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Is it illegal to download a ROM image of a game you already own?

Alistair

2,243
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Fair use on the grounds of preservation purposes would like to say "Hi." But even then, it's still not clearly defined and could go either way.
 
Heart's Soul

Heart's Soul

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Zet said:
Wouldn't they only be disclosed to a certain group of people and not given away to everyone?
Click to expand...

I could go into the case of STARFOX2 for Japan which was released as a ROM online, it was legal to download, and we got an English patch.
 

Yusshin

♪ Yggdrasil ♪
2,414
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You can make copies of your game for yourself only as long as you've bought the product already. You can't give the copies to friends, though, and you certainly can't sell'em. If you don't own the product, it's illegal to download it.

Some companies don't even permit back-ups, like Nintendo ($.$); Sony and Microsoft don't really care, as long as you buy the game once.

All Nintendo game handbooks state specifically that back-ups "are not needed". That message is not on Sony or Microsoft games.
 

JakeyBoy

Riddle me this
392
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15
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For all saying you can make your own backups, I've read elsewhere that that isn't even true either. I'll have to find that quote.
Anyway, not encouraging you or anything, but I can't say I've heard of a case where the downloader was prosecuted.
 

Archer

3,956
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17
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JakeyBoy said:
For all saying you can make your own backups, I've read elsewhere that that isn't even true either. I'll have to find that quote.
Anyway, not encouraging you or anything, but I can't say I've heard of a case where the downloader was prosecuted.
Click to expand...
Precedent doesn't mean a whole lot, with ACTA's introduction and the constantly changing state of copyright laws.

As far as I understand, it's legalish to make copies of software where you're paying for the license and the disc is only installation media, such as Windows. With games, consoles in particular, you're paying for both the media and the license to use it. In which case, it's illegal to make backups, especially considering, unlike the tape-driven media that probably gave birth the need for backups has died out. Unless you are careless, CDs and cartridges won't perish over time, so they're the same as any other product. You can't photocopy a book incase it gets trashed.

Play it safe.
 

Alistair

2,243
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Actually, all physical media deteriorates over time. It's usually a long process, but it does happen. This is one reason why I back up all my programs on my computer.

But JakeBoy, it would be nice to provide a link.
 
Heart's Soul

Heart's Soul

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Well, I'm a member on a site where informing about downloading ROMs is illegal and this is an interesting quote, to say the least.

So, what exactly do we consider "piracy talk"?

1) Discussing "rom files" and "specific dumps". "Roms" (while technically correct) has a nasty connectation to it. When you say "I'm trying to get Pokemon Platinum roms to work" that has a much different implied meaning than "I dumped my Pokemon Platinum cart using NDS Backup and I can't get it to save properly". The former says "I used Google to find an illegal rom image of the game and I can't get it to work" .. the latter says "I'm using CycloDS in a legal manner to run my own backups". When you say "I'm using the (E) dump" (or even spelling it out completely) that says "I'm not using my own dump" - which again, implies piracy. Have you noticed that flash cart developers never refer to games by their names? Always by "scene release" number? There is a reason. Referring to a game as "3142" is a lot better than referencing the full name.

2) Discussing games that have not yet hit street date. GTA and Pokemon Platinum are examples of games that "leaked" before street date. And the former had issues with all flash carts. This lead to "massive" piracy talk on the TC forums which surely attracted the attention of Rockstar AND Nintendo. Saying you can't get "Game X" to run - and the game isn't even out yet - is akin to putting on a pirate hat, a peg leg AND hoisting a jolly roger flag into the air. There is NO OTHER WAY to take this discussion other than BLATENT PIRACY. The GTA "discussion" took it further; people pointed to cracks, patched roms and even BLATENT posts on how to crack certain copies of the game. 100% intolerable. Several bans were issued, several infractions were issued and threads were locked and/or deleted.

3) Discussion that APPEARS TO and SMELLS LIKE piracy. Yes, this is a very GRAY area and as such, we mods tend to take a more gentle hand than with people posting links to roms, etc. Let me give you an example.

"i just downloaded gta from a good site and it doesnt work"

Ok, that might be a little blatent - but you get the idea. This is better:

"Game 3123 gives two black screens when hitting AUTOSAVE"

See how there is NO reference to downloading, piracy sites there? As a bonus, the name isn't revealed (trust me, the TC team knows what you mean) AND you actually gave some USEFUL information about what doesn't work. Finally, what *I* would like to see:

"I dumped my copy of game 3123 using NDS Backup Wifi, it's untrimmed - and using the latest beta firmware v1.54b4, it two black screens after the autosave".

The team (and those here that want to help you) now have all the information. We know the dump is "legit", we know it's not tainted by "hackz0rs", we know HOW you got it, what beta build you're using AND exactly what happens - and when. We also know that if you dumped it yourself that you aren't using some sort of "beta" or "alpha" that some disgrunted ex-employee of Rockstar stole and released as a retalitory strike.

Now -- all of this sounds great, but I guarentee that 5 minutes after I post this, each and every rule here will be broken. Myself, as a mod, am going to get MUCH MORE involved with moderation here, and I'm going to do my best to enforce these concepts (unless of course, TC tells me different - but I suspect they won't). There are far too many "useless" posts with regards to compatibility issues - and many of the "useless" posts are filled with piracy references. My guess is - if we fix the piracy posts, that "useless" postings will go down too.
Click to expand...

This is taken from my flashcartridge's forums. It's an interesting read, to say the least. Full link
 

Yusshin

♪ Yggdrasil ♪
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I don't think you need to worry, unless you're in a country like Germany or Switzerland.

In Canada, those laws are really lightly looked on. I download games all of the time - Sims 3 + Expansions, and my Sims 2 + 90% of ITS expansions, Street Fighter IV for Xbox 360, etc. - and nothing happens to me. Just don't sell'em or give away copies. If a game deserves to be bought, though, always buy it.

Xbox 360 nabbed a bunch of people with Assassin's Creed II lol It was burned on a special type of disc that people weren't aware of, and when they inserted it and went online, they got banned for life.

>> Microsoft got lots of threats after that. They banned a few million users.
 

daabomb101

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in America, things are only illegal if there are no ramifications

it will be sad when stealing things on the internet is no longer universal
 
Heart's Soul

Heart's Soul

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Yusshin said:
I don't think you need to worry, unless you're in a country like Germany or Switzerland.

In Canada, those laws are really lightly looked on. I download games all of the time - Sims 3 + Expansions, and my Sims 2 + 90% of ITS expansions, Street Fighter IV for Xbox 360, etc. - and nothing happens to me. Just don't sell'em or give away copies. If a game deserves to be bought, though, always buy it.

Xbox 360 nabbed a bunch of people with Assassin's Creed II lol It was burned on a special type of disc that people weren't aware of, and when they inserted it and went online, they got banned for life.

>> Microsoft got lots of threats after that. They banned a few million users.
Click to expand...

Yeah, they installed a new update to XBox Live which analyzes the insides of an XBox360 and now people who modded their console are screwed. But I love this country (Canada) as the laws are rarely forced upon us on downloading material. My dad downloaded huge amounts of information, though. Temporarily, but it's nice to see our laws are light.
 
Dawn

Dawn

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Chibi-chan said:
All roms are illegal. Just buy the game again.
Click to expand...

No they are not. Please, don't lie or submit opinions on what you believe the law is.

My understanding of ROMs says that you have to own the original to be able to own a ROM legally. However, Nintendo appears to have made up their own rule about it, which is unquestionably the correct rule.

It clearly states that the ROM must be made from your own cartridge for it to be legal. This means no you cannot download a ROM. You can however dump a ROM from your own cartridge and use it.

ROMs are no more illegal than a copyrighted MP3, essentially.

I'd like to point out that Nintendo cannot really prove whether it's from your cartridge or not. They don't use keys or any sort of ID that could help them do this at this time.
 

FreakyLocz14

Conservative Patriot
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It's legal in the US to back-up YOUR OWN game but it's almost always illegal to get a ROM image elsewhere. This is a federal law so it doesn't vary state to state. Also, when you start sharing your originally legit copy you're breaking the law as well.
I don't know about international laws on this issue though.
 
Heart's Soul

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Many countries (like Canada and S.Korea) are very lax on the subject. My friend went to S.Korea and took a few videos. I noticed that 80% of kids had a R4 in their NDS/NDSLite systems. About every 20th kid had a better card or a knock-off.

Australia is now gone from the list (the loser just HAD to say his address when he uploaded New Super Mario Bros. Wii) and Japan is getting tighter.
 

InMooseWeTrust

Jack of All Trades
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If you're familiar with the responses to DRM (Google "09 F9" and the history of The Pirate Bay), the established industries are fighting a losing battle. Whether it's illegal and you believe it's right or not, ROM's are here to stay. That's just it. They're staying, and making the internet totalitarian will not change anything. A certain amount of piracy will always exist.
 

Prince_of_Light

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PkMnTrainer Yellow said:
No they are not. Please, don't lie or submit opinions on what you believe the law is.

My understanding of ROMs says that you have to own the original to be able to own a ROM legally. However, Nintendo appears to have made up their own rule about it, which is unquestionably the correct rule.

It clearly states that the ROM must be made from your own cartridge for it to be legal. This means no you cannot download a ROM. You can however dump a ROM from your own cartridge and use it.

ROMs are no more illegal than a copyrighted MP3, essentially.

I'd like to point out that Nintendo cannot really prove whether it's from your cartridge or not. They don't use keys or any sort of ID that could help them do this at this time.
Click to expand...

FreakyLocz14 said:
It's legal in the US to back-up YOUR OWN game but it's almost always illegal to get a ROM image elsewhere. This is a federal law so it doesn't vary state to state. Also, when you start sharing your originally legit copy you're breaking the law as well.
I don't know about international laws on this issue though.
Click to expand...

I found out that it invalidates your license if you play the game on "unauthorized hardware or software". Which means you can't use an emulator or a PC to play a game designed for another system. The only thing you can do is have a backed up copy of the game in case there is some kind of malfunction or corruption with the memory in the game so that you can replace the data. This doesn't allow you to actually play the rom on your computer.
 

ANARCHit3cht

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You can have a back-up, just not play it. But I mean, who is going to know? It isn't like they have radars. Police won't come to your door and kick it in... so honestly.. there isn't much to worry about.
 

Ricochet Orange

The one who needed a new forum
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Depends on where you live. Where I am I believe that it's legal to download the ROM if you own a legit copy.

Usually I only download ROMS to play Pokemon Hacks. Or really old stuff/stuff that can't be bought new anymore. Like old games.
 

Innocence

PC Lurker: I'm watching you...
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Heart's Soul said:
Australia is now gone from the list (the loser just HAD to say his address when he uploaded New Super Mario Bros. Wii) and Japan is getting tighter.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure if that exact scenario had happened in the US, something similar would've happened. It'd be too hard for Nintendo to resist. He was in a vulnerable position in the open, he had uploaded it BEFORE the release date, and he had made his address known.
 

FreakyLocz14

Conservative Patriot
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Narcissus Secret said:
You can have a back-up, just not play it. But I mean, who is going to know? It isn't like they have radars. Police won't come to your door and kick it in... so honestly.. there isn't much to worry about.
Click to expand...

It's highly unlikely but it could happen. The local police don't worry themeselves with these issues its the Feds you have to worry about but if they do just kick your door in they've violated several of your constitutional rights.

Prince_of_Light said:
I found out that it invalidates your license if you play the game on "unauthorized hardware or software". Which means you can't use an emulator or a PC to play a game designed for another system. The only thing you can do is have a backed up copy of the game in case there is some kind of malfunction or corruption with the memory in the game so that you can replace the data. This doesn't allow you to actually play the rom on your computer.
Click to expand...

I know it's only suppose to be for back-up purposes. Reminds me of that South Park episode where the stars were so hurt by illegal music downloading that they had to settle for $10 million mansions instead of $15 million mansions. Oh, the humanity! (sarcasm)
 
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