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Darwinism: Misinterpreted?

Pinkie-Dawn

Vampire Waifu
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  • Charles Darwin's theory of evolution has left a huge impact towards how we view the natural world. In the wild, the theory explains survival of the fittest, in which only the strongest individuals, thanks to their genes chosen by natural selection, will survive and are allowed to breed to pass on those genes. The theory was later expanded towards civilization, called social Darwinism, and it has been used to separate humans into classes and justify a villain's motives in books, movies, and television. With the recent happenings towards endangered species being on the brink of extinction, those who oppose of helping those species refer back to Darwin's theory of evolution on how natural selection has chosen humans as the most dominant species on the planet, and it was those species' own fault for failing to adapt to the changes we make in the environment. Of course, there are those who believe these people are misinterpreting the true meaning of Darwinism, and what's recently going on isn't considered "natural." My question to you guys is do you believe that Darwinism has been misinterpreted by humans driven by greed and humans who share a cynical grey viewing of the world or not.
     

    Somewhere_

    i don't know where
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  • If i drop a 1000 nuclear bombs on a small country, is it really survival of the fittest if everyone dies? I can't just deem them "unfit." While not as extreme, hunting animals to extinction is similar. Human intervention isn't really Darwinism when things go too far.

    However, in the future, humans will have to adapt to higher populations, more pollution, and global warming (potentially of course), so a "survival of the fittest" could apply there with resistances to impure air and sun-induced physical detriments (cancer, sun burns, etc).
     

    Nakuzami

    [img]https://i.imgur.com/iwlpePA.png[/img]
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  • omg bac of freaking course you decide to focus on your chickens smh

    and I'm just going to address this part of the op, as I feel it's the main point
    those who oppose of helping those species refer back to Darwin's theory of evolution on how natural selection has chosen humans as the most dominant species on the planet, and it was those species' own fault for failing to adapt to the changes we make in the environment

    The changes we make to the environment are not natural. Sure, some species can survive them, but that doesn't mean the ones that can't don't deserve to live.

    People who believe that they don't are, well, what I like to refer to as "idiots."
     
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  • The theory is entirely accurate. All you have to do is look at the Monarch Butterfly. It's caterpillar ONLY eats milkweed. This is, in my opinion, one of the many reasons they are failing to thrive on modern day earth. They are a flawed species, which is why they are doing so poorly in our current situation (I am not saying we should just keep on polluting the earth and let the Monarchs go, but they just aren't a resilient species at all and such creatures do not last.)

    Now look at the Eastern Black Swallowtail Butterfly. It is thriving incredibly well. Why? Because it is the fittest. It has a ton of host plants, the caterpillars are much more resilient than Monarch caterpillars, and they don't go through the risky escapade to Mexico. They are a bouncier, hardier species than Monarchs and as such are surviving excellently.

    Now we turn our attention to chickens. Chickens have eyes a lot like ours, with an exception in that they can detect ultraviolet light. One of the ways they use this ability is to observe the feathers of their young. Shiny feathers mean healthy chicks, dull feathers mean unhealthy chicks. After this conclusion, the mother hen will prioritize the healthier chicks, making sure they get more food. She is performing by instinct natural selection, ensuring only the cream of the crop passes on her genes.

    Another interesting thing about chickens is that if a member of the flock shows any signs of illness the rest of the flock will either starve, distance themselves from, or execute the affected flock member in order to ensure the flock maintains a healthy, thriving order. This goes for birth defects as well. A mother hen will not stand for a sickly chick. She will most often kill it so she can better prioritize her healthier young.

    Humans break the rules of natural selection. We are compassionate, we are incredibly intelligent. For a species as a whole, we are resilient. How we will hold up over time, it's hard to say. But that's a different topic. The current topic involves natural selection within a species.

    So let's talk a bit about birth defects and parental bonding. In our society, good mothers make sure all of her children are treated equally and all have the same chance of survival. These are morals that we as an intelligent, independently-thinking, caring species have invented. Natural selection is always in effect, a child born with perfect eyesight under the same conditions as a child born blind will almost always thrive better. For blind chicks, being born is the end of the road. The hen will execute or ignore them. What makes humans so unique is that we will care for our young, therefore interfering with how natural selection was meant to function. But, we don't really rely on natural selection the way other species do, do we? Because of our position as the (questionably) dominant species of earth, we don't require rigorous enforcement of natural selection. We have the option.

    Darwinism has only been misinterpreted by people who don't quite understand how it works or don't want to understand how it works. As a theory, it is excellent. All you have to remember is how different we are as a species from other animals on this earth, and the theory is really easy to accept.

    These are actually some really interesting points.

    The one thing that separates the human race from the rest of nature, is our intelligence. Our intelligence is the only reason this issue exists. (literally)

    So let's talk a bit about birth defects and parental bonding. In our society, good mothers make sure all of her children are treated equally and all have the same chance of survival. These are morals that we as an intelligent, independently-thinking, caring species have invented. Natural selection is always in effect, a child born with perfect eyesight under the same conditions as a child born blind will almost always thrive better. For blind chicks, being born is the end of the road. The hen will execute or ignore them. What makes humans so unique is that we will care for our young, therefore interfering with how natural selection was meant to function. But, we don't really rely on natural selection the way other species do, do we? Because of our position as the (questionably) dominant species of earth, we don't require rigorous enforcement of natural selection. We have the option.

    The chicken analogy is similar to Sparta.

    They wanted warriors. If a child was born sick or with some kind of defect, they were thrown to the lions.

    We have evolved so much and I believe that has taken away many of our natural tendencies. Being as civilized as most humans are today, survival is much easier and humans no longer have to concern themselves with themselves as much.

    It would be very hypocritical of us however, to say that we shouldn't help animals in the environment and such. Are we not ruining natural selection with our hospitals and medicine and such? Our laws on murder and attempts to prevent people from suicide? this all interferes with natural selection. (and is also why overpopulation is most likely going to cause a much larger problem)
     
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    Darwin's theory of natural selection largely applies to individuals within a population - rather than between species. It suggests that only the best in that species live to pass on their genes; this leads to the species changing over time.

    I disagree with Bard that we are still a part of the natural world. Our progression in intelligence has set us apart from other animals - whilst you can compare dams and houses, there is such a vast difference in our modern housings and beaver dams. The actual comparison you should make are hand-made tribal huts.

    Natural Selection certainly no longer applies to us. The weak, unintelligent, disloyal, unattractive (general traits normally accentuated by natural selection) still reproduce and have children.

    Likewise, animals we are driving to extinction are not always selected by natural pressures. If we destroy a habitat, we give no opportunity for Natural Selection to kick in. The changes that we inflict on the world are far too quick to respond to - evolution is a process that happens over millennia, and even minor selection of advantageous traits takes generation to be anywhere near common in a population. Especially in large, slow breeding animals.

    We need to give the poor things a chance, and minimise our impacts on the world as a whole. Although perhaps we're too far gone now.
     
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  • Okay. Natural selection is about the effect of how the interaction of traits with the environment leads to reproductive advantage (or disadvantage). If a trait can give an individual more reproductive advantage, then it will be expressed to a greater extent (and a disadvantageous trait to a lesser extent) in subsequent generations. Over time, these shifting tides of trait or gene expression leads to the change in the species' genetic make-up and we consider the species to have adapted to its environment if the traits it is expressing are better for the environment it lives in than the traits it had before.

    Nothing in the concept of natural selection refers to how it can only occur in a "natural" environment or what not, and nothing excludes humans being affected by natural selection. As long as we have traits that are better or worse for our survival in the environment (no matter what that is) then natural selection will act upon us.

    If you remember way back when they taught you evolution in class, there was the example of the peppered moth in England. Over the course of the Industrial Revolution, the most common colour of that moth changed from white to black. That's an example of natural selection occurring in an environment that was clearly touched by human intervention. That's also a rare example of how being black can be advantageous for survival.
     

    Thepowaofhax

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    Darwin's theory of natural selection largely applies to individuals within a population - rather than between species. It suggests that only the best in that species live to pass on their genes; this leads to the species changing over time.

    I disagree with Bard that we are still a part of the natural world. Our progression in intelligence has set us apart from other animals - whilst you can compare dams and houses, there is such a vast difference in our modern housings and beaver dams. The actual comparison you should make are hand-made tribal huts.

    Natural Selection certainly no longer applies to us. The weak, unintelligent, disloyal, unattractive (general traits normally accentuated by natural selection) still reproduce and have children.

    Likewise, animals we are driving to extinction are not always selected by natural pressures. If we destroy a habitat, we give no opportunity for Natural Selection to kick in. The changes that we inflict on the world are far too quick to respond to - evolution is a process that happens over millennia, and even minor selection of advantageous traits takes generation to be anywhere near common in a population. Especially in large, slow breeding animals.

    We need to give the poor things a chance, and minimise our impacts on the world as a whole. Although perhaps we're too far gone now.

    While it holds true that it is talking about a population, the analogy he said is sound. Like it or not, Humans are just another animal. This animal, the one that regards itself as rational, is the highest animal on the food chain in most if not every given ecosystem due to our ability to create complex machinery, tools and weaponry. Therefore, it would make sense that our homes, which were created by humans or humans using such machinery and tools, as similar to the nests of other creatures. The very reason for this is because we evolved the intellectual capacity to create such tools and machinery (and the very hands we use to make machinery).

    Another thing to consider is that all traits you say for Natural Selection no longer working on us is null and void, except maybe attractiveness (which natural selection has a huge hold on; the teens of now would want an attractive mate vice an intelligent one) are created through psychological and biological effects. If a creature has already made technology to do everything for it, logically it wouldn't need to exert the muscular strength as much, leading to later creatures in the cycle to be lazy. Due to this lack of exercise, muscles will not be strengthened. For mental strength, this would depend on either the upbringing of the child (assuming it isn't through birth or genetic defect). Disloyalty and intelligence both regard the upbringing; a child who has no access to an education will, of course, be dumb. If a person's upbringing involved being betrayed a good bit of the time, they will either not trust humans or become disloyal themselves. Such argument is similar to that of the alt-Right; blaming certain psychological traits for always being the person's genes.

    Natural Selection also doesn't exclude us. Therefore, if a human population over-hunts or over-fishes a species to extinction, it would make sense for it being that way. We were an environmental variable and we wiped out that creature. Destroying a habitat to pave way for our own is similar; we kill indigenous tree species for materials to build a city, and as a consequence, the animals who don't move to another area or don't adapt die-off. Nature is therefore, a natural resource. We need to save it due to the simple fact that once something is gone, we can never get it again.
     
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