Competitive Team Questions (and Incomplete Team Help)

Team help! Electric/water

I need to make a team that consists of no higher then level 50, and no legendaries with rotom and phione as exceptions. This is a generation 4 competition.I'm a bit stumped since my old team was mostly level 100's and 5 of them were legendary.

So i'm starting to form this team based around electric and water types. So far i have

For sure:
Raichu: Knows surf, volt tackle, tail whip (-_-) and thunderwave. The surf will devestate unsuspecting ground types >:)

Contemplating:
Phione
Ludicolo: for rain dish effect
Clefable: for the move "follow me" to defend shedinja
Shedinja: I could either have clefable use follow me or save until i suspect my opponent has no more moves that effect it
Jolteon:decent electric type that can learn rain dance to help out ludicolo
Magnetric:lightning rod ability
Slowking:meh, i think it's good, right?

What do you think? Be honest. I'm really not good at making non legendary partys, and id rather be criticized then end up losing my competition :P

pinta77 said:

I need to make a team that consists of no higher then level 50, and no legendaries with rotom and phione as exceptions. This is a generation 4 competition.I'm a bit stumped since my old team was mostly level 100's and 5 of them were legendary.

So i'm starting to form this team based around electric and water types. So far i have

For sure:
Raichu: Knows surf, volt tackle, tail whip (-_-) and thunderwave. The surf will devestate unsuspecting ground types >:)

Contemplating:
Phione
Ludicolo: for rain dish effect
Clefable: for the move "follow me" to defend shedinja
Shedinja: I could either have clefable use follow me or save until i suspect my opponent has no more moves that effect it
Jolteon:decent electric type that can learn rain dance to help out ludicolo
Magnetric:lightning rod ability
Slowking:meh, i think it's good, right?

What do you think? Be honest. I'm really not good at making non legendary partys, and id rather be criticized then end up losing my competition :P

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I'll assume this is an OU team because Jolteon is one of the proposed Pokemon. And is this a Doubles Team? Because you mentioned Follow Me protecting Shedinja.

While Surf Raichu seems tempting to use, the event Pikachu from PBR always come with a Hardy nature, so Raichu will only tie-speed with neutral base 100s; Raichu really likes the Speed boosts that Timid, Jolly, Hasty and Naive bring. IMO, Lanturn might be a better alternative; even though it has lower offenses and Speed than Raichu, it has a good support movepool:
-Substitute
-Charge Beam
-Hydro Pump/Surf
-Ice Beam
Nature: Modest
EVs: 52 HP/252 SAtk/148 SDef/56 Spe
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb

or
-Thunder Wave
-Confuse Ray
-Thunderbolt/Discharge
-Surf/Ice Beam
Nature: Calm
EVs: 36 HP/220 Def/252 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb

(the reason why I suggested Lanturn is because its Water and Electric moves get STAB)

Don't even bother with Phione. It's just a worse Manaphy. It has 80 stats all-round, and 80 is only an average stat. It also has a worse movepool than Manaphy.

Definitely use Ludicolo. It can either go offensive or defensive, whichever suits your fancy:
-Rain Dance
-Surf/Hydro Pump
-Grass Knot/Energy Ball
-Ice Beam
Nature: Modest
EVs: 60 HP/252 SAtk/196 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Damp Rock
Ability: Swift Swim

or
-Substitute
-Leech Seed
-Surf/Grass Knot
-Protect/Toxic/Rain Dance
Nature: Calm
EVs: 232 HP/216 SDef/60 Spe
Item: Leftovers/Damp Rock
Ability: Rain Dish

Don't even try using Clefable in standard play; while it has a good offensive and supporting movepool, as well as Magic Guard, Togekiss can do what it does, only better:
-Thunder Wave/Body Slam
-Air Slash
-Roost
-Nasty Plot/Substitute/Aura Sphere/Follow Me (last one if doubles)
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP/188 Def/68 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace

or
-Encore
-Wish/Roost
-Air Slash
-Thunder Wave/Body Slam/Aura Sphere/Follow Me (last one if doubles)
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 HP/20 Def/236 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace

Shedinja needs loads of support to even be useful; without that, it's just plain useless. Starmie or Kingdra are better alternatives over it because they hit harder than Shedinja does and both are more useful in general:

Starmie:
-Hydro Pump/Surf
-Thunderbolt
-Ice Beam
-Recover/Rapid Spin
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SAtk/4 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure

or
-Hydro Pump/Surf
-Thunderbolt
-Rapid Spin
-Recover
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 HP/4 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure

or
-Hydro Pump/Surf
-Ice Beam
-Thunderbolt
-Trick
Nature: Timid/Modest
EVs: 252 SAtk/4 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Choice Specs/Choice Scarf
Ability: Natural Cure

Kingdra:
-Dragon Dance
-Waterfall
-Outrage
-Rest
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 144 HP/160 Atk/40 SDef/164 Spe
Item: Chesto Berry
Ability: Swift Swim

or
-Substitute
-Dragon Dance
-Waterfall
-Outrage
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Item: Leftovers/Lum Berry

or
-Rain Dance
-Waterfall
-Hydro Pump/Surf
-Draco Meteor
Nature: Rash/Mild
EVs: 208 Atk/136 SAtk/164 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Damp Rock
Ability: Swift Swim

or
-Dragon Dance
-Waterfall
-Outrage
-Hydro Pump/Ice Beam
Nature: Naughty/Naive
EVs: 252 Atk/24 SAtk/232 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Lum Berry

or
-Rain Dance
-Surf/Hydro Pump
-Dragon Pulse
-Signal Beam/Hidden Power (Electric)
Nature: Modest
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Damp Rock/Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim

or
-Dragon Dance
-Rain Dance
-Waterfall
-Outrage
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 180 HP/252 Atk/76 Spe
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim

Jolteon's a decent choice:
-Thunderbolt
-Shadow Ball
-Hidden Power (Ice/Grass)
-Baton Pass
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SAtk/4 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Choice Specs

or
-Charge Beam
-Thunderbolt
-Shadow Ball
-Hidden Power (Grass/Ice)
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SAtk/4 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb

or
-Substitute
-Baton Pass
-Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power (Grass/Ice)
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SAtk/4 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Leftovers

Don't bother with Manectric; Jolteon can do whatever it does better, even though Flamethrower and Lightningrod in double battles set it apart.

Slowbro is a better alternative over Slowking; its defensive stats are more suited towards checking Fighting Pokemon; Slowking can't really check them well:
-Surf
-Psychic
-Slack Off
-Thunder Wave/Toxic/Light Screen
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Own Tempo

or
-Calm Mind
-Surf
-Slack Off/Rest
-Psychic/Sleep Talk
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP/176 Def/80 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Own Tempo

or
-Surf
-Psychic
-Grass Knot/Slack Off
-Trick
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SAtk
Item: Choice Specs
Ability: Own Tempo

Rotom-W is another Pokemon to consider because of its access to Hydro Pump:
-Thunderbolt
-Shadow Ball
-Hydro Pump/Hidden Power (Ice)
-Trick
Nature: Modest/Timid
EVs: 252 SAtk/4 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Choice Specs/Choice Scarf

or
-Rain Dance
-Thunder
-Hydro Pump
-Shadow Ball/Hidden Power (Ice)
Nature: Modest/Timid
EVs: 252 SAtk/4 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Damp Rock/Life Orb/Leftovers

Whoh very helpful! Thank you. I have some questios:comments though.

So ya, Shedinja isn't all that great, but would he be worth having in the party on the off chance I ko all pokemon that can effect him, or is the risk/reward just not there?

Also, I have diamond version. Is it possible to get Rotom Water form? Or at least the rotom water moves?

pinta77 said:

Whoh very helpful! Thank you. I have some questios:comments though.

So ya, Shedinja isn't all that great, but would he be worth having in the party on the off chance I ko all pokemon that can effect him, or is the risk/reward just not there?

Also, I have diamond version. Is it possible to get Rotom Water form? Or at least the rotom water moves?

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Wash Rotom, as well as the other Rotom appliances, are only accessible in Platinum and beyond.

Like I said, Shedinja needs loads of support to be even useful. It needs Rapid Spin support to get entry hazards off the field so that it won't die to Spikes/Toxic Spikes/Stealth Rock when it enters battle. It also needs teammates that can take out its counters, mainly Pursuit, Toxic, Will-o-Wisp and Leech Seed users. Your team doesn't look like it has any of those things.

Alright. Well thank you so much. This was very helpful, I appriciate it a lot =)

What's a good Lead for a RU Rain Dance team?

Want to make one after my UU team and I'm thinking...

Fafiq said:

What's a good Lead for a RU Rain Dance team?

Want to make one after my UU team and I'm thinking...

Click to expand...

Uxie is a good Rain Dance lead because of its high defenses and good Speed for a wall:
-Rain Dance
-U-turn/Memento
-Stealth Rock
-Heal Bell/Psychic
Nature: Impish/Bold
EVs: 252 HP/240 Def/16 Spe
Item: Damp Rock

If you want a more offensive alternative, go with Mesprit. It's not as bulky or fast as Uxie is, but it hits harder:
-Rain Dance
-Psychic
-Thunder
-Healing Wish/U-turn
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 HP/252 SAtk/4 Spe
Item: Damp Rock

Is it possible to find out what any pokemon has? I have this Latios I plan to use for battling but I got it in a trade. Lv 40. When i caught Latias it was 35 when I got her. Not sure what level Latios starts when caught.

AdrianD said:

Is it possible to find out what any pokemon has? I have this Latios I plan to use for battling but I got it in a trade. Lv 40. When i caught Latias it was 35 when I got her. Not sure what level Latios starts when caught.

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I'm not sure what you mean by that, but if you're referring to the level at the time the Pokemon was caught, it should be displayed right in its summary. In Latios' case, if it was initially caught in SoulSilver, it should be caught at level 35; if it was initially caught via event in HeartGold, it should be level 40. If it was initially caught in Black 2, it should be level 68.

PlatinumDude said:

I'm not sure what you mean by that, but if you're referring to the level at the time the Pokemon was caught, it should be displayed right in its summary. In Latios' case, if it was initially caught in SoulSilver, it should be caught at level 35; if it was initially caught via event in HeartGold, it should be level 40. If it was initially caught in Black 2, it should be level 68.

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Duh, Shouldve read it. It can be caught in Black 2??? Thats awesome. another reason to get B2

Also I was talking about its EV stats -_- fail.

New question. Going to plan using Latios. Rash nature. Planning to do this set

Recover/Psycho shift
Recover/ Reflect
Luster Purge
Psychic

Ev Sp. Atk 252
Hp 128
Spd 130 Might make this higher Still deciding. Want some thoughts

AdrianD said:

Duh, Shouldve read it. It can be caught in Black 2??? Thats awesome. another reason to get B2

Also I was talking about its EV stats -_- fail.

New question. Going to plan using Latios. Rash nature. Planning to do this set

Recover/Psycho shift
Recover/ Reflect
Luster Purge
Psychic

Ev Sp. Atk 252
Hp 128
Spd 130 Might make this higher Still deciding. Want some thoughts

Click to expand...

Latios needs all the Speed it can get to compensate for the lost Speed from using Rash. Rash takes away from Latios' good Special Defense slightly, but at least it's an alternative if you don't want to spend loads of time going for a Timid/Modest Latios.

Regarding the set itself, Latios' sets lean towards a sweeping role; Latias can handle defensive sets better. Latios is better with using Calm Mind + 3 attacks (or 2 attacks + Recover), Life Orb + 4 attacks (or 3 attacks + Recover), Dual Screens + Memento, or a Choice set. Latios has a good movepool to choose from, so you can pick Draco Meteor or Dragon Pulse as your main STAB move, then fill the last 3 slots with coverage options that you need. While Luster Purge is tempting to use because it's Latios' signature move, it's not worth using because it has less PP and power than Psychic. Latios is also walled by Dark Pokemon currently.

PlatinumDude said:

Latios needs all the Speed it can get to compensate for the lost Speed from using Rash. Rash takes away from Latios' good Special Defense slightly, but at least it's an alternative if you don't want to spend loads of time going for a Timid/Modest Latios.

Regarding the set itself, Latios' sets lean towards a sweeping role; Latias can handle defensive sets better. Latios is better with using Calm Mind + 3 attacks (or 2 attacks + Recover), Life Orb + 4 attacks (or 3 attacks + Recover), Dual Screens + Memento, or a Choice set. Latios has a good movepool to choose from, so you can pick Draco Meteor or Dragon Pulse as your main STAB move, then fill the last 3 slots with coverage options that you need. While Luster Purge is tempting to use because it's Latios' signature move, it's not worth using because it has less PP and power than Psychic. Latios is also walled by Dark Pokemon currently.

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How does Latios lose speed when Rash nature is (+Sp atk) (-Sp def)
and considering that Latios is Psychic wouldnt he still get the STAB with Psychic moves?

AdrianD said:

How does Latios lose speed when Rash nature is (+Sp atk) (-Sp def)
and considering that Latios is Psychic wouldnt he still get the STAB with Psychic moves?

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I'm aware of the Rash nature, but what I'm saying is that most, if not all, Latios run a Timid nature to outspeed as much Pokemon as possible. Assuming 31 IVs and 252 EVs, a Rash/Modest/Mild Latios has 319 Speed at level 100, which means that it gets outpaced by base 100 Speed Pokemon that use Hasty, Naive, Timid or Jolly.

And yes, Latios does get STAB from Psychic. It has 2 Psychic-typed moves, hence why I said that its current set is walled by Dark Pokemon.

Well im sure that stuck with this latios w rash. should i ev max its speed? then go sp atk and hp. Should mix psychic and dragon move or stay with a straight move set?

AdrianD said:

Well im sure that stuck with this latios w rash. should i ev max its speed? then go sp atk and hp. Should mix psychic and dragon move or stay with a straight move set?

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It's better to use offensive sets with Latios (Calm Mind, Life Orb, Choice), given its base stats.

PlatinumDude said:

It's better to use offensive sets with Latios (Calm Mind, Life Orb, Choice), given its base stats.

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If the stats help

HP 120
Atk 87
Def 71
Sp Atk 125
Sp Def 89
Spd 94

AdrianD said:

If the stats help

HP 120
Atk 87
Def 71
Sp Atk 125
Sp Def 89
Spd 94

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Latios was untrained by the time you posted this, right? And by base stats, I meant base 130 Special Attack, base 110 Speed, that sort of stuff.

And in that case, go ahead and EV train Latios.

PlatinumDude said:

Latios was untrained by the time you posted this, right? And by base stats, I meant base 130 Special Attack, base 110 Speed, that sort of stuff.

And in that case, go ahead and EV train Latios.

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Yes its untrained. What would you suggest the Ev Draw should be?