Feedback: PC's Competitive Battling Community

[Pokedra]

There's a difference between small talk and meaningless spam, I mean I don't tell my irl friends about where my dog did his daily deed...do you? I don't think it's possible to keep the server 100% competitive talk related and I wouldn't want it like that but I think we need to rethink what we define as small talk and what is essentially spam. We should chat like normal people and utilize the server properly.

I don't say this to be an ass to the people who do like to use PC this way but the server is much more productive when the chat is focused on competitive talk. I don't even visit the server that much and I can tell that much. If you want I can post some logs or something about the difference between the two.

 

[Sirfetch’d]

That's fair enough. Still though rather than banning "twitter like spam" and punishing users for it, I think the best step it just to discourage this and encourage our users to be more mindful to the chat if it is having a competitive based discussion. When no one is talking, as long as it isn't breaking the rules for being explicit I am fine with anything being the topic. We have a very understanding userbase that I think would really do well as we start to transition into the more competitive chat. And for those who weren't around last year, our chat has improved beyond belief. This time a year ago, you were lucky to see the chat be about Pokemon 5% of the time. The usual topic was about the color of usernames. So things are improving. Just slowly.

 

[Pokedra]

It's funny you mention that any topic suffices when there isn't chat since the main reason chat dies is because someone posts about their day and only one other is interested in discussing it.

Isn't the fact the chat has made little progress a worrying sign? We had this discussion about the server chat last year and came to exact same conclusion. We need to drive the chat to be more competitive. A year has passed and our progress is...coloured usernames to PC Twitter? Do we become PC Instagram next? There are times when good discussion gets going, sadly enough this is when most of these so-called regulars are offline. We don't need a massive ban but for mods to keep the chat on topic and actually do their job.

 

[Sirfetch’d]

Not trying to sound arrogant but when was the last time you even visited the server? If it was recently you would see that it has in fact improved so much since this time last year. I don't see the issue that you seem to be having with the chat. It's improving. It's not going to change 100% to the way you want it overnight and it's highly annoying that you think us mods aren't "doing our job". Us staff have put a lot of effort into moderating the server, finding ways to bring it more activity, and just overall make it a better place. The issue isn't that we "don't have the stomach to tell friends to stop spamming" but rather we just simply aren't going to mute people or tell them they can't talk about a subject just because it isn't always competitive.


On another note, I am fine with staff stepping in and telling users to not interrupt the current topic with something that doesn't contribute, but for the most part this isn't an issue. I can say that I personally will pay more attention and try to discourage users from blatantly changing the current topic if everyone seems to be engaged in an all in discussion on competitive.



Also just one more thing, I don't know why the chat has become the center of discussion. It honestly is one of the smaller issues overall in the big picture. Just changing the chat isn't going to achieve what we are all trying to here.

 

[Pokedra]

It was today and it was actually quite pleasant since the chat was of worth. And no, it has improved in it's consistency but when it hits rock bottom (which unfortunately is more then it should) it degenerates into something no better then the colored username fiasco. There is improvement but it comes from a small portion of the server rather then the server as a whole.

And I'm not saying it's going to change overnight, this exact discussion was had last year and the decision was made to change the server chat. A year and a bit is plenty to change things. And you don't want to mute people but what difference is there muting a spammer and someone who is contributing absolutely zilch to the topic at hand? Far as I'm concerned the two are the same. Not saying you aren't doing your job but rather I think being a little harsher is probably what we need. The modding team is well chosen as far as I'm concerned, maybe just a little too lenient.

Because the server has always been the backbone of this forum. Making the server a better place for newbies will create interest for the forum. Other ideas like tutoring and clans would take place on the server. If people want this forum to actually become active again, the improvement starts from the server.

 

[Sirfetch’d]

I agree totally! Starting from the server and working up is the route to go. We just have to find a way to get the server regulars involved. I think the majority would love the idea of clans and tutoring programs as nearly everyone there is there because they have at least some interest in competitive. As more people become involved the chat will naturally fix itself.


(also i want to apologize if I have sounded arrogant in any of my posts. I have a high amount of respect for you because I realize you are a veteran and have contributed far more than I have to this forum and servers over the years. I understand why you want things to be a certain way and fully support that.)

 

[Pokedra]

Believe me I had no intention of attacking anyone, it is a little frustrating for those who've been here longer to see just how active and fun this forum used to be. Not saying the current state is terrible but rather it could be so much more (sure you would agree with this?). And I agree, if we can get tutoring and competitions going and slowly cutting back on some of the server spam I think it'd go a long way to getting this forum back on it's feet. The userbase is there no doubt.

I'm sure you've done just as much as I have haha, probably more to be honest. And I guess I do sound like I'm trying to dictate what the forum should be but from past experience a more competitive-orientated server leads to a much more active forum. And it's not like we talked competitive 100%, there was more then a fair share of normal discussion ;D

 

[Sirfetch’d]

mhm there is always room for improvement. As we are small we will be taking baby steps but I am really excited to see how things start to evolve over the coming weeks and months. I really expect to see the forum and server both improving as it seems everyone is serious about this. Moreso than last time this was brought up

 

[.Aero]

Spoilers cuz a few long things I figure:

On Moderating the Chat Discussions

Spoiler:

Let me just backtrack a bit here. I don't think Pokedra wants the mods to tell people to stop talking about meaningless topics. I think what he really means is to have the moderators try to steer the topic of discussion toward something more competitive. I figure we're all friends on the server, maybe if something interesting in your life is happening and you want to share it with others, feel free. I do agree though that talking about incredibly menial things such as "I took a shower woo"-type stuff should be considered spammy.

Basically when moderators see a topic starting to get a little dry or just two people are talking to each other about their own little daily endeavors they should propose questions to everyone about competitive pokemon (or, hell, pokemon in general is better). The mods shouldn't berate those who are speaking about hyper off-topic stuff, they should just suggest a new topic essentially. Literally telling the chat to "change topic to pokemon" is doing nothing. It shows a lack of devotion to actually improving the competitive side of the server since having no questions / discussion ideas basically states that the moderator is incapable of being a mod of a battle server in my completely honest opinion.

Has the chat improved? Well considering I haven't seen anyone complain about how "ugly my username color is", I'd say it's gotten quite a lot better. I see Pokemon being discussed more frequently which is fun and interesting (mostly this is done by a few select members while some just sit and watch, maybe they're observing or don't know enough to weigh in, but hopefully they'll learn more by watching and can weigh in when they feel ready). Progress is happening, slowly, but it is and it's nice to see.

On Clans

Spoiler:

So we seem to all agree: Clans are a great idea. We should do them. But all of us just agreeing with each other isn't leading to progress. It might feel that way, but no plans have been drawn up, a system hasn't even been suggested necessarily, etc. I know some of you have discussed possible kinks (not those kind ;]) in a clan setup, such as wars becoming stale after a while, etc. But we can't work those out I figure until we have a basic foundation for clans in the first place.

So I propose we try the clan setup that Wolf, Karp, Vrai, and myself tried a while back but it fell through due to Football commitment on Vrai's end and Wolf busy with various projects (and then I left forever and Karp went to Smogon at that point I'm pretty sure).

Basically the setup was:
We have 4 clans, each with their own little unique styles. The draw to each clan is basically: Which theme do you like the most? For example, I remember mine was pirates themed and the mascot pokemon were the Kingdra family. The reason there were four clans, if I recall, was due to the player-base being rather small. If we allowed just anyone to make clans, then the member population of all the clans would be very small since people, let's be honest, would rather start their own clan than join someone else's in a lot of cases. But since we only had 4, members were essentially forced to choose among the 4 clans. I believe we planned on increasing the number of clans as the player-base grew, but we never made it that far.

So essentially, I propose a reinvention of that idea. Let's try it again.

On Server Atmosphere

Spoiler:

Having been around forever, I'm initially completely opposed to changing the demeanor of our community. I enjoy the more mature atmosphere of the server compared to the forums themselves. However, if those on the outside find the topics / language off-putting, I'm willing to put aside my nostalgic love for the classic S&M community if it means growing as a community that BATTLES.

Key word is battles. My opinion on the matter is: I value a battling-community over an adult-oriented community any day. I can still PM / skype / talk-irl with people about my adult-related humor / topics and get satisfaction there. However, I prefer an adult-oriented community over one where we talk about what kind of spaghetti I had today and that's it.

I, personally, see the only reason to disallow profane language is to attract new users. If these new users do not battle or TRY to battle, then I don't see why I should give a damn about their opinions on the server and its friendliness. I understand that the server is associated with the forums themselves, but I will sooner leave for good if the server becomes a place for discussing average every day tasks. (The main draw I ever had for coming back was because I enjoy engaging in random ♥♥♥♥ery with my friends here, if I can't do that anymore and battling isn't a priority on the server, I'll have no reason to come back).

On the UU Threatlist Project

Spoiler:

Not sure how many of you play UU, my suspicions tell me 2 of you (Anti / Karp and Anti is only sort of because he told me he wants to get into it but can't grasp what's good in the tier). However, I play UU, I enjoy UU, and it's way more stable than OU currently, especially after the Aegi ban. So I decided to start that threatlist. Hopefully its presence encourages some of you to give UU a shot.

I'm sure you've noticed I stopped filling in the Pokemon too. The reason for this is because I don't know where I want to go with the design of the thread. Its current setup just feels SO INCREDIBLY CLUNKY AND LARGE AND I HATE IT. So if any of you have ideas from a design standpoint, let me know. I'm very interested to hear.

Also since so few of you play UU, I'm not sure if I can get that much help with the sets. I'm literally pulling them from the smogon analysis page right now since I just got into UU about a week ago, so I, as you probably can guess, am not completely familiar with all the pokemon and their sets. So if you are familiar with common sets for pokemon in the tier, I'd really appreciate feedback as I add them in (as Moxie has done, which I appreciate btw).

On Elf Being Dumb

Spoiler:

Elf ur an idiot. :]

 

[wolf]

I think the fact that I'm on rather consistently throughout various hours of the day (due to a horrible cycling sleep schedule) allows me to get to know various people on the server regardless of their time zones. As a result, I feel like I should know everyone who is on staff on the server, seeing as how those who deserve server staff status should be consistent members as well. However, every few days I see a brand new name pop up and I have literally no idea who they are (even after they explain who they are). My question is: Why are these people on staff? Clearly they are not consistent users on the server, and I highly doubt they battle at all, save a few random battles here and there (which I, personally, don't even count).

The BSS hasn't been particularly active lately, including myself. It could be attributed to the battle server's recent lack of activity in general, and it's summer break. As a result, we haven't been as interactive with the community as we used to. The problem certainly needs to be addressed, but I think it has more to do with the fact that the battle server has been rather boring lately.

Clans: Clans have two major problems nowadays: a) lack of reliable thread activity and content, and b) thread longevity. In the past, clans were kept afloat because of Wi-Fi battle scheduling (see: the current active league in this forum right now). When clans are completely reliant on battle simulators like PS, their threads lose a lot of activity for obvious reasons. Anti's suggestion of mentor/tutor clans would fix the first problem, but ultimately it comes down to our experienced battlers and if they're interested enough to consistently mentor people and keep the threads active.

If we don't have individual threads for each clan, we avoid these problems for the most part. Instead, we could make a league that's split up into teams. Within the league we could have clan wars, outsider challengers, and so on. Could also mentor in the league thread with every team/clan included, but a separate mentorship program would be better. Here is a more elaborate description on it (the spoiler contains the important stuff).

Miscellaneous ideas:

• Battle Dojo: An event that encourages people to improve their battling skills. Two major aspects of it: a) try to get as high as possible on Smogon's ladder (perhaps while using a specific Pokemon?), and b) after practicing on the ladder, everyone battles each other in a tournament finale. Can split everyone into teams to spice things up.

• Team Rating Event: Hopefully Zeffy won't mind me quoting him!

- Team Rating Event. In this event, the host will post a team. The team, of course, is rather well built except for a huge weakness. The task of the participant is to a) determine said weakness, and b) propose a proper solution for said weakness, including an informative explanation. Of course, similar entries are to be expected, so an aspect of creativity is heavily rewarded. Creativity in terms of proposing a solution that isn't always expected (like an underrated Pokemon / set for example) but also works and actually contributes to the team (basically not a useless gimmick).

We could even do in-game teams, where the host posts a team for a certain game (ie Emerald) and the participants are to determine how it would fair against the gym leaders, elite 4, battle frontier, etc. Since almost anything works in-game anyway, we could introduce themes like monotype teams, monocolour teams, and the likes.

Also could help improve everyone's team rating, provide a nice resource for good example rates, etc.

• Community Create-A-Team: Should be self-explanatory. The community develops a team together.

• More small tournaments with fun themes. I miss making these.

• A battle server rule that states battling related topics as a higher priority over off-topic chat, which essentially means that BSS will take action if people attempt to change the topic when there's already a healthy battling related chat going on. Probably isn't practical or needed, but I figure I would throw the idea out there.

• More noticeable prefixes. Could help discussions stand out. Here's a mockup that I'd like feedback on:

I'm playing around with stuff when I should be doing other things. D'oh.

Spoiler:

Thoughts? Too flashy perhaps? I was thinking it would emphasize the prefixes and their usefulness, but I don't want them to be overwhelming or unappealing.

Voice: The staff plans to remove the current form of voice, then replace it with senior (=) and rename it to voice. We did consider making the senior rank (aka the future voice rank) exclusive to active battlers, but there were concerns about it. A PM of mine explains the counterargument well enough:

Spoiler:

Re: Voice: Major contributions to the community that aren't related to battling include: a) promoting a welcoming and friendly atmosphere (e.g. greeting people), and b) providing notable off-topic chat (the type that isn't always generic like what Pokie referred to in the thread). Wouldn't you consider these contributions worth recognition? It means little that these contributions aren't currently prevalent, as the same could be said about battling contributions.

I'll also point out that promoting non-battlers to voice doesn't mean battlers won't receive recognition for their efforts as well. Would this be a happy middle ground? Understandably you want more emphasis on battling and you see the battle server as predominately a place for battling discussion, but others view it differently. Some like to use the battle server as a medium to purely enjoy time with friends without participating in battling discussion. "Battler-only" voice would no doubt undervalue all of these people.

I'm still on the fence about it so feel free to comment.

 

[Starry Windy]

I personally think that forcing anyone to talk competitively if they don't feel like it (like if talking about other stuffs, they will be muted) is not a good idea, since most of us are just here for some good chat, not just about battling stuffs, and I fear that many users will feel rejected if that happens, and it will ruin PC Battle Server as a whole.

I'm wondering, if there should be a second lobby dedicated to the competitive battling, so that anyone who talks about competitive stuffs can talk freely in the special room, meanwhile anyone who will talk about casual stuffs can go to our usual Lobby.

 

[champagnepapi]

since most of us are just here for some good chat, not just about battling stuffs

PC Battle Server

Ehhhh, the battle server isnt the first place you should go for chatting, we have tpc irc for that, where the primary purpose is friendly discussion. In the same vein i dont know why you would funnel battling discussion to a room other than the main one on a battle server with the purpose of promoting battling and connecting the competitive community. Wouldnt it be better to do that for another topic, like they have sports and music rooms on main?

Okay edit ----'

More important than chat moderation is the server's purpose and the perception that its exclusively a place to log on and chat like an irc. I think chat should be moderated lightly in the future but right now there needs to be a culture change since right now people might be getting deterred from getting involved if pokedra and magics posts are anything to go by.

 

[Starry Windy]

Ehhhh, the battle server isnt the first place you should go for chatting, we have tpc irc for that, its a solid chat where the primary purpose is friendly discussion. In the same room i dont know why you would funnel battling discussion to a room other than the main one on a battle server with the purpose of promoting battling and connecting the competitive community. Wouldnt it be better to do that for another topic, like they have sports and music rooms on main?

I personally think, even though it's clearly the Battle Server, doesn't meant that it's all limited to battle chats only, sometimes I do prefer more varieties other than just talking competitively. More varieties can make this server alive too, I believe. But that doesn't mean that I shy away from several competitive talk, though. I was here for battling, at the beginning, but when I was almost giving up on it, it's the friendly environment which makes me keep staying in this server, and PC at the same time, so... yeah.

 

[.Aero]

I personally think, even though it's clearly the Battle Server, doesn't meant that it's all limited to battle chats only, sometimes I do prefer more varieties other than just talking competitively. More varieties can make this server alive too, I believe. But that doesn't mean that I shy away from several competitive talk, though. I was here for battling, at the beginning, but when I was almost giving up on it, it's the friendly environment which makes me keep staying in this server, and PC at the same time, so... yeah.

The solution that has been proposed hasn't been to mute those who don't talk about competitive. The idea is that battling chat should be the focus. Essentially, if the chat is literally 2 people talking about their day, someone should step up and propose a topic related to competitive pokemon in order to produce a discussion rather than a conversation that could easily be maintained through PM of the two people involved.

Wolf also stated that it should take priority, meaning if the group is discussing competitive topics, then nobody should derail it with some meaningless topic when a healthy discussion is happening about battling on a battling server. I'd have to agree with Karp about the idea that if all you really want is a chat, then the IRC is a much more suitable place.

@Wolf: About voice, I mean, I don't really care. I feel like voice is a useless / pointless rank in the first place. I figure its only true use is to notify new users that "Yes, I am experienced at battling and know what I'm talking about for the most part." That's why I feel it should only be provided to battlers. I understand a lot of people like the idea of it making them feel "included" in the group of regulars, but it's literally a useless rank as far as I'm concerned (maybe you can broadcast /data commands and normal members can't I don't know). Those who require a + (or I guess an = now) next to their name in order to feel included in a group friends need to reevaluate the reasons they're on the server. Nobody is going to say you're not a regular if you clearly are just because you don't have a +/= next to your name. But like I said. I think it's pointless and my opinion on the matter shouldn't weigh in on the final decision since I honestly don't care how it ends up.

@Community Create-a-Team: Anti mentioned it earlier, and I think it's a great idea. I was thinking we could collectively create teams of all the different archetypes of teams (stall / offensive / balanced, etc) for each tier (or at least OU first) and then post them in an archive style for reference to newer users. This should include the team building process (condensed and a link to the thread where we collectively made the team), that way people who are new to OU or a team style can get a sense of how to properly build a team in that style. A short guide on how to play the team should also be provided to assist in developing game-sense for new users. Import should also be provided because I know when I get asked to battle OU I feel bad for rejecting, since I lack a team and an ability to make one since I'm unfamiliar with the whole meta. If there's an import available, as well as a general "here's how to play the team" guide in a single location, I can easily help other people test their OU teams or just casually battle OU.

@Elf being dumb: Why

 

[Dark Azelf]

@Elf being dumb: Why

>Aero's bottix hole. :)


Anyway like i said in my previous post about staff needing a restructure, see here . Maybe voice does too? On one hand people are saying "well gee you cant have non battlers blah blah" and on the other hand you have "yah shouldnt exclude non battlers blah etc". This is what i alluded to in my previous post, its inconsistent. I mean there needs to be a clear cut line on what actually determines how and why people qualify people for such ranks. You could possibly incorporate driver role too or something for battlers and everyone else voice who is considered a regular idk.

In a nutshell, you should decide the focus of the server. If its battling focused? Mod and Driver active battlers who are actually active and care about THIS forum (read: not "i come on once a week and am on smogon the rest of the time" or "yeah ive never battled, try to or even relevant in the bs but for some reason im actually on server staff") basically. + everyone else who is a regular probs which includes non battlers.

HOWEVER. I disagree with the notion that you should always talk about battling all the time. That gets boring fast. I think the chat flow should be left to be as natural as possible, if it drifts towards competitive and people interrupt with crap then mods should be all like "yo dont interupt". Warning and muting is a bit much though tbh.

 

[Sirfetch’d]

In the past we have given the voice rank to anyone who is a regular for more than a week or so as an experiment after our last restructure and we see now that wasn't the best way to go. It's confusing for new members who log on and see everyone on the server with a rank; many of whom don't deserve it for many reasons. This is why we have decided to restructure the rank and be more consistent on whom we promote. Seeing now that the (=) rank will be the new "voice", I guess we could have the player rank as a reward and recognition for the active battling contributers of the community(although I would have to propose this with wolf and zeffy). It would be unique to our server and a nice way to recognize those who have contributed by battling as opposed to just being a regular. Right now the player rank(which is the star) is just used for contest winners but I think could actually serve a better purpose recognizing the battling community as a permanent rank. Since we are a battle server, our battlers should deserve a recognition.

Also on another note, we do like to keep some structure of ranks so if we set "modchat" we arent just limiting staff to talking.

 

[Anti]

So I'm not thrilled about voice being given to non-battlers, and I don't think "just showing up" or "being a regular" is a contribution. We have plenty of regulars who routinely ruin the chat or at the very least could be called negative presences. I can live with wolf's proposal if "notable off-topic chat" isn't the kinds of things Pokedra describes (which I think are overblown, but his general idea of "the chat is often really asinine" is not wrong).

I don't think voice matters though. It's more symbolic anyway. What matters is a cultural shift away from indifference to battling, and perhaps more importantly, a cultural shift away from ignoring or disregarding the people on the server who want a more battle-centric experience. That's kind of why competitive chats being interrupted is so frustrating: off-topic already dominates the server, so when we're talking about the nuances of the Aegislash suspect case, it would be great for us to at least be given the courtesy of talking about it. ANY chat being interrupted is rude, anyway.

I agree with D_A's idea of light moderation (just friendly reminders of that) to combat this, and I think that anyone who feels interrupted can also speak up and politely express any feeling of getting drowned out.

It's more the principle that competitive battlers shouldn't have to be protected on a battle server. Yeah, non-battlers shouldn't have joined here in the first place when TPC exists, but they're here now so we have to work out a middle ground. "Make a room for competitive chat" is not a middle ground, however, it's the status quo very thinly veiled. We have to be met halfway. Since this server is the ONLY place we can chat about battling, while there are numerous places to do off-topic chat, I would appreciate if everyone could at least empathize with the tough spot the battlers are often in.

And to be clear, no one wants to make a 100% competitive chat, ban off-topic chat, kick off non-battlers, etc., so I don't want to see this strawman. Thank you.

I do want to come to a solution ASAP on the chat though so we can make to some of the ideas people have been throwing around about clans, leagues, events, tutoring, etc. that will shape the future direction of the forum more, though the chat is definitely important lol.

 

[Vrai]

Hi! :)

I hope most of you remember me - I've been quiet here for some time and I even see a few call-outs here in this thread (which are surely merited, haha). Reading through all of this, I do love a lot of posts in this thread! Especially most of Anti's, I can really tell there's a lot of passion and thought behind them. I have just a couple of ideas, responses, and points to make, but I'll be as concise as I can where applicable.

Firstly, at user MoxieInfinite in particular, since your posts had a certain air to them that none other in this thread have:

Spoiler:

Hello. I've seen you on Smogon and I'm pretty sure we've played in a tour or two. I also think you are glorifying Smogon and its users too much especially in comparison to the ones here at PC, and bringing a very heavy negative tone to this thread. All of the posts I've seen you make in this thread are very critical of our current users and imply that Smogon is better because of the way they do things. It's fine if you think that, but don't bring that mentality into this thread, OK? We've got a lot of work to do to make this place as special as it can be, and having someone in the background saying that our moderators (currently are? will be? might be?) colorblind sheep, saying that we are "second-rate" at RMT and other facets of a healthy competitive community, and saying that it's not worth it to pursue certain aspects is really just making you a setback in my eyes. Remember, we are not trying to beat out Smogon at the things they do best, nor will we ever do so. Also, we will deal with many many new players here - don't call them "retards" just because they used Bellossom. Everyone learns.

Additionally, to help satisfy the following question you posted earlier in this thread: "What players has this place brought up?"

My name is Zebraiken, and I am confident I'm becoming one of the most accomplished and strongest battlers on Smogon. This is my home - I was born and raised on good ol' S&M.

In order for this forum and this server to be truly competitive again, it has to begin and be enforced from the roots up. Like Anti pointed out, it starts with the auth - being active and constantly willing to battle will help. Encouraging battling whenever possible will help. If there's no discussion or there is some random-ass discussion going on, talk about something battling-related. Ask for help on a team, or ask someone for fights. Talk to someone about something new you're using. I like how it was suggested we should focus on competitive auth - voice for actively trying to battle outside of randbats is great.

If we honestly want this to happen, everyone has to go in hard. No half-assing, no "hey we should be good at battling again" "ok" "hows the weather" things going on anymore. I know I'm not the ~optimal~ guy to be saying this since I'm a ghost here, but it's true.

On Clans: No opinion on clans right now. I think it's more important that we focus on attitude and actually doing things first. More people join if they see it's worth joining, and then more people participate in clans... as they say, the more the merrier.

On Tutoring: I have some comments on tutoring I would like to make at a later time. I'm in the process of becoming a Smogon tutor, and I've refined my own methods enough that I could help make guides and work with people who are interested in tutoring here. Tutoring here should focus on the "brand new to competitive" types of people that get no attention elsewhere, then focus on helping them achieve bigger and better things while being a great environment so they want to stay here.

On Our Tournaments:

Spoiler:

As far as our own tournaments... they will always be a struggle until there is a consistent playerbase here. There is a small one now, but it's not consistent, and it's not big. We need to look at ways to build interest in staying and playing here before trying to drum up interest for some ~cool~ forum tours.

I had one idea in particular that I wanted to share with you all: Smogon has a ton of official tournaments, and it could be a pretty great idea for everyone here to work together as a team to improve and try to perform well in these. Don't team share, but practice with each other. Aspire to succeed, and when people see that x person has made great strides, others might be more inclined to try with us next time too. Learn from everyone else, practice with everyone else, get better with everyone else, and be proud of everyone who did better than they did before. Sounds pretty good to me.

Maybe we can try our own really neat unique tournaments later on too, but truthfully I think we need to work on the dedicated userbase part first.

On Server Atmosphere:

Spoiler:

I think your overall lenience is offputting to members. I often open up BSS, see a very weird/borderline conversation - yes, I've seen some about masturbation, some with people just randomly swearing - and just quit. It's very intimidating and even if it's not always like that, and I somehow just always come at a bad time, I don't see a reason it should ever be like that.

Can we fix this? I've gotten on many times (sometimes on alts, sometimes logged out) and just been downright dismayed by the conversation and left. I would imagine that someone who has no ties to the forum whatsoever but might have been interested in hanging out would feel the same way. Be lenient because it is a free chatroom, but don't let everything go to ****. Don't be strict just for the sake of being strict. Don't make this into some intergalactic war between auth and non-auth, because together we're a team that's just trying to make this a better place to be.

Let's cut the peen jokes. Let's stop making awkward sexual references every time something dumb comes up. Let's talk a little less about the real world and a little more about the internet world we're all escaping into, something that shares common ground with everyone who will ever enter our server.

...please?

Random: Let's not ever make a team database, because it won't help us. Team cores and discussing teams will, but making a database of built teams for people to take won't help. IDC if the idea wasn't brought up, I just wanted to clear this in case I ever forget.

I just kinda spewed some of my thoughts into this post so sorry if it's unreadable, but I'm tired now and I don't feel like cleaning it up. I plan on being around more, even if I'm not always available to play and such (I have a ton of things to do on Smogon + working full-time now).

e: OK cleaned it up a little

 

[wolf]

I had one idea in particular that I wanted to share with you all: Smogon has a ton of official tournaments, and it could be a pretty great idea for everyone here to work together as a team to improve and try to perform well in these. Don't team share, but practice with each other. Aspire to succeed, and when people see that x person has made great strides, others might be more inclined to try with us next time too. Learn from everyone else, practice with everyone else, get better with everyone else, and be proud of everyone who did better than they did before. Sounds pretty good to me.

I like this. Basically use success at Smogon as an incentive, while staying on PC for the social aspect of battling. At least in theory clans (or a single clan with divisions, like a team league) would help us accomplish this by developing a close-knit group of battlers.

Tutoring here should focus on the "brand new to competitive" types of people that get no attention elsewhere, then focus on helping them achieve bigger and better things while being a great environment so they want to stay here.

Perhaps we could collaborate and make a beginner's guide on battling? Similar to Smogon's DPP one but with updated info and additional stuff like team synergy and cores.

 

[Anti]

Yeah I agree with wolf and Vrai that using SmogTours to get better would be a great idea. Perhaps expanding off that, maybe sharing replays and critiquing battling execution might also be helpful? I know this is something that happens on Smogon that could be useful to newer players, and from watching a fair number of battles on our server I would say that it could really make a difference. Also, I think it would help a lot in creating the sort of cultural change we've been talking about by promoting some deal of pride in getting better! That's the kind of idea I was hoping to get when I made this thread, so thank you for posting. :)

On prefixes: I don't understand why these exist, if I'm being honest. Do we really need "battle log" or "event" to alert us to a thread's purpose? I'm not against them really (it's not like they hurt anything), but it's the kind of thing that I think is ultimately rather trivial.

Now I don't want to take a turn for the gloomy here, but over the past few days this thought has creeped in so I figured I'd share it.

We've had a lot of these threads before, though it's certainly been awhile. I think that if there's a single lesson we can take from the successes and failures of those, it's that ultimately, everyone has to really buy in and make an effort. Jake mentioned the disproportionate veteran/oldie/whatever presence in this thread, and I'm not going to decry that as much as to say that I feel like we need more tangible commitment to something like clans or tutoring from the people who would be the learners. Is there actually a demand for the ideas we're presenting? If so, we'd love to hear that. :) If not, then I don't want anyone to put forth effort that won't be reciprocated. I think that at this point we have plenty of workable ideas that can at least serve as a starting point. Besides the mutual exclusivity of "tutor clans" (curious if there's any more feedback on those?) and a more traditional tutoring set-up, I think most everything that has been brought up--wolf's league, Battle Dojo, team-building competition (WIP as I type), team-building workshop, more discussions and events, etc. are all things that I think would be seen as coexisting positives. (I've probably forgotten a thing or two.)

But Vrai is right about needing a greater playerbase. I guess the question I'm trying to get at is simply, how much interest do server regulars who don't battle have in picking up the game? I would really appreciate if some of them could post here and speak to this so we at least know what we are or aren't working with. I'm not trying to set a trap so if you say "not interested" we pounce on you but am instead just trying to get a rough estimate of what turnout we may get from existing server regulars for something like tutoring, which is a logical first step in expanding the playerbase.

wolf, maybe you could set up a poll? Maybe even a different thread? I understand that some people have felt deterred from posting here because of the heavy oldie presence so I really wouldn't mind a separate thread if it would mean better responsiveness.