The Mall.

[Logan]

We voted for it :)

 

[Klippy]

If you guys want a splash there, post about what would make a good splash image and we'll do it. The point is to make the area a place built by the members and with as little forcible intrusion by us. If you want a thread stickied, post about it. I'm actively looking in there as much as I can to try to meet goals for you members, but you guys have, within reason, full control of how that area lives or dies.

Threads wanting stickied? Post about it.
Want to help make the splash? Post about it.

You said it yourself though. CONTRIBUTE. The members voted for this area, and we're basically letting it be shaped by you.

In terms of naming conventions/descriptions, it's actively being discussed by higher staff. We know there's conflict there and it should be resolved soon enough.

 

[Sydian]

The area is a trial forum to us as much as it is to you guys. Mistakes are going to be made. But believe me when I say that we recognize issues with the area and things are being discussed. We're not gonna just leave everyone hangin'.

 

[gimmepie]

Honestly, I'm not a fan of the Mall either. I think that in its current state it blends too much with the Treehouse and takes away activity that rightfully belongs there. I think further defining the section like you suggested would be a big help during the trial period (a focus specifically of food, fitness and travel or whatever) since it would still by a lifestyle forum but it would actually have more direction.

Honestly, I don't want to see it return after the trial period because I think it hurts another pre-existing forum but I think whilst we are stuck with it some further direction would not be a bad thing.

 

[Klippy]

If people just flat-out dislike the area/idea, let us know. Instead of wasting three months with it, we can discuss a re-vote happening if there's serious desire for it to be removed. We can vote with all the previously submitted ideas or something.

Otherwise: if you want to make the area succeed or define it, post about what you want it to be defined and contain.

 

[Melody]

Honestly I feel like the Mall blends so much with the Treehouse as it is; we don't even need it. Staff can simply stick a pink [Fashion] tag into the list of thread tags and I think those threads would then fare better with the device that enables interested parties to find them.

That said I have also a lot of problem about how The Mall was supposedly voted into it's place. I've heard stories that people campaigned and sort of gamed the poll a bit to get it to be the new forum over sections such as Science or Space which I feel like would have fared a whole lot better than the Mall actually has

Problem is; I don't know how true that rumor is. I also trust the staff did a good job at verifying no one was blatantly manipulating votes; but I would like it if perhaps we discouraged people from nagging others to vote one way or another. I know no rules were explicitly broken in it either. However, I feel like the choice in the poll should be made organically; not made because of peer pressure. Perhaps next time around the poll should be made so only staff can see who voted what.

My own personal opinion is that The Mall does not belong on PC when you consider it's current organization. Not saying that this cannot or will not be fixed through tweaks to the core mission of the new section or that it absolutely must be deleted; I could see this being a decent subsection to the Treehouse if the staff felt like the overlap made things too confusing for the index slot.

Conversely, making it a subforum of The Treehouse and adding no new moderators for it specifically might address concerns about what activity it does have consisting of those looking for a new steel blue suit to wear. It would also quickly stifle any concerns about the overlap. Since it being a part of, basically a room or extension to, The Treehouse would make it hard to argue that they overlap too much and allow the forum to flourish a bit more as it was intended to do so without taking that much away from the Treehouse in general.

 

[gimmepie]

If people just flat-out dislike the area/idea, let us know. Instead of wasting three months with it, we can discuss a re-vote happening if there's serious desire for it to be removed. We can vote with all the previously submitted ideas or something.

Otherwise: if you want to make the area succeed or define it, post about what you want it to be defined and contain.

I can appreciate the desire for community involvement and all that, and as I have said in the past I think Forum Frontier is a fantastic idea to give the community what it wants.

I still think though, that creating direction in the forum and defining the forum is the role of staff and I think we've let the community, in particularly the Treehouse, down by not doing that. Obviously I don't expect a lot of people to agree with me here, but that's my stance.

 

[Klippy]

I still think though, that creating direction in the forum and defining the forum is the role of staff and I think we've let the community, in particularly the Treehouse, down by not doing that. Obviously I don't expect a lot of people to agree with me here, but that's my stance.

I don't disagree with you, but people had an opportunity to voice dissent about the "Lifestyle" forum when it was proposed during the discussion phase, yet only Kanzler really pushed the idea that there was overlap. I'm not blaming anyone for why or why not things are how they are, but very literally we gave people what they supported/voted for/asked for. The direction is still even up to the members at large. I'd argue changing anything prior to its creation would have defeated the point of people voting for the "Lifestyle" forum as Castform proposed.

We've had mounds of dissatisfaction with it since though, so that leaves all of us with two real options imo: A) re-vote and have Food, Fashion, Fitness as an option rather than Lifestyle, or B) fix what currently exists and make it how we all want it/feel it can succeed with.

We're rectifying voting issues for next time, regardless of rumor, so there will only be fair results and no accidental multi-likes. We'll do a real poll rather than the like system.

But as I said, this is in HQ now and we're gonna think about what to do next.

I would encourage if you dislike the area and want a re-vote, to say so, so HQ knows where the forum stands on doing a re-vote, as well as going and getting started on the stuff that was suggested in here, like pushing for decisive content for the area (most people seem to agree on Food, Fashion, Fitness, but hey) if you want to keep the area around.

Also these are my opinions - not HQ's, so don't take them as anything more than that.

 

[Hikamaru]

I did post a bit in The Mall but after seeing a bit of overlap concerns I would not be surprised if it were to not stay beyond the three-month trial period. I can understand why people are confused after reading these posts.

 

[Logan]

Just merge it with The Treehouse as a subforum (possibly simplified to Food etc.) and then restart the process with a new voting process (as previously discussed).

 

[Neil Peart]

I've found The Mall to be utterly pointless since its inception. Just seems like an extension of The Treehouse.

 

[Melody]

I don't disagree with you, but people had an opportunity to voice dissent about the "Lifestyle" forum when it was proposed during the discussion phase, yet only Kanzler really pushed the idea that there was overlap. I'm not blaming anyone for why or why not things are how they are, but very literally we gave people what they supported/voted for/asked for. The direction is still even up to the members at large. I'd argue changing anything prior to its creation would have defeated the point of people voting for the "Lifestyle" forum as Castform proposed.

We've had mounds of dissatisfaction with it since though, so that leaves all of us with two real options imo: A) re-vote and have Food, Fashion, Fitness as an option rather than Lifestyle, or B) fix what currently exists and make it how we all want it/feel it can succeed with.

We're rectifying voting issues for next time, regardless of rumor, so there will only be fair results and no accidental multi-likes. We'll do a real poll rather than the like system.

But as I said, this is in HQ now and we're gonna think about what to do next.

I would encourage if you dislike the area and want a re-vote, to say so, so HQ knows where the forum stands on doing a re-vote, as well as going and getting started on the stuff that was suggested in here, like pushing for decisive content for the area (most people seem to agree on Food, Fashion, Fitness, but hey) if you want to keep the area around.

Also these are my opinions - not HQ's, so don't take them as anything more than that.

Honestly I don't like that one person, even if they have a really good point often gets ignored around here. Especially if that person may not have a lot of ears listening to them in the first place.

I'm going to go ahead and say that I really do want a re-vote. Because I think it could have gone a lot better if one of the other choices had won. I'm not going to smack on The Mall for not succeeding; I believe staff can fix that if they think it's necessary to do so and enough interest exists for it to exist. I'd just like to see the Forum Frontier project move on smoothly. It's a good idea.

I'd also say that in cases much like this one where enough feedback exists to "clearly call it" and decide, staff should definitely do so and hold another vote. I don't think we should lock-step to the 3 month schedule if it's clear to staff that a forum is really a dead fish. I know some of you staffers will probably disagree and think that it's not fair if we do it that way; but I feel like it's a waste of time to force a 3 month wait/"living with it" if something is legitimately disliked or lacks interested users trying to do something with it.

 

[Mana1]

The thing is - it was voted on. Of course some people won't like the idea, that's why they probably picked another option. If we reset the whole thing just because not everyone is pleased then we might as well just not run Forum Frontier.

Also I'm not sure how one person has been ignored, at all :( in fact, Klippy already pointed out that if anyone else is displeased they should say, to strengthen the evidence. We're listening!

 

[Margot]

A thread has been created within the forum to discuss what can be done to better distinguish it from The Treehouse. I think it's important to get feedback from members who do enjoy posting there as well. I think a lot of really good points have been made, but as someone who actually likes the forum, I think a few changes can make it really cool. I would prefer it if a re-vote were to occur, that we hold off until we get more feedback and maybe implement some changes? I think that would be fair.

 

[Pebbles]

I've found The Mall to be utterly pointless since its inception. Just seems like an extension of The Treehouse.

this pretty much.

even though i did post in the section a little bit to see what it is....
i don't get it, it is basically the same as the tree house if you ask me
i think another specific board should be in that spot instead.
having two boards that are this similiar really, is kinda useless
and if not a specific subject, make it general but at least a lot different from the treehouse​

 

[Melody]

The thing is - it was voted on. Of course some people won't like the idea, that's why they probably picked another option. If we reset the whole thing just because not everyone is pleased then we might as well just not run Forum Frontier.

Also I'm not sure how one person has been ignored, at all :( in fact, Klippy already pointed out that if anyone else is displeased they should say, to strengthen the evidence. We're listening!

I say this because not everyone here has the courage to speak out like Johnny or myself have. It can be intimidating to get one's concerns across at times, even I battle that; and I'm probably one of the more annoyingly vocal members who isn't afraid of being wrong.

I think at least Klippy can vouch for the amount of grumbling about the Mall; at least among some of us in UG skype; which is why I suppose Johnny finally decided to make the thread. Not saying we are a majority or that we're necessarily right in this issue; but I do feel like sometimes it's a bit like the staff won't hear something unless someone else backs you up; which makes giving feedback kind of difficult at times. Not saying I don't understand why things are done that way, just that I feel that sometimes that a different attitude should be taken when it comes to feedback other than simply "Majority Rules".

A thread has been created within the forum to discuss what can be done to better distinguish it from The Treehouse. I think it's important to get feedback from members who do enjoy posting there as well. I think a lot of really good points have been made, but as someone who actually likes the forum, I think a few changes can make it really cool. I would prefer it if a re-vote were to occur, that we hold off until we get more feedback and maybe implement some changes? I think that would be fair.

That's actually a very fair thing to do; and I'm glad that someone finally stepped up to gather some information on what direction needs to be done. I actually kind of wish that staff had made a little more clear that they were keeping their fingers out of FF projects other than enforcing Global Rules. And maybe they did but I'm too blind to have seen it yet.

But it is at least clear that they're looking on and will hopefully refine the process a bit for the next candidate forum and things won't feel so raw and unexplored. (Pun intended)

 

[Klippy]

I actually kind of wish that staff had made a little more clear that they were keeping their fingers out of FF projects other than enforcing Global Rules. And maybe they did but I'm too blind to have seen it yet.

Nope; it should've been more clear in the original thread(s). Once again: something we'll be rectifying for the next one. It's not necessarily even that we wanna keep our fingers out, but rather that we want everyone to make these forums into something built by the community and something everyone can look at and say, "WE built this. It wasn't just staff members that made this become a reality, but every member who cared and put time into it." We're gonna be involved, as fellow members, and even in that Feedback thread we're seeing clear directions people want to take it. That's +++++++ in my book and now we can start looking at some of the great ideas already suggested for the area.

 

[Arylett Charnoa]

I've already said something about the Mall, but I don't think a lot of people saw that. So I'll just quote it and leave it here as a possibility for when the "trial period" ends:

I agree that it is redundant, but I do want to offer a different perspective on this.

This Mall forum has made posting in these sorts of sections a much more pleasant experience for me. And I do hope it stays, even if it is redundant. Why is it more pleasant though? It's because I find the Treehouse to be kind of jarrring. There are ridiculous topics based on injokes with older members or things that make no sense (Dinosaur butts) crammed right next to actual discussion. (16 and pregnant) I find it to be irritating because it just isn't funny to me. Particularly since a lot of topics in the Treehouse are ambiguously titled and I might accidentally click on one of those anyway. It's just disorganized.

To make the Mall less redundant, I think that the Treehouse should be made into a completely wacky joke forum so that people who enjoy that can have their space. And the Mall should be made into a more general discussion section. That would mean that those of us who enjoy it would not only get to keep the Mall, but it would serve a distinct, non-redundant function.

As it is right now, I do enjoy it. And as I said, I want the Mall to stay. I just wish things were better organized.

 

[Arylett Charnoa]

That sounds more like a rant about the treehouse though and you're asking to change the shape of another existing section which is also redundant. The Mall was made for the users, for those who voted for it. If you didn't have a clear direction of what you wanted in the new section then you shouldn't have voted for The Mall on the first place(not you, but directed for all of those who voted).

The only solution to this overlap with the treehouse and the lack of direction is to focus the mall into something that wouldn't be possible to do in the treehouse, otherwise is just an extension of the treehouse. Which reminds me one of the reasons the music forum idea was rejected; many seemed to agree that it would break apart General Entertainment, which is exactly what you're doing right now in The Mall.

That is why I said "when the trial period is over." If The Mall isn't going to stay as is, then maybe it can still be made use of. The Mall and The Treehouse are both extremely related, the problem is that people are seeing them as redundant and confusing. My suggestion removes this issue by giving each one a distinct function. Just because you see it as "a rant about The Treehouse," doesn't make it irrelevant to The Mall.

In this case, The Mall doesn't become an extension of The Treehouse at all. It becomes the non-silly version of it. I've noticed it's already taking this direction already, having more down to earth, grounded topics as opposed to ridiculousness and member jokes. It is another solution to consider for the future, if nobody can come up with any other way to make The Mall stand out more or to just recombine it into The Treehouse.

 

[gimmepie]

That is why I said "when the trial period is over." If The Mall isn't going to stay as is, then maybe it can still be made use of. The Mall and The Treehouse are both extremely related, the problem is that people are seeing them as redundant and confusing. My suggestion removes this issue by giving each one a distinct function. Just because you see it as "a rant about The Treehouse," doesn't make it irrelevant to The Mall.

In this case, The Mall doesn't become an extension of The Treehouse at all. It becomes the non-silly version of it. I've noticed it's already taking this direction already, having more down to earth, grounded topics as opposed to ridiculousness and member jokes. It is another solution to consider for the future, if nobody can come up with any other way to make The Mall stand out more or to just recombine it into The Treehouse.

I don't think that's particularly fair on the regulars of the Treehouse, especially the mods who have worked their asses off to build it. The Treehouse shouldn't have to become some laughable spam forum because the Mall exists.