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1st Gen I honestly think that Gen 1 is horrible

895
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    • Seen Apr 22, 2018
    I agree with most of what you said, Imperator.

    That being said, while I still think that playing RBY has value, it does seem like high time for another remake (or perhaps a sequel set primarily in Kanto). I personally like Kanto (it's probably my second-favorite region, after Johto), and I feel like it could definitely be fleshed out a bit more with XY graphics and mechanics. A Yellow remake seems unlikely to ever happen, since it was so tied in with the anime, but given the recent game-per-year trend, an RB remake doesn't seem out of the question.

    The new timeline established by ORAS makes a sequel an impossibility, now. Neither RBY/GSC or FRLG/HGSS exist in that timeline, and you can't have a sequel without a prequel, first.

    As for Yellow vs RB, I'd accept another paired game remake, but only if A) we get Blue instead of Green (which has zero nostalgia for anyone outside of Japan), and B) Yellow elements are mixed in (like HGSS included Crystal elements).
     
    23,320
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    I've seen better sprites from games that are 20 years older.
    Can you elaborate on this statemant? All I can think of in terms of other sprites are those from The Final Fantasy Legend and they look terrible xD

    Tbh. I really like the simplistic design of the games, which also includes the sprites. There will never be a Pokemon game that's as close to the original concept of Pokemon and yet so simplistic, than the gen 1 games. No fancy movesets, no powercreep, no stupid timelines (sorry, but I really don't care about which games come before or after whatever game and what game is in which dimension, etc. pp.) and other mechanics that made the games more complicated.
    Granted, the first games where coded and balanced terribly, which lead to a lot of problems, something that fortunately was fixed in later games. But they still have their own charme which makes me want to play them again once in a while.
     
    253
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    • Seen Jan 2, 2016
    Can you elaborate on this statemant? All I can think of in terms of other sprites are those from The Final Fantasy Legend and they look terrible xD

    Tbh. I really like the simplistic design of the games, which also includes the sprites. There will never be a Pokemon game that's as close to the original concept of Pokemon and yet so simplistic, than the gen 1 games. No fancy movesets, no powercreep, no stupid timelines (sorry, but I really don't care about which games come before or after whatever game and what game is in which dimension, etc. pp.) and other mechanics that made the games more complicated.
    Granted, the first games where coded and balanced terribly, which lead to a lot of problems, something that fortunately was fixed in later games. But they still have their own charme which makes me want to play them again once in a while.

    Final fantasy Legend sprites indeed looked terrible, but a vast majority of older games such as mario, mega man and many more had better sprites. Also people knock off the gameboy as a very limited game but it never had to affect the sprites. Another great game is Link's awakening which did an amazing job for all the sprites.

    Regardless people defend Gen 1 as if their talking to people who have no idea how it was like. For example, the argument of "simplistic" sprites. I really hate getting into this topic when it comes to gen 1 because people who defend always say why they think its the problem.

    The problem isnt "simplistic", the sprites have always been simplistic even from Gen 2. In fact, a lot of the sprites in Gen 1 tried too hard.to be detailed. Rather than allowing the colors to contrast, they attempted to add in as many shades as possible. Unlike gen 2, which only added two colors not including black and white.

    I admit Gen 1 has some charm....and that is story, anything else is just nostalgia. I cant even help myself to even try to complete the pokedex. Every pokemon I saw, I was disgusted with it.
    blastoise__made_to_print_fit__by_dnzgames-d59n5ge.png


    This is not simple....but ill say this, if they took more time figuring out their designs, proportions, and how much shading they should use, then yes simplicity wouldve saved the sprites.


    Keep in mind pokemon itself is the driving force of the game. And keep in mind that pokemon gen 1 has some poorly designed pokemon.

    Playing the gen 2 mod of pokemon red/blue enhances the game significantly.
     
    23,320
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    Final fantasy Legend sprites indeed looked terrible, but a vast majority of older games such as mario, mega man and many more had better sprites. Also people knock off the gameboy as a very limited game but it never had to affect the sprites. Another great game is Link's awakening which did an amazing job for all the sprites.
    Let's not start comparing NES and GB as there are too many differences between those two, like screen resolution and color depth. But I'll give you that Links Awakening had some good artwork implemented into the game. Then again: there's a difference between Nintendo as a big games and consoles producing company and Gamefreak, who where relatively new to the market. Originally the games weren't even intended to be released outside of Japan.
    Regardless people defend Gen 1 as if their talking to people who have no idea how it was like. For example, the argument of "simplistic" sprites. I really hate getting into this topic when it comes to gen 1 because people who defend always say why they think its the problem.

    The problem isnt "simplistic", the sprites have always been simplistic even from Gen 2. In fact, a lot of the sprites in Gen 1 tried too hard.to be detailed. Rather than allowing the colors to contrast, they attempted to add in as many shades as possible. Unlike gen 2, which only added two colors not including black and white.
    Wait, what? I get that you're around since gen 1 was released, but are you implying that people who like the sprites and who actually try to find some arguments on why they like them, outside of the generic "nostalgia", are just a bunch of ignorant fools? You don't need to be an artist who fully understands how art works in order to be fascinated by a picture. The sprites work for me and that's all I need to get into the mood of playing the games.
     
    1,775
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  • The outdated battle mechanics make the games really unplayable in today's standards, and not to mention how horrendous the sprites from R/B are.
    This is all my opinion though, so feel free to disagree.

    Well it's a given - Gen 1 games definitely have some kind of charm, but they're so very, very old that they really can't hold up by today's standards - but that's the point. I think if you just emulate them on your phone, or play through to pass some time, they can still be enjoyable, but you still gotta take certain things into account like the fact that there are only 160 attacks, and to a much more significant point, the fact that the typing system is flawed. I'm relatively sure that when it comes to dual-typed Pokémon, only one of those types (i think the second?) is taken into account by the 'damage algorithm' or whatever you wanna call it. Unfortunately I can't think of any examples right now, but I know that in a recent playthrough of Red Version, I encountered something that flat out shouldn't have happened.

    I love the retro Pokémon games though, so if someone was looking for an experience SOMEWHAT closer to a modern Pokémon game, I'd definitely recommend GSC. The colours are amazing, the music is outstanding, and the battle system is drastically improved in a number of ways.
     

    atomtanned

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    • Seen Oct 17, 2022
    They did not age well, no. There were lots of glitches and errors in the games, and as many other have said, graphically they were behind even when they first came out. I am pretty old (27 now) and I was 11 when the games first were released. I can tell you that in some regards they were frustrating to play even them, but it was the concept that was captivating to me.

    I still have my old carts but I don't play them, sadly. Even my Game Boys didn't hold up (they both need speaker repairs, a pretty common problem). It's odd that people are justifying their poor aging by saying that these games are nearly 20 years old. I still play a LOT of games from my childhood. In fact, I have working NES, SNES, and N64 consoles, and I still play games on all 3 that are very enjoyable. Good graphics AREN'T a requirement to enjoy a game after the fact, but the glitchy, limited gameplay and honestly what looks like rushed sprite work does make them difficult to play now.

    I really enjoyed FRLG for this reason, though I think complaints about them skipping over other enhancements are valid. For me, a fresh coat of paint and the repair of some of those glitches were all RB needed to be really awesome games again. That said, I would LOVE a remake of these games in Gen VI setting.
     
    895
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    • Seen Apr 22, 2018
    I really enjoyed FRLG for this reason, though I think complaints about them skipping over other enhancements are valid. For me, a fresh coat of paint and the repair of some of those glitches were all RB needed to be really awesome games again.

    If you compare them to just Red/Blue, then, yes, FRLG probably are an improvement. You have a Bag that you don't have to constantly dump out every 20 items, and you can play as a girl.

    But, unfortunately, Yellow, Gold/Silver, Crystal, and Ruby/Sapphire all happened in-between Red/Blue and FRLG. Yellow gave us a following starter, harder Gym Leaders, and Pikachu's Beach. Gold/Silver gave us Day/Night, breeding, Berry trees, a cell phone, 100 new Pokémon (many of which were pre/evolutions of older ones), and a brand new region to expand off from Kanto. Crystal gave us a female PC, animated sprites, more involved Legendaries, and a Battle Tower. Ruby/Sapphire gave us Berry growing, contests, Dive, even more involved Legendaries, and a lot of new Pokémon (albeit, at the expense of many of the older ones.)

    Guess how many of those things FRLG had?

    And, what did FRLG bring to the table, anyways? A bunch of boring, useless islands? A worthless, intrusive help system? A "Fame Checker" that had no reward other than wasted time? Yawn.

    And, the graphics weren't even that great, not even for the time. (Admittedly, also true for RSE... The Gen 3 games had mediocre graphics, IMO.)

    If you want to play a Gen 1 that has (slightly) better graphics and more bugfixes, Yellow will serve you just fine (while actually changing things up from Red/Blue, storywise). If all you want is to see the region of Kanto, itself, in full color, then either GSC or HGSS are the way to go; both actually offer new things and use their respective handhelds' capabilities to their fullest.

    Gen 1 needs a new remake more than ever.
     

    Cerberus87

    Mega Houndoom, baby!
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  • The things that were good about 1st gen that still hold up well today are the region, as weird as it sounds, and the Pokémon roster.

    I used to think Kanto became outdated, but I really think it's a well designed region despite the limitations. It's one of the least linear regions in the series. What it lacks is natural wonders, but it's not such a big deal because it's supposed to be an industrial kind of region.

    The Pokémon roster is one of the best in the series, too. The only thing it doesn't have is Dark type Pokémon to fight Psychics, but it's not needed anymore with so many Bugs to hack away at Psychic types, as well as Gengar. If a modern remake existed, you could probably do fine against Sabrina by catching a Scyther or a Pinsir in the Safari Zone.

    Personally I don't care about a modern remake, and while I didn't like FRLG, I understood its point as a minimalistic remake. Sure it doesn't have a clock and you can't evolve Eevee into Espeon/Umbreon, but HGSS lacks the Moss/Icy Rocks and you can't evolve Eevee into Leafeon/Glaceon either, despite there being a perfect possibility of adding the Moss/Icy Rocks to Ilex Forest/Ice Path respectively. You can't evolve Magneton into Magnezone in the game either.

    I also don't care about Berries in my gameplay, and back when FRLG were released they even had limited use because we didn't have a lot of the currently used Berries in the metagame like the type-resistant Berries. The most important Berries in the 3rd gen metagame could be obtained either in FRLG itself (hidden tiles or Berry Forest) or in Colosseum/XD, so it's not like FRLG needed Berry Trees. The other Berries are irrelevant since FRLG doesn't have contests. Finally, it's been established in the games canon that Kanto doesn't have the kind of soil that allows Berries to grow (unlike Hoenn and Sinnoh). Even in GSC, you'd find very few Berry Trees in Kanto. In HGSS, Johto is retconned as a region where Berries don't easily grow either, because you need the Berry Pots to grow Berries and all the Berry trees from GSC have been replaced with Apricorn trees.

    Furthermore, if they remade 1st gen again, I wish they forgot about Yellow. The level curve in Yellow is atrocious, most of the gyms have boring rosters because of the anime imitation (so Koga has a zillion Venonats and a Venomoth for example), and the Pikachu is unnecessary. The reason why FRLG didn't have anything from Yellow, besides staying true to the originals, is that there wasn't anything interesting to salvage from that game. Maybe we could've had following Pokémon, but that isn't a must have feature. Pikachu wasn't the star of the game, so its friendship system wasn't necessary. The only story additions, Jessie/James/Meowth, were boring and easy fights. Starters giveaway wasn't needed/wanted, because the point of the game is to choose only one, and so on.
     
    895
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    • Seen Apr 22, 2018
    The Pokémon roster is one of the best in the series, too. The only thing it doesn't have is Dark type Pokémon to fight Psychics, but it's not needed anymore with so many Bugs to hack away at Psychic types, as well as Gengar. If a modern remake existed, you could probably do fine against Sabrina by catching a Scyther or a Pinsir in the Safari Zone.

    Remember that Gengar is WEAK to Psychic, and neither Scyther or Pinsir resist the type. (Now, Scyther's Evo does, but based on what you're saying, we shouldn't be "allowed" to use it in Gen 1 Kanto.) Plus, all of these Pokémon can only be obtained via either trade or the Safari Zone, which is a hassle for many people.

    Personally I don't care about a modern remake, and while I didn't like FRLG, I understood its point as a minimalistic remake. Sure it doesn't have a clock and you can't evolve Eevee into Espeon/Umbreon, but HGSS lacks the Moss/Icy Rocks and you can't evolve Eevee into Leafeon/Glaceon either, despite there being a perfect possibility of adding the Moss/Icy Rocks to Ilex Forest/Ice Path respectively. You can't evolve Magneton into Magnezone in the game either.

    But, what's the point of even having a remake if you have all of the same limitations of the original? If you wanted to play a game where Eevee could only evolve into three Pokémon, RBY already exist. What's the point of even playing FRLG if it's just the exact same thing with different graphics?

    A lot of us really wanted to experience Gen 1's story with things like Day/Night, newer Pokémon, and the other advancements GSC and RS brought to the table. FRLG robbed us of that.

    The other Berries are irrelevant since FRLG doesn't have contests.

    Which was a problem in and of itself. I'm no fan of contests, myself, but that was yet, another thing that was unnecessarily cut for the sake of "authenticity."

    Finally, it's been established in the games canon that Kanto doesn't have the kind of soil that allows Berries to grow (unlike Hoenn and Sinnoh). Even in GSC, you'd find very few Berry Trees in Kanto. In HGSS, Johto is retconned as a region where Berries don't easily grow either, because you need the Berry Pots to grow Berries and all the Berry trees from GSC have been replaced with Apricorn trees.

    Which was a stupid retcon, as Kanto and Johto were the very first regions to even HAVE Berries to begin with. Future remakes should fix this.

    Furthermore, if they remade 1st gen again, I wish they forgot about Yellow. The level curve in Yellow is atrocious, most of the gyms have boring rosters because of the anime imitation (so Koga has a zillion Venonats and a Venomoth for example), and the Pikachu is unnecessary. The reason why FRLG didn't have anything from Yellow, besides staying true to the originals, is that there wasn't anything interesting to salvage from that game. Maybe we could've had following Pokémon, but that isn't a must have feature. Pikachu wasn't the star of the game, so its friendship system wasn't necessary. The only story additions, Jessie/James/Meowth, were boring and easy fights. Starters giveaway wasn't needed/wanted, because the point of the game is to choose only one, and so on.

    Because, Sabrina having a Venomoth, and Blaine and Giovanni being massively underleveled was sooooo much better. :rolleyes2:

    Yellow may not mean much to you, but it was a very important game for a lot of us, and to ignore it is to ignore everyone who bought Yellow and saw it as the "definitive" version of Gen 1. Yellow was just as much a part of Gen 1 as Red/Blue, and it deserves to be acknowledged.
     

    Guest123123

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    Once something new comes out with improved features and mechanics, it makes me look at the old and say "How did I ever get through this?" It's not just like that for Pokemon, but things in general.

    When I first had a computer, I used Internet Explorer because it was already there and I was scared to download things because of possible viruses. I didn't think Internet Explorer was slow because it was all I knew so I didn't have a faster browser to compare it to, and I was happy just being able to use the Internet. When I became more knowledgeable about computer stuff and learned not all downloads risk viruses, I downloaded Firefox and then Chrome, and now that I have Chrome I can't go back to the other two because of how much better it is for me. That's basically everything for me.
     

    Cerberus87

    Mega Houndoom, baby!
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  • Remember that Gengar is WEAK to Psychic, and neither Scyther or Pinsir resist the type. (Now, Scyther's Evo does, but based on what you're saying, we shouldn't be "allowed" to use it in Gen 1 Kanto.) Plus, all of these Pokémon can only be obtained via either trade or the Safari Zone, which is a hassle for many people.

    Well considering the enemy doesn't have EVs, I think even Haunter could probably outspeed and KO Alakazam. I mentioned Scyther because for story purposes Scyther is every bit as good as Scizor, and Metal Coats are rare.

    Besides, nowadays we have online trading and people can help you get a Gengar/Scizor much easier. I hate trade evos, but it's a valid possibility.

    But, what's the point of even having a remake if you have all of the same limitations of the original? If you wanted to play a game where Eevee could only evolve into three Pokémon, RBY already exist. What's the point of even playing FRLG if it's just the exact same thing with different graphics?

    A lot of us really wanted to experience Gen 1's story with things like Day/Night, newer Pokémon, and the other advancements GSC and RS brought to the table. FRLG robbed us of that.

    FRLG isn't exactly the same. You have the new mechanics, for example. Charmander got a Steel type move to get past Brock. I think FRLG is the only game in the series where Charmander learns Metal Claw.

    Would it have been nice if FRLG had a clock? Yes it would. But I didn't miss day/night cycle when playing through it. And really, it's not a FRLG fault but 3rd gen fault. The sorry excuse for a clock RSE has isn't very nice either.

    I think GSC's implementation of the clock wasn't the best. If I wanted a Pidgey on my team, I'd be forced to play the game during the day, otherwise all I'd find would be Hoothoot. It was immersive, but an annoyance all the same. Daily events, waiting one day to get custom Poké Balls, haircuts, etc., certain events being only available on certain days, it's surely immersive but also very limiting. By skipping the clock, FRLG didn't have such hindrance. Notice how there are fewer events dependant on the day of the week in later games, also the lack of Pokémon exclusive to certain times of the day. HGSS is the only game where these were brought back, because it was a GSC remake. BW had seasonal differences, but they didn't prevent you from catching all Pokémon available, and XY has none of that nonsense. ORAS has day/night cycle but it seems to be purely cosmetic.

    As for the extra eeveelutions, I fail to see why they're so important. FRLG are perfectly playable with Vaporeon/Jolteon/Flareon only. The game offers you superior alternatives to Espeon (Starmie for example), and Umbreon is a defensive Pokémon that's not very easy to use in the story. Besides, you only get Eevee in Celadon and you'd need to build its friendship to evolve it into Espeon/Umbreon. You'd most probably need to level Eevee somewhat, skipping important moves in the process before evolving. For the story, it's certainly much easier to just stuff Eevee with a stone instead of trying to raise a weak Pokémon for a good chunk of the game.

    The only Pokémon that's really missed is Crobat. Not being able to evolve Golbat was a little stupid. But that's really the only one. The rest are trade evos and/or impractical to get (eeveelutions). Even HGSS had very few new evos you could reliably use, despite featuring them in the Johto Dex. I used Mamoswine in my only run, but to evolve Piloswine you need to make it relearn Ancientpower and there's only one easily obtainable Heart Scale before the E4. You can also evolve maybe Tangela, and Yanma is impractical unless you're lucky with a swarm. The others, only with items found in the Kanto part of the game, so post-League. I'm also pretty sure you can only get the Razor Claw and Razor Fang in the Battle Frontier. That's not to mention that you cannot evolve Magneton into Magnezone in the game.

    Which was a problem in and of itself. I'm no fan of contests, myself, but that was yet, another thing that was unnecessarily cut for the sake of "authenticity."

    But no one cares about Contests! :P Sure, they could've had something else like the Pokéathlon in HGSS. But I believe no one missed the Contests in FRLG.

    Which was a stupid retcon, as Kanto and Johto were the very first regions to even HAVE Berries to begin with. Future remakes should fix this.

    Stupid? The Berry Pots in HGSS were a godsend! The worst part of Berry growing in RSE and DPPt was keeping track of where you planted your Berries, and getting to the places themselves. In HGSS the Berries were always with you wherever you went. It was infinitely better. Even ORAS has a Berry farm like the one in XY.

    I personally don't use Berries during my runs of the games, so I don't mind not being able to get them.

    Because, Sabrina having a Venomoth, and Blaine and Giovanni being massively underleveled was sooooo much better. :rolleyes2:

    Venomoth makes sense somewhat because it can use Psychic attacks. It's better than Abra, at least.

    I didn't find Blaine and Giovanni to be underleveled. Usually I'm around their level when I reach them, which is just right. I tackle the E4 underleveled, too. FRLG's mistake was giving Giovanni a Rhyhorn instead of his Rhydon, I believe it's a mistake in the game, although one that doesn't matter a lot since both of them go down very easily with a Grass or a Water move.

    Yellow may not mean much to you, but it was a very important game for a lot of us, and to ignore it is to ignore everyone who bought Yellow and saw it as the "definitive" version of Gen 1. Yellow was just as much a part of Gen 1 as Red/Blue, and it deserves to be acknowledged.

    It did receive some acknowledgement because Red's team is basically the gift Pokémon he gets in Yellow, although that unfortunately made him the weakest Chamipon since Pikachu is so weak even with the Light Ball.
     
    253
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    • Seen Jan 2, 2016
    Let's not start comparing NES and GB as there are too many differences between those two, like screen resolution and color depth. But I'll give you that Links Awakening had some good artwork implemented into the game. Then again: there's a difference between Nintendo as a big games and consoles producing company and Gamefreak, who where relatively new to the market. Originally the games weren't even intended to be released outside of Japan.

    all the games i mentioned are in Gameboy as well. Mega man, Mega Man X, not only that but Wario land, and Link's Awakening were ALL game boy games. And also, Pokemon Gold/Silver were also compatible with the original Gameboy, so resolution has absolutely nothing to do with it. the only one that the gameboy couldn't play was Pokemon Crystal which was very packed and had animations.

    Wait, what? I get that you're around since gen 1 was released, but are you implying that people who like the sprites and who actually try to find some arguments on why they like them, outside of the generic "nostalgia", are just a bunch of ignorant fools? You don't need to be an artist who fully understands how art works in order to be fascinated by a picture. The sprites work for me and that's all I need to get into the mood of playing the games.

    If it works for "you" that's perfectly fine. And if you like them, i could care less. HOWEVER, I don't a particular reason to defend the artwork compared to the current sprites we see. For example: you mentioned you like them due to the "simplicity" when it doesn't hold much ground. In fact, Gen 1 really tries hard to be "detailed" when it came to the sprites.

    Hardware/software is also a bad excuse....the game boy is perfectly capable of handling well-designed, not-too intricate, 4 shade sprites. In fact what Gen 2 does is aim for "MORE" simplicity. In fact, some of the designs (such as Butterfree) were re-designed in Pokemon Yellow carried over to Gen 2.

    The one and "ONLY" excuse that is viable is the experience that Gamefreak had at the time. And that is it. The gameboy is perfectly capable of handling nice sprites that we see in Gen 2, also capable of handling nice-designed backsprites as well.
     
    17
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    • Seen Feb 4, 2015
    The outdated battle mechanics make the games really unplayable in today's standards, and not to mention how horrendous the sprites from R/B are.
    This is all my opinion though, so feel free to disagree.

    They are the classic games! think how limited the technology was back then!
     
    895
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    • Seen Apr 22, 2018
    Well considering the enemy doesn't have EVs, I think even Haunter could probably outspeed and KO Alakazam.

    Only if it's very overleveled, which is hard to do in Kanto. Otherwise, Haunter's dead.

    Besides, nowadays we have online trading and people can help you get a Gengar/Scizor much easier. I hate trade evos, but it's a valid possibility.

    ... Which doesn't exist in FRLG.

    FRLG isn't exactly the same. You have the new mechanics, for example. Charmander got a Steel type move to get past Brock. I think FRLG is the only game in the series where Charmander learns Metal Claw.

    Yes, the bad/annoying parts of Gen 3 mechanics--EVs and Natures. And, still no P/S Split or pretty graphics to make up for it. Yeah, I'll just stick with Yellow.

    Charmander never had that much difficulty getting past Brock in RB. Geodude and Onix didn't know any Rock attacks, and their Specials were horrifically low, so even a resisted Ember did a lot.

    (Now, Pikachu, on the other hand, had major problems, which is why Yellow gave you Mankey, made the Nidos learn Double Kick earlier, and made Butterfree learn Confusion earlier.)

    Would it have been nice if FRLG had a clock? Yes it would. But I didn't miss day/night cycle when playing through it. And really, it's not a FRLG fault but 3rd gen fault. The sorry excuse for a clock RSE has isn't very nice either.

    A crappy clock is better than no clock. These are remakes, so they were supposed to be modern, and modern Pokémon games have clocks. Otherwise, I'd just go play Yellow again.

    I think GSC's implementation of the clock wasn't the best. If I wanted a Pidgey on my team, I'd be forced to play the game during the day, otherwise all I'd find would be Hoothoot. It was immersive, but an annoyance all the same. Daily events, waiting one day to get custom Poké Balls, haircuts, etc., certain events being only available on certain days, it's surely immersive but also very limiting. By skipping the clock, FRLG didn't have such hindrance. Notice how there are fewer events dependant on the day of the week in later games, also the lack of Pokémon exclusive to certain times of the day. HGSS is the only game where these were brought back, because it was a GSC remake. BW had seasonal differences, but they didn't prevent you from catching all Pokémon available, and XY has none of that nonsense. ORAS has day/night cycle but it seems to be purely cosmetic.

    That's called realism. Owls usually don't appear during the day, and pigeons usually don't come out at night, so Hoothoot only being available at night, and Pidgey only being available during the day makes perfect sense. I love seeing a different mix of Pokémon on the same route on different times of the day, as well as having certain little things play out differently depending on the time of the day. It makes the game less boring, less predictable, and more realistic.

    As for the extra eeveelutions, I fail to see why they're so important. FRLG are perfectly playable with Vaporeon/Jolteon/Flareon only. The game offers you superior alternatives to Espeon (Starmie for example), and Umbreon is a defensive Pokémon that's not very easy to use in the story. Besides, you only get Eevee in Celadon and you'd need to build its friendship to evolve it into Espeon/Umbreon. You'd most probably need to level Eevee somewhat, skipping important moves in the process before evolving. For the story, it's certainly much easier to just stuff Eevee with a stone instead of trying to raise a weak Pokémon for a good chunk of the game.

    Because, people would've liked that option? Lots of things outclass the original trio, too, so why only cut Espeon and Umbreon? They evolved from a Gen 1 Pokémon and they very much existed at the time, so why suddenly pretend like they didn't exist? (And, act like GSC, in general, never happened?) Again, if I wanted to be strictly limited to just the first 151, I'd just play Yellow.

    Even HGSS had very few new evos you could reliably use, despite featuring them in the Johto Dex. I used Mamoswine in my only run, but to evolve Piloswine you need to make it relearn Ancientpower and there's only one easily obtainable Heart Scale before the E4. You can also evolve maybe Tangela, and Yanma is impractical unless you're lucky with a swarm. The others, only with items found in the Kanto part of the game, so post-League. I'm also pretty sure you can only get the Razor Claw and Razor Fang in the Battle Frontier. That's not to mention that you cannot evolve Magneton into Magnezone in the game.

    Which was a flaw of those games. ORAS finally got it right by including all of the later pre/evolutions of Hoenn Dex Pokémon, as well as retconning certain NPCs to have these later evos (like Wally, Phoebe, and Glacia).

    But no one cares about Contests! :P Sure, they could've had something else like the Pokéathlon in HGSS. But I believe no one missed the Contests in FRLG.

    Kanto badly needs some sort of extra side activity like all the other regions have. I can see why certain fans find Kanto "boring."

    Stupid? The Berry Pots in HGSS were a godsend! The worst part of Berry growing in RSE and DPPt was keeping track of where you planted your Berries, and getting to the places themselves. In HGSS the Berries were always with you wherever you went. It was infinitely better. Even ORAS has a Berry farm like the one in XY.

    True, but FRLG didn't even give you that much. Instead you had to either carry an unevolved Meowth around at all times or go to some stupid forest on those worthless postgame islands.

    I personally don't use Berries during my runs of the games, so I don't mind not being able to get them.

    Again, people would like the option. Modern Pokémon games should have modern features, such as Berries. Otherwise, they'd just continue to play the originals.

    Venomoth makes sense somewhat because it can use Psychic attacks. It's better than Abra, at least.

    Espeon is better than both, but oh, wait... :rolleyes2:

    I didn't find Blaine and Giovanni to be underleveled. Usually I'm around their level when I reach them, which is just right. I tackle the E4 underleveled, too.

    Just because you like to fight the E4 underleveled doesn't mean that everybody else should do the same. I absolutely hate being underleveled, myself, and the grinding is far worse in Red/Blue than it is in Yellow (which isn't exactly known for great grinding, itself).

    FRLG's mistake was giving Giovanni a Rhyhorn instead of his Rhydon, I believe it's a mistake in the game, although one that doesn't matter a lot since both of them go down very easily with a Grass or a Water move.

    But, Rhydon gives more EXP and is far less of an insult to your skill level. FRLG completely dumbed down the original games' difficulty level, as if they were made for preschoolers.

    It did receive some acknowledgement because Red's team is basically the gift Pokémon he gets in Yellow, although that unfortunately made him the weakest Chamipon since Pikachu is so weak even with the Light Ball.

    That also broke the continuity of the Gen 3-5 timeline, as Red's team made zero sense in the context of FRLG (which didn't include any of the Yellow gifts).
     

    Cerberus87

    Mega Houndoom, baby!
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  • Only if it's very overleveled, which is hard to do in Kanto. Otherwise, Haunter's dead.

    Well, if you give Sabrina a L50 Alakazam like she has in Yellow, she'll kill anything you throw at her. L43 as in FRLG is more manageable. Still, Sabrina was supposed to be That One Boss but the changes in stats after RBY made Alakazam much easier to take down. Anything fast with strong physical moves would kill it fast. Ok, maybe Haunter wouldn't be the ideal way to take her down, but the fact Kanto lacks Dark types isn't much of a deterrent.

    ... Which doesn't exist in FRLG.

    Weren't we both talking about a hypothetical 1st gen modern game? It would have online trading.

    Yes, the bad/annoying parts of Gen 3 mechanics--EVs and Natures. And, still no P/S Split or pretty graphics to make up for it. Yeah, I'll just stick with Yellow.

    I'd much rather use Charizard in FRLG than Yellow. In FRLG it has its great Sp.Atk. :P Early Flamethrower compared to RBY also makes the game a cakewalk.

    Charmander never had that much difficulty getting past Brock in RB. Geodude and Onix didn't know any Rock attacks, and their Specials were horrifically low, so even a resisted Ember did a lot.

    (Now, Pikachu, on the other hand, had major problems, which is why Yellow gave you Mankey, made the Nidos learn Double Kick earlier, and made Butterfree learn Confusion earlier.)

    You're right. Misty was the real problem.

    A crappy clock is better than no clock. These are remakes, so they were supposed to be modern, and modern Pokémon games have clocks. Otherwise, I'd just go play Yellow again.

    Again, if I wanted to be strictly limited to just the first 151, I'd just play Yellow.

    Otherwise, they'd just continue to play the originals.

    The problem is that the Pokémon series has a bit of planned obsolescence going on. The old games are left behind because they can't trade with the new ones, which isn't even a case with only RBY but also most of the later games. B2W2 for example had the servers shut down only a year after release because Nintendo wouldn't support the DS anymore. Today, since both RBY and FRLG are obsolete, you can choose which one you prefer, but back then it was a great thing to have a remake of the classic which was compatible with the latest games.

    Personally GSC could've benefitted from being "incompatible" with RBY but the time machine was a great idea and only way to complete the Pokédex in GSC.

    That's called realism. Owls usually don't appear during the day, and pigeons usually don't come out at night, so Hoothoot only being available at night, and Pidgey only being available during the day makes perfect sense. I love seeing a different mix of Pokémon on the same route on different times of the day, as well as having certain little things play out differently depending on the time of the day. It makes the game less boring, less predictable, and more realistic.

    I know that, but from a gameplay perspective it wasn't so hot. Future games with day/night system had few Pokémon exclusive to a time of the day. BW introduced the seasonal system but it doesn't prevent you from getting all Pokémon. Stuff like Cubchoo and Cryogonal is more common during the winter but doesn't disappear during other seasons.

    Also, me and my friends with Silver version had problems catching Ledyba because Ledyba was only available during the morning in Silver version. Of course, it wasn't such a big deal because Ledyba is one of the worst Pokémon in existence, even among the early bugs! But morning didn't last long and it was only available in the morning, which is a waste considering how forgettable it was. When I was a preteen, I studied during the morning and rarely played Pokémon in the weekends during the morning, so I didn't get many morning-exclusive things.

    Because, people would've liked that option? Lots of things outclass the original trio, too, so why only cut Espeon and Umbreon? They evolved from a Gen 1 Pokémon and they very much existed at the time, so why suddenly pretend like they didn't exist? (And, act like GSC, in general, never happened?) Again, if I wanted to be strictly limited to just the first 151, I'd just play Yellow.

    Well, Flareon was outclassed even in RBY, IMO. :P Vaporeon and Jolteon were very effective, though. I used a Jolteon in my last FireRed run and it was great. It's one of the best 1st gen Electric Pokémon.

    The problem with Espeon/Umbreon, like I said, is that in the Kanto games you get Eevee at L25 already. These forms evolve by friendship, so they take leveling and endless walking around. You'd be stuck with an Eevee for quite a bit of the game and Eevee would skip certain moves. Not to mention Eevee itself is quite weak. That's what I meant with there being better options. If you choose the stone evos you instantly get a strong Pokémon.

    Eevee had a problem in FRLG because it came at L25 so it skipped the first elemental moves. Flareon suffered the most, because there was no weak Fire TM to teach it and, without Ember, you'd be stuck with Fire Spin until high levels. They should've lowered the level you obtain Eevee in the game to 15.

    Which was a flaw of those games. ORAS finally got it right by including all of the later pre/evolutions of Hoenn Dex Pokémon, as well as retconning certain NPCs to have these later evos (like Wally, Phoebe, and Glacia).

    I pointed that out because you told me you liked HGSS.

    Kanto badly needs some sort of extra side activity like all the other regions have. I can see why certain fans find Kanto "boring."

    Well, it needs something useful, like the Pokéathlon, where you could get great prizes. Contests suck.

    True, but FRLG didn't even give you that much. Instead you had to either carry an unevolved Meowth around at all times or go to some stupid forest on those worthless postgame islands.

    Again, people would like the option. Modern Pokémon games should have modern features, such as Berries. Otherwise, they'd just continue to play the originals.

    But they had Berries, there were a few hidden ones throughout the region. However, Berries are consumable so people usually save them for competitive. I'd have liked the Berry Pots to appear in FRLG.

    Espeon is better than both, but oh, wait... :rolleyes2:

    Espeon wouldn't be there, doesn't fit the muh-nostalgia-everything-must-be-the-same mindset of GF when doing remakes. :P

    Just because you like to fight the E4 underleveled doesn't mean that everybody else should do the same. I absolutely hate being underleveled, myself, and the grinding is far worse in Red/Blue than it is in Yellow (which isn't exactly known for great grinding, itself).

    At which level do you reach the E4? Slowflake, who has a policy of killing everything that moves and doesn't run from any fights, reached the E4 with a L57 Venusaur in his LP. But he had only three Pokémon for most of the game (Venusaur, Alakazam and Gengar) and the others were the bird trio which he used some Rare Candies on. I always reach Lorelei with a team of six in the low 50s, which is more than enough. Ideally you'd want to grind to 60 for Blue but there isn't any need, the RBY E4 is really not that difficult even with a team in the low 50s.

    But, Rhydon gives more EXP and is far less of an insult to your skill level. FRLG completely dumbed down the original games' difficulty level, as if they were made for preschoolers.

    I disagree, because all the trainers except Giovanni in Viridian use the exact same Pokémon. It had a bunch of endless tutorials but was probably easier because of improved movepools, stat spreads and type matchups, despite the movesets being far improved over the original RB.

    That also broke the continuity of the Gen 3-5 timeline, as Red's team made zero sense in the context of FRLG (which didn't include any of the Yellow gifts).

    Pokémon games have that rule that you won't be able to get the other starters in the same file (broken somewhat in XY). Allowing you to get all three starters in FRLG would break that rule.
     
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    • Seen Jan 2, 2016
    i honestly don't want a remake that adds so many changes that it makes us forget what the original was like. keep in mind, an original isn't just to add updated features for the old nostalgic people who want something new. its also for those who want to re-experience the original or et a slightly more enjoyable.

    FRLG isn't that bad....it could've used a little more...berries would've been nice. Day/night feature could've also been something nice as well. It did add a little bit more story, but could've added just a few more features. Surfing Pikachu minigame would've been very beneficial. Perhaps even a "flying" pikachu minigame as well. Even the option to get a pikachu and not choose a starter is definitely a strong possibility.


    REGARDLESS....i would like a 3D remake...but i dont want the game to be updated and add in more features to the point that its not honoring Red/Blue.
     
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    • Seen Apr 22, 2018
    Well, if you give Sabrina a L50 Alakazam like she has in Yellow, she'll kill anything you throw at her. L43 as in FRLG is more manageable. Still, Sabrina was supposed to be That One Boss but the changes in stats after RBY made Alakazam much easier to take down. Anything fast with strong physical moves would kill it fast. Ok, maybe Haunter wouldn't be the ideal way to take her down, but the fact Kanto lacks Dark types isn't much of a deterrent.

    But, Dark types were created for this exact purpose, and yet, FRLG's stupid "nostalgia Dex" prevents us from taking advantage of that important innovation. Again, how is this even remotely an improvement over the originals? Aren't remakes supposed to fix the flaws of the original games?

    Weren't we both talking about a hypothetical 1st gen modern game? It would have online trading.

    I thought we were talking about FRLG's merits as games.

    I'd much rather use Charizard in FRLG than Yellow. In FRLG it has its great Sp.Atk. :P Early Flamethrower compared to RBY also makes the game a cakewalk.

    Bleh, XY beats both. It has a P/S split, two powerful Megas, and most importantly, isn't your sole Starter (so it isn't left completely to the mercy of early Gyms that hate it and its frail Defenses).

    Today, since both RBY and FRLG are obsolete, you can choose which one you prefer, but back then it was a great thing to have a remake of the classic which was compatible with the latest games.

    Unfortunately, that was pretty much the only reason for FRLG's existence. Ruby and Sapphire cut the cord, and GF was too lazy to find some other way to fill the Pokédex gaps (like a 2nd postgame region), so they decided to redo Gen 1 to be compatible with Ruby and Sapphire. FRLG was really an enhanced port, not a true remake (unlike HGSS and ORAS).

    Personally GSC could've benefitted from being "incompatible" with RBY but the time machine was a great idea and only way to complete the Pokédex in GSC.

    Why do you say that?

    I know that, but from a gameplay perspective it wasn't so hot. Future games with day/night system had few Pokémon exclusive to a time of the day. BW introduced the seasonal system but it doesn't prevent you from getting all Pokémon. Stuff like Cubchoo and Cryogonal is more common during the winter but doesn't disappear during other seasons.

    Also, me and my friends with Silver version had problems catching Ledyba because Ledyba was only available during the morning in Silver version. Of course, it wasn't such a big deal because Ledyba is one of the worst Pokémon in existence, even among the early bugs! But morning didn't last long and it was only available in the morning, which is a waste considering how forgettable it was. When I was a preteen, I studied during the morning and rarely played Pokémon in the weekends during the morning, so I didn't get many morning-exclusive things.

    I'll admit that I never got many morning-only things, myself, but it still never bothered me that much. If anything, I saw it as a reward for getting up early. :P

    The problem with Espeon/Umbreon, like I said, is that in the Kanto games you get Eevee at L25 already. These forms evolve by friendship, so they take leveling and endless walking around. You'd be stuck with an Eevee for quite a bit of the game and Eevee would skip certain moves. Not to mention Eevee itself is quite weak. That's what I meant with there being better options. If you choose the stone evos you instantly get a strong Pokémon.

    Eevee had a problem in FRLG because it came at L25 so it skipped the first elemental moves. Flareon suffered the most, because there was no weak Fire TM to teach it and, without Ember, you'd be stuck with Fire Spin until high levels. They should've lowered the level you obtain Eevee in the game to 15.

    Well, that could've been solved by, get this, breeding. Why wasn't the Route 5 Day Care made into a proper, modern Day Care? Screw "nostalgia," this is about practicality.

    I pointed that out because you told me you liked HGSS.

    Yes, they have a few flaws, so what? At least, they brought a ton of new content to the table. What did FRLG add that was worth as much as the Pokéathlon, the new Routes/Safari Zone, and following Pokémon? Or, ORAS' additions like Soaring, New Mauville, and the Delta Episode?

    Espeon wouldn't be there, doesn't fit the muh-nostalgia-everything-must-be-the-same mindset of GF when doing remakes. :P

    I didn't see a whole lot of that mentality in HGSS and ORAS. It's only FRLG that was an upgraded clone of its originals.

    At which level do you reach the E4? Slowflake, who has a policy of killing everything that moves and doesn't run from any fights, reached the E4 with a L57 Venusaur in his LP. But he had only three Pokémon for most of the game (Venusaur, Alakazam and Gengar) and the others were the bird trio which he used some Rare Candies on. I always reach Lorelei with a team of six in the low 50s, which is more than enough. Ideally you'd want to grind to 60 for Blue but there isn't any need, the RBY E4 is really not that difficult even with a team in the low 50s.

    Just because you can fight the E4 with a L50 team doesn't mean I will. It's L60 or nothing. In Yellow, this usually isn't as much of an issue, as thanks to Blaine and Giovanni being stronger, I'm usually L55-58 by the time I reach Victory Road, and the wild Pokémon there are fairly high level. But, in RB, I'm rarely at or above L55, and Victory Road is full of L20 Zubat/Geodude/Machop that give next-to-no EXP. That is what Hell looks like.

    I disagree, because all the trainers except Giovanni in Viridian use the exact same Pokémon. It had a bunch of endless tutorials but was probably easier because of improved movepools, stat spreads and type matchups, despite the movesets being far improved over the original RB.

    Giovanni's and the E4's teams were dropped by two levels. Why was this? To make it stupidly easy, of course! :rolleyes2:

    Pokémon games have that rule that you won't be able to get the other starters in the same file (broken somewhat in XY). Allowing you to get all three starters in FRLG would break that rule.

    Which, is why Red's team should've gotten a complete overhaul in HGSS. Hell, even Red, himself. (What, you mean, Red wasn't the only PC in FRLG?)

    i honestly don't want a remake that adds so many changes that it makes us forget what the original was like. keep in mind, an original isn't just to add updated features for the old nostalgic people who want something new. its also for those who want to re-experience the original or et a slightly more enjoyable.

    FRLG isn't that bad....it could've used a little more...berries would've been nice. Day/night feature could've also been something nice as well. It did add a little bit more story, but could've added just a few more features. Surfing Pikachu minigame would've been very beneficial. Perhaps even a "flying" pikachu minigame as well. Even the option to get a pikachu and not choose a starter is definitely a strong possibility.

    REGARDLESS....i would like a 3D remake...but i dont want the game to be updated and add in more features to the point that its not honoring Red/Blue.

    But, a remake that's the exact same as the original in everything except graphics and a few mechanics isn't a remake, it's an enhanced port. If one wants to "re-experience the original," then they should just go play the originals. I, for one, would rather see the originals reimagined and redeveloped into fresh, modern games.
     
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    • Seen Jan 2, 2016
    Not true...frlg is a remake. Everything was redone. Hence remake. Enhanced port would be using the same mechanics, same engine and just updating it graphically. A 3d renake is still a remake....you clearly dont know what a remake is if you think it means it needs changes or aditions for game mechanics.
     
    895
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    • Seen Apr 22, 2018
    All FRLG did was change the graphics and battling mechanics to Ruby/Sapphire standards. Otherwise, the story was the exact same, the Pokémon selection was the exact same, and even some of the mechanics were the exact same (like no clock or Berries).

    Unless you wanted to trade with RSE (or play Gen 1 on a DS/Lite), there was literally no point in playing FRLG over RBY. The games added nothing new to Gen 1, and don't have hardly anything to set them apart from the originals like HGSS and ORAS.
     
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