Isn't Blissey kinda underrated in competitive battling?

Vrai · May 22, 2012

OreoMaster said:
Well I really don't know what is so, so hard to understand.

Hi. Blissey can tank some physical hits, yes. Skarmory can tank some special attacks, too (Standard LO Starmie Thunderbolt vs SpD Skarmory: 206-244 (61.67 - 73.05%) -- guaranteed 2HKO). And so can Gliscor (LO Alakazam Psychic vs standard Gliscor: 249-294 (70.33 - 83.05%) -- guaranteed 2HKO). Jirachi can tank some physical hits, too (Choice Band Terrakion vs SpD Jirachi: 292-345 (72.27 - 85.39%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)!

My point: What are you arguing? EVERY wall in the game can tank some non-STAB moves, even when they aren't EVed to handle them. Blissey is a good wall, yes. People know that. Blissey is reliably 2HKOed by every physical attack in the game. Living one or two doesn't make it some demigod of Pokemon, sorry.

Anyway, since you seem to like arguing, I'm okay with that. I'll dismantle your argument.

OreoMaster said:
Vrai, the first two moves I mentioned in the post you quoted, aren't STAB indeed. They are Super-Effective. STAB increases the power of the attack by 1.5x while super effectiveness doubles it(2x). So logically a Cross Chop from Scizor does more damage to Blissey than a Technician Bug Bite. This applies to Metagross too. A STAB Meteor Mash from Metagross does less damage than a DynamicPunch to Blissey. So, I can't get why you are complaining about this.

I also understand that STAB moves do less damage than super effective ones; I'm not stupid. I'm saying that the fact that they are not STAB moves demeans their effectiveness of being examples. Surviving a Hammer Arm (hi, use the more accurate option please...) from Metagross isn't nearly the same thing as surviving one from, say, Conkeldurr, who gets STAB on the move. I know that super effective attacks do more damage.

OreoMaster said:
Also the fact that some of the Pokemon aren't in OU and the attacks used are never used in competitive battling isn't a problem. They are still extremely powerful Pokemon(stronger than OU Pokemon) and they still use STAB powerful attacks. So if a Blissey can survive their super powerful STAB attacks then it can easily take a hit from an OU Pokemon which is weaker than Slaking and doesn't use attacks with 150 BP.

...ok. I don't even know what that said. ~

OreoMaster said:
Oh and Rampardos doesn't OHKO her. I don't know what you did there but it really doesn't. Mind you, Rampardos doesn't hold an item.

Ok. This is the calc I use. Rampardos with any kind of boosting item (ie. not choice scarf because scarf rampardos is garbage) will OHKO Blissey after SR damage (Jolly LO Head Smash: 690-813 (96.63 - 113.86%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock). Even an Adamant Choice Scarf set has a 60% chance to OHKO it after SR. Plus, Rampardos gets Superpower, which obviously cleanly OHKOes Blissey. Why wouldn't Rampardos hold an item? Are we playing Pokemon without items, now?

OreoMaster said:
Hammer Arm(a Non-STAB yet Super Effective attack) LO Metagross deals 81% - 95.5% damage. After SR, yes it can KO her. But I said before that we are talking only about the moves themselves. No SR,Sandstorm etc

You always have to assume SR or at least one layer of Spikes is up. Entry hazards are far too central to the metagame to simply ignore them. If you don't, you're really, really unaware of competitive Pokemon.

OreoMaster said:
And I used Cross Chop because everyone knows that a Superpower from Scizor OHKOs Blissey. It's no use stating the obvious.

What game is it that you're playing where you can decide what every Pokemon runs? I'd like to play it.

Let's use relevant examples, son. No one in their right mind uses Cross Chop Scizor; why use it as an example?

OreoMaster said:
Um, I don't know why you are underestimating the damage a non-STAB, Super Effective attack can do to Blissey. Actually an attack that is STAB yet not SE will do less damage than an attack(same BP) that is SE yet not STAB.
The only way for an attack to be both STAB and SE against Blissey is a Fighting Pokemon using a Fighting attack. In this case, I made it clearer than water that you should not even think about leaving her in and that she would never endure it.

So your complaints about the attacks being non-STAB is kinda moot.

What? I don't even understand what you said here

OreoMaster said:
tj4bigred, yes what is so odd about an unexpected physical attack? You know, not everyone is your typical smogon-movesets-for-ever battler. Some can get more creative and original. So he switches in a Pokemon that you would never suspect about using physical attacks. Yet there it goes and uses Stone Edge(example). See? It is unexpected. I never said leaving you Blissey in physical attackers.

wat

OreoMaster said:
Barely surviving is certainly better than dying. At least it can get the chance to switch in when a special attacker is in and use Softboiled or be passed a Wish or use Softboiled in the same turn so as to regain health and then switch back or even use Counter to kill the opponent.

Anyway, I am not trying too hard. I am just arguing with you and others.

bringing blissey down to the point that entry hazards KO it upon switching in or that your special attacker can KO it will certainly leave a large impression on blissey and make it that much more difficult for the team to utilize her strengths

you're "not trying too hard"? you're eliminating examples based on personal fantasy (scizor using cross chop?) and trying to set up this argument so that you're always right (entry hazards don't count?). plus, people can just set up on blissey (lucario can just swords dance up on it while it does little in return and then OHKO with a +2 close combat).

YES blissey lives some physical hits but like i said earlier, it's 2HKOed by every prominent physical attack in the game. it's not a demigod of pokemon or whatever you're trying to say

Dark Azelf · May 22, 2012

Vrai pretty much said everything. Regardless im more concerned about the fact that no one has pointed out that Scizor doesnt even get Cross Chop...lol. =/

tj4bigred · May 22, 2012

Dark Azelf said:
Regardless im more concerned about the fact that no one has pointed out that Scizor doesnt even get Cross Chop...lol. =/

Scizor with Force Palm or Double Kick would be awesome. =P

To be fair, Blissey only takes 71.15% - 83.75% from Max Attack Adamant LO Iron Fist-boosted Hammer Arm from Arbok. It's pretty much the greatest Pokemon ever.

Anti · May 22, 2012

First of all, we are not arguing about nothing. Arguing about nothing would be discussing whether Blissey can take a special attack,not physical. The whole point is to show whether Blissey can withstand an unexpected strong physical hit and survive so as to either use Softboiled and switch out or use Counter and kill the foe.

...Except we all know Blissey can take a lot of physical attacks. We're clearly arguing about nothing. It's true.

It's no use stating the obvious.

I will leave you to deduce the unintentional but undoubtedly fun irony of this sentence.

donavannj · May 22, 2012

Sir, were you even aware of the competitive scene in Generations III and IV? Blissey was one of the most popular walls of that time period!

Arguing that Blissey is a pretty good wall is like saying New York is a colossally massive city: it's common knowledge that doesn't need to be stated. Even I, one who has never been much for competitive battling, know that fact quite well.

OreoMaster · May 23, 2012

Vrai said:
Hi. Blissey can tank some physical hits, yes. Skarmory can tank some special attacks, too (Standard LO Starmie Thunderbolt vs SpD Skarmory: 206-244 (61.67 - 73.05%) -- guaranteed 2HKO). And so can Gliscor (LO Alakazam Psychic vs standard Gliscor: 249-294 (70.33 - 83.05%) -- guaranteed 2HKO). Jirachi can tank some physical hits, too (Choice Band Terrakion vs SpD Jirachi: 292-345 (72.27 - 85.39%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)!

My point: What are you arguing? EVERY wall in the game can tank some non-STAB moves, even when they aren't EVed to handle them. Blissey is a good wall, yes. People know that. Blissey is reliably 2HKOed by every physical attack in the game. Living one or two doesn't make it some demigod of Pokemon, sorry.

Anyway, since you seem to like arguing, I'm okay with that. I'll dismantle your argument.

Vrai, I didn't start the whole thing just to make Blissey look like a super-Pokemon or something. But, I get quite upset when people are underestimating Blissey's ability to at least survive physical hits. Everyone says that she is defensively wimpy and is OHKOed by any physical attack. I didn't say she is the only one that can survive attacks she wasn't built to. It's just that, as soon as someone takes a glance at that miserable Def, he automatically forgets her ginormous HP.

I also understand that STAB moves do less damage than super effective ones; I'm not stupid. I'm saying that the fact that they are not STAB moves demeans their effectiveness of being examples. Surviving a Hammer Arm (hi, use the more accurate option please...) from Metagross isn't nearly the same thing as surviving one from, say, Conkeldurr, who gets STAB on the move. I know that super effective attacks do more damage.

But, I made it clear from the word go and I admitted it that she CAN'T take STAB Fighting attacks. She may survive a SE non-STAB Fighting attack but not a STAB SE Fighting one. So, let's forget about this. There is nothing to argue about since we both agree that can't take a STAB Fighting attack.

...ok. I don't even know what that said. ~

Okay, what exactly tortured your brain here? You previously stated that the Pokemon I used in my calculations aren't OU and nobody ever uses Giga Impact on Slaking. Yes, this is true. But, if Blissey can survive a STAB Giga Impact(150 BP) from a Slaking(His Att is higher than any OU Pokemon) then she can certainly survive any non-boosted, STAB attacks from any OU Pokemon, except Fighting I repeat. We are talking about Blissey withstanding a Pokemon's attacks. So I used the most extreme examples of raw attacking power to show her true defensive capabilities.

Ok. This is the calc I use. Rampardos with any kind of boosting item (ie. not choice scarf because scarf rampardos is garbage) will OHKO Blissey after SR damage (Jolly LO Head Smash: 690-813 (96.63 - 113.86%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock). Even an Adamant Choice Scarf set has a 60% chance to OHKO it after SR. Plus, Rampardos gets Superpower, which obviously cleanly OHKOes Blissey. Why wouldn't Rampardos hold an item? Are we playing Pokemon without items, now?

Okay, Rampardos with Head Smash holding an item can kill her. But, I told you it's without an item. No, we are not talking about Pokemon without items but this examples with Rampardos was too much. I mean, few Pokemon can survive it's rough attacking force so you can't expect Blissey to do so. Yet, she can survive the hit itself if it's not boosted by LO. And, yes I have battled people who used Choice Scarf and even Focus Sash on him.

You always have to assume SR or at least one layer of Spikes is up. Entry hazards are far too central to the metagame to simply ignore them. If you don't, you're really, really unaware of competitive Pokemon.

I am not unaware. That's just not my aim. I started the topic to demonstrate that Blissey can take physical attacks decently well. Not whether she survives after SR and 3 layers of Spikes followed by an attack and Sandstorm. She can't survive all those. Yet, you can always Rapid Spin the hazards away.

What game is it that you're playing where you can decide what every Pokemon runs? I'd like to play it.

Let's use relevant examples, son. No one in their right mind uses Cross Chop Scizor; why use it as an example?

Well, as I said before, if Blissey can take a Cross Chop from Scizor then it can take his STAB attacks much, much better.

What? I don't even understand what you said here

Forget about it.

wat

Oh, that's harder than I expected it to be. Unexpected physical attack. Which part of the sentence didn't you get? Someone switches in Swampert. You think it's going to use SR or something but he straight forward attacks you with STAB EQ. That's an unexpected physical attack.

bringing blissey down to the point that entry hazards KO it upon switching in or that your special attacker can KO it will certainly leave a large impression on blissey and make it that much more difficult for the team to utilize her strengths

you're "not trying too hard"? you're eliminating examples based on personal fantasy (scizor using cross chop?) and trying to set up this argument so that you're always right (entry hazards don't count?). plus, people can just set up on blissey (lucario can just swords dance up on it while it does little in return and then OHKO with a +2 close combat).

YES blissey lives some physical hits but like i said earlier, it's 2HKOed by every prominent physical attack in the game. it's not a demigod of pokemon or whatever you're trying to say

Still, it's better to be there than dead and useless. What are you trying to get across? Is a fainted Blissey better than a barely alive one, which still has the chance to be revived?
To finish this up, I don't base on personal fantasy. I say that Blissey can survive hits themselves. Not with extra, indirect damage. Oh well, I explained this before.

Vrai pretty much said everything. Regardless im more concerned about the fact that no one has pointed out that Scizor doesnt even get Cross Chop...lol. =/

Hahaha I just put it in the calc and it accepted it. I don't know all of Scizor's attacks out by heart. Anyway, Blissey still survives. Even if he can't use that.

Scizor with Force Palm or Double Kick would be awesome. =P

To be fair, Blissey only takes 71.15% - 83.75% from Max Attack Adamant LO Iron Fist-boosted Hammer Arm from Arbok. It's pretty much the greatest Pokemon ever.

So funny :)

...Except we all know Blissey can take a lot of physical attacks. We're clearly arguing about nothing. It's true.

You should then say it from the beginning and not start arguing about it.

I will leave you to deduce the unintentional but undoubtedly fun irony of this sentence.

Haha Okay this made me laugh :D

Vrai · May 23, 2012

...what is the purpose of this thread? If all you meant to say was that "hey cool look guys Blissey can take a few physical hits" that's cool and all but I think we have all come to that conclusion and thus can move on from whatever stupid argument is going on here. I apologize for whatever semi-hostile attitude i took for that post and yeah (also a post like this probably would have been better made in the DCC thread!)

also just re-echoing what i said in the very first paragraph of my response: Blissey isn't alone in the ability to tank hits that it wasn't supposed to (i gave you some examples), and it's definitely not underrated in that manner. anyone who says "blissey dies to a poke" or whatever phrase you used in the OP is clearly ignorant to the metagame and blissey's potential

also if you're impressed by blissey's ability to take physical hits, go take a look at chansey

also apologizing for my random capitalization/not capitalization i'm feeling sort of wonky

Musica · May 23, 2012

So, in conclusion, Blissey can take a Physical hit and survive BUT in some cases, cannot do anything after that but switch out. If it gets a hit that lessens its HP more than 50%, it should switch out or try to use Toxic, T-Wave or anything annoying before it dies. Following the thread title... Again, no, Blissey is not underrated. It's a team of six (in most cases) and Blissey is just one out of those six so there should be a lot of support (and love!) from its fellow Pokemon, especially if it's carrying Wish! Who wouldn't want half of Blissey's HP to be healed. It's almost like using a Max Potion! Wish Blissey is cool, but that's another story and a off-topic with the thread :D

OreoMaster · May 23, 2012

Okay the topic is pretty much over. Vrai, the thread was about what the title says. I wondered if you people also considered Blissey as frail as a kitten physically, because there are many people who do so. Anyway nothing else to discuss.

Oh and Vrai, your apologizes are accepted. I can understand why you got angry/irritated/hostile... Your nature is Adamant. Change that to Timid or Bashful!

wolf · May 23, 2012

OreoMaster said:
Anyway nothing else to discuss.

There was nothing to discuss in the first place. "Blissey can survive most physical attacks." What about it? What is there to discuss? No one disagrees that she take most physical attacks and not faint; you are just arguing over nothing. It's like posting a thread saying "Skarmory has base 140 defense." Okay...? There is nothing to argue, because it's a fact. Anyway, closing this for reasons stated before.

Isn't Blissey kinda underrated in competitive battling?

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