Ideal School

[Hatsune Mika]

What is your ideal school like? Now what is it different from "normal schools"?

Now for the question of discussion.

Should public schools be remodeled to students wants or should only be remodeled when necessary?

Mostly for when necessary but, there are some things that are annoying like the closest bathroom being upstairs or the jungle of stairs and classes set.

 

[White Raven]

NO HOMEWORK!!!

ok, ok, don't shun me for hating schoolwork. Let me explain.

My perfect school would have days that start at 9, and end in the evening. The teachers would give no homework, but gives you textbooks to read and learn for yourself. The cost? More tests.

Now, before you get me checked for mental illness, because 'since when is a test better than homework'? It may not appeal to you, but I see that as my ultimate way of deciding whether or not I like a teacher.

It's simple, I think homework is a waste of time. Tests, on the other hand, use up time you use for learning. And recall is the best way to learn, or so I'm told. So, if you have lectures, tests is your one way ticket to staying awake in school. The excess test marks will replace the homework marks.

The time we are at school is also weird, you'd expect the average high schooler to want only a two minute class every day. I think that 8:45am is too early for us to wake up, but I don't want to not learn anything. So I think pushing the start and end of school back 1-2 hours or so would be enough to make me happy.

And to answer your question, YES.
I can't think of how many times I had to get to the nearest bathroom, which are on the far sides of the school. I also think that all the classes have wings, like PE Wing, Socials Wing, Frenchie Wing, Science Wing, etc. That way, on the first day of class, you don't have to go from one side of the school to the other because you found the wrong socials class or science class. In my school, we have french immersion. I don't want them on one side because I think that frenchies are dirty and weird, but because the school is more organized. We also have IB and Synergy, so they can be in different wings too

If you ask me, I'd want my school to be laid out like this:
English Immersion Science, Socials, French.
Mixed Immersion Math, Applied Skills, English, Other Languages, Fine Arts, Music, PE, Home Economics, Cafeteria, Library
French Immersion Science, Socials, French
With the French and English Synergy and IB on the ends of their respective language area.

 

[Clebby]

Education is in place for children to learn, and that's the way it's going to stay. Whether a student has his wants fulfilled in school, that's always going to be there, and students will always be forced into going to school. Truancy is a thing.

In a realistic perspective however, that would also mean that having no homework would be essentially impossible in this perspective. Most all high schools are very homework driven, and that is the main method that teachers use for students to retain information, hence why people always tend to have homework for the next time they have that corresponding class. It would also mean that having no class at all would be a physical impossibility, knowing that homework is impossible.

It brings up the idea that having nothing but physical education (trust me, a lot of people would LOVE this to be their only class that they are required to take) and elective courses of their choice are possible. However, that is another false statement. Elective courses are mainly designed to be a bit of a stress relief, depending on the course. Students will usually have a better time with classes that they actually enjoy than ones that they don't, and it will improve their overall grade as a result. Physical education, on the other hand, does not do that. While a student may enjoy physical education, it is a wonderful way to wash away any knowledge you may have retained throughout the day, which will actually LOWER your overall grade as a result.

All in all, the two most basic wants of a student would be a complete possibility due to the complexity (along with the simplicity) of the education system, and this isn't just in America. This can be applied to any country that has a strong educational system. In terms of an ideal school, the main thing that would be achieved would most likely be any need that a student might have outside of those two things. I have never really had any major wants at my school, mainly because I haven't really seen any problems with the school I am at. That may blur my perception of this a bit, but nonetheless, it seems like an accurate perception.

 

[BadPokemon]

NO HOMEWORK!!!

ok, ok, don't shun me for hating schoolwork. Let me explain.

My perfect school would have days that start at 9, and end in the evening. The teachers would give no homework, but gives you textbooks to read and learn for yourself. The cost? More tests.

Now, before you get me checked for mental illness, because 'since when is a test better than homework'? It may not appeal to you, but I see that as my ultimate way of deciding whether or not I like a teacher.

It's simple, I think homework is a waste of time. Tests, on the other hand, use up time you use for learning. And recall is the best way to learn, or so I'm told. So, if you have lectures, tests is your one way ticket to staying awake in school. The excess test marks will replace the homework marks.

The time we are at school is also weird, you'd expect the average high schooler to want only a two minute class every day. I think that 8:45am is too early for us to wake up, but I don't want to not learn anything. So I think pushing the start and end of school back 1-2 hours or so would be enough to make me happy.

And to answer your question, YES.
I can't think of how many times I had to get to the nearest bathroom, which are on the far sides of the school. I also think that all the classes have wings, like PE Wing, Socials Wing, Frenchie Wing, Science Wing, etc. That way, on the first day of class, you don't have to go from one side of the school to the other because you found the wrong socials class or science class. In my school, we have french immersion. I don't want them on one side because I think that frenchies are dirty and weird, but because the school is more organized. We also have IB and Synergy, so they can be in different wings too

If you ask me, I'd want my school to be laid out like this:
English Immersion Science, Socials, French.
Mixed Immersion Math, Applied Skills, English, Other Languages, Fine Arts, Music, PE, Home Economics, Cafeteria, Library
French Immersion Science, Socials, French
With the French and English Synergy and IB on the ends of their respective language area.

Homework is actually EXTREMELY helpful! The kids can learn the lesson, practice at home, show up the next day and check homework. They fix any mistakes and they get the lesson. No homework= bad grades

Sorry to be such a bummer.

 

[Sopheria]

Homework is actually EXTREMELY helpful! The kids can learn the lesson, practice at home, show up the next day and check homework. They fix any mistakes and they get the lesson. No homework= bad grades

Sorry to be such a bummer.

Yea, I have to agree here. If there were no homework, your grade would be entirely based on your test scores. Homework is way easier to get good grades on than tests and in-class work, since you basically have the whole day to do it, and you have access to the internet while you do it.

 

[BadPokemon]

Oh, I forgot. School days should start at 10:00. Studies has shown that your brain isn't ready to learn until after 10:00 (in the morning). But that means there couldn't be sports, etc. I think if you get a good nights sleep, you'll be fine in school. It seems most kids nowadays stay up until 1 or 2 in the morning.

 

[Dakotah]

Of course going to school means we will be taught certain subjects (math, language, etc), but the true purpose of school is actually to learn how to learn. Different school models (homeschooling, public school, private school) approach this in different ways, but the goal is exactly the same. So the best school, for me, is the school that is best able to teach its students to become better learners. It's not always the people who perform well on tests that are actually the better students (which is why I think multiple-choice and open-book tests shouldn't be used), because tests are poor indicators of how well we learn. Tests only show what we've learned about a particular topic. A better way to measure a student's ability to learn is to see how easily a student is able to grasp the subject being taught. A person who is more successful at learning will more quickly be able to complete assigned tasks.

Now of course our interest in the subjects being taught will play an important role in how well we do in any particular subject, but even if not interested in the subject, a student that has learned how to learn will still be able to easily grasp the material being taught. Their lack of interest in the subject would just be displayed as a form of boredom.

 

[Blu·Ray]

To be honest, I think that our current school system, mainly here in Denmark, but also to a high degree everywhere in the world, is doing it wrong.
Current ways of teaching, sitting in a classroom, teacher at blackboard, students sitting at tables, is simply not designed to accommodate the different types of persons, and is objectively seen not able to teach a lot of people effectively. Sure, the average person will get something out of his lessons, albeit not as much as he could have gotten with other specialized forms of education. But those who fall outside the average label, those with learning disabilities, concentration issues, mental handicap, get almost nothing out of a typical lesson. Also on the other side of the spectrum, you probably all know the person who whizzes though everything, understanding the entire lesson before it's even begun, the person who can write an A+ essay in an hour. These persons don't get the sense of challenge, the sense of solving complex problems in current systems.

Some learn better through doing stuff with their hands, getting the theory out in practice, while others like to get their imagination around problems or discussions that are bigger than themselves.

I think that these people should get their own ways of learning in separate classes.
I believe that we are wrong by forcing a "one-size-fits-all" model on to students, and I think that we need a major restructuring of our current school system. Sooner rather than later.

 

[White Raven]

Homework is actually EXTREMELY helpful! The kids can learn the lesson, practice at home, show up the next day and check homework. They fix any mistakes and they get the lesson. No homework= bad grades

Sorry to be such a bummer.

No, no, it's alright. But I tend to get worse marks on homework than tests... So my reply is a bit biased >_>

 

[Oryx]

Oh, I forgot. School days should start at 10:00. Studies has shown that your brain isn't ready to learn until after 10:00 (in the morning). But that means there couldn't be sports, etc. I think if you get a good nights sleep, you'll be fine in school. It seems most kids nowadays stay up until 1 or 2 in the morning.

Couldn't sports practice be shifted to before school? Exercise wakes you up and boosts your metabolism, and morning exercisers are shown to sleep better, so it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing - and games could remain in the afternoon immediately after school ends.

As far as remodeling, the world is becoming modular, and I believe soon buildings will follow. We can switch out the parts in our computers, customize our furniture, and mix and match clothing, so it's only a matter of time until we come up with a way that rooms can be redesigned on the fly, allowing schools to experiment with styles and find what's appropriate for them. I don't think, barring that utopia, that a school should be redesigned because a bathroom is too far for a student to walk. Major renovation should be reserved for structural flaws, such as building designed before air conditioning or increasing the seating in the theater.

 

[BadPokemon]

Couldn't sports practice be shifted to before school? Exercise wakes you up and boosts your metabolism, and morning exercisers are shown to sleep better, so it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing - and games could remain in the afternoon immediately after school ends.

As far as remodeling, the world is becoming modular, and I believe soon buildings will follow. We can switch out the parts in our computers, customize our furniture, and mix and match clothing, so it's only a matter of time until we come up with a way that rooms can be redesigned on the fly, allowing schools to experiment with styles and find what's appropriate for them. I don't think, barring that utopia, that a school should be redesigned because a bathroom is too far for a student to walk. Major renovation should be reserved for structural flaws, such as building designed before air conditioning or increasing the seating in the theater.

I didn't think about that... Exercise helps memory and stuff. What bloc schedules? I have heard they are very good... For both the student and teacher.

 

[Plumpyfoof]

I think our educators need to make the children want to learn, and that's the key thing. They'll be interested in schooling and naturally get better grades because they find it interesting. There should be a greater level of choice on how the subject matter is delivered in class whether it be by taking notes or interactivity.
I don't believe homework is terribly crucial to learning material, however I went out of my way to avoid doing homework and now I struggle with motivation and I'm not very disciplined. Which I think is what homework actually teaches us, self discipline.
School should be moved forward to 11am in high school. Teenagers stay up late and get up even later not because they're lazy but because that's how puberty functions. 9am starts were so hard in high school I rarely went to my first class.

 

[Oryx]

I think our educators need to make the children want to learn, and that's the key thing. They'll be interested in schooling and naturally get better grades because they find it interesting. There should be a greater level of choice on how the subject matter is delivered in class whether it be by taking notes or interactivity.
I don't believe homework is terribly crucial to learning material, however I went out of my way to avoid doing homework and now I struggle with motivation and I'm not very disciplined. Which I think is what homework actually teaches us, self discipline.
School should be moved forward to 11am in high school. Teenagers stay up late and get up even later not because they're lazy but because that's how puberty functions. 9am starts were so hard in high school I rarely went to my first class.

In your estimation, would you argue that students have the potential to be interested by all subjects, it's just a function of how the teachers frame the information? Or do you think students have natural aptitudes and inabilities? I struggle a lot with the idea of inherent levels of intelligence and abilities in certain areas - it's hard to think of children as born with inherent math ability considering we're all born without any math ability whatsoever, but it's also hard to deny distinct differences.

 

[Plumpyfoof]

In your estimation, would you argue that students have the potential to be interested by all subjects, it's just a function of how the teachers frame the information? Or do you think students have natural aptitudes and inabilities? I struggle a lot with the idea of inherent levels of intelligence and abilities in certain areas - it's hard to think of children as born with inherent math ability considering we're all born without any math ability whatsoever, but it's also hard to deny distinct differences.

I would argue all of those things, that students have the potential for interest, that the presentation of the material by the teacher, and natural aptitudes all influence the level of preference for any given subject.
If we use math as an example as you have, it's not inherent mathematical ability but more of a logically inclined thought process (which if you wanted to dig deeper could be attributed to genetics, and experience during upbringing) whereas a student without a naturally logical thought process will have a more abstract or simply just different way of thinking about numbers therefore resulting in varying success in that subject. Of course it stands to reason that the better you are at something and the easier it comes for you the more likely you are to continue that over something you're not so good at.
I also believe that if you are given a notoriously boring teacher the material they preach becomes harder to retain because children haven't the attention span or dare I say discipline to sit in a class listening to monotony and remain engaged. If the teacher is more interesting and presents the curriculum in an entertaining way students are much more likely to pay attention, flashy lights, buzzers and sirens and all that. In my own personal experience I had good science teachers during primary and secondary school so I enjoyed going to and listening in those class, whereas I had one outrageously poor English teach in year 9 and 10 which caused me to lose interest and miss fundamental pieces of information that I would have to build from in later years. With that instability my English grades plummeted whilst my physics and mathematics grades soared.
So the preferential success of a subject is induced by your initial success and/or intrigue but can be heavily skewed by the method of teaching you experience.

 

[The Void]

Remodeled to student's wants when necessary. Which is almost all the time. Students shouldn't be the one keeping pace -- it should be the other way around. Disinterest and boredom can be minimized this way, and student potential is exploited even more. This is why I homeschooled, and enjoyed every year of it.

 

[Plumpyfoof]

Remodeled to student's wants when necessary. Which is almost all the time. Students shouldn't be the one keeping pace -- it should be the other way around. Disinterest and boredom can be minimized this way, and student potential is exploited even more. This is why I homeschooled, and enjoyed every year of it.

I'm not bashing homeschooling in the slightest, but the only reason I won't homeschool my children is because they need to forge their own social skills from the ground up making all the mistakes early so to not be behind when they go to college or into the workforce or wherever they end.
I'm also not trying to say that you have poor social skills because you were home schooled, for all I know you could be the most social adept person to have ever existed. I'm simply saying that there is an advantage for social development by sending children to an institution with 1000 other similarly aged children over having to organise play-dates with only the neighbours kids ever Saturday.

Again I don't mean to offend, I obviously have no experience here and if I've got something seriously wrong please correct me.

 

[Oryx]

Remodeled to student's wants when necessary. Which is almost all the time. Students shouldn't be the one keeping pace -- it should be the other way around. Disinterest and boredom can be minimized this way, and student potential is exploited even more. This is why I homeschooled, and enjoyed every year of it.

Are you talking about physical remodeling, or remodeling the curriculum? The OP started this thread with the idea that the bathroom is too far from her. If you were at home and felt the bathroom was too far from the dining room where you study, would you demand that your family remodel the house to your wants?

I'm not bashing homeschooling in the slightest, but the only reason I won't homeschool my children is because they need to forge their own social skills from the ground up making all the mistakes early so to not be behind when they go to college or into the workforce or wherever they end.
I'm also not trying to say that you have poor social skills because you were home schooled, for all I know you could be the most social adept person to have ever existed. I'm simply saying that there is an advantage for social development by sending children to an institution with 1000 other similarly aged children over having to organise play-dates with only the neighbours kids ever Saturday.

Again I don't mean to offend, I obviously have no experience here and if I've got something seriously wrong please correct me.

It's my understanding that homeschooling is farther advanced from sitting at home all day at this point, especially considering the influence on the internet; responsible homeschoolers become part of a network that goes out together a few times a week, switching off parents so there's some time away from family, and raising social skills by hanging out with the other kids. It may not be as socially sink-or-swim as putting your child in a school with hundreds of other kids, but when I was in school it's not like I talked to more than a dozen people anyway so I don't see much of a difference.

 

[Plumpyfoof]

It's my understanding that homeschooling is farther advanced from sitting at home all day at this point, especially considering the influence on the internet; responsible homeschoolers become part of a network that goes out together a few times a week, switching off parents so there's some time away from family, and raising social skills by hanging out with the other kids. It may not be as socially sink-or-swim as putting your child in a school with hundreds of other kids, but when I was in school it's not like I talked to more than a dozen people anyway so I don't see much of a difference.

Actually that makes a lot of sense. Although there are a substantial portion of students who would interact with a very large portion of people throughout their schooling career. I imagine getting your heart broken early makes it easier to deal with later in life. Who knows by how much it just seems intuitive. But I guess that's hardly relevant.

 

[The Void]

I'm not bashing homeschooling in the slightest, but the only reason I won't homeschool my children is because they need to forge their own social skills from the ground up making all the mistakes early so to not be behind when they go to college or into the workforce or wherever they end.
I'm also not trying to say that you have poor social skills because you were home schooled, for all I know you could be the most social adept person to have ever existed. I'm simply saying that there is an advantage for social development by sending children to an institution with 1000 other similarly aged children over having to organise play-dates with only the neighbours kids ever Saturday.

Again I don't mean to offend, I obviously have no experience here and if I've got something seriously wrong please correct me.

Most homeschool organizations today are very different. They allow for socialization among the enrolled on a set date while providing all the benefits of homeschool. Plus the kids get to bond and grow closer with their families and parents, the people who should matter to them most.

If done right, homeschooling is pretty awesome compared to regular schooling. Of course, if some paranoid mother just wants her child to be shut off the outside world, then yes it can be bad. But the same thing can be said for a regular school -- it would suck if the principal was some evil dictator or something.

For comparison, here's a list of really cool people who homeschooled almost all their lives:

• Albert Einstein
• Leonardo da Vinci
• Claude Monet
• Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
• Douglas MacArthur
• George Patton
• Thomas Jefferson
• Abraham Lincoln
• Franklin Delano Roosevelt
• Theodore Roosevelt
• George Washington
• Woodrow Wilson
• John Wesley
• Blaise Pascal
• Winston Churchill
• Hans Christian Andersen
• Agatha Christie
• Charles Dickens
• Mark Twain
• Daniel Webster
• Andrew Carnegie
• Charles Chaplin
• Florence Nightingale
• Sally Ride
• Albert Schweitzer
• Leo Tolstoy
• C.S. Lewis
• Alexander Graham Bell
• Thomas Alva Edison
• Orville and Wilbur Wright
• Joan of Arc
• The Void

Are you talking about physical remodeling, or remodeling the curriculum? The OP started this thread with the idea that the bathroom is too far from her. If you were at home and felt the bathroom was too far from the dining room where you study, would you demand that your family remodel the house to your wants?

Curriculum. I did mention "...to student's wants when necessary..."

 

[Oryx]

Curriculum. I did mention "...to student's wants when necessary..."

What is your definition of necessary? I would argue that most institutional schools (I'm not sure the word for schools that aren't homeschools) believe the same thing, that if it's necessary the curriculum should be changed. In fact, the word necessary implies that it will be changed, as a necessity is something that you can't live without.

I think I may have misunderstood your reference to homeschool - I thought you meant that it's better because the school is better at adapting, but do you mean that it's better because there are less students to adapt to so it can mold exactly to what you need?