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Where do we go after we die?

Hassan_Abdillah

Wayfarer
128
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  • It is just a given that everyone wonders where they would go, but NO one is asking someone because everyone also knows that no one else knows! I thought this was so obvious.

    Okay, so I guess the not-genuine (I dont know the negative of genuine) nature of your question was based on the premise that no one knows about it, so all we can do is speculate.

    I don't think this premise is as obvious as you think, people (some 4 billion of them currently) build their worldviews on the basis that there is an afterlife. For some it is reincarnation, for others heaven vs. hell. But the said people, the majority of them at least, hold their view to be true. Some among them, rendered a minority by the perennialist culture of the day, claim their view is objective.

    Of course, I'm not assuming that all these people are legit in their reasoning. However I am also not for simply ruling out all their views on the premise "it's so obvious they are all wrong in believing their truth is objective."

    ...Why am I debating so much? :S

    EDIT:

    Strongly disagree with the bold statement. What gives my life meaning are my accomplishments, my achievements, my successes. Those are what drive me, motivate me, push me to strive even further in life.

    So let's say you know, for sure, there is an afterlife, and such and such things are going to happen there. Are you or are you not going to take that into account in forming your worldview?

    Also, although this is semantics, it seems you and I define "meaning" differently. I take "meaning" in its literal sense. You apparently take meaning to mean your motivations towards your goal, and not your goal itself. Is the definition of "goal" arbitrarily placed in your worldview? Just curious.

    And EDIT (didn't notice Darkrow's first post): I don't respond to personal attacks. As for the only line in your post which bore any rational significance i.e.

    NOT what actually happens since obviously no one definitely knows

    has been responded to above.
     
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    Yoshikko

    the princess has awoken while the prince sleeps on
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    W/e you are saying here, what I meant was that yes, I know there are people who belieeeeeve in that there is an after-life and I am not saying they are wrong or anything, but I am asuming that even those people know that that is just a theory they believe in, since obviously you can't be 100% sure, it's called believing for a reason. No one can be sure of it, it's just common sense.

    "has been responded to above." Then why quote that bit still.
     
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    3,655
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  • EDIT:

    So let's say you know, for sure, there is an afterlife, and such and such things are going to happen there. Are you or are you not going to take that into account in forming your worldview?

    Also, although this is semantics, it seems you and I define "meaning" differently. I take "meaning" in its literal sense. You apparently take meaning to mean your motivations towards your goal, and not your goal itself. Is the definition of "goal" arbitrarily placed in your worldview? Just curious.

    And EDIT (didn't notice Darkrow's first post): I don't respond to personal attacks. As for the only line in your post which bore any rational significance i.e.

    has been responded to above.

    I'm not a huge fan of dealing with "what if" scenarios but alright. Given the premise you have described, I would take the after life into account while living my current life, though it wouldn't be an overwhelming factor. I don't want to go to hell or get reincarnated as an insect or whatever but I want to enjoy the present moment too and if I'm consistently thinking about life after death I don't think I could do that. Fact is that I don't know what the after life entails so I don't go living my life thinking that far ahead into the future.

    -----

    I do mean the actual goal(s) itself too by the way. That's kind of what "my accomplishments, my achievements, my successes" suggests. Working towards and reaching the targets I aim for.
     
    3,901
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  • I have no idea. But I will. We all die eventually, no point worrying about it. Live out your life the way you see fit. When you die, you die. What happens next is not my concern.
     

    Jovi

    schadenfreude
    43
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    • Seen May 6, 2012
    Nowhere. When we die, we die and will be forgotten with the passage of time. Just like everybody else.
    Our souls ain't going anywhere.
     

    Jorah

    What do I put here?
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    I am more scared of the actual process of dying rather than what happens when I'm dead. You hear so many stories about people dying from cancer or heart attacks that it makes it seem as though no one can just die peacefully or pain-free :/

    In any case...I am not sure. I mostly think that nothing happens most of the time. Just that its exactly the same sort of experience before you were born: nothing.
     

    Yoshikko

    the princess has awoken while the prince sleeps on
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    I am more scared of the actual process of dying rather than what happens when I'm dead. You hear so many stories about people dying from cancer or heart attacks that it makes it seem as though no one can just die peacefully or pain-free :/

    In any case...I am not sure. I mostly think that nothing happens most of the time. Just that its exactly the same sort of experience before you were born: nothing.
    I agree with you on that the process of dying seems more unsettling to me than whatever might happen after that. Though, not so much the process of dying for me but the knowledge, seconds before it's gonna happen.
     

    Hassan_Abdillah

    Wayfarer
    128
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  • W/e you are saying here, what I meant was that yes, I know there are people who belieeeeeve in that there is an after-life and I am not saying they are wrong or anything, but I am asuming that even those people know that that is just a theory they believe in, since obviously you can't be 100% sure, it's called believing for a reason. No one can be sure of it, it's just common sense.

    Not trying to be rude or offensive, I swear. But this is just a rephrase of what you wrote above. You are suggesting the people who have an afterlife-oriented worldview have no rational justification for their belief, it's all "faith", in every absolute sense of the word. People do believe but they are not sure of their belief, it's just an arbitrary theory and that's the end of it. You're not giving their claim of objectivity any benefit of doubt. And this is where I take an opposing stance and say, we have to give them a benefit of doubt in keeping with intellectual honesty. We can't just start off from an assumption borne out of nothing.

    Also, you yourself said this is an assumption, but in the last line of para you attribute this to common sense. Isn't "common sense" used in such a context arbitrary?

    I'm not a huge fan of dealing with "what if" scenarios but alright. Given the premise you have described, I would take the after life into account while living my current life, though it wouldn't be an overwhelming factor. I don't want to go to hell or get reincarnated as an insect or whatever but I want to enjoy the present moment too and if I'm consistently thinking about life after death I don't think I could do that.

    Firstly, you can label it a "what if" scenario, but let's not keep that label from giving it appropriate benefit of doubt. Also, the proposed hypothetical scenario was introduced to drive home the point that one's belief in afterlife does have a place in worldview building. Your post conceded this point, to an extent at least.

    For you, enjoying the moment is more or equally important than/as concern for the future. Not to critique this view, this is just you. Other people, might have "sold their present life at the cost of hereafter" because the thought of eternal bliss or damnation keeps them from attributing any value to this life (this is assuming they have certainty of hereafter, not just a theory or blind belief). This is why it's a serious issue. Also, I think the reason such an issue is rendered not-that-serious is because of the assumption perennial philosophy makes: none of us can know which is the right way, so let's just pretend there is none.

    As for the remainder of your post, I think we need to burrow a bit deeper than that. A worldview is not just about doing things, it's about how you look at life; how you define words like success, purpose, pleasure and so on. Actions come as a result of these "states of heart". But your post, apparently at least, uses words like "enjoy the present moment", "accomplishments", "achievements" and "successes" arbitrarily. These words are not objective by themselves. Their meanings are products of the worldviews we adopt.

    To illustrate with an example: people involved in community services define success differently:

    - A humanist, and perhaps a buddhist, would try his utmost to preserve life and end the sufferings of people (focusing on what result his or her actions bring).

    - An alternative version of the humanist would not do it for the results, but for the sake of what he called moral values intrinsic to men (focusing on effort, because an itching conscience is put to rest mostly by intention behind an action, as opposed to an action with no substance).

    - A Christian or a Muslim, on the other hand, would do the same actions to please God and to meet Him in the hereafter (not focusing on the results, but the effort put in, because God's pleasure is earned not by the action but the intention behind said action).

    And the list of intentions go on: for the show, for entertainment, to get rid of boredom etc. So yeah, it's a long list. All these people define success or living the present moment differently. The concept of hereafter definitely plays out in this worldview choosing and hence their motivation behind what they do. So there is no "objective" definition of success. You think yours is objective because you are thinking in terms of your worldview, which has no concept of anything beyond the present life. This is why I said your goals are arbitrary.
     

    Yoshikko

    the princess has awoken while the prince sleeps on
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    Where do we go when we live?
    Actually that kinda reminded me of one crazy theory about how life is actually a dream and that "dying" is waking up from that dream. It's all weird.
     
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    Actually that kinda reminded me of one crazy theory about how life is actually a dream and that "dying" is waking up from that dream. It's all weird.
    If life is a dream, and dying is waking up, then what is going on when we dream while alive?

    Just joking around - I've heard theories like that too, I think they use dreaming and waking up in a non literal sense though. Like we think we are so different from all other matter cuz we are alive, and grow, and think. But once we die, we become more similar to raw matter and energy that makes up almost everything in the earth, and the universe.
     

    FreakyLocz14

    Conservative Patriot
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    Our physical body becomes fertilizer.

    Our spirit goes to Heaven if we accepted Christ in life. Those who did not burn in Hell.
     

    FreakyLocz14

    Conservative Patriot
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    So several billion other human beings deserve to burn in hell then, simply for not being Christian?

    Every single person that has every lived and is currently living deserves to burn in Hell.

    Every single person also has the chance to escape that fate by accepted Jesus Christ's free gift of forgiveness. Those who fail to accept it will perish because they made the choice to do so.
     

    twocows

    The not-so-black cat of ill omen
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  • Every single person that has every lived and is currently living deserves to burn in Hell.
    Straight from the preacher's mouth: you deserve to suffer in eternal torment because you were born.

    And people wonder why atheism is getting more popular.
     

    FreakyLocz14

    Conservative Patriot
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    Straight from the preacher's mouth: you deserve to suffer in eternal torment because you were born.

    And people wonder why atheism is getting more popular.

    Being born isn't the reason people deserve to go to Hell.
    It's because of sin that people deserve to go to Hell.
     

    Mr. X

    It's... kinda effective?
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  • And we are born with sin, therefor we deserve to go to hell just for being born.

    Its views like that that make it hard for me to stay Agnostic. After hearing crap like that I'm tempted to go full Atheist.

    Still, what about the babies who die within the first year? You know, the ones that are incapable of rational thought? Do they go to hell as well? Or are they a exception to the rule?
     
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