I can only see it getting messy if people start being like "write things about me!" or is a bit spammy like "I appreciate __ because of HIS AWESOMENESS" but I don't really see that happening all that much, and if it does, the postcount there doesn't matter anyway, so it's fine.
I don't even feel like every post has to be directed at a person.. it can be like "Thanks Pokecommunity, for letting me find lots of friends."
Like I said, I see it in blogs sometimes and it's super cute, so it'd be nice to extend it to people who don't have blogs.

People feeling left out may be something valid to bring up, but maybe that'll inspire them to be more helpful around the community? I guess if we see it going a bad route, we can always lock it and shut it down, no?

Vital
April 2nd, 2013, 09:30 AM
I like it a lot. It actually reminds me of a page on Facebook, a "compliments page" where people inbox compliments and the moderator posts it, and the whole thing turned out really nice and cute. What you're suggesting is basically the same thing, and I feel like it's definitely worth a shot. Worst come to worst, we can always close it.

The only think I'm not sure about is if it should be in OT. The "posts not being added" portion makes a lot of sense, but to me it just seems like a really weird place to put such a thread.

Melody
April 2nd, 2013, 09:45 AM
Actually OT wouldn't be a weird place to put it if you ask me, because it's an experimental thread, and it would require less moderation in OT than it would elsewhere.

I don't see them going to the trouble to sequester such a thread elsewhere in it's own sub-forum unless it becomes wildly popular and too much for OT. This isn't like Dear Anonymous, where it does NEED to be WATCHED CLOSELY because people might say something disrespectful, since it's almost the polar opposite to Dear Anonymous.

I'd love to have a thread to this effect. It doesn't matter if the thread allows me to drop a name or not anyway, and we could make it anonymous so no one feels left out if that's a serious concern we have. But it'd be nice to have a place to leave positive messages, and a good counterpoint to Dear Anonymous.

Heck, we could put a serious version of it right alongside Dear Anonymous in OVP if Sammi-san doesn't mind, and moderate it for spam. Then have a spammy version in OT for silly ones where we just want to say nice things for no real reason! :P

shenanigans
April 2nd, 2013, 10:33 AM
I'm reminded of something that used to be on a forum I'm a member of a long time back. Basically there was a section which was full of threads just asking the thread's creator questions about them, chatting about the answers, etc. If anyone's a Reddit user, sort of similar to IAMA threads. They weren't strictly member fanclubs per se since the aim of those threads was to get to know users rather than to kiss the ground they walk on, but I think you get the idea. They were essentially used to get to know interesting and influential members of the community as well as... just about anyone else, really.

Does this make sense, and how would anyone feel about such a thing on PokéCommunity? Or is it kinda over-the-top? Just a (probably horrible lol) suggestion which I may as well as throw out there.

Kura
April 2nd, 2013, 12:14 PM
I'm reminded of something that used to be on a forum I'm a member of a long time back. Basically there was a section which was full of threads just asking the thread's creator questions about them, chatting about the answers, etc. If anyone's a Reddit user, sort of similar to IAMA threads. They weren't strictly member fanclubs per se since the aim of those threads was to get to know users rather than to kiss the ground they walk on, but I think you get the idea. They were essentially used to get to know interesting and influential members of the community as well as... just about anyone else, really.

Does this make sense, and how would anyone feel about such a thing on PokéCommunity? Or is it kinda over-the-top? Just a (probably horrible lol) suggestion which I may as well as throw out there.

I like the idea of this a lot, though I kinda worry about the fact that that might specifically become like a popularity contest. Who defines who is "interesting" and "influential"? Aren't we all in our own way? I like IAMA threads on reddit because they can be quite interesting, but maybe we can open something like this up to the IRC.

Maybe we can make the IRC have like a sort of "QUESTIONS EVENT" every once in a while, where up to 3 (or however many) members sign up every Friday to answer questions about themselves on the IRC. That way the IRC gets activity, (I say three in case a couple get suddenly busy, or if the IRC is dead they can always ask questions to each other until someone new pops up,) and it can essentially be like the same thing and whatnot.
It'll take away the whole "My IAMA thread has more posts than yours" and take away who is allowed to have an IAMA thread or who might get ignored if they posted in one IAMA thread in favour for someone with more postcount or popularity or whatever.

Just trying a compromise about this too. What do you think?

shenanigans
April 2nd, 2013, 12:17 PM
...ignore the part where I said anything about interesting and influential, haha. The threads'd be for anyone to make so anyone who wants to make one, can make one. Idk why I said that.

As for the IRC idea - at first I saw those dreaded letters and thought it'd be terrible but I like it. It definitely eliminates the issues of the IAMA threads, but at the same time not as many people would be able to see it and after the event's done it's gone, so... idk. There are positives and negatives to both. I think that maybe, while the IRC idea really helps eliminate the issues with such threads, it's not as widely visible to the community as a thread is so maybe it'd not do the job as well as it could.

Kura
April 2nd, 2013, 12:22 PM
...ignore the part where I said anything about interesting and influential, haha. The threads'd be for anyone to make so anyone who wants to make one, can make one. Idk why I said that.

As for the IRC idea - at first I saw those dreaded letters and thought it'd be terrible but I like it. It definitely eliminates the issues of the IAMA threads, but at the same time not as many people would be able to see it and after the event's done it's gone, so... idk. There are positives and negatives to both. I think that maybe, while the IRC idea really helps eliminate the issues with such threads, it's not as widely visible to the community as a thread is so maybe it'd not do the job as well as it could.

Well it could be ongoing, and people can always sign up for the next week or they can sign up for multiple weeks if they wanted to. I'm sure it or the IRC would be visible if we made an announcement or if we put it on the header of Other Chat or so.

Maybe Celebrations section can then be turned into Celebrations and Community Events and it can be put there? Or have it as another subsection. I wouldnt want to make the sections messy but it's just a thought.

Otherwise the IAMA would have to have its own section like MemberClubs otherwise I can see it overpowering other sections with other discussion going on?

Vital
April 2nd, 2013, 12:23 PM
I like the idea of this a lot, though I kinda worry about the fact that that might specifically become like a popularity contest.

I think an idea like the one Razor mentioned would inevitable brings shades of popularity into play. I think it's sort of unavoidable, just think about it. A popular thread would mean the person is well known and complimented. If you're a person many people might not know about, then it makes perfect sense that yours won't be so replied too. Does that make sense?

Maybe we can make the IRC have like a sort of "QUESTIONS EVENT" every once in a while, where up to 3 (or however many) members sign up every Friday to answer questions about themselves on the IRC. That way the IRC gets activity, (I say three in case a couple get suddenly busy, or if the IRC is dead they can always ask questions to each other until someone new pops up,) and it can essentially be like the same thing and whatnot.
It'll take away the whole "My IAMA thread has more posts than yours" and take away who is allowed to have an IAMA thread or who might get ignored if they posted in one IAMA thread in favour for someone with more postcount or popularity or whatever.

Hmmmmm, I'm 50/50 on this idea. On one half, it solves the popularity issue that you brought up, but on the other, it also makes the thing turn into a game show of sorts. Wrong analogy, but it seems weird. There's also the fact that IRC is dead, but I guess with enough publicizing, we could go over that hill and finally give the IRC some well deserved activity. I like the idea more than I dislike it, that's for sure. It kind of feels like a PC event every week or something. :3

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I like it. =D

adventure
April 2nd, 2013, 12:24 PM
compliments thread, diary of what nice things has been done to you today etc thread ideas
I just have to say something about this. I don't think it's a good idea. You are all focusing and worrying too much about what others think of you. Online, of all places! Showing appreciation should be done genuinely by complimenting a person because you want to and have the balls to do it. Not because there's a place where you might even be expected to post something because someone might think you're not appreciative otherwise (ok that was a bad case future scenario but still). And if you don't have the balls to compliment someone when you think they deserve it, via PM or VM or by liking a post or by post comments (it's what I do quite often) then just don't! It's no big deal.

getting-to-know-staff more kind of thread idea
Good idea. Like "Meet the staff". Just with a little form that mods can fill in (with every field being optional, of course) like age, location, occupation, twitter, tumblr, main interests, favorite word, favorite soup I dunno. And probably a little field where the staff member can type up 100 words or so with a little presentation.

That way there would be an easily accessible place where we can look up who's really controlling our favorite section when a new mod suddenly pops up on the forum leader's page. And smods and admins too, since we maybe don't see admins out posting around sections as much as the local mods and therefore they naturally might feel a bit more unapproachable. Really, it doesn't have to be more complicated than that, no walls of texts (that's what the biographies on their profiles are for if they want, right?) and no members poking their posts into the thread asking stuff they could do in a friendly, personal convo via VM.

The reason I can see for having a thread where a mod makes one such post each (and I guess it gets deleted if they are demodded) is to keep this interesting info in one place rather than have members click around the mod's profiles to check it out, where some things might not be listed anyways. (wasn't there such a thread in the staff forum couple of years ago? I bet it's there still. That was just with contact info though, this could be more fun-like perhaps)


I just kind of mostly wanted to react to this new view a lot of you seem to have - that everything should be questioned and evaluated and personally discussed. Just... We come here in our free time to blow off some steam or whatever. Not to live a second life. lol as if I've not been living my second life here Hope you get what I'm trying to say and not just see this as garble garble rant derp.

:]

Melody
April 2nd, 2013, 12:44 PM
I'm reminded of something that used to be on a forum I'm a member of a long time back. Basically there was a section which was full of threads just asking the thread's creator questions about them, chatting about the answers, etc. If anyone's a Reddit user, sort of similar to IAMA threads. They weren't strictly member fanclubs per se since the aim of those threads was to get to know users rather than to kiss the ground they walk on, but I think you get the idea. They were essentially used to get to know interesting and influential members of the community as well as... just about anyone else, really.

Does this make sense, and how would anyone feel about such a thing on PokéCommunity? Or is it kinda over-the-top? Just a (probably horrible lol) suggestion which I may as well as throw out there.

I honestly think that's a great idea. Especially for those members here on PC who simply don't have a blog to use because they're too young to donate themselves! Heck, sometimes it makes sense to have a thread...just because. Post count wouldn't have to matter there either...and you could use a thread like that to interact with people.

Yes, we do have VMs, but not everyone wants to VM silly questions. That and having a thread about one's self would enable people to basically give sort of an expanded bio or whatever other information is pertinent. You could go to town on the CSS and formatting and really list out everything you want to! (Within reason of course) Personally I think VMs are simply better for a quick and non-intrusive message to others, but I would like to have a place I can point the newbies to

But we have blogs right?, some people do anyways. Not everyone can donate, because they're too young. Sometimes even sneaking out a letter to Steve with a few weeks of allowance might be something a kid can't get away with easily. 5000 posts is a pretty tall order too, if you just want a blog and have to attend school 8 hours a day and spend 4 hours on homework too.

Echidna
April 2nd, 2013, 01:03 PM
Wow, both Kura's and Harry's ideas are great! An appreciation thread and a get-to-know-your-fellow-member section! Of course imo, posts shouldn't count in either because they could get pretty SPAMy in a sense. But yes, I do agree that both these ideas could help promote friendliness around the forums as well as remove any of those rank-barriers that newer members see.

Vital
April 2nd, 2013, 01:06 PM
Oh, I forgot to say that I do like Harry's idea. Possibly more so than Kura's simply because it's something that people can look back on. I don't know about you, but I'd like to be able to go back to the compliments I get and smile. I hope that doesn't make me sound egotistical or anything.

Zorua
April 2nd, 2013, 01:31 PM
It'll take away the whole "My IAMA thread has more posts than yours" and take away who is allowed to have an IAMA thread or who might get ignored if they posted in one IAMA thread in favour for someone with more postcount or popularity or whatever.

Disagree. The same problem could occur within IRC as well, and arguably it could actually be worse. Consider this: You're pushing for activity for the IRC (which is understandable, of course!), but the huge problem with that is that so many people can be talking at once, and not everyone's questions could ever really be answered (in a timely manner, or otherwise). If possible, then the staff could allow exceptions within the revival rule as well as the double-posting rule, allowing staff themselves to revive their AMAs if they died, or to bump it if it becomes too inactive, things of that nature.

I hope I got this right. @_@

Oryx
April 2nd, 2013, 01:59 PM
Disagree. The same problem could occur within IRC as well, and arguably it could actually be worse. Consider this: You're pushing for activity for the IRC (which is understandable, of course!), but the huge problem with that is that so many people can be talking at once

You haven't been on the IRC lately have you? It's pretty much a ghost town. There's no danger of there being too much activity.

Zorua
April 2nd, 2013, 02:02 PM
You haven't been on the IRC lately have you? It's pretty much a ghost town. There's no danger of there being too much activity.

Um...however true that is, that was kind of rude. Yes, I know that I haven't been on IRC in a long time, but I still don't understand what having it on the IRC would achieve that having it's own forum wouldn't. But that's just me.

Oryx
April 2nd, 2013, 02:07 PM
Sorry, I didn't mean it that way at all. :( It was meant as a joke, since it's so completely dead.

Zorua
April 2nd, 2013, 02:11 PM
Sorry, I didn't mean it that way at all. :( It was meant as a joke, since it's so completely dead.

Eh, no worries. xD; I kind of took it out of context anyway, so my fault. ^^;;

In any case yeah, I understand (especially since it's pretty much common knowledge now) that the IRC hardly gets any activity at all. Now now, don't get me wrong, I wouldn't oppose it by any means (my last post was disagreeing with the point that "my AMAs has more posts than yours", etc), but I guess I have a hard time of really understanding how it would function in practice. Oraganization is a huge thing for me, and I just have the fear of people asking too many questions at once, and then it becomes hard to keep track of, y'know?

But you visit the IRC more than I do, and to be fair, this is really honestly something I just pulled out of a hat, if anything else. More like a worst case scenario that, given from your post, isn't too likely to happen.

droomph
April 2nd, 2013, 02:31 PM
How about some sort of "Question Box" thing?

I don't know if this is even a good idea honestly, but I'll just throw it out there.

On the IRC, you send a PM to the person that's the questioned, and if they want to, they can answer the question in public.

…yeah, something like that

Jak
April 2nd, 2013, 02:36 PM
I hate to be a butt but um...isn't this whole thread topic about this thread thing kinda...detracting from the point of this thread? We're not exactly discussing staff feedback anymore so...just thought I'd say something...

Kura
April 2nd, 2013, 02:45 PM
Disagree. The same problem could occur within IRC as well, and arguably it could actually be worse. Consider this: You're pushing for activity for the IRC (which is understandable, of course!), but the huge problem with that is that so many people can be talking at once, and not everyone's questions could ever really be answered (in a timely manner, or otherwise). If possible, then the staff could allow exceptions within the revival rule as well as the double-posting rule, allowing staff themselves to revive their AMAs if they died, or to bump it if it becomes too inactive, things of that nature.

I hope I got this right. @_@

Hmm that could be true enough, really.. so what is another solution? If we're going to consider the Questions/ AMA threads, would there have to be a section for it? Or would it just be like one big thread in OT like "Ask the below user a question" sorta thing? But.. now that I think of it, don't we have that already or something similar?


Edit: My bad, is there a way we can move it onto a new thread/ make a new thread about it and move these posts into the new thread?

Sorry for derailing the convo, I didn't expect this to happen.

bobandbill
April 2nd, 2013, 02:52 PM
If you want you can go for a new thread in this section to discuss the ideas and maybe collect them together in the one post, it's already getting a bit hard to follow it all haha.

shenanigans
April 2nd, 2013, 02:56 PM
Indeed.

Anyway, onward with the staff feedback, please! :D

Kura
April 5th, 2013, 10:41 AM
I don't mean to specifically bring the convo back to making threads, but if the staff bio thread isn't going to happen, do we happen to have a "What is a Moderator" thread? I mean.. we stress this is a kids forum.. and even I didn't know what some of the higher staff of H staff actually do. Maybe not as its own thread, but in the FAQ we can just give a little description of what a mod is there for vs. what higher staff is there for and what their responsibilities generally are?
Either that or it could be put in the staff bio thread on the top as an add-on. :3 Just a thought about it to help give the members more insight if you wanted.

Also.. not sure about this, but are there going to be official blog rules posted? Or am I just blind and they are here already? >_> I hope posting this here is okay anyways.


I'd also like to welcome Bloodex as staff too. I think you guys made an awesome choice as he's a really friendly guy, approachable, easy to talk to and patient, and unbiased too! :3 Welcome as Mod, Bloodex!!

Echidna
April 5th, 2013, 11:16 AM
I don't mean to specifically bring the convo back to making threads, but if the staff bio thread isn't going to happen, do we happen to have a "What is a Moderator" thread? I mean.. we stress this is a kids forum.. and even I didn't know what some of the higher staff of H staff actually do. Maybe not as its own thread, but in the FAQ we can just give a little description of what a mod is there for vs. what higher staff is there for and what their responsibilities generally are?
Either that or it could be put in the staff bio thread on the top as an add-on. :3 Just a thought about it to help give the members more insight if you wanted.
http://www.pokecommunity.com/faq.php?faq=pokecommunity_faq#faq_positions?
Also.. not sure about this, but are there going to be official blog rules posted? Or am I just blind and they are here already? >_> I hope posting this here is okay anyways.
Blogs

Your blog is like your online diary, for all members to see (you're free to fine-tune your privacy options, however). You're allowed to blog about anything, whether it's about the new Pokémon game you've just bought, commentary on something that's happened in the news, your PokéCommunity life, or anything else. Blogs are available to Tier 2 Community Supporters and staff members, as well as members who have accumulated 5000 posts or more. The PokéCommunity forum-wide rules apply to both blog entries and comments.

Try to keep your comments positive.
Please keep unnecessarily negative, rude, or meaningless comments to yourself and off the blogs.

Avoid posting more than one blog entry in the same day.
So that others don't have to filter through several meaningless blog entries from the same person, try to post only one entry within the span of a day. If you're the most recent blogger, you should simply add more to your blog post rather than create a new entry.

Word and character limits don't apply.
You should try and ensure that you have meaningful blog posts or comments, but note that we won't be enforcing the four word rule or 25-character limits in blogs.

Do not give out any personal information.
Giving out information such as your full name, your address or telephone number can be very dangerous online. Be cautious when sharing information.

Kura
April 5th, 2013, 11:24 AM
Ooh thanks for that Pedro! I really am blind LOL!

Maybe the rules should be updated to include like.. no snarky blogs about members? I remember a few of them posted over the last few months and them getting deleted so it might be good idea to update it in the rules?

Ausaudriel
April 5th, 2013, 11:25 AM
We're going to do the staff bio/introduction thread. 8) We've just got some other stuff going on first.

Echidna
April 5th, 2013, 11:46 AM
Ooh thanks for that Pedro! I really am blind LOL!

Maybe the rules should be updated to include like.. no snarky blogs about members? I remember a few of them posted over the last few months and them getting deleted so it might be good idea to update it in the rules?

I remember one a long time ago that pissed me off really. Some guy took a screenshot of something he deemed 'stupid' and apparently worthy of public humiliation, posted it and commented on it and It wasn't even deleted either u_u

And don't worry about it xD

Cherrim
April 5th, 2013, 12:00 PM
Ooh thanks for that Pedro! I really am blind LOL!

Maybe the rules should be updated to include like.. no snarky blogs about members? I remember a few of them posted over the last few months and them getting deleted so it might be good idea to update it in the rules?
The forumwide rules apply to blogs (I guess that line could be bolded but since every aspect of PC usually contains the line "all PC rules apply here", it never really seemed important). Anything mean/rude to members would fall under the "Respect all members" rule so I don't think it needs to be repeated so specifically under blogs.

Though I guess changing the "keep your comments positive" rule to encompass both blog entries and comments wouldn't really hurt. I don't really like the wording on that one because I don't think it gets the essence of what the rule means, which is not to be malicious in any way. (Because you can still have a comment that's technically negative but still polite and constructive that would be within the rules.)

marz
April 14th, 2013, 01:33 AM
Good job reforming the off-topic forum.

Hoenn
April 15th, 2013, 04:51 AM
Well honestly I think it's a real hard time for you mods out there especially since you have to be on guard all the time. I mean like, you'll always have to deal with problems with off-boarders and stuff and I respect our staff for such wonderful handling of the community. Nothing better can be done to improve stuff around here, and all the mods are constantly friendly (I'm just quoting what's everyone's opinion).

So, I'll say almost all of the staff people quite frankly intimidate me. And a lot, too. I think other people would feel that way too no matter how friendly/helpful you guys are. Maybe because I don't pick up much conversations or something, but it scares you off to see the Staff's badge below your name. In fact, I'm gonna be real scared right now posting this here.

Of course, I really think that the staff get very active around here, and one thing I really like is that one second and BOOM. There's a mod switch. No warning, no rumors, nothing. Information never leaks out until it's made public. That's pretty tight and I think that's way too cool.

Fortunately, it seems ALWAYS that the right person for the job has the specified position. That way you guys seem to get the people's interest without consulting them.

I think the best stuff I like is all the group activities and things, and this gives loads of opportunities for people to participate and feel part of this community.

I'd like to see more of these kinds of activities around here, tho.

And I think we could expand the non-Pokémon forums more, even though this is a very Pokémon based community, it seems there are loads of things we could talk about to boot.

Ben.
April 15th, 2013, 06:22 AM
Some feedback on all the staff in general
You should really inform the community on happening such as promotion/demotion/LoA. It seems at the minute the only information on this is for promotions is a little thread in the celebrations with huge text. Demotions there is really nothing, and LoA's are only known on vm's by talking to the person with a vm saying "err ma gerr ur not a mod :O" I honestly think it'd be so much nicer to be told about some being promoted and why. I've seen people get promoted with no other due reason than their post count.* Obviously LoA may be more personal and the person may not want to share why, which is perfect understandable. Maybe just interactive with the community, even a thread of these things.
*You can't tell me I'm wrong because no one has told the community any different.

Went
April 15th, 2013, 07:21 AM
I can accept adding promotions/demotions in the update thread -in fact, when we discussed what should go there we talked about this very point and in the end we didn't go ahead because there was kind of a split on the staff, although we can certainly go ahead if there is a general member support for ir.

I honestly think it'd be so much nicer to be told about some being promoted and why. I've seen people get promoted with no other due reason than their post count.

Oh, but the general rule of thumb IS written in the FAQ:

Moderators are chosen for their assets to the forum. If you would like to be a potential candidate, be sure to be kind, helpful, and make smart, quality posts. Don't spam and respect all those around you. When a moderator is needed in one of the areas you are constantly active in, you may be asked.

The Modding forum is full of threads with "X guy reports a lot and is very active in Y and writes a lot of thoughtful TL,DR's so let's promote them". Really. We generally watch all forums (or ask the mods who are supposed to), check for regular members who stand out and then discuss them. If a majority of us are satisfied, we go ahead. Is "having a lot of postcount" a valid reason? Not by itself, but it certainly shows activity and interest, which are two things we do value. Then again, we have modded people with less than 600 posts in two years, so postcount is never a valid reason alone.

Also I'd really like to hear names- I know it's easier to smear people when you can hide in the "well you know who I'm talking about" vagueness, but I certainly would like to know who is/are those people you think were unfairly modded, so we can defend our choices.

You can't tell me I'm wrong because no one has told the community any different.
That's called argumentum ad ignorantiam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance) and is considered a logical fallacy. The fact that you don't know the reasons why someone was chosen does not imply that your opinions about it must be necessarily true.

Guy
April 15th, 2013, 07:54 AM
About adding moderator activity status updates to the "Small Changes & Updates" thread, I always thought that was a good idea to do. It's an easy and simple way of keeping members of the community informed about a moderator's status. It also cuts down on the numerous members going to VM or PM said moderator on whether they resigned or if they're just taking a break. It's also a good way in that if a moderator is on a LoA or DLoA, then members at least know to either contact the second mod of the forum (if there is one) or report to a higher staff member for the time being. Honestly, this sort of thing doesn't happen excessively here, so it wouldn't be like the thread would have to be constantly updated either.

There would also be no need to go into specific detail either should the moderator not wish to share why. For example, a simple update such as "Aerilyn is currently on a two week Demotion Leave of Absense" would suffice in my opinion.

PS. Aerilyn is not on a two week DLoA nor plans to be on one anytime soon.

Arago
April 15th, 2013, 08:14 AM
I am okay with updating members when promotions are done. I'm not so sure we need to go into the why, because the why seems fairly obvious to me. They're the best person for the job.

I'm slightly hesitant to post DLoAs because demotions are done as well. Demotions are pretty sensitive things sometimes. To have the entire community knowing that you were demoted can be slightly embarrassing for some, and if we decide to post DLoAs, if someone is suddenly not a staff member anymore, then its safe to assume that they were removed by the higher ups of their rank.

LoAs I don't feel are necessary to post, because when you're on an LoA, you're still expected to do as much as you can when you're on.

Guy
April 15th, 2013, 08:28 AM
if we decide to post DLoAs, if someone is suddenly not a staff member anymore, then its safe to assume that they were removed by the higher ups of their rank.
I'm not sure what you mean here. If an update was made commenting on a moderator taking a DLoA, I don't see why anyone would assume that staff member would have been fired or removed from staff from a higher up permanently.

In the case of demotions, I was thinking something vague and more along the lines of "_____ is no longer a part of the Community Staff." This doesn't imply that they were fired and it doesn't imply that they resigned. It means what it says, they are no longer a part of the staff team.

If members want to know more than that, then they're always free to ask the person in question should that person want to explain in further detail.

As for Leave of Absences, I agree, I don't think that needs to be included in there. Those occur more often than DLoAs, resignations, and demotions and are more prone to changing at times, whether it be longer or shorter.

I just think it's a beneficial act of keeping the community aware of a moderator's current status from time to time.

shenanigans
April 15th, 2013, 08:32 AM
I don't have time for a huge reply right now but I'll just quickly post to say that I like the idea of promotions in there and wondered why they didn't get included before, but I don't want LoAs, DLoAs or demotions since people might not want widespread attention drawn to those things. If I had to leave for unfortunate reasons, for example, the last thing I'd want is an announcement which'd prompt people to flood me with "omg why u no staff any more?!?!?!" more than they already do. Most people include a small note on their profile, in their sig, or as a forum post to show that they're away for anyone who cares anyway.

Jak
April 15th, 2013, 08:36 AM
I agree with adding promotions, however a demotion is more like negative attention, unless the mod in question wants people to know. But usually when they do, they post a blog about it or something to let people know why they left/were fired. And if they don't want people to know, it shouldn't be spread out to the world. But promotions is a very important thing that I think should be added. After all, it's nice to know who to go to on the forums, especially when it's someone being modded in a section that was previously modless.

edit: LoAs I don't think need to be listed, but DLoAs should be up to the discretion of the staff member taking them as to whether or not they want everyone to know. That's just imo.

Oryx
April 15th, 2013, 08:40 AM
I'm not sure what you mean here. If an update was made commenting on a moderator taking a DLoA, I don't see why anyone would assume that staff member would have been fired or removed from staff from a higher up permanently.

I think his point was that if you include DLoAs in the updates thread, then if you see someone is not a mod anymore and there is no update in the DLoA thread, you can draw the conclusion that they're no longer on the staff team without having a post spelling it out for the possible embarrassment of said staff member.

I would be okay with a post that was ambiguous enough to not give details on if it was a forced demotion or a resignation, but I could understand why some people may not like seeing that after making their decision/getting demoted. I think having it note DLoAs and letting members draw the obvious conclusion from that would be a nice compromise.

Zorua
April 15th, 2013, 11:34 AM
Throughout the many years that I've seen people come and go from the PC staff, 9 times out of 10, if they leave, they choose to keep that reason private. Regardless of whether or not it's a DloA, LoA, or anything like that, I personally feel that it's not really our business to know why that specific mod is on a DloA, LoA, or anything like that. Of course, I can completely understand the member's point of view in that yes, it can be confusing to tell whether or not a mod has resigned, or took a DloA, or anything like that, because it all looks the same: They don't have a bold name nor a userbar, so the lingering question is this: what happened to them?

But at the same time, is that really a question that should be asked in public? I mean, I can understand if you're a friend, and if you ask them (albeit, privately), then that's something different, but I agree with the staff that have posted that it would draw unwarranted attention. If the mod wishes to share the reasons behind their DloA/LoA, then that's their business, but by no reason should any reason be obligatory by any means.

So it's a very iffy situation. I mean, ultimately, it comes down to this question: What are the members going to do with that information? We all know the reason why the h-staff needs to know of course: They need to keep track of moderator activity, to keep track of who's active and who isn't, and things of that nature, but what are the members going to do with that information, exactly? I feel like it's more like a kind of thing that members need to know to satisfy curiosity more than anything else, but at the same time, if you look at the opposite side, sometimes it's not always curiosity and more like genuine concern. But again, it's really up the mod in question whether or not they would share those details.

As far as promotions/demotions go, I really feel like my sediments reflect Shivi's exactly. No one needs to know why a mod is demoted, and it can be really embarrassing if the community knew, so why not ambiguously word it? That way, the members would know that x staff member isn't on staff anymore. Sure, the question would still come (and lets be honest, I don't really feel that there's a true way to stop that. There's going to come no matter what, really), but that would reflect back to what I said about the mod having the responsibility on whether or not they would share those details.

My two cents. ^^; Hope it all made sense.

Yusshin
April 15th, 2013, 01:51 PM
I'd love to hear about promotions, but demotions are a bit more of a private thing. I'd not want to know why, but I'd also like to see an ambiguous notice about it that doesn't imply having been fired or having left by self-initiative.

Someone else posted a nice phrase for that i.e. [Username] is no longer part of PC's Staff, but their time in service is fully appreciated and recognized.

Kinda adds a positive thing to a negative while keeping people informed of it all.

In regards to this thread itself,

TwilightBlade is an old acquaintance of mine that I've tried to recently get in touch with. She introduced me to breeding and gave me an Energy Ball Vulpix in HGSS (if I recall correctly). She's fun, knowledgeable and definitely the go-to sMod for me. I think in '10 she was just a bitty Mod. I'm glad you got this promotion, whenever that happened during my hiatus lol

Forever is awesome. So attentive, active, funny and approachable. I've known her for three years (although, we haven't talked in two or so formally), but she's still the same bean she's always been. Really, a great choice on the staff's part.

BinaryPeaches is MIA. I never see her anymore. Where did you go Tara? You were everywhere in '10! Your tentacle reach knew no bounds; yet, nowadays, I've maybe seen you post a handful of times. More activity is needed on your part. As a person, though, you're fantastic!

I don't really know the other staff members enough to be able to comment on their contributions, activity, etc. There are certain staffies that have left since '10 that I'm happy are gone, though. The current staff appears well-constructed and functional, which is always good.

:)

Melody
April 15th, 2013, 02:11 PM
Personally I don't believe there's any harm in denoting when someone takes a DLoA. A permanent demotion/resignation should probably be silent, for it's that member's business to choose when or if they tell anyone who asks.

I don't believe there's any harm in noting the DLoA status simply; nobody is forcing anybody to ask reasons, and it doesn't matter if 5000 people do want to know the reason, they don't have to get one. To want to refuse to do something that would increase overall transparency seems just a tad strange and suspicious if you want to be paranoid about it.

I see no reason to continue a policy that is probably doing more harm than good in the long run, because it makes members uneasy.

bobandbill
April 15th, 2013, 04:38 PM
I'm fine with promotions being updated/mentioned publically (and always have), and tbh would probably prefer a note about demotions as well. Mods get asked regardless, and there's no need for a reason to be stated with it. I suppose if a mod doesn't want it to be mentioned in the thread that can be allowed too so it'd be up to them on if they want mention... but then I'd rather all one way or the other in the end with demotion notices.

Logiedan
April 15th, 2013, 05:11 PM
I'm just going to suggest the obvious and what everyone has been trying to say about demotes/promotes is to have a closed thread updated by administrators whenever possible about moderators coming or going. It can be brief and requires no explanation because that's more on a personal level and can be discussed if the demoted/retired mod chooses to discuss about between members and only between members off/on-site.

I would agree what bobandbill said that moderators would get spammed through VMs about how they got demoted, but I just think on a more official level that the thread would be a good timeline that feeds consistent updates and all of the publication of reasons is up to the moderator. I don't think it would be a good idea to have it public though.


X , moderator of [forum], is no longer part of staff
Y , has joined staff and is now a moderator of [forum]

X , previous moderator of [forum] has been promoted to [blah]


It doesn't have to be wordy, and it's subtle enough to have information undisclosed on how the staff member has left office.

dloa/loa should be kept private at all times imo

Oryx
April 15th, 2013, 05:33 PM
Could we merge this with the small updates thread so we don't have 29403829048 stickies?

Ausaudriel
April 15th, 2013, 10:23 PM
I prefer organized 29403829048 threads over 4 bunched-up and disorganized threads.

Oryx
April 16th, 2013, 04:04 AM
Is a "Forum/Staff Updates" thread disorganized?

shenanigans
April 16th, 2013, 04:11 AM
...wait, I'm really confused. When you say "this", which thread are you referring to? I thought you meant the thread we're in now which makes no sense to me at all but now idk. Do you mean that staff updates would be posted on the forum updates thread? I thought it was almost a given that that's how it'd work.

Zorua
April 16th, 2013, 06:48 AM
Personally, I thought it could go well, either way. The Forum Changes are small and condensed enough to allow for easy reading, so I'd imagine any staff changes would be the same way. It wouldn't make a significant difference if, for example, it was made into an entirely different thread. It would be easy reading either way. It's not like we have to waft through a forest of posts to find something, though I'd understand that, in the long run, it can get slightly confusing (assuming the thread gets huge enough, which it probably would).
In which, the staff updates getting it's own thread might be a wiser idea.

Went
April 16th, 2013, 06:59 AM
I'd rather put both in the same thread, we don't get enough staff changes to mantain a thread exclusively about those.

Oryx
April 16th, 2013, 07:37 AM
Yeah when I said "this" I meant "this idea", not "this thread". Sorry if I confused.

shenanigans
April 16th, 2013, 08:01 AM
Oh right. Yeah I'm absolutely for those updates being done in the small update thread. B)

Also about demotions and DLoAs being posted in the thread - still a definite no from me. I'll put it this way - I've gone on DLoA before due to some pretty big deal medical issues which were, at the time, something I was feeling pretty bad about and I didn't really want to be dealing with a load of people asking what was wrong. If, at that time, the Small Updates thread had been posted and my DLoA had been logged in it, I'd have been bombarded by people asking me where I'd gone / what was wrong / hoping to see me back soon / whatever which, while the thought is nice, would have been incredibly irritating and not at all something I needed to be dealing with. A lot of DLoAs are due to either exams or circumstances outside of a staff member's control, such as my one which I just mentioned. I don't think for a minute that people on DLoA for such reasons need bombarding and really, it's pretty inconsequential to members if a mod leaves and hstaff take over. DLoAs are a matter between the staff member in question and higher staff and I don't see why we need to inform members of them, honestly. Ye can see if a staff member's not bolded any more and leave it at that. I don't really want to broadcast to the entire community that someone's had to take time off or leave; it's up to them to tell who they want to and they shouldn't be bothered with questions regarding their leave if they don't want to be.

I'd like to re-address some stuff that came up earlier a lot in this thread. I saw quite a lot of people saying that they're intimidated by higher staff because they feel like we're gonna tell them off for something, that they're in trouble, etc., but I'd like to know where this belief comes from. Do we come across as too strict in public or overly standoffish or what? Or is it just the fact that we could do those things that's scary, even if it's not something we do particularly often?

adventure
April 16th, 2013, 08:24 AM
^ It's the fact that you could do those things. The fact that I might hesitate before randomly VMing a h-staff or addressing them directly because if I were to somehow upset them or if they were to ignore me, it would feel like much bigger of a deal than with a nonstaff member. Because you have formal authority and could do things.

shenanigans
April 16th, 2013, 08:37 AM
Ah, that's the answer I really didn't want, haha. Because if it's the fact that we're able to do stuff that bothers people then I really don't know how to deal with that. No matter how friendly and visible around the community we are and whatnot, that ability to do stuff isn't going anywhere, so I... kinda don't see how we can fix it. But maybe I'm just wrong there, idk. Thoughts, anyone?

Zorua
April 16th, 2013, 08:38 AM
I certainly cannot speak for anyone, but I feel that, if it helps clarify some things (though maybe not), people might be afraid of the higher staff because some of them give off an aura of "we're silently and collectively judging you" kind of thing.

It does really suck to be misunderstood like that (especially since I used to be afraid for those very same reasons), but that's pretty much what I can gather. .__.

abnegation
April 16th, 2013, 09:11 AM
but I feel that, if it helps clarify some things (though maybe not), people might be afraid of the higher staff because some of them give off an aura of "we're silently and collectively judging you" kind of thing.
I think that's common paranoia. For me, I don't like saying things about people that I wouldn't say to them directly. Higher staff don't delve that deep into the characteristics of day-to-day members. So I'd say knock that one out of the ballpark.

adventure
April 16th, 2013, 09:12 AM
Ah, that's the answer I really didn't want, haha. Because if it's the fact that we're able to do stuff that bothers people then I really don't know how to deal with that. No matter how friendly and visible around the community we are and whatnot, that ability to do stuff isn't going anywhere, so I... kinda don't see how we can fix it. But maybe I'm just wrong there, idk. Thoughts, anyone?

It's not that strange actually. You hold positions of "official" authority here and authorities always make some people apprehensive, at least when colorful/bold/italicized names and userbars bleat out I BE STAFF whenever you post ^^ There would be tricky things with taking away the colors or styles though, like people don't knowing who to approach with forum problems and stuff, so I'll just not even suggest that as a joke ^^

Shiny Celebi
April 16th, 2013, 09:24 AM
Sometimes people are just intimidated and wary of people in positions of authority and forum staff are no different. I've experienced this feeling myself(though not from the staff of this forum)

Echidna
April 16th, 2013, 11:35 AM
I'd like to re-address some stuff that came up earlier a lot in this thread. I saw quite a lot of people saying that they're intimidated by higher staff because they feel like we're gonna tell them off for something, that they're in trouble, etc., but I'd like to know where this belief comes from. Do we come across as too strict in public or overly standoffish or what? Or is it just the fact that we could do those things that's scary, even if it's not something we do particularly often?
I think it's just irrational fear of the authority you hold. It's quite similar to how even completely innocent and upright citizens feel the need to look innocent when they drive by / walk by a police officer. It's just second nature for people to be afraid of law/rule enforcement/ers.

It may come off as if they're intimidated by the staff because some of them are the silent types, but I'm pretty sure (as the case was with me) that such intimidation roots from the basic fear of authority. If I saw two silent types, I'd only be afraid of the staff member between them. Or at least would have been in the past.

Kura
April 16th, 2013, 11:58 AM
I think it stems from the threads-closed-for-no-reason that used to happen, the sarcastic remarks people would sometimes get, and the seemingly no-mercy "I'll infract you 10 times before messaging you if you need help."

Example? JustinRPG. Look at some of the thread he has posted here in this section. In some, the mods seem very lovely, and helpful.. but in others, mods overreact "OH MY GOD HOW MANY TIMES DO WE NEED TO TELL YOU?? *lock*"
Let's say he or any other person didn't get it even after the 15th+ time.. as a member I still expect staff to be more respectful and patient (or just put it kindly, even if it's blunt) because.. well.. that's why you were modded right? I get that it can be frustrating.. especially if there was something that was ongoing.. but I think if the community doesn't even have the chance to see that sort of unsavory behavior in the first place, you guys can be seen as more approachable.

Just a suggestion.

Edit:
Also
people might be afraid of the higher staff because some of them give off an aura of "we're silently and collectively judging you" kind of thing.

I certainly feel this way.

Oryx
April 16th, 2013, 12:17 PM
When you talk about professionalism and politeness Kura, are you specifically talking about when we're doing official things such as locking threads, or just overall in general when we're posting around? Just clarifying. :3

Echidna
April 16th, 2013, 12:24 PM
I think it stems from the threads-closed-for-no-reason that used to happen, the sarcastic remarks people would sometimes get, and the seemingly no-mercy "I'll infract you 10 times before messaging you if you need help."

Example? JustinRPG. Look at some of the thread he has posted here in this section. In some, the mods seem very lovely, and helpful.. but in others, mods overreact "OH MY GOD HOW MANY TIMES DO WE NEED TO TELL YOU?? *lock*"
Let's say he or any other person didn't get it even after the 15th+ time.. as a member I still expect staff to be more respectful and patient (or just put it kindly, even if it's blunt) because.. well.. that's why you were modded right? I get that it can be frustrating.. especially if there was something that was ongoing.. but I think if the community doesn't even have the chance to see that sort of unsavory behavior in the first place, you guys can be seen as more approachable.
As much as this makes sense, I don't think using him as an example would be the best choice.

A) I literally think my brain is about to explode because of all of comments and concerns I have regarding this particular subject/member. I'd hate to let them loose even though I could word them in a way to fit the rules, but I'd still feel terrible on the inside.

B) If I had the time, I would quote to you from about 10% of all his posts, enough 'incidents' to justify a perma-ban...

I'll just stop there. I've seen most of his CQ&F threads and personally I think the level of self-restraint the staff showed in those threads was/is unprecedented. I don't know how they pulled it off.

Kudos.

Kura
April 16th, 2013, 12:26 PM
When you talk about professionalism and politeness Kura, are you specifically talking about when we're doing official things such as locking threads, or just overall in general when we're posting around? Just clarifying. :3

Both, really, in a way. There have been many times that thread have been locked with a sarcastic remark and only that.. or locked with no explanation. I think even if it's obvious, there should be a reason why it should be locked because maybe to some people, it's not so obvious.
And obviously, I don't think anyone can expect you to be saints, but if I see you being blatantly rude for the sake of being rude in regular posts, I'm.. not going to appreciate it even if I'm just a passerby. It's one thing to be blunt, and another thing to be super snarky, too. I understand when it's a joke, but if it's not it can be a bit sour. Overall, you guys are here to have fun, too, and posting crude yo' mama jokes is one thing, and acting catty towards someone is a whole other. Granted, I don't feel it's happened in quite a long while, so good on you guys, but it's something to always be wary of methinks.
I don't know what you guys have in the staff forum, but maybe a monthly like sorta review on conduct (GOOD and bad, because let's not forget the good stuff) might be helpful to you all, and maybe will also prevent activity from slipping for you guys too and make you motivated in the section that you care for.


I know this is longwinded, and sorry. The tldr version basically is:
Politeness more on staff actions (locking/ helping members) but you guys should just be wary of it elsewhere because people do look up to you so you wouldnt want it to reflect badly on you, or the rest of the staff.

Hope this helps.



Pedro: While the staff has been good pretty much most times with restraint with him, the times it has slipped I feel just reflect badly on the staff because I remember it and think "What if they reply that way to me?" I do. That's why I PM different staff now rather than post stuff; because I don't wanna keep bugging the same person/ team of people so I go to different mods.
But I digress, if he warranted it, it should be executed in a calm manner, locked saying "will PM member about this" and taken it up with the member. If it's spammy and not an actual concern/ if threads kept being made after warning said member to PM first before making threads, then the appropriate infraction should be made.

That's how I feel it should be handled.. because IMO it will help make staff more approachable. What happened then is the past, so let's take from that and learn from it. I think a few cases could have been handled better, so I'm putting my thoughts forward on the matter.

I used that as an example anyways because I remember it so vividly that's what popped into my head. I just wouldnt want to see something like that happen for anyone else from here on out.

Antemortem
April 16th, 2013, 01:13 PM
I feel like the staff as a whole could uphold some sort of professionalism in all areas rather consistently rather than only some of the time, because what if some member doesn't realize that someone has been doing the same thing repetitively, aka the staff member in question has a reason to be upset at the member in question? If I were that member and I saw the staff member losing their cool 'so easily,' I think I'd be somewhat intimidated as well. I definitely understand you guys in that respect.

Personally, I try my best to be as approachable as possible and love it when people feel like they can talk to me, because I love talking to other people, too! I might lose my composure sometimes, or come close to it, and I regret those instances where it completely turns some off to approaching me, because then I know I've failed as a person.

Kura
April 16th, 2013, 01:26 PM
instances where it completely turns some off to approaching me, because then I know I've failed as a person.

Woah woah.. I dont think anyone would want you to take it that far that you feel like a failure :c.. *Hug* We all understand if you may make a mistake or dislike how you handled a situation.. we all do that at times, but I dont think any of us would want you or any other staff member to feel bad about it! Especially not THAT bad!! ;_;

Jak
April 16th, 2013, 01:26 PM
I can't speak for every staff member, but as for myself, whenever I see something that I don't like or that bothers me and I want to give my initial reaction, I tend to just vent it to someone else I'm close to that's also on staff, like Razor Leaf, and respond or act on something later (unless it really needs urgent attention). But I can't guarantee that I'm going to be pleasant 100% of the time. I may be part of staff here, but I'm still a human being. I'm going to lose my cool at some point. Am I gonna feel bad later? Yes, I definitely will.

What I'm trying to say is that while I understand the "staff should be professional" thing, people still have to understand we are human beings just like every other non-staff member on this site. We can blow up just like any other person can (and also keep in mind, it is hard to keep cool when you have a member blowing up at you for little to no reason at all) and it's not just something we plan on doing.

I'm not saying that all staff should be mean whenever they want either. Just clarifying. But yeah, this is just my opinion on that whole matter, and tbh, I haven't seen any staff members going off harshly on people recently, so if there's been something like that lately and I've missed it, I'm sorry. And while I'm here, if you've ever gotten my grumpy side and were offended or bothered by it, I really do apologize. I have a horrible guilty conscience and I genuinely do feel awful when I realized that I've blown up at someone...though I can't think of any recent events. So yeah.

Personally, I try my best to be as approachable as possible and love it when people feel like they can talk to me, because I love talking to other people, too! I might lose my composure sometimes, or come close to it, and I regret those instances where it completely turns some off to approaching me, because then I know I've failed as a person.

This is what I mean when I say I start to feel bad, lol. :( I completely understand feeling like that, dear. <3 Just remember not to take it so hard.

Fairy
April 18th, 2013, 01:11 PM
I can't speak for every staff member, but as for myself, whenever I see something that I don't like or that bothers me and I want to give my initial reaction, I tend to just vent it to someone else I'm close to that's also on staff, like Razor Leaf, and respond or act on something later (unless it really needs urgent attention).

This. I think it's also worth mentioning that; as Sydian stated, when we do have moments of weakness or unintentional blow ups, we have a safety net in the other staff. If I totally go bonkers on some kid, I trust that the hstaff can come in, remove me from the incident, clarify things, organize the thread, and do some general cleaning up until I get my head on straight.

Of course, it's not that we expect hstaff to allow us to go berserk with total trust that it will be dealt with by someone else, but we do rely on one another to communicate and help when something goes askew. And naturally, this hypothetical mod that blew up would at least confront the issue, but my point is that we are a team and we try our best to do right by PC and it's members collectively.

Maybe this can also speak to some of the general fear of staff/hstaff -- at least those members who aren't necessarily intimidated because of the authority end of it, but are still wary. So does anyone feel that staff basically looks like a big clique? Or feel like we're too involved in a "staff group" as opposed to the community?

shenanigans
April 23rd, 2013, 11:19 AM
For people who wanted staff updates in the small update thread - okay (http://www.pokecommunity.com/showpost.php?p=7636676&postcount=18)! :D

Also, I'd like to echo Alexial's thoughts just there and invite anyone with something to say on the topic to reply. It'd be really helpful.

Zorua
April 23rd, 2013, 04:22 PM
While I'm waiting for my pizza to cool off (since I apparently left it in the microwave for too long, ugh. I knew I should've left it for just around 45 seconds), I'm going to write this nice tl;dr post. I kind of felt you guys deserved it, especially at this point, even though a lot of it has pretty much been said already.

You guys, as the Pokecommunity staff...I'm thankful for all of you. You guys create this thread, and it shows that you guys are really making an effort to get closer to the community. Honestly, I'd like to apologize for my own misconceptions about you guys, because I initially thought you guys were kind of like this one huge, intimidating clique or something, but I realized I was wrong. That you guys care about PC, that you guys love PC, and for that, I feel bad for having those misconceptions. D:

Honestly...I'm not going to say you guys are perfect, but that shouldn't be the aim of a staff team. I doubt any staff team on /any/ forum is perfect. You guys care about the community, and honestly, it's time for me to do something for you guys. I know a lot of you have explained a lot about yourselves, and tried defending yourselves against member misconceptions. It's time for me to do the same. I figured it might mean a lot more coming from a member standpoint, especially after knowing you guys after a while. So without further ado, here's my long post.

----

Where should I begin first? I can safely say that I know at least a good majority of the mods. While I'm not going to say that I speak with staff members all that frequently, I do enough to know the kind of people they are, and honestly, they're not as intimidating as you guys might think! They're regular people, just like you and me, just like that neighbor across the street, like the friends that you hang out with on a daily basis, y'know? They're people. They're people with a dedication to a Pokemon forum, and while some of them may question "well, why are you spending that much time on an internet forum?" I bet most of them can come up with a very simple answer. "Because I love this forum, and I've made many memories here".

This sounds like the cheesiest answer to give, but it's true! People have met each other here, people found relationships here, started strong bonds and whatnot, and you'd never would've thought it would've happened at first glance, just by looking at this site. This site is a true community, but it's staff is really what make it so enjoyable in the first place! When you need someone to talk to about a problematic member, there's always a staff member to help you out with your troubles.

Take it from me, guys. As someone that knows a good majority of the staff and have talked with at least a good majority of them once, I can definitely tell you that they don't bite, and hardly any of them are even intimidating in the slightest. They're very approachable, don't mind being asked questions, and really, they're there for a reason. They love PC, they treasure the memories that come with it, and they'd be already there to help you out whenever possible.

To all new members and old members alike that are intimidated of staff: Again, don't be. I realize that the concerns in this thread are because of what h-staff /could/ do and have the /capabilities/ of doing, and I suppose that makes sense in a way. They're powerful people in a sense, but they're responsible with it, otherwise they wouldn't be h-staff yeah? So really, there's no worries about that. ^^;

In any case...I hope this didn't come off as suckup-ish in any way. Just wanted to help you guys out. :3

This post wasn't as long as I hoped it would be. Oh well, this'll do!

droomph
April 23rd, 2013, 07:45 PM
Maybe this can also speak to some of the general fear of staff/hstaff -- at least those members who aren't necessarily intimidated because of the authority end of it, but are still wary. So does anyone feel that staff basically looks like a big clique? Or feel like we're too involved in a "staff group" as opposed to the community?Well, you guys are normal people, but you look different so…

Okay, let me use this example. Undercover police! You know how sometimes they go and "act like normal bros" and then arrest people when they slip up? That's basically what we feel like here. You're like "come on! Treat us like friends!" but most of us (me included) feel like we tell you something, and then you come busting in and like "STOP! YOU'RE UNDER ARREST!" or the Internet equivalent (or?).

Yeah, that wasn't a very good example, but my point is just that we feel like you all have something…to hide. However, if I got to know them as a member beforehand, I feel more comfortable with them.

My personal example is Razor Leaf. But Razor Leaf was a mod before I ever saw him. Why do I still get to feel like a friend? What was the difference? He VMed me first…he was my first impression of the forum…that's what's so different about him.

(Now, I'm not saying he's like the god of new member interactions, but that's the only example I could think of…:p)

Jak
April 23rd, 2013, 07:54 PM
Okay, let me use this example. Undercover police! You know how sometimes they go and "act like normal bros" and then arrest people when they slip up? That's basically what we feel like here. You're like "come on! Treat us like friends!" but most of us (me included) feel like we tell you something, and then you come busting in and like "STOP! YOU'RE UNDER ARREST!" or the Internet equivalent (or?).

I wouldn't think of us as under cover cops, though. Because you know we're on staff. It's not something that's a secret, like those cop cars that look like everyday cars.

Think of it this way...say you're friends with a cop and they catch you shoplifting. They're bound by their duty to arrest you, even though you're their friend. It's their job. Of course, actual law breaking is more of a serious offense than rule breaking on a forum, but I think you get what I mean. If you break a rule, especially a serious one, and you're a friend of the staff member that saw it, they still need to give you the proper punishment. Believe me, we hate to infract friends or delete their posts because, well, we're friends. But what needs to be done must be done.

I hope that all made sense. >.<

Yusshin
April 23rd, 2013, 08:11 PM
Believe me, we hate to infract friends or delete their posts because, well, we're friends.

We should all be friends! And then this wouldn't be an issue, because everyone has the same personal "status" for staffies and thus it becomes impersonal.

Yay!

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lbsgmxpgXf1qbs4q4o1_500.gif (http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=300099)

But in all seriousness, I've not had issues with staff members being in a "clique" or, for lack of a better term, being in a kind of union where they "protect their own" and don't socialize with people outside of their user group. The majority of moderators I see are very open and friendly while remaining mature and true to their job requirements. I most certainly do not see them as prowling Krookodiles waiting for a juicy Deerling to come prancing along unwarily, only to lunge themselves on their prey, grab hold of their neck and drag them down into the deepest part of the swamp.

Yay for Pokemon metaphors.

tabor62
April 23rd, 2013, 08:16 PM
To be honest, until I was modded recently, I was a little intimidated by all staff ('cept Trade ones and Cirno :P). Even though I knew that you were all normal people, just with more responsibility and power, it scared me a little haha. Though now that've I actually talked to and gotten know some of you, it lifted the fear from my mind (minus admins, they still intimidate me a tiny bit cuz of their godmode powers). I think the key to bridging the gap and lifting that fear from others is to reach out to members more often so that they get the feel of how you really are and get to know you.

Of course I'll still infract you or warn you, even if you're a close friend of mine.

droomph
April 24th, 2013, 02:16 PM
I wouldn't think of us as under cover cops, though. Because you know we're on staff. It's not something that's a secret, like those cop cars that look like everyday cars.

Think of it this way...say you're friends with a cop and they catch you shoplifting. They're bound by their duty to arrest you, even though you're their friend. It's their job. Of course, actual law breaking is more of a serious offense than rule breaking on a forum, but I think you get what I mean. If you break a rule, especially a serious one, and you're a friend of the staff member that saw it, they still need to give you the proper punishment. Believe me, we hate to infract friends or delete their posts because, well, we're friends. But what needs to be done must be done.

I hope that all made sense. >.<

Well, I said that I couldn't come up with a better example, but it just feels like you got something to hide and we're not falling for it. If you can "break the ice", we'll see what you have to "hide", and will feel more comfortable around you guys.

Antemortem
April 24th, 2013, 03:24 PM
We have... something to hide? I don't understand.

Honestly, what makes us any different from a regular member other than the fact our usernames are colored and we have a badge underneath our name? This rift that seems to separate us from you guys - and I use 'you guys' loosely because even that is uncomfortable for me to say - is unnerving because I don't understand it. I've personally never felt segregated from any staff member, as a member, on any forum I've ever been on and this feeling of isolation is completely new to me. I'm sure you guys have tried to explain it off-hand as a result of something else said in the history of this thread's seven pages, but really I'm digging for a reply specifically to this.

I'm genuinely confused. s:

Fairy
April 24th, 2013, 04:24 PM
I have a question.

Do you guys feel the same way about ex staff? Like you need to be on your best behavior around them too?

Zorua
April 24th, 2013, 04:30 PM
I have a question.

Do you guys feel the same way about ex staff? Like you need to be on your best behavior around them too?

Honestly, I never really felt that any ex-staff have really...segregated themselves from the community any more than staff would. o.o There's myself and Erica (although I can't speak for her) that post around just like any other member would, really. So I wouldn't really understand if people were to act different around us just because of the positions we've held in the past.

tigerBLADE
April 25th, 2013, 07:50 AM
I have a question.

Do you guys feel the same way about ex staff? Like you need to be on your best behavior around them too?

Hm... to answer this question, I guess I'll use myself as an example; I mean, even as an ex-mod, at the end of the day, I'm just an ordinary guy, you know? I would sit and chat with people... just like any other person would, so, there really isn't any need for 'proper formalities', and, it's really not necessary to treat me differently. Heck, half the time, I forget who's an ex-staff around here. @_@ I feel the same way about staff members too; even with their powers and general responsibilities, at the end of the day, they're just... people like myself and any other person here. I don't think there's any thing secretive about it. @_@;

Sir Mister
April 29th, 2013, 07:30 PM
Saw this thread, and wanted to give props to Tabor62, he's gone out of his way to make me feel welcome and to make the experience of joining a new forum (always delicate, but doubly so in one as structured as this one- not saying structure is a bad thing! Just that it makes you feel like you're walking on eggshells sometimes if like me you actively seek to avoid messing up) as painless and enjoyable as possible. As I feel it is part of the role of a moderator to encourage activity and increase the presence of their "home turf" (doing so is nothing but beneficial to the overall health of the forum), and I am Much more likely to do a great deal more in the trade forum than initially intended due in no small part to his demeanor and actions, it is worth giving the feedback that he is doing an awesome job, especially from my personal standpoint as a newcomer.

Kura
April 30th, 2013, 12:01 PM
Actually, whilst in the Member Interaction Center thread, I realized we had brought up the moderator bio thread nearly at the same time (if not before that.)

Is anything actually happening with that thread?

Honestly.... I would be a bit peeved if the MIC was put through before this.. because Pokecommunity NEEDS the mod bio thread for reasons said in the feedback thread (make mods less intimidating and approachable.) Pokecommunity doesn't NEED a AMA section. While you can refute that PC doesn't REALLY need either, I think it would benefit more from the former than the latter.. and I will be really disappointed if time and effort got put into the MIC first.

I guess it just feels like, since it was something a staff member brought up themselves, first.. it makes me as a member feel like my opinion isn't as important.. (or isn't really on the priority list) and mods just wanna see what they want to see for themselves.

Concerns have been addressed, but there was no workaround even considered. Is it something that staff want to do regardless of the suggestions? Then why even bring it to the suggestions section if we're not going to be able to have a say anyways.. and if you're just going to go through with it anyways? Keep it in the staff forum then.

Arago
May 1st, 2013, 08:25 AM
I just posted it for the staff to discuss. :)

Does anyone have any other feedback?

Kura
May 1st, 2013, 10:17 AM
Awesome, thank you! Sorry if I sound like I overreacted.. I've been a bit moodswingy lately since I felt like no one was even listening, so I am not sure how I come across sometimes, :c but no hard feelings!

Antemortem
May 2nd, 2013, 06:53 PM
Yeah, don't worry - we're getting rolling with the staff bios and trust me, it's coming faster than you might expect.

Vital
May 2nd, 2013, 07:03 PM
^What Ante said! Like, I'm already working on my autobiography. Free copies for everyone on PC. Then again, why you'd want to learn about me is beyond my comprehension.


Seriously though, the staff bio thread is an ingenious idea, that I'm rather shocked wasn't implemented earlier.

Gleam Noiyam
May 3rd, 2013, 04:45 PM
I'm sorry, I have to post my feedback. Sorry if it isn't good enough or not cut out or whatever. I've been meaning to post this for a few weeks, but I wanted to hide and not post it.

Okay, so, I feel all the staff do a fine job. They stay within the second they moderate, they do a good job moderating their sections and whatnot and I know the moderators and staff do whatever they can to help their sections stay afloat. I can tell that the staff are determined, and I can tell they love what they do, as long as we have that we can be proud of our moderators and staff here.

What I'm worried about is the amount of promotions go on around here. It seems we gain a new moderator every single month. That always worries me because this forum is big and a lot of promotions are really confusing. Sometimes bulk promotions happen here, that's not bad, but from what I think I always think that the promotions here are very random. Like, out of nowhere. I don't understand that.

But other than that I think the staff do a pretty good job here. You all work together to make this place run properly and you're all out there and that's awesome! Keep it up!

And I'm sorry if my feedback sucks.

shenanigans
May 3rd, 2013, 05:12 PM
Personally, I think it's a good thing that the staff's kept fresh with a lot of promotions. Nothing helps a forum out like a diverse staff team! And really it's very, very rare that someone's promoted with no good reason behind it. Usually it's that a section's unmodded, has inactive mods as it is, or has had a big activity jump. Given that more than half the hstaff have to agree with a promotion for it to go ahead, you can rest assured that we don't just promote people on a whim. d:

Why do you feel it's a bad thing that we have regular promotions?

donavannj
May 3rd, 2013, 05:36 PM
I think that having promotions on a regular basis is a natural thing for a larger forum. PC happens to be a larger forum, so its only natural to have promotions on a regular basis. For most staff members, PC is a just a hobby we're quite interested in!

Oryx
May 3rd, 2013, 05:38 PM
I'm sorry, I have to post my feedback. Sorry if it isn't good enough or not cut out or whatever. I've been meaning to post this for a few weeks, but I wanted to hide and not post it.

Okay, so, I feel all the staff do a fine job. They stay within the second they moderate, they do a good job moderating their sections and whatnot and I know the moderators and staff do whatever they can to help their sections stay afloat. I can tell that the staff are determined, and I can tell they love what they do, as long as we have that we can be proud of our moderators and staff here.

What I'm worried about is the amount of promotions go on around here. It seems we gain a new moderator every single month. That always worries me because this forum is big and a lot of promotions are really confusing. Sometimes bulk promotions happen here, that's not bad, but from what I think I always think that the promotions here are very random. Like, out of nowhere. I don't understand that.

But other than that I think the staff do a pretty good job here. You all work together to make this place run properly and you're all out there and that's awesome! Keep it up!

And I'm sorry if my feedback sucks.


We want you to post feedback, no need to be so hesitant :) Are you suggesting that we just allow sections to go modless for longer, or have certain days where promotions happen, or...? Most of the people that go from being a mod to not being a mod are people that resigned, not were fired, so it's kind of hard to be regular with it, haha.

Antemortem
May 3rd, 2013, 05:48 PM
There are a lot of staff, and thus there's bound to be people that quit, retire, or are promoted, which leads to their section having to be covered. These are not always at uniform times, of course, because people don't get tend to together and talk about when they plan to quit so it's more convenient to get replacements all at once, haha! As these happen, they need to be covered accordingly. Though, do you think big promotions are just more confusing, or?

Gleam Noiyam
May 4th, 2013, 07:37 AM
Well, uh, yeah. Big promotions are the most confusing thing ever, even on a big forum. Let's say you promote ten people. I don't know if I'm allowed to speak for the whole forum as a whole, but I fear that people won't be able to keep track of those ten new staff. But regular promotions sometimes just make no sense to me unless they are most certainly needed, it's not a bad thing at all in any way!

If you ask me, when a section goes modless the staff should wait a few months to decide who should moderate the section because I'm pretty sure that there would be a lot of candidates, right? But not for too long, like six months is too much. I guess the less active forums go moddless for longer, or should get a new three months afterwords. Right away in my eyes is just too fast. For more active sections a month would do I guess. I mean, for a little while the Super Moderators could try to keep a modless section in order until a new moderator candidate is picked... a month for active (or two weeks) or maybe three months for not so active, but I don't know.

droomph
May 4th, 2013, 07:44 AM
Well, uh, yeah. Big promotions are the most confusing thing ever, even on a big forum. Let's say you promote ten people. I don't know if I'm allowed to speak for the whole forum as a whole, but I fear that people won't be able to keep track of those ten new staff. But regular promotions sometimes just make no sense to me unless they are most certainly needed, it's not a bad thing at all in any way!

If you ask me, when a section goes modless the staff should wait a few months to decide who should moderate the section because I'm pretty sure that there would be a lot of candidates, right? But not for too long, like six months is too much. I guess the less active forums go moddless for longer, or should get a new three months afterwords. Right away in my eyes is just too fast. For more active sections a month would do I guess. I mean, for a little while the Super Moderators could try to keep a modless section in order until a new moderator candidate is picked... a month for active (or two weeks) or maybe three months for not so active, but I don't know.
yeahhhhh I think that's what they do…

Antemortem
May 4th, 2013, 07:46 AM
So what you're saying is that bulk promotions are alright unless it's an enormous number, but promotions right after the mod of a section is no more can also be confusing? I was just curious to pull out the meat of what you were saying. =] Also, General Entertainment went quite a long time without a moderator after Mr Cat Dog was promoted to super moderator! Captain Fabio was promoted from Video Games last year and it also still has no moderator, so there's definitely no surplus of 'promoting too soon!'

derozio
May 4th, 2013, 07:47 AM
Well, they do give it a lot of time and thought. VG has been modless for a while now. Maybe even more than 6 months. So I'd say that they only promote people when they're absolutely sure that the candidate they're going to appoint can handle the task.

Why is promoting someone right away a problem, anyway? I mean, they obviously do think it through before going ahead with the decision so giving it a 'few months'...idk. Why let a section be modless for 4-6 months if there are some really good candidates who're easily capable of handling the section already available? I don't really get your point. :(

edit; drat, you beat me to the VG thing, Dave! :<

Sheep
May 4th, 2013, 08:07 AM
I understand where you're coming from, but it does depend on the section. Some places can go modless for months while the higher staff search for the best candidate while others, like The Welcome Lounge, probably do need a moderator right away (especially when the Adoption Center was still open). A lot of factors come into play here, but choosing a new moderator for a board that might need it should, in my opinion, take priority over the fact that we might "overpromote". I guess something like a private message to a candidate saying they've been chosen but won't be modded for a certain period of time would work, but I fear in cases like that things would get confusing since said candidate might lose interest/disappear when it's time for them to be modded or new potential candidates might pop up.

Arago
May 4th, 2013, 08:24 AM
In most sections, there really aren't that many candidates. More often than not, there's a clear choice that we discuss. Sometimes there's two or three candidates, but rarely ever more.

But forums need a leader and I would rather not wait. Higher staff watch over modless forums but not in the same way that a dedicated moderator would.

Team Fail
May 4th, 2013, 08:27 AM
Captain Fabio was promoted from Video Games last year and it also still has no moderator, so there's definitely no surplus of 'promoting too soon!'

It's definitely been some time since a blue name has been appointed to that section, yeah, but I think the H-Staff have been considering someone there for a while now.

Edit:
But forums need a leader and I would rather not wait. Higher staff watch over modless forums but not in the same way that a dedicated moderator would.
I can definitely see where you're coming from there, mostly because Higher Staff have other boards/reports/etc to tend to, whereas a dedicated moderator has only that forum as their baby.

Shiny Celebi
May 4th, 2013, 08:31 AM
Ive notcied promitions do happen fairly often but I dont see it as a problem. If there are candidates that are good for a forum that needs help, why not?

Forever
May 4th, 2013, 08:48 AM
Also we have less staff than other big Pokemon forums, so it's a lot worse on other places. We actually do have a small staff overall so it's easier to get to know all of us imo.

Nathan
May 4th, 2013, 09:02 AM
The highest number of mods in a section is 3 so it's good imo. Also there has been more promotions lately but I think it's due to some retirement and forum changes, isn't it?

Arago
May 4th, 2013, 09:23 AM
I think it's really important to promote someone as soon as possible, assuming they're the right person. A forum that goes modless for too long loses activity, drive, and (most importantly) direction. A forum that loses those things are much harder to build from after those things are lost, and that responsibility will fall on the new moderator. A great example of that is Video Games. Will was promoted almost a year ago, and his responsibilities on the forum shifted to responsibilities of a higher staff member, which are a lot different than the responsibilities of a moderator. Each forum is it's own sub-community, with its own regulars and ways about communicating and interacting with eachother because of the stark difference in the forum-goers. The way people post in Forum Games is much different than the way people post in Chit Chat & Polls, and the people who post in Chit Chat & Polls post much differently than the people who post in Discussions & Debates. In each of those forums, they have their own respective leaders, and because of that, they have their own specific sub-communities. The perfect example of this is what Sydian has done to the Challenges forum. I think that forum has the greatest sense of together-ness and community on the whole forum.

If it were up to me, a new moderator (assuming there is a candidate available who we feel comfortable promoting) would be promoted right before we remove the current moderator who resigns or is forcibly removed from their position.

Maruno
May 4th, 2013, 10:43 AM
If anyone has trouble keeping track of staff, or wants to see who there is, there's the Forum Leaders page (http://www.pokecommunity.com/showgroups.php) which lists us all. It's nice to have, even if I only found out about it the other day.

shenanigans
May 4th, 2013, 10:47 AM
Also adding onto what Maruno said, we've started posting staff changes in the updates thread in Announcements now. So it should be much easier to keep track of who gets modded and promoted!

Kura
May 6th, 2013, 02:00 AM
I don't know if my opinion counts for anything here, but I don'tfeel someone should haplassly be modded just so the section could have a mod, nor should someone be modded right away because either the excitement is there at first and suddenly dies/ life things come up.. or it's like they're TRYING for mod. A good example of this is Pave Low.. now not to rain on him.. he's a good guy! Was SUUUPER active in VG, but not only that, he knew what VG needed, and he wasn't there just making discussion, he was there trying to promote events and make a change too. Then life took a hold of him and I hardly have seen him anymore for the past few months. Snap, just like that.. and I think although he has a bit more time now.. it wasn't like when he first came back here which is a shame! Going back to members being able tohost events and mods encouraging them to do so, if they felt they had more freedom to make suggestions (which is happening now, thankfully, thanks to threads like this..) then we can see who really wants to make a section thrive and who is really going to do well as a moderator in that section- not because we need someone to make or close threads- but someone who is TRULY passionate about it. If it takes a little longer to wait around for then.. then..I rather wait.
Your argument isn't really valid because Other Tabletop Games had a mod but the section still died on us. So did the anime forum that got merged into G E. Does G.E even have a mod or does mr.catdog mostly oversee it?

So no for modding someone in VG just for the sake of modding. Yes there are a few regulars there but there needs to be some drive, too. Especially since I remember how Captain Fabio was so adamant when he was a regular mod.. we need someone who has that same passion.

I tl;dr digress...
Asfor the announcement thing being added... COOOLL! Ithink it is a nice addition and it is great to see updates! Iam happy to see this added.


edit:if we were gonna mod someone based on activity alone.. then I probably might even be modded because Other Chat and Polls have been my home for ages.. but there are too many factors to think about, like how I would handle a situation. Being active or even wanting to see change isn't the only thing to think about. Most people would think I would be to brash or harsh- which is probably right because I can throw a fit at times/ want things to go my way. And whilst that behaviour would probably be dimmed down if I ever was a mod due to professionalism the point is, because I am a member now, I act how I want because what's important to me isn't looking good for others. I'm not dimming it down because that's not my goal, so I wont be mod, and that's fine with me. (I work full time and I like to have a choice to come here instead of an obligation) When someone's a mod, that changes. Am I suitable for that role? Maybe not because of those reasons. Point is.. we need to find someone suitable for that role from the get-go.. or someone who genuinely changed and NOT changed for the goal to be a mod. Dipu was a good choice because he knows what the section needed, he's active, fair, approachable, and he wants to see change for the better there. Someone who takes others into consideration. That is what we need for modless sections. Are there other people in the same sort of situation as me? Probably. Do I want to see them modded for being modded's sake? Actually.. no. But we shouldn't discourage regular members from wanting to bump activity even if they're not "mod material." I believe you shouldn't have to be a mod to have your voice heard and make a change. I'm happy being a member for that reason (yesand a very loud one at that but heck, I'm Italian,you're gonna hear my voice from a mile away so "whatcha' gonna doabaoutit!"[/italian accent.]
TL;DR.. don't want a mod for activity's sake.. they need to be able to think smartly for the good of the communityand the individuals that approach them.

Captain Fabio
May 6th, 2013, 02:05 AM
Can I just say, my policy is if someone isn't fit for the role of Moderator, they don't get my vote. In my opinion, there is no point giving someone a position for the sake of filling the empty gap.

It has been discussed in HQ and doesn't really need any more discussion at this current moment in time, if I am honest.

I am not going to end the conversation, because that is harsh, but that is my opinion on the matter, as I am the ex-moderator of Video Games.

Krookodile777
May 6th, 2013, 03:11 AM
My feedback is : RELAX

You guys take this way too seriously. I've had a few posts deleted, and a few threads locked. When there's technically nothing wrong with any of them.

Nitpicking which section things are in, and nitpicking how long posts are, is just stupid. I dislike overly serious moderators

I don't believe anything should ever be locked or deleted unless it contains offensive content.

curiousnathan
May 6th, 2013, 04:26 AM
My feedback is : RELAX

You guys take this way too seriously. I've had a few posts deleted, and a few threads locked. When there's technically nothing wrong with any of them.

Nitpicking which section things are in, and nitpicking how long posts are, is just stupid. I dislike overly serious moderators

I don't believe anything should ever be locked or deleted unless it contains offensive content.

I think that's understandable. But what I also think perhaps others should get to know is that sometimes, rules are put in place for a reason. Locking and moving off-topic posts and threads as well as deleting short (and generally lack-luster) posts is often necessary to upkeep a quality discussion that almost everyone will enjoy.

Major Ziggs
May 6th, 2013, 05:03 AM
My feedback is : RELAX

You guys take this way too seriously. I've had a few posts deleted, and a few threads locked. When there's technically nothing wrong with any of them.

Nitpicking which section things are in, and nitpicking how long posts are, is just stupid. I dislike overly serious moderators

I don't believe anything should ever be locked or deleted unless it contains offensive content.
If you have specific examples or want to appeal against a lock/deletion then send a private message to the moderator that performed the action and they'll give you a more detailed reason of why the action was taken, and you'll have your opportunity to present your reasons for undoing said action. If you're truly not happy with the staff member's decision and you believe they'e not doing their job properly, that's when you private message a member of higher staff with the case and they'll once again explain the situation in more detail and provide a final decision.

Ultimately if you think that people are deleting too many of your posts/locking too many of your threads, perhaps it's worth taking a look at what you're actually posting before blaming the community for being too strict when 99% of other members get by perfectly fine?

I do agree that some moderators have been overly strict with their judgements in the past, but usually these have either been undone or realised and apologised for so I think if you just try talking to the staff members involved you'll have a better time here :)

Troye
May 6th, 2013, 06:20 PM
I just want to go ahead and applaud Shivi on his moderating of X/Y. We all know he is a seasoned veteran, but even so, a section that is for the newest Pokémon game being released tends to take a lot of work. There are always off-topic posts, duplicates, spam, and other random stuff that needs to take care of, and he's always on top of it. Having to keep track of the Thread Index is also a giant pain in the butt (I'd imagine at least, since it has to be udpated constantly), and he is doing a fantastic job. He's also incredibly friendly and approachable, which I find to be an important quality.

So yeah, just wanted to throw a random positive message into the mix!

Mariah Carey
May 14th, 2013, 09:36 PM
A little heads up about the massive forum change would have been appreciated!

Jak
May 14th, 2013, 09:42 PM
Agreeing with Chris here. You moved 4th Gen into GPGD without telling me back in February. That's lovely and dandy now I'm fine, but it really pissed me off that you didn't tell me. And now there's this mess. Please tell me you at least told those mods...even letting the members know would have been nice. Six forums in GPGD does not look cute, and seven in Off-Topic is just...

http://ris.fashion.telegraph.co.uk/RichImageService.svc/imagecontent/1/TMG10046758/m/kimk_2558400a.jpg

tl;dr Please at least let us know when these things are going to happen.

Forever
May 14th, 2013, 09:44 PM
hm makes sense to put them all together. gj hstaff.

Belldandy
May 14th, 2013, 09:47 PM
Holy beans o_0 Off-Topic looks so cluttered now! I have all categories other than Official Forums and Off-Topic collapsed 99% of the time because I never frequent the other boards (sometimes I open back up for X&Y if new stuff comes out) because there's too many boards.

Now there's too many boards in Off-Topic. Ergh.

Sydian said it right with Kardashian's granny couch dress. The couch wore it best!

Ausaudriel
May 14th, 2013, 09:51 PM
Agreeing with Chris here. You moved 4th Gen into GPGD without telling me back in February. That's lovely and dandy now I'm fine, but it really pissed me off that you didn't tell me. And now there's this mess. Please tell me you at least told those mods...even letting the members know would have been nice. Six forums in GPGD does not look cute, and seven in Off-Topic is just..

tl;dr Please at least let us know when these things are going to happen.

Nobody was informed outside hstaff and I don't think it was particularly necessary. I'm fine with giving people a "heads up" to a degree but there comes a point where it's excessive, so I would appreciate it if you'd bend a little when we bend. I'm not going to fill out a form every time I want to take a breath.

That said, I realize the category doesn't look great as it is and I appreciate that part of the feedback. :( But it makes more sense. The Entertainment category was just silly, it barely described the boards in it and they belong more sensibly all together.

Jak
May 14th, 2013, 09:54 PM
I'm not asking for hstaff to tell us literally everything, but a major forum change is something I feel we should know about. If not the members, at least the mods. After my experience with that a few months ago, I hope you at least told the mods of those forums.

Surely there could have been another way than to make a mega forum though? A renaming of the Entertainment category? Rewording the description? There had to be something.

Edit: Sigh. I don't want to post again, so Belldandy, I just want to say that scrolling is not that difficult.

Belldandy
May 14th, 2013, 09:54 PM
But it's so fugly :( and IMO it doesn't make much sense like this either!

Not to mention, I have to pretty much scroll to get through those boards because there are too many. I only go into like, four or five boards: Member's Lounge, Q&F, CC&P, D&D and XY.

Sooo many boards @_@ and I think Entertainment described them perfectly.

- Video Games
- Internet & Technology
- General Entertainment

All scream Entertainment :( they're all forms of Entertainment (or grant access to Entertainment). They fit where they were. This is unfortunate.

Mariah Carey
May 14th, 2013, 09:56 PM
I hardly see how it's excessive considering an entire forum category just got deleted, but whatever.

GenuineCorruption
May 21st, 2013, 04:18 PM
Hello.

I know that I am not around here much, but I do wish to say my piece if I may.

My friend Pokemonmasteraaron and I are both visually impaired. Though we are both reasonable and understand that rules exist for a reason, we feel we have been mistreated by select staff.

It started in January when he posted this thread:

http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=295007 (http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=295007)
As you can see, Sydian closed this within minutes of its creation.

When Pokemonmasteraaron appealed this via PM, she explained that it broke an unwritten rule. I have never seen such a statement of general etiquette anywhere on the internet where it is frowned upon to make a request for assistance on a forum and see if anyone is interested, so at this point I got involved myself. I carefully read the community rules and guidelines as well as the rules for the hoen section. The above thread didn’t break any of them so I PM'd Sydian to ask what this was all about.

She ignored my PMs and so I posted this thread:

http://www.pokecommunity.com/archive/index.php/t-295068.html (http://www.pokecommunity.com/archive/index.php/t-295068.html)

The topic was closed and we were asked to discuss the issue privately, which we then further attempted to do.

Later, I received an infraction supposedly for stalking and causing emotional distress. Though I understand how this conclusion came to be (I had sent several PMS over the course of about a week), someone who cannot handle adult-to-adult disagreements and is that uncomfortable when being wrong is simply not moderator material. Since the infraction was issued by Patchisou Yutohr (http://www.pokecommunity.com/member.php?u=86968)u, I proceeded to take it up withhim, asking that he quote the site rule which PMA's post broke. As he could not do so, he overturned the infraction though this was the best I could get. He then promised to investigate the issue and then promptly stopped communicating with me. When TOPM wrote back two months later for an update he simply stated that it was Sydian's decision to lock the topic.

This past weekend he wrote a letter to the webmaster via the contact us link which was also disregarded.

Though I have no solid evidence to prove discrimination in this case, the circumstantial evidence sure does. Even if her decision to close that thread had nothing to do with the fact that we are visually impaired, it definitely was nothing to do with forum rules either as there are none that cover the issue in question. The unwritten rule argument is ambiguous and suggests discrimination as it simply doesn't exist on the internet or in real life. The argument that it wouldn't generate enough discussion has no evidence to back it up since the type of thread it was is unprecedented. Even so, to say it won't generate discussion and then lock it down so to make sure it can't is illogical. I have posted similar threads in other communities which continued to spark discussion for over a year.
If the issue of topics which don't spark is a server space issue (understandable), a solution might be to prune threads which got fewer than X posts and have been dead for X days (most forum platforms have built-in functionality to accomplish this and I am sure VBulletin is no exception).

I suppose that what I am trying to say is that it is unfair for topics to be closed based on the forum leader's personal opinion on the issue.

I won't get into this but I also posted a save hacking thread in the emulation section which was closed.

These are all examples of topics closed for things which don't break a rule. If rom hacking is permitted but save hacking is not, then let that be known via the forum rules. If it is not appropriate to come on and ask for map-related assistance with the game (where to go, how to get there) then let that be known as well.

We both continue to look forward to a fare resolution to this problem. To be told that a *perfectly on-topic and rule compliant* thread (Gen3 posted in Gen3forums) is simply not welcome on the site is cold and makes people feel unwelcome.
What we both hope to get from this is to have the thread moved to a location where it may be permitted to exist and reopened, or to be permitted to repost it elsewhere.
Thanks,

GenuineCorruption.

Cordelia
May 21st, 2013, 04:28 PM
You do realize that you are obsessing over this, right? Syd closed a thread using her discretion as a moderator. Asking someone to make you a walkthrough is not what the Advance Generation Gaming forum is for. You could ask people in VM or PM, but not in a forum. The forum is built for discussion and his thread was just asking for someone to do something for him.

It's been over four months and until recently, your friend seemed to be fine with it. You, on the other hand, have on and off obsessed over this for months. Personally, I think you should let it go. She was not being malicious with her closure and has only reacted to your provocations and stalking.

GenuineCorruption
May 21st, 2013, 04:50 PM
Hello,
My obsessing over it may be true. However, I stand for what is right, and being able to post a generation three pokemon game related topic in a generation three pokemon forum regardless of life circumstances is what is right.
I am sure the community would rather have a forum topic about it than having every single user PM'd. If this is the case, then by all means document it ("Making posts requesting assistance with the main game is not permitted in the forums and is to be reserved for private messaging").
My friend and I have been busy with school, we haven't had time to continue. We have however continued discussion of what we should do next.
We are by no means "fine" with it, we were just waiting for a break from real life that would be long enough to get involved with it again.
Besides, what did the community have to gain from having it closed? Nothing? (which suggests it was more of a personal issue). Since he didn't break any rules, his thread being allowed to exist (and hopefully generate some discussion, if nothing more than just cureous questions) caused harm to nobody.
So why couldn't it have just been left alone, and if it got out of hand or caused any other problems (which it wouldn't have), then be dealt with as it was?

Cordelia
May 21st, 2013, 05:37 PM
We just simply don't allow threads asking for such specific help. If someone asked for a Pokemon Black walkthrough in the 5th generation forum I'm sure it'd be locked. Same thing with any of the other generation forums. We are not discriminating against you or your friend in any way, shape or form. It just doesn't really fit as a topic, that's all. I'm sorry, but that's just it. :( It plain does not fit.

Jak
May 21st, 2013, 05:49 PM
She ignored my PMs and so I posted this thread:

Let me tell you something about this right now, even though I'm sure you won't understand.

You were bothering me. I didn't even want to get on this forum because you were seriously creeping me out and bothering me. I felt like I was in a corner and I felt like I was being harassed by you. You should never in any way, shape, or form make someone feel so uncomfortable for doing an action that you make them not even want to sign on this forum, especially when it's someone that has things to do here. You just don't.

I stand by why I closed that thread. You may stand up for what is right, and that's fine. I definitely understand. But when it was something that happened so long ago and you come back in late May still harping over it, you honestly need to get over it. I gave Aaron another alternative to his thread that I locked. It doesn't and will never belong in any of my forums and that's final. I am not changing my mind.

And let me tell you another thing. I do not discriminate against anyone for anything, especially when it comes to impairments and disabilities. I do not care if you're black, white, blue, blind, autistic, schizophrenic, or a rabbit. I don't care. I treated Aaron's thread how I would treat anyone's thread had they posted a topic asking for someone to create them a walkthrough.

I don't care how harsh this sounds, and I'm normally not like this to members, but really. If you care so much about this thread being locked, and it was months ago I might add, you should reconsider your priorities. You care this much about something that happened on a Pokemon forum? You probably need to take a break from the internet. And clearly the time you spent away from PC since this incident wasn't long enough. But you're debating over something I have explained before, many times, and even gave alternative solutions for. So let me repeat them:

1. I locked his thread because I don't allow people to ask for walkthroughs to be made for them.
2. I told Aaron he could contact Captain Fabio about posting a thread for it in the Let's Plays and Walkthroughs subforum in Video Games. Don't go pestering him about it like you did with me, by the way. I won't stand for you messing with my friends. Feel free to talk to him politely about it though.
3. I stand by my decision. I am not changing it. No one else is changing it. It is final. And if you really don't like it, you can leave.

This sounds harsh I'm sure, but honestly, I am really tired of this. It's gone on for too long and I'm tired of having to explain my reasons over and over to you.

pokemonmasteraaron
May 21st, 2013, 06:09 PM
I will just step in here to say this.
Everybody here keeps talking about asking for a walkthrough being disallowed.
Well for one thing, walkthrough isn't even the best term to use, although that is the term I used in the thread.
I retrospect, it was a bad choice of words, as it is quite different.
I perfectly understand asking for a walkthrough as being against the rules, even if it isn't explicitly said, and had this been my forum I would have also close the thread in question.
This is a much different case. I have beaten Pokémon Emerald, however I would like to complete it again, doing certain challenges or 386 hacks or whatever. I was simply asking for the community to engage in a project which would help to make Pokémon playable for each and every person.
I consider myself to be on good terms with Sydian after messaging her after the thread was closed, even though I disaggree with her.
I senceerly wish that things could have worked out differently. If this site won't allow this harmless, and indeed quite helpful project I am willing to post my request elsewhere.
Best regards:
Aaron

derozio
May 21st, 2013, 06:10 PM
I honestly don't understand what part of a walkthrough request makes it discussion worthy. Leave a year or two, I fail to see how it'd garner discussion for even a period of a few weeks. ;(

And syd definitely doesn't have anything against personal you or your friend. She's just doing her job.

Edit; wow, slow internet sucks. Ninja'd by so many people. :<

Jak
May 21st, 2013, 06:16 PM
I will just step in here to say this.
Everybody here keeps talking about asking for a walkthrough being disallowed.
Well for one thing, walkthrough isn't even the best term to use, although that is the term I used in the thread.
I retrospect, it was a bad choice of words, as it is quite different.
I perfectly understand asking for a walkthrough as being against the rules, even if it isn't explicitly said, and had this been my forum I would have also close the thread in question.
This is a much different case. I have beaten Pokémon Emerald, however I would like to complete it again, doing certain challenges or 386 hacks or whatever. I was simply asking for the community to engage in a project which would help to make Pokémon playable for each and every person.
I consider myself to be on good terms with Sydian after messaging her after the thread was closed, even though I disaggree with her.
I senceerly wish that things could have worked out differently. If this site won't allow this harmless, and indeed quite helpful project I am willing to post my request elsewhere.
Best regards:
Aaron

Thank you, Aaron. I felt like we were on good terms as well, which is why I was surprised to see this come up again. Again, I still suggest asking Captain Fabio about perhaps having that in the Let's Play/Walkthrough subforum. Even though you reworded your purpose, it still wouldn't go in Advance Generation, or any of my forums. It sounds more like a certain walkthrough that would have to be created, or some different coding in the games which would also not be my territory. So there's that. Believe me, I don't like having to be the big bad guy and stand in the way of something like that. I think that'd be an amazing project to take on, but it doesn't belong in my sections, and like Derozio said, I was just doing my job. And although we disagree, I'm happy that we still respect each other over the matter, even if it got fuzzy. My problem never really was with you to begin with anyway, so just know that. :)

GenuineCorruption
May 21st, 2013, 06:30 PM
Hello,
For one, the term "Walkthrough" is not accurate; he was simply asking for some information about the map so he could pass a few areas which he cannot already pass. He is simply asking for someone, if willing, to take the time to provide him with information that other people automatically take for granted.
He is not simply asking for "walkthroughs" instead of looking them up online, in fact a regular "walkthrough" is often enough for most in-game areas excluding some complicated portions.
Anyway, on to what really matters. A unique topic was posted, and removed. You say it "doesn't fit", but you haven't made that official by documenting it. So I feel you owe us an explaination, at the very least. Why do you have an issue with this.
As well, if anyone thinks my case is isolated, take a meander through this:
http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=277611 (http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=277611)
This thread is unnecessary and mean. So somebody proposes an idea for a challenge, it is private until Sydian approves it, however if she doesn't it's okay to publically humiliate the poster for such things as gramatical errors?
You have no idea what that person's situation is. They could have a learning disability. They could be from another country where english is not spoken. Many foreigners struggle with english everyday so they can interact on the internet. Or, they could just be bad spellers and didn't bother to proofread before they posted. The fact is you don't know. If you are bothered by my acts of advocacy, then maybe you should stop for a moment to think about how much you can bother people by being so condescending and unjustly vicious to those who you feel you aut to be greater than.
I am sorry if I myself come across as condescending, however if you are that bothered by someone calling you to task on having abused your power so to commit a cruel act against someone, then perhaps you shouldn't abuse your power to commit a cruel act against someone and then you don't have to worry about feeling that way.
If you are that passionate about not allowing in-game help requests on the site, then please, the least you could do is make that an official, written rule. Then you can close threads for it because the poster was responsible for reading those before posting.
Until then, I'll stand my ground as strongly as you will. You saw his post, and like the unapproved challenges thread, for whatever reason you took it upon yourself to steal his thunder and make him feel inferior.

Jak
May 21st, 2013, 06:44 PM
Hello,
For one, the term "Walkthrough" is not accurate; he was simply asking for some information about the map so he could pass a few areas which he cannot already pass. He is simply asking for someone, if willing, to take the time to provide him with information that other people automatically take for granted.
He is not simply asking for "walkthroughs" instead of looking them up online, in fact a regular "walkthrough" is often enough for most in-game areas excluding some complicated portions.

He already explained what he meant, and even with the new explanation, it doesn't fit there. Sorry. Look, I didn't choose the forums I moderate. But I take care of my forums and I do know what doesn't belong, and that thread didn't belong. So your explanation at this point is moot.

Anyway, on to what really matters. A unique topic was posted, and removed. You say it "doesn't fit", but you haven't made that official by documenting it. So I feel you owe us an explaination, at the very least. Why do you have an issue with this. This thread is unnecessary and mean. So somebody proposes an idea for a challenge, it is private until Sydian approves it, however if she doesn't it's okay to publically humiliate the poster for such things as gramatical errors?

I literally JUST explained my reasons to you in my last post, and it was not the first time I pointed it out to you. And you linking to Unapproved Challenges is completely and utterly irrelevant. Aaron never posted in there. You didn't either. I don't want you to, for that matter. That thread is so that people know why their thread is not approved. You don't like it? Don't post in there. You clearly cannot handle someone disagreeing with you or arguing with you. It's very well demonstrated here. But that thread has nothing to do with this. Neither does that forum.

You have no idea what that person's situation is. They could have a learning disability. They could be from another country where english is not spoken. Many foreigners struggle with english everyday so they can interact on the internet. Or, they could just be bad spellers and didn't bother to proofread before they posted. The fact is you don't know. If you are bothered by my acts of advocacy, then maybe you should stop for a moment to think about how much you can bother people by being so condescending and unjustly vicious to those who you feel you aut to be greater than.

Look who you're telling. I have social anxiety. I have a high temper. I have scoliosis. Waa waa waa. I know that people are fighting battles in the real world, but I am too. Don't sit here and tell me what's right and what's wrong. You're getting so far off this topic, it's insane. You need to take your own advice. I have anxiety and nervousness problems and the way you treated me definitely did not follow your own advice in the "you don't know what their life is like" so please. Kindly take your advice and shove it in your own face. Practice what you preach before you come at me with it.

I am sorry if I myself come across as condescending, however if you are that bothered by someone calling you to task on having abused your power so to commit a cruel act against someone, then perhaps you shouldn't abuse your power to commit a cruel act against someone and then you don't have to worry about feeling that way.

Locking a thread on a Pokemon forum is NOT a cruel act. If you think this, you need to get off the internet.

If you are that passionate about not allowing in-game help requests on the site, then please, the least you could do is make that an official, written rule. Then you can close threads for it because the poster was responsible for reading those before posting.
Until then, I'll stand my ground as strongly as you will. You saw his post, and like the unapproved challenges thread, for whatever reason you took it upon yourself to steal his thunder and make him feel inferior.

You are so wrong on so many levels. It doesn't belong in my forum. It doesn't belong in my forum. It doesn't belong in my forum. Please get off this topic. It's over. I'm not changing it. I have given Aaron other options. Did you even read my last post? You clearly didn't.

I'm so done with you beyond belief. The fact you told me that I need to know that people have struggles in person...I am very aware. I'm a special education major. I have my own problems. I know other people with problems. Take your own advice. Please. I'm so tired of this mess.

Major Ziggs
May 21st, 2013, 06:57 PM
As well, if anyone thinks my case is isolated, take a meander through this:
http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=277611 (http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=277611)
This thread is unnecessary and mean. So somebody proposes an idea for a challenge, it is private until Sydian approves it, however if she doesn't it's okay to publically humiliate the poster for such things as gramatical errors?
You have no idea what that person's situation is. They could have a learning disability. They could be from another country where english is not spoken. Many foreigners struggle with english everyday so they can interact on the internet. Or, they could just be bad spellers and didn't bother to proofread before they posted. The fact is you don't know. If you are bothered by my acts of advocacy, then maybe you should stop for a moment to think about how much you can bother people by being so condescending and unjustly vicious to those who you feel you aut to be greater than.
I am sorry if I myself come across as condescending, however if you are that bothered by someone calling you to task on having abused your power so to commit a cruel act against someone, then perhaps you shouldn't abuse your power to commit a cruel act against someone and then you don't have to worry about feeling that way.
If you are that passionate about not allowing in-game help requests on the site, then please, the least you could do is make that an official, written rule. Then you can close threads for it because the poster was responsible for reading those before posting.
Until then, I'll stand my ground as strongly as you will. You saw his post, and like the unapproved challenges thread, for whatever reason you took it upon yourself to steal his thunder and make him feel inferior.
Apologies as this case obviously has nothing to do with me, but I'd just like to point out that this kind of thread approval happens all throughout the forum. In the fan club sections, if a thread is submitted that isn't a high enough standard it will be revoked, just as it will in the ROM Hacking section or Game Development Section or Online Games section - only one thread can exist for each challenge, club, hack, what have you, so the threads made have to be of an appropriate standard.

That's not to say that people with learning/writing disabilities or any other kind of impairment are being picked on or singled out or are being stopped from creating threads; it just means that if someone needs help making a thread of the appropriate standard then they can ask for help and we'll gladly assist. If you can't speak fluent English and need help on your grammar then so be it, just ask for help and it'll be given. If you have dyslexia and can't spell as a result, so be it, just ask someone to proof read for you. We're the PokéCommunity for a reason - we'd never single out an individual member for doing something wrong, only point out that the thread/post/action isn't appropriate for whatever reason and help them change this. It's an incredibly unfair statement to say that because Sydian notifies people that their challenges haven't been accepted, that means she's singling them out - after reading through your posts it looks like you're just looking for any reason for people to single you out as your reasons are, sorry to say it, verging on ludacris, and I would be offended in Sydian's position to be told that doing her job means she's discriminating.

I can see why you may feel singled out and it's understandable to a small degree, but I think you just need to realise that we're here to help you, not hold you back. If you follow our rules and work with us, we'll work with you in return and help you post the discussions that are important to you in the right sections and the correct formats. :)

(This might seem weird coming from a random guy but I used to moderate Pokémon Clubs with a very similar thread approval system and this is talking from experience)

Belldandy
May 21st, 2013, 07:12 PM
From my experience, Syd has always been helpful and responsible in her forums. She wouldn't just close something for the sake of it; there had to be a reason, and if that reason is because it didn't belong, then that's that. Any other information about the poster "defendant" him or herself is irrelevant. If you were jewish, it'd have been closed. If you were homosexual, it'd have been closed. It sure as Hell doesn't mean Syd is homophobic or anti-Simitic; or in this case, prejudice or discriminatory against the visually impaired.

Sorry if you felt that way and all, but it seems that a simple, understandable action by Syd is being taken way too personally. There's no reason to have a grudge against Syd, esp. because the person who's really the "victim" here has already forgiven and forgot i.e. Aaron.

Plus, as more people post and respond, the whole matter seems less like feedback and more like unjustified complaining / hating on your part. Might wanna quit while you're ahead, since even basic members are siding with Syd's decision at this point.

Take the advice. YouTube videos that would help you or use Google to search. Ask Fabio if such a request is OK for the Walkthrough board. There are many alternatives already suggested that ought to suit your needs / problem regarding the walkthrough / help / sidequest-hunting itself.

GenuineCorruption
May 21st, 2013, 07:50 PM
Apologies as this case obviously has nothing to do with me, but I'd just like to point out that this kind of thread approval happens all throughout the forum. In the fan club sections, if a thread is submitted that isn't a high enough standard it will be revoked, just as it will in the ROM Hacking section or Game Development Section or Online Games section - only one thread can exist for each challenge, club, hack, what have you, so the threads made have to be of an appropriate standard.

That's not to say that people with learning/writing disabilities or any other kind of impairment are being picked on or singled out or are being stopped from creating threads; it just means that if someone needs help making a thread of the appropriate standard then they can ask for help and we'll gladly assist. If you can't speak fluent English and need help on your grammar then so be it, just ask for help and it'll be given. If you have dyslexia and can't spell as a result, so be it, just ask someone to proof read for you. We're the PokéCommunity for a reason - we'd never single out an individual member for doing something wrong, only point out that the thread/post/action isn't appropriate for whatever reason and help them change this. It's an incredibly unfair statement to say that because Sydian notifies people that their challenges haven't been accepted, that means she's singling them out - after reading through your posts it looks like you're just looking for any reason for people to single you out as your reasons are, sorry to say it, verging on ludacris, and I would be offended in Sydian's position to be told that doing her job means she's discriminating.

I can see why you may feel singled out and it's understandable to a small degree, but I think you just need to realise that we're here to help you, not hold you back. If you follow our rules and work with us, we'll work with you in return and help you post the discussions that are important to you in the right sections and the correct formats. :)

(This might seem weird coming from a random guy but I used to moderate Pokémon Clubs with a very similar thread approval system and this is talking from experience)

Hello,
I fully understand why challenges, hacks, roleplays etc have to go through an approval process, and why many will not pass scrutany; however, there's a big difference between rejecting something/someone's idea and outright ridiculing them for something they may or may not be able to help.
If I were in that position I'd say, for example:
"(Insert user's name here), I'm sorry but your challenge has been disapproved. Please private message if you seek further information."
And then, if they PM, then I would explain that the post contained a number of spelling and grammar errors, and that is why it was rejected. This is accomplishing the same thing while preserving someone's dignity.
Or even, you could say "Your challenge was disapproved due to grammatical errors; as well we already have one that is similar." This approach even publically explains the problem, while still not putting people down.
If you read through some of those posts on unapproved challenges, the way some of them are worded... you've got to admit... is a bit unnecessarily mean at times.
So is coming up with a new unwritten rule on the fly to justify smothering something that you don't personally agree with.
If you want a rule? write it. Then there's no subjectivity. Of course in this case having a rule like that may drive newcomers away, otherwise I see no reason why they haven't already done so.

Oryx
May 21st, 2013, 07:58 PM
GC, you're not in a position to dictate what a moderator should or should not do with her forum, or how she should moderate it. I apologize if you were ever given this impression.

Anna
May 21st, 2013, 08:02 PM
To be honest, your concern over Unapproved Challenges is completely irrelevant. You do not seem to be active in Challenges. It very much seems as if you are trying to just make Sydian look bad. I have looked through the thread in question and notice two things: One, that none of the responses are malicious and most are actually helpful. Two, that you as a viewer of the thread are not able to see the proposed challenges. You do not know what has been submitted, how many times Sydian has seen essentially the same thing, or the details of anything. All you see is Sydian's notice and advice, and that is not a lot to go on. You can not see the full picture. I personally would refrain from commenting unless I did.

derozio
May 21st, 2013, 08:04 PM
How is this relevant to you and your friend's problem, though? I can't help but wonder if its YOU who holds a personal grudge against syd at this point.

As for it not being written in the rules - there's something called common sense. If a thread does not hold the potential to spark a discussion, it gets locked. Simple as that. We do not need to have a seperate rule for the bazgdggsaillion kinds of threads that can be created which do not have enough potential to spark a discussion. I hope you understand.

The thread has been derailed quite a bit by you, by the way. It is meant to get feedback; not to have members attack staff. So please stop. If you feel the need to still press on with the issue, contact an administrator. Or some other hstaff that you have not approached yet. There's no use arguing over this matter over here because it's plain obvious that no viable resolution is visible at this point.

GenuineCorruption
May 21st, 2013, 08:19 PM
GC, you're not in a position to dictate what a moderator should or should not do with her forum, or how she should moderate it. I apologize if you were ever given this impression.
Not trying to dictate anything over here. The OP asked for honest feedback. Sorry if mine wasn't what was hoped for. I took the offerred chance to post honest feedback without having to walk on egg shells or candy coat anything.
That's what was offerred.
Anyway, the last post states that this is not what is desired and so I will abide by it; I only hope for a chance to have reasonable private message or email communication with whoever it is who is responsible for paying this site's server bill.
I just want to know where we could have posted a thread about getting through the storyline where it wouldn't have stepped on anybody elses toes. That's all I want.

Arago
May 21st, 2013, 08:26 PM
GenuineCorruption, I'm going to ask you nicely to just drop it.

You shouldn't even have any word in it at all. Certainly you're entitled to your opinion, but you're digging way too far in a matter that doesn't concern you. The thread lock is between your friend, and Sydian, just as your infraction is between yoü and I. This happened five months ago, you really need to let this go.

I don't know who this "we" is. This is involving Aaron's thread, not yours. I'm sure he appreciates you being his spokesperson, but he's a big boy and can take care of this himself. He's certainly a lot more calm, rational, and understanding than you and, in turn, much more pleasant to work with.

Mariah Carey
May 21st, 2013, 11:26 PM
Sydian has on many occasions referred to the sections she is modding as "her" forums, and responded as if offended or at least irritated as soon as there is talk of changes to them. Like Ausadriel says, the H-staff shouldn't have to let the mods know every time they breath, but while I see why a mod would want to be notified about planned changes to the forums they mod, they should not be allowed to oppose them on the basis of some sort of personal comfort. It has seemed to me, for long actually, that Sydian is overprotective and arrogant about "her" forums. I've been quiet for long, but I would like to now - hopefully without making you too angry :,( - ask Sydian to reconsider her view on her job here. Because I've felt not a little bit intimidated before and it seems more have too.


She's been moderating those forums for god knows how long (four years? a bit less?) so I think at this point of time she's earned the bloody right to be overprotective about her forums. I don't see anything wrong with her being overprotective about them, and if she happens to be 'arrogant' about them, then it's because people have come in and blatantly disrupted the atmosphere she has put countless hours into maintaining.
This is probably one of the most insulting posts I have ever read and I think you need to reconsider some things, such as actually knowing what she is like before you make such critical judgements of her.

Edit: Furthermore, is this the Sydian Feedback Thread? No. Don't kick her while she's down.

adventure
May 21st, 2013, 11:34 PM
She's been moderating those forums for god knows how long (four years? a bit less?) so I think at this point of time she's earned the bloody right to be overprotective about her forums. I don't see anything wrong with her being overprotective about them, and if she happens to be 'arrogant' about them, then it's because people have come in and blatantly disrupted the atmosphere she has put countless hours into maintaining.
This is probably one of the most insulting posts I have ever read and I think you need to reconsider some things, such as actually knowing what she is like before you make such critical judgements of her.

Like I said, I don't mean no hate and I am sorry if it came across as insulting. I realize that she has been modding the forum for years but I still don't think there is a "bloody right" and that arrogance is in place. Arrogance might be the word I used, but maybe it won't seem that way if you know her better. But most of the people on this forum don't know her better and might see it my way. She is not doing her job poorly, that was not what I said. I guess I should have toned down the post a little more :x What I meant was that I would be happy if she just kept in mind what I had noticed :)

EDIT: furthermore, I do believe I followed the rules stated in the first post of this thread and I would like if you did too :/


I'll re-iterate here that, in this thread, you may give feedback for an individual staff member up to and including the administrators. Indeed, here, and here alone, it's encouraged. This is the only thread in which you may do this at present.
No personal gripes with staff, please. "Razor Leaf gave me an infraction once and I didn't like it at all" is not constructive criticism. As always, this is a personal matter to be discussed individually with the staff member in question, either via PM or with a higher staff member. Do not bring up things like this here as that is not at all what this thread is intended to be about.
No rants. We want constructive criticism only. That means that we don't want you to use this thread as an opportunity to moan about how much you hate us all and how terrible we are and etc. We want problems or suggestions highlighted and we want to work with you to solve or implement them. We don't want walls of text about how bad we are, because that solves absolutely nothing.
Let people have their own opinions. We want opinions representative of the memberbase here, not discussions about whether or not x is a problem or if y is doing their job properly. That's for the staff to discuss between themselves, and with the member(s) presenting the issue. Not for other members to jump in and disagree with.
We want honest opinions of all levels of staff and, as long as the opinions are presented properly, even if we don't like what we hear we won't be judging you or punishing you for voicing your opinions. You will not be infracted, ranted at, etc. for giving a proper and honest opinion. If you feel a staff member is attacking you for your opinion in this thread then please PM me or another higher staff member and we'll sort it out.


I don't believe I have kicked anyone, just provided what I have been thinking about for a while in hopes that things could be more open.

Captain Fabio
May 21st, 2013, 11:40 PM
Ok, thank you everyone for your feedback on the subject. I think tensions are still a little high, so thank you for your input and, if possible, let's swiftly move on from this subject.

If anyone really wants to add to what has been said about the above subject, you are welcome to contact me directly and we can discuss it in detail.

I understand this thread can be used for feedback on an individual, but Sydian has been spoken about for nearly a page and it isn't nice to be put on display like this!

Hope everyone understands and thank you once again! :3

Spinosaurus
May 22nd, 2013, 03:49 AM
This doesn't really regard Sydian or the current case at hand, but do pardon me for the intrusion. But I felt the need to reply to this particular post, because this mind of thinking has always been something that bothered me in this forum.
I honestly don't understand what part of a walkthrough request makes it discussion worthy. Leave a year or two, I fail to see how it'd garner discussion for even a period of a few weeks. ;(

You know, PC has always been shy about threads that seem out of the ordinary. Why is that? Looking at the thread in question, it seems perfectly harmless. I am not going to question Sydian's authority, but there was no reason to lock it. The points of rules is to prevent any heat or tensity in the forum, or completely pointless things, but it's impossible to predict that the thread in question was going to cause any of that.

What I am trying to say is, it seems the reason to lock the thread, for me, is because "it won't garner any discussion", but how do you know? How is it possible to predict that? Had the thread been left open, the OP might have gotten what he wanted, and it might have helped other people in the process. But, suppose no one replied. So what? What was there to lose for the forum? The thread would just fade away, and no one would remember it. The thread was literally harmless. (I also don't see any rules against it) In this case, locking the thread ended up leading to a much worse scenario. Now just to clarify, this isn't a jab at Sydian, because it's a universal thing to me, and when I was a mod it was something I stood by myself.
As for it not being written in the rules - there's something called common sense. If a thread does not hold the potential to spark a discussion, it gets locked. Simple as that. We do not need to have a seperate rule for the bazgdggsaillion kinds of threads that can be created which do not have enough potential to spark a discussion. I hope you understand.Other (and bigger, before you jump to conclusions) forums I've been to allow these kind of threads, and if anything, any thread as long as it's on-topic and there was no tensity involved. Why just PC? This is far from common sense. (which is a hilarious thing to say by the way, because I've never seen anyone that believed that. Not in the internet or real life.) This is just strict.


My 2 cents.

abnegation
May 22nd, 2013, 04:21 AM
This doesn't really regard Sydian or the current case at hand, but do pardon me for the intrusion. But I felt the need to reply to this particular post, because this mind of thinking has always been something that bothered me in this forum.

You know, PC has always been shy about threads that seem out of the ordinary. Why is that? Looking at the thread in question, it seems perfectly harmless. I am not going to question Sydian's authority, but there was no reason to lock it. The points of rules is to prevent any heat or tensity in the forum, or completely pointless things, but it's impossible to predict that the thread in question was going to cause any of that.

What I am trying to say is, it seems the reason to lock the thread, for me, is because "it won't garner any discussion", but how do you know? How is it possible to predict that? Had the thread been left open, the OP might have gotten what he wanted, and it might have helped other people in the process. But, suppose no one replied. So what? What was there to lose for the forum? The thread would just fade away, and no one would remember it. The thread was literally harmless. (I also don't see any rules against it) In this case, locking the thread ended up leading to a much worse scenario. Now just to clarify, this isn't a jab at Sydian, because it's a universal thing to me, and when I was a mod it was something I stood by myself.
Other (and bigger, before you jump to conclusions) forums I've been to allow these kind of threads, and if anything, any thread as long as it's on-topic and there was no tensity involved. Why just PC? This is far from common sense. (which is a hilarious thing to say by the way, because I've never seen anyone that believed that. Not in the internet or real life.) This is just strict.


My 2 cents.
Pretty sure we've allowed threads in which inhabit discussion relating to Pokémon and human relations, and so forth. PC isn't a haven for "unoriginality", or not allowing threads in which differ from what you'd expect to gather discussion.

While you can never predict the amount of discussion that will take place, this forum isn't about the number of replies a thread will get. It's about the content, which is defined by the opening post. When there's a thread in which will attract a certain amount of discussion that we feel is not constructive or necessary then the thread is going to be closed. We don't allow request threads anywhere on the forum for the most part. It's not part of the discussion we wish to hold on the forum, simple as that. We don't desire for the forum to become a grounds for people to request things, we don't wish for us to be seen as a supply and demand kind of messaging board. We're here to discuss, not request. If you believe that there are plenty of other forums that offer these things, then go ahead and praise them, but simply because this is a forum that chooses not to do request threads in our sections does not mean that it must be scolded. It's not "just PC" either. I was the administrator of one of the biggest art websites in the world, where requests were allowed. We ended up having to disallow them because people complained that they were never being fulfilled, others got into hot blood about it, broken promises were commonplace, and again, the discussion never amounted to much more than 5 replies. So there are plenty of cases where this kind of discussion simply does not work. I can't say for certain, but I do not believe that PC is going to begin allowing people to request walkthroughs for games and so forth, simply because it is not something we desire to do.

As you say, plenty of other forums provide this. However, PC provides hundreds of forum styles, an on-going basis for active discussion, continuing offering to give us feedback such as this thread, Get-Togethers, the largest Pokémon ROM Hacking source in the world, features such as the like system, post-comments, the ability to create blogs, some interesting supporter perks, and some very dedicated staff members. While some of these features are included on other forums, it cannot be said that PC fails to offer things to its members. I simply wish to state that this is something we don't, due to aforementioned reasons.

pokemonmasteraaron
May 22nd, 2013, 05:55 AM
OK, I will say this, then I'm outa this thread. :)
I think one of the reasons GC is really offended by this is because he has asked for such help for over 6 years?! I think? Something like that? and has never met this behavior. http://www.youtube.com/genuinescorruption
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1cmvI9NK8g
How could that be wrong?
I am going to shut up now as I am getting emotional and don't want to say something I'll regret in the heat of the moment. (smile)
I will say, though, I have been on this forum for longer than GC, and I know some of the people better. E.G. I reposted an old game in the trivia section a while back because I was told I could, but BinaryPeaches closed it due to a slight change in the way things were working in that section. I didn't wholeheartedly aggree, but I understood and just lived with it, because BP is a good, well meaning, person. Syd may very well also be a kind and well meaning person.
Aaaaaaanyway, sorry everybody, I know fabio wants to just close this particular discussion, I just wanted to use "Parting Remark" on all of you Pokécommuniters.

GenuineCorruption
May 22nd, 2013, 08:22 AM
Since the discussion did continue on through the night I figure I'd say this.
Some of the staff responses to those last few posts are, as stated above quite shalow. To not give someone or something a chance, and to just say it has no potential with no supporting evidence of such is to say that it is not worthy of being here, which is to say that the person in question is not worthy of being here.
If that's how you feel about your community, then that's your choice but that's sad.
The staff here believe that their own values are the only values worth mentioning.
I think there really is a great community here. I also think there's potential for a lot of amazing discussion on this site if people didn't have to be afrade to speek their minds. You encourage us to speek about problems privately, but when we do that we get ignored, which is honestly childish and cowardly.
The next logical step is to speek publically, which is shut down. Also cowardly.
As we saw last night, a few people spoke up because I did.
Regarding what was said above (Sydian having moderated the same forums for four years), maybe, just maybe that's the problem right there?
Not only does power go to people's heads sometimes, but they get too comfortable and just tired of it. It becomes more like a chore than something enjoyable after some time, and so I can totally see how it could lead you to make irrassional decisions simply out of frustration.

What would be wrong with the concept of anual staff elections? This way the community would choose who it's governing force is based on what the collective body believes in.
This place is big on formality, so wouldn't a democratic approach just make sense?

Oryx
May 22nd, 2013, 08:43 AM
PC isn't a democracy and tbh I like it that way. Just because you're popular does not mean that you're a capable leader; and an election would become a popularity contest. The way the higher staff pick moderators is not based on popularity. Obviously you have to not be a generally disliked person because a mod is basically a PR position, but some of the best mods we have would never have been elected because they were picked from relative obscurity, not many posts, to be a mod. People need to be decided on based on ability to handle the responsibilities of staff, not based on how many friends on PC they have. The higher staff are higher staff because they have the ability and responsibility to put aside personal thoughts towards members and assess them fairly without bias, and members are not held to this standard and shouldn't be - they're members, they shouldn't have the same kinds of responsibilities staff have because that would be really unfair to them.

Also just pointing out Syd would be re-elected over and over again in all her sections as she is a very popular mod, so you wouldn't get what you're angling for this way either.

Jak
May 22nd, 2013, 08:47 AM
Regarding what was said above (Sydian having moderated the same forums for four years), maybe, just maybe that's the problem right there?

I would have been fired long ago if I wasn't the right person for the job.

Look, I take all my feedback to heart. I listen to my members. But at this point, what you're giving isn't even worth calling feedback. This ugly grudge you're holding over this one thread is just annoying. I have given you other options. So many times. Earlier in the year and in this thread. Like...are you even reading what I've said? Cause I really don't think you are. That being said, I don't know why I'm bothering to post in here and reply to you. Chances are you won't read this either.

But look. I'm done with this whole ordeal. You want to keep harping over it after I've given you alternatives to your friend's thread? Fine. Keep at it and see where it goes. Two smods have already tried to discontinue this topic, and I'm going to respect their wishes and ask that if you really want to continue, PM Captain Fabio or Patchisou Yutohru or Abnegation or whoever you want. But I'm out. I'm done.

GenuineCorruption
May 22nd, 2013, 08:49 AM
What I was getting at is that it would force them to make promices to the community in order to maintain the vote of confidence.
Higher staff are higher staff because they own the domain name, web server, cPanel/WHM license, vBulletin license, etc.

Zorua
May 22nd, 2013, 08:51 AM
Higher staff are higher staff because they own the domain name, web server, cPanel/WHM license, vBulletin license, etc.

No? o_O The only person that owns all of those things is Steve, really...

Higher staff are picked by Higher staff. It's as simple as that. S-mods and above can vote for s-mods and above. It has nothing to do with vbulletin at all.

Oryx
May 22nd, 2013, 08:54 AM
No, that's not why higher staff are higher staff. It has nothing to do with who owns licenses. They are chosen because they are mature, driven moderators that have the ability to remain unbiased in conflicts, and can contribute constructively to HQ, where forum-wide decisions are made. I don't know where you got that misconception, but h-staff are chosen just like moderators are, licenses are irrelevant.

GenuineCorruption
May 22nd, 2013, 08:59 AM
that have the ability to remain unbiased in conflicts,

That's something we need here real bad. Maybe it exists in some areas, in fact I know it does. However it doesn't in others.
I am sure licenses etc has something to do with it, someone has to pay your webhost to keep your server in existance (unless you have free hosting?)

Oryx
May 22nd, 2013, 09:03 AM
Rukario handles the financial aspects of the forum. No one is promoted to higher staff due to their ability to pay for a license, or pay for anything. I can guarantee you this, 100%. You can disagree with the way things are run around here, but when staff members are telling you that you are wrong on how the forum is run, please don't argue as if you have an inside track to how higher staff is promoted. This isn't a matter of a difference of opinion; paying for licenses has nothing to do with higher staff promotions.

Do you have an example of the bias that you seem to be implying the higher staff possesses?

Cordelia
May 22nd, 2013, 09:04 AM
The person who pays the bills doesn't really participate much in PC. Please, don't comment on things if you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. It only makes you look worse.

Anna
May 22nd, 2013, 09:04 AM
that have the ability to remain unbiased in conflicts,

That's something we need here real bad. Maybe it exists in some areas, in fact I know it does. However it doesn't in others.

I would just like to say that staff are people as well, and remaining unbiased in conflicts is difficult when the conflict continues on after many instances where a reasonable solution could have been achieved.

GenuineCorruption
May 22nd, 2013, 09:07 AM
Yeah, I do.
Nothing's investigated, mods can do no wrong. Exclusion, Cyberbullying (in the case of unapproved challenges in some cases), etc. Obviously you guys are all pretty close with one another, maybe even in person, which is cool and all but evidently there's no objectivity anywhere.

Cordelia
May 22nd, 2013, 09:11 AM
Mods are of course investigated by h-staff. We've had mods be demoted over their actions and behavior. We are held very accountable and have to watch what we say, particularly in this instance. You just won't drop it. Syd did nothing wrong. She told him where to post. This doesn't concern you at all, either. You are a third party who can't get his facts right and won't drop it.

So drop it.

Maruno
May 22nd, 2013, 09:13 AM
Since the discussion did continue on through the night I figure I'd say this.
Despite having several higher members of staff telling you to drop it?


Some of the staff responses to those last few posts are, as stated above quite shalow. To not give someone or something a chance, and to just say it has no potential with no supporting evidence of such is to say that it is not worthy of being here, which is to say that the person in question is not worthy of being here.
I'll just comment on this.

Yes, the thread is question was different, and there's no precedent for whether it would have flourished or not. However, we have imaginations, which we can use to guess what the thread's outcome would have been. My imagination, for instance, says that it wouldn't have even taken off, because it wouldn't at all concern the vast majority of users, and any responses it would have gotten would have been pointless "I support this idea" messages with nothing actually done about it. I'm sure that's what Syd's imagination told her too.

The thing is, staff are in charge of their sections; that's how PokéCommunity works. It's up to each mod to decide how best to run their sections, which means quite often they will have to rely on their imaginations to decide whether a thread or challenge or ROM hack or whatever is suitable to be in their section. Some sections are more suited for short threads for quick questions than others, and some sections are primarily for decent discussions. Syd's sections are generally "decent discussions" sections, and in this case she decided the thread in question wouldn't provide any kind of discussion, so she closed it. That's fine; that's one of the things she does in her role. She offered explanations and alternatives, which is more than she needed to do.



In any case, it was not your thread. Aaron accepted the decision, and for some bizarre reason you're taking offence on his behalf months later, as well as whinging and lashing out when you're not getting your way. You're ignoring the explanations and alternatives provided, and publicly berating a decent member of staff. I fail to see why anyone should pay attention to you when you're simply not being reasonable and receptive.

Anna
May 22nd, 2013, 09:14 AM
Yeah, I do.
Nothing's investigated, mods can do no wrong. Exclusion, Cyberbullying (in the case of unapproved challenges in some cases), etc. Obviously you guys are all pretty close with one another, maybe even in person, which is cool and all but evidently there's no objectivity anywhere.

I would argue that this situation has been extensively investigated by a number of people on multiple occasions, taking into account every detail and viewing it from both a professional and personal level. Solutions have been offered. You calling Unapproved Challenges "cyberbullying" indicates a lack of experience with the real deal. Nobody is being discriminated against; if you had better knowledge of the forums I believe you would see next to no discrimination and zero tolerance for those who do discriminate. So please, do refrain from making these accusations.

abnegation
May 22nd, 2013, 09:16 AM
This is very offensive and derogatory. You have no evidence to back up any of this nor to justify these claims. No one is being excluded. No one is being discriminated against. I have yet to see a case of cyberbullying other than on your behalf at the staff's expense. The staff is being very objective and are being very mature, responsible and professional with their responses.

I'll reiterate what I said before: quit while you're ahead. You have no basis or founding argument. Your claims and "evidence" were debunked and rebuttled. The "victim" is satisfied with Sydian's communication as well as that of the rest of the staff. He (or she) has come and expressed their opinion and thoughts on the matter already - even going as far as to say that he/she is on good terms with Syd! You are not Aaron's spokesperson and you are taking something small and blowing it out of proportion to defame a long-term staff member who, from my experience (having been here since 2009), has always done a good job and nei' a complaint was made.

You should frequent the forums more often lest continue to make misplaced, delusive and inaccurate accusations / suggestions about its staffies. If the latter is the case, you can take your beef somewhere else, 'cause we don't want any of it :) *already had cookies*

[Edit]

@Abnegation,

Was writing this post for 20min so dun delete D: (started before you posted that bit!)


A post I didn't want to be unseen given the effort, so deleted and added above ^

I enjoyed the irony of "staff are not objective" being an argument posted within a thread which contradicts just that. GenuineCorruption, you have your answers. This is all off-topic, and any further off-topic posts will be treated as such. You have the Simple PC Questions and Answers thread for further questions regarding servers and so forth. Now please allow the thread to permit others to put forward feedback, step back for a while and get some air. No more off-topic posts now, please guys.

Captain Fabio
May 22nd, 2013, 11:54 PM
I am pretty disappointed in some members here. After nicely asking for the discussion to be dropped from the public view, you continue as if I never said anything.

For future reference, if anything comes up again like this, don't post it publicly because all it does is cause drama and embarrassment for the people involved.

Anyone who continues to post in here about the subject above will have their post deleted and a PM from me, end of story. If you want to appeal that, you are welcome to by PM'ing me only. Posting a reply here doesn't constitute as an appeal and it will be deleted and not followed up.

Next time, please just read. If you disagree with someone's actions, just contact a Higher Staff member and avoid all this drama.

Note: I am not saying moderator feedback is bad! It is amazing when we have feedback on how we are doing, because that is how we better ourselves. Just when it gets to this level of drama, we would like to avoid! :)

Patatas Fritas
May 23rd, 2013, 09:14 AM
Hello yes I'm going to throw in my thoughts here (and hopefully lighten the mood after previous events in this thread.)

I think overall the staff here are good, I have very few issues with them and I have good relationships with a lot of them, but I would like to reiterate a few things said earlier on in the thread about staff behaviour and a few other things, while I won't name names because really this isn't a regular occurrence and I can completely understand and empathise with the staff members who do this, because we all have bad days, but I do feel that all staff members can on occasion be very very rude, or, that's how I (and others) read it, I feel especially towards newer members who ask questions which seem obvious to those who have been here a while the staff can answer the questions in a very snarky way and it just really bothers me the way some staff brush people off and appear to not really care about the members. Obviously I think this thread is a great step forwards in terms of member-staff relations and I have noticed a few staff members making a concious effort to come across in a better way to members, but I think this is still an issue and while I don't expect it to go away I just want to highlight that staff (and regular members) can come across as pretty rude in the way they speak to other members and it's certainly something everyone needs to think more about.

My big issue though is staff transparency, yes we now know a little more about what the higher staff and just regular moderators do now in part thanks to feedback in this thread but I really feel that iron curtain is still very much there and this is definitely a contributing factor as to why members don't want to approach the staff. I feel it could be beneficial for members to have a little more of a say in what goes on with the forums, I've seen a few threads involving removal of features and members have had an active part in helping decide what stays and what goes but I think something that would really help relations across the board would be not to tell us exactly what's happening and what's being discussed but perhaps if a new feature is being discussed in the HQ or the Lounge or whatever if the staff do decide that's something they'd like put into the forums to perhaps get member opinion, perhaps a select group of people (The supporters perhaps? As they put money towards the forum perhaps they could have some role?) or just to put it in the announcements or wherever and just see if the feature that's being considered is something the memberbase want. I really feel that a bit more transparency with what's happening behind the scenes could be really helpful to the forums.

But other than that you're all doing a really good job and I am really happy with the way PC is staffed and the staff members and uh keep up the good work, I guess!

abnegation
May 23rd, 2013, 10:13 AM
Hello yes I'm going to throw in my thoughts here (and hopefully lighten the mood after previous events in this thread.)

My big issue though is staff transparency, yes we now know a little more about what the higher staff and just regular moderators do now in part thanks to feedback in this thread but I really feel that iron curtain is still very much there and this is definitely a contributing factor as to why members don't want to approach the staff. I feel it could be beneficial for members to have a little more of a say in what goes on with the forums, I've seen a few threads involving removal of features and members have had an active part in helping decide what stays and what goes but I think something that would really help relations across the board would be not to tell us exactly what's happening and what's being discussed but perhaps if a new feature is being discussed in the HQ or the Lounge or whatever if the staff do decide that's something they'd like put into the forums to perhaps get member opinion, perhaps a select group of people (The supporters perhaps? As they put money towards the forum perhaps they could have some role?) or just to put it in the announcements or wherever and just see if the feature that's being considered is something the memberbase want. I really feel that a bit more transparency with what's happening behind the scenes could be really helpful to the forums.
I just want to address a few things here actually. When I wasn't a super moderator, I assumed there was so much going on behind the scenes that higher staff did not tell us about. However, I'd estimate that well over half of what higher staff deal with is actually Human Resources and member relations. You'd be surprised how little we don't share with members. The thing is, most of the features we implement are actually suggested by the memberbase, and thus, already known by them. If there's things we wish the memberbase to have a say on we tend to ask them, other times however, we just need to get things done. If there's anything in which could been seen as controversial we'd probably ask within PCQ&F, which has been done on occasions before. I'd love to say "we should certainly tell you more and have you all involved with more decisions!", but there's little to actually discuss with the forum as a whole, given that as I say; most of what higher staff deal with is relations. We also like to sometimes add neat features as a surprise. Furthermore, this is why we have PokéCommunity Questions and Feedback, to let us know what you like and dislike about the forum, from where we can hopefully improve it.

We're also not extremely keen on supporters having more of a say than members, Supporters are not paying for the use of the forum, but helping us keep it running, and that's why it's a donation. So overall, there's not so much going on behind the scenes as expected, especially in relation to features being added. In saying that though, we like things to get done, and as staff we try to do them to the best of our ability. What most people seem to forget is that before I was orange, or Sydian was blue, or Morkula was red, we were all just members who care about PC. And still are and do. There's over 30 staff members to discuss what's best for the forum, and there's thousands of members to give us feedback on the features and whether there's something we can improve upon. Staff don't tend to make the wrong decisions with features very often, however too many voices discussing on where to put a table in a room can make it too loud, they're better off coming in once it has been placed as a lot more voices will be appeased with the decision.

adventure
May 23rd, 2013, 11:42 PM
Continuing this thought, I feel like PC has become more and more democratic over the past... months? Some people probably automatically think "democracy is the best, everywhere and anytime!" but I don't think that's completely true. When leading a country, it might be.

But when leading a forum online, which isn't really specifically bound by laws of democracy or people's will or anything but rather is a place that some people started and let others join in on, total democracy might not be the best at all.

What I mean is, I'm fine with the H-staff members taking care of important business behind the scenes. I've always assumed they do. Mod members as well, albeit not as large questions perhaps. While we non-staff members can browse the forum and feel carefree (not careless!) as long as we follow the rational rules the staff set up for us all.

But I believe what Abnegation says and I think it works fine this way :3

(uh, I hope this was relevant in this thread)

Arago
May 24th, 2013, 05:54 AM
I've always viewed PC as an Oligarchy and never really saw any signs of it becoming more of a democracy. All the decisions are still made up of a small group of people (when it comes to the internal affairs of a forum, it's more of a Monarchy since the decisions fall entirely on one person), but all of the major decisions that affect the overall state of the forum are still made by a small group of people.