Equality vs. Individuality

[Bluerang1]

So what do you think about having to wear uniforms to school and not wearing uniforms to school? Primary/Elementary to Secondary/Middle to High School that is. Do you think that uniforms suppress freedom of expression or support equality? Does non-uniform promote superior and inferior feelings among students or does it give them the chance to express themselves? Discuss.

Having experienced both, the later only for three days so far, I have to say uniforms all the way! Even before starting a non-uniform school I knew that I'd always prefer having to wear a uniform to school. It's just so much easier and removes the insecurity of not wearing a particular brand that others are wearing. I'm looking at you A&F, Hollister and Aeropostale. And less laundry.

This topic hasn't been on for a while.

 

[twocows]

Schools should have uniforms. While kids will still find other ways to be bullies, it eliminates a lot of the "fashion" crap.

 

[-ty-]

Schools should have uniforms. While kids will still find other ways to be bullies, it eliminates a lot of the "fashion" crap.

I agree! So many kids are judged by clothes, and the ones that can't afford them are often ridiculed. Individuality could otherwise be referred to as the haves and the have-nots. But I do not think that schools should have strict policies about hair, makeup, color contacts, backpacks, or anything else that could be considered an accessory.

 

[Steven]

I'm on the fence.

On one hand, clothing is a major way to express yourself, and individuality (especially for teenagers) can be very important. On the other, it can be a cause for great emotional pain for some people.

I went to a high school in 9th and 10th grade that had uniforms. Then I moved and went to one that didn't have uniforms.

In the one with uniforms, bullying for reasons such as weight, sexual orientation, race, height, hair, etc were much more common than in the school without uniforms. Almost as if that replaced the bullying due to clothing.

I honestly felt much more depressed being forced to wear the same thing. I felt like a robot, like I didn't even matter. But that's just me. :/

I dislike uniforms. Thankfully, my work allows for uniform customization (to a degree.) But me not liking them isn't a reason to be against them.

 

[Yoshikko]

I agree with Landorus completely. While school uniforms do eliminate the bullying based on clothes or brands, that opens a lot of other options to bully someone. It's because people will always find something to pick on. When clothes is not an option, it becomes skin colour, sizes (big, thin, tall, short, anything), even the amount of money you have, and I think that's even more cruel.

I don't like the idea of uniforms. The idea behind is is to create equality, but actually, it creates a very judgemental environment. People who are left out will feel even worse, because when you're small, you can't understand why you are left out, you look the same like everyone else, right? Everyone wears the same, so why you? I was bullied very long and very badly in Elementary school, and I know exactly what it feels like. We didn't have uniforms, but bullies will always find something, no matter what.

 

[Oryx]

I loooooved uniforms. Tbh, since I don't have a lot of money, I didn't have cute clothes to wear every day of the week. So the uniforms were just so easy and nice and I didn't have to worry about it whatsoever. I didn't personally see any bullying that seemed to replace clothing-related bullying though.

Uniforms still give you the option to express yourself through jewelry, hairstyle, accessories, and sometimes shoes depending on the uniform. We almost always modified our uniforms to suit our taste, at least hemming the skirt a bit (some more than others). There's also various "free-dress" days during the school year, which make for great incentives for the students, and in addition they're free for the school so they have more money for other things.

 

[Melody]

I came from a Middle School which wore uniforms, and even my Freshman campus in High School required them. I really didn't mind them much. I personally think that so long as the dress code allows for free expressions of individuality that go beyond the uniform are allowed for then it should be just fine. You don't have to be all accessorized up...but you can have some.

As far as it goes, yes...this is true. People WILL pick on whatever they can, especially kids. But I wasn't really bullied as much when in a school uniform than I was without it. Besides, they completely eliminated brand tags from our school uniform, if you had a brand tag on yours it was forcibly removed or covered with tape. Of course I stopped tolerating the bullies and they quit anyway.

 

[yasu]

I do not agree with anything being forced upon another person. School uniforms are just forcing children to conform and obey indoctrination, which is a terrible thing to do to such young people; uniforms should be gotten rid of.

it eliminates a lot of the "fashion" crap

Fashion is not crap. Just because you do not enjoy it doesn't mean everyone else does not.

 

[Oryx]

Fashion is not crap. Just because you do not enjoy it doesn't mean everyone else does not.

You have a point here, but not in the way you intended I don't believe. I enjoy playing computer games but I don't think that should be a part of the curriculum in high school, it's not about enjoying things.

But the point you made me think of is in the job world in the future. This past week, I was listening to what you need to make a good impression on various companies. For ones such as Microsoft, all that matters to them is that you're good at what you do (at least as far as what they look for from my school). However, there are also many companies that want you to be fashionable at least to the point of looking neat and not out-of-date, because if hired you'd be working with people and would want to be able to look presentable. But that raises the question of whether or not fashion in high school/middle school helps you in that regard.

 

[yasu]

You have a point here, but not in the way you intended I don't believe. I enjoy playing computer games but I don't think that should be a part of the curriculum in high school, it's not about enjoying things.

And that is the sad thing, that enjoyment is not the priority. You are ONLY there to learn no matter how boring and soul crushing you find the experience. You don't live to enjoy yourself, you live to learn what adults tell you and then work your butt off for a society that doesn't care about you.

But who says you can not enjoy yourself whilst at school as well? wearing a school uniform doesn't do anything to help you learn, same as wearing clothes you chose doesn't prevent you from learning.

 

[Oryx]

And that is the sad thing, that enjoyment is not the priority. You are ONLY there to learn no matter how boring and soul crushing you find the experience. You don't live to enjoy yourself, you live to learn what adults tell you and then work your butt off for a society that doesn't care about you.

But who says you can not enjoy yourself whilst at school as well? wearing a school uniform doesn't do anything to help you learn, same as wearing clothes you chose doesn't prevent you from learning.

In my high school, they've seen a noticeable difference in the attitude of students while in uniform as opposed to out of uniform. Wearing a uniform is similar to finding a study place for school; a uniform signifies to you "when I'm wearing this, I'm going to school to learn". That makes your mind go more into learning mode. If you wear that uniform often outside of school, then it defeats the purpose, but generally people don't. Uniforms put you in the mindset of "okay, school time now", the same way studying in a certain spot puts you in the mindset of "okay, study time now". It's a very similar concept.

So yes, wearing clothes you choose has been shown in my personal experience to make learning more difficult than if you're wearing a uniform.

 

[razzbat]

In my high school, they've seen a noticeable difference in the attitude of students while in uniform as opposed to out of uniform. Wearing a uniform is similar to finding a study place for school; a uniform signifies to you "when I'm wearing this, I'm going to school to learn". That makes your mind go more into learning mode. If you wear that uniform often outside of school, then it defeats the purpose, but generally people don't. Uniforms put you in the mindset of "okay, school time now", the same way studying in a certain spot puts you in the mindset of "okay, study time now". It's a very similar concept.

So yes, wearing clothes you choose has been shown in my personal experience to make learning more difficult than if you're wearing a uniform.

i can see that happening. my high school which i have been at since year 7 doesn't have a uniform and no one ever really gets picked. i'm pretty povo to the point i save lunch money to get games so i don't spend much money on clothes but people don't respect me for looking messy.
i went to high school in japan for a couple of weeks and thought that the uniform was pretty cool, kinda like all those anime, and through that i could see that yeh it would put you into a more of a study mode.
so yeh i see i don't really mind too much, but man some uniforms i see around when i go to the city are just awful, too much maroon :\

 

[Shining Raichu]

I'm definitely in the pro-uniform camp. I think it's incredibly important for a harmonious high school appearance that everyone at least appears equal, and nobody is given any unnecessary reasons to feel like they are better than anybody else. It's fantastic for students to be able to express themselves, but they can do this in other ways - through their personalities, or writing or artwork - or even in their clothing in non-school hours.

In my experience, people tend to find a way to put their own stamp on the uniform regardless, through accessorising or shortening their skirts or wearing a jacket they're not supposed to wear... so their "personality" manages to shine through regardless lol

 

[Freedom Fighter N]

Fashion is not crap. Just because you do not enjoy it doesn't mean everyone else does not.

On topic.. I don't like school uniform. I like wearing what I want. But as a guy what I want to wear is basically the first thing I pull out from the close, so..
Also, bullying.. I have no idea where you got that from. Bullying wouldn't happen in parents knew how to properly educate their children, and if it happens, just report it and unless you go to a stupid school (if you are, transfer immediately.) it should be taken care of. Besides, even if you do have a school with uniform, that's just the infinite reasons for bullying - 1 = You achieved absolutely nothing.

As for the people who say equality.. not sure what high class students are doing in a mixed school (don't they have some fancy private school to attend) but even if they do, someone... Let's say a high class girl because girls love accessories. A high class girl can still come with a gold, shining necklace. A nice, stylized armlet. A ring with a beautiful ruby, sapphire, emerald, or any other of those fancy stones on it. A hairpin, probably more than one. And now we have a girl coming from a family that has less fortune.. And that's not just accessories. It can be accessories or cell phones and up to pencils and erasers. So ultimately, nothing is done here as well.
If people were actually smart with all this "equality".. then why stop at uniforms? Why not supply all students with the needed stuff to be in school? That's a lot more equal than just uniform.

In my high school, they've seen a noticeable difference in the attitude of students while in uniform as opposed to out of uniform. Wearing a uniform is similar to finding a study place for school; a uniform signifies to you "when I'm wearing this, I'm going to school to learn". That makes your mind go more into learning mode. If you wear that uniform often outside of school, then it defeats the purpose, but generally people don't. Uniforms put you in the mindset of "okay, school time now", the same way studying in a certain spot puts you in the mindset of "okay, study time now". It's a very similar concept.

Seriously, why would you need a school uniform in order to assimilate whatever's taught in class?

 

[Zet]

School uniforms are great, it also prevents someone outside the school from coming in to stab someone(this actually happened one time when the high school I went to didn't make the students wear the uniform for some charity thing or something. I don't know it happened before I went there).

 

[Dawn]

So what do you think about having to wear uniforms to school and not wearing uniforms to school? Primary/Elementary to Secondary/Middle to High School that is. Do you think that uniforms suppress freedom of expression or support equality? Does non-uniform promote superior and inferior feelings among students or does it give them the chance to express themselves? Discuss

Uniforms definitely support equality very literally. They also suppress one's freedom very clearly.

Being able to dress oneself does both promote superior and inferior feelings among students and gives them the chance to express themselves.

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

My thoughts should be clear. Equality can take a hike.

In other news, trying to prevent bullying as a thing altogether is a hopeless cause. I think we should be focusing on helping children get through it instead. At least if we don't take away fashion, what someone's being bullied about can be changed or controlled with not all that much serious effort. I'd much rather be bullied about a choice of clothes or hair than something I cannot change such as height or complexion.

 

[Elite Overlord LeSabre™]

As long as they're comfortable and not itchy or tight-fitting, I'd be fine with uniforms. It saves me the effort of trying to figure out what to wear every day. And anime has taught me that school uniforms are awesome.

There just better be a "shorts" variant for the summer periods because even when part of a uniform, shorts are comfy and easy to wear :P

I really don't know about equality... back in school I never could distinguish between different socioeconomic classes based solely on clothing... but maybe that's just me being horrible at recognizing fancy name brand clothes.

Bullies will always find something else to harass other students about. Uniforms would only remove one bully trigger, there are still plenty of others.

 

[twocows]

Fashion is not crap. Just because you do not enjoy it doesn't mean everyone else does not.

Bullying people because their shirt doesn't have a logo is not fashion, which is why I put the word in quotes. And even if it was, it's not a legitimate reason to bully people. Plus, there's no place for it in schools, which should be educational environments, not a place to show off your clothing and make fun of others'.

 

[Oryx]

Also, bullying.. I have no idea where you got that from. Bullying wouldn't happen in parents knew how to properly educate their children, and if it happens, just report it and unless you go to a stupid school (if you are, transfer immediately.) it should be taken care of. Besides, even if you do have a school with uniform, that's just the infinite reasons for bullying - 1 = You achieved absolutely nothing.

>implying that it's easy to transfer schools

At least in the US, you're only allowed to go to a different public school if you live in that district, and otherwise have to pay thousands of dollars a year for private school, which is often not an option for underprivileged families.

You're also making the assumption that if a uniform is required, somehow that makes parents less likely to educate their kids. They're not mutually exclusive; a school can have uniforms while the parents are being educated on how to not raise their kids to become bullies.

Seriously, why would you need a school uniform in order to assimilate whatever's taught in class?

I'm speaking from my own experience. I've been to 9 different schools in my life, 6 without uniforms and 3 with uniforms, so I have a large amount of experience on the matter, more so than the average person. I have experienced firsthand the same group of people both in a uniform and not in a uniform, and seen the different ways they act. In every case, the same group of people with uniforms was more attentive in class, more prepared to learn, etc.

You must have ignored my analogy as well, which is a shame because it was a very good one. I'll repeat it with more explanation for you...when you study at the same place that you hang out with friends, play games, and stuff like that, you're not as focused on school work. That's one reason why studying at the library is so effective - if you go there time and again to study, then when you arrive there, you brain recognizes it as "this is where I study", and pushes back other concerns in favor of studying. That's why having a designated study spot works so well.

Uniforms are the same idea. Students do not wear uniforms outside of school, for the most part (there are of course a few exceptions to every rule). Therefore, when they put on a uniform, they're telling their brain "it's time to go to 7 classes and learn things and pay attention". It's the exact same thing - it puts you into a studying mode that you normally wouldn't have been in, if you had been wearing everyday clothes.

I'd much rather be bullied about a choice of clothes or hair than something I cannot change such as height or complexion.

You're lucky that you have the option to buy a whole new wardrobe if you're being bullied over it. Some students are not quite so lucky that they have that kind of monetary freedom.

 

[Zeph.]

In the UK uniforms are compulsory - we have to wear them in Primary (the first 7 years), and again in Secondary/High School (the next 6) So you basically need to wear a uniform to school, from the age of 5 right through to 18 (roughly)

I'm going by the Scottish education system here, but it's not that much different from the rest of Britain.

So yea, uniforms are fine. Even with them, people still find a way to show a degree of individualism with accessories and whatnot.