Flaws in the meta-game

What do you think are some flaws in the meta-game that's developed around Gen VI? Do you think the meta is over-centralised on anything? Any particular Pokémon?

And what do you believe are some flaws in the mechanics of some Pokémon that cause an imbalance or annoyance in competitive play? Do you think sweepers get a general advantage over other Pokémon? Or do you think walls do? Or even a particular type does?

Discuss. (And I hope this is a valid thread :))

goth sucks clock, its shit like bu talonflame pls ban

buflame is actually very manageable lol, see quag or talon or stuff like roartran

sri I thought that you were bitching about Bulk Up Talonflame once too. Or was that just Mid?

Anyway, I don't like Stealth Rocks (or entry hazards in general). I could type more on it but I don't think anyone cares.

was me haha

and zekrom, i think they made a sr-less tier for people to try in gen 5 or 4 iirc. would be cool to bring it back imo :o

revere said:

was me haha

and zekrom, i think they made a sr-less tier for people to try in gen 5 or 4 iirc. would be cool to bring it back imo :o

Click to expand...

Yeah, I remember that they did that in Gen 5 but it only lasted for about a week though. Despite the fact that I don't like SR I don't actually want it gone. Just imagine stuff like Talonflame, Mega Zard, Mega Pinsir, etc, in a game with no SR. I just want the damage nerfed. Or at least for a better distribution of Spinners and Defoggers.

The main flaw of competitive battling in general is the huge luck factor. There's always that slight chance of a critical hit that can heavily alter the outcome of a battle. Additionally, moves which have a small chance of inflicting a status condition are annoying to deal with, and can sometimes alter the outcome of a battle as well. In all honesty, the metagame would probably be a bit better if the only luck factor involved in battles are the low or high damage rolls--no critical hits, no 30% chance to burn, no 30% chance to miss. Everything is almost predetermined and there wouldn't be any stupid strategies--just pure team building and battling skill.

Zeffy said:

The main flaw of competitive battling in general is the huge luck factor. There's always that slight chance of a critical hit that can heavily alter the outcome of a battle. Additionally, moves which have a small chance of inflicting a status condition are annoying to deal with, and can sometimes alter the outcome of a battle as well. In all honesty, the metagame would probably be a bit better if the only luck factor involved in battles are the low or high damage rolls--no critical hits, no 30% chance to burn, no 30% chance to miss. Everything is almost predetermined and there wouldn't be any stupid strategies--just pure team building and battling skill.

Click to expand...

The random chance has always been somewhat annoying when it can do stuff like decide a match, especially in that it's not truly random (nothing is). However, I think there may be a line between what's skill/strategy oriented and what's actually fun/interesting. I know you said to keep the random damages, but if they removed the chance-based additional effects of moves, how interesting would each match be?

I know that the fact that chance can decide the outcome of a match over player skill is annoying sometimes, but it can keep the game interesting. But maybe there should be less of it in some way. The only main complaint I have is about critical hits, their power should probably be nerfed a little.

The lack of type diversity is the major flaw of the metagame, because OU is dominated by Steel types, and it's mentally implying that if a Pokémon is part Steel so long as it's not Rock, Ice, Psychic, or a mono, then you're automatically OU. Flying types are also dominant in OU, though it's simply due to Defog's buff this gen. There's too little Pokémon from different mono types such as Rock and Electric and dual types such as anything that isn't Steel as a secondary type, and you can only find a majority of them in the lower tiers, which are viewed as inferior to OU and will be mocked by elitists and newcomers to the competitive community.

- The Choice items. They are ridiculously abusable, especially when combined with priority or extremely powerful STAB moves, such as Heracross's Close Combat or Latios's Draco Meteor. But Choice Scarf stands out as it allows a Pokemon to get the jump on another which would otherwise outspeed it and possibly kill.
- The move Shell Smash. While the Pokemon that do actually get it aren't particularly great in OU, but rip holes in lower tiers (Cloyster in UU, Omastar with rain support and Barbaracle in PU, NU and even RU!), when you consider that even friggin' Electivire can easily sweep teams at +2/+2/+2 when Smeargle or Gorebyss passes a boost to it, you know there's something wrong. Imagine if something with excellent mixed bulk and enough power would get Shell Smash, it would become absolutely monstrous.
- The Mega Evolutions. What was GameFreak smoking.

• Megas
• Gothitelle

Regards elf.

Idk, I don't think that the Choice items are that bad. Being locked into one move sounds like enough of a trade off to me.

I always hate it though when the game haxes at a really crucial time. It's like, dammit, I didn't win that battle because of skill, I won it because the RNG decided to make that Ice Beam crit AND freeze the opponent's poke at the perfect time =(

Actually I just hate RNGs

Honestly I feel the more generations they make the harder it is to reach/keep a balance. Personally I stopped playing Gen 5 because I felt like it was just one giant weather war. Weather teams definitely have their strengths and I've seen some solid ones, but I didn't like that they took something that was essentially a niche and threw it to the center of the meta. I can deal with the RNG for the most part, but there are definitely those moments where there's no doubt you would've won/built a better team and just got screwed over at every turn by the smallest percent chances.

some guy thought mega luke and mence should be ou hnggg, he said they aren't really that op

and he said mega manectric actually counters mega mence with intimidate and hp ice he even got intimidate stats wrong

11/10 elf suks megas arent op

GreenFlame said:

I know that the fact that chance can decide the outcome of a match over player skill is annoying sometimes, but it can keep the game interesting. But maybe there should be less of it in some way. The only main complaint I have is about critical hits, their power should probably be nerfed a little.

Click to expand...

It doesn't really make the game interesting. You're in a situation that you know you've already won but the opponent miraculously landed a critical hit, how would you feel? I would feel cheated, honestly. It's not like Dota2 (or games similar to that) where you can expect a crit because they have the appropriate skill/item to do so.

They did nerf the critical damage from 2x to 1.5x, but I would honestly prefer a battle without critical hits.

Zeffy said:

It doesn't really make the game interesting. You're in a situation that you know you've already won but the opponent miraculously landed a critical hit, how would you feel? I would feel cheated, honestly. It's not like Dota2 (or games similar to that) where you can expect a crit because they have the appropriate skill/item to do so.

They did nerf the critical damage from 2x to 1.5x, but I would honestly prefer a battle without critical hits.

Click to expand...

Hm yeah, I know what you mean. I think it might be good if they made conditions that normally increase the chance for critical hits the only way to have any chance of landing them.

All of the reliance on luck in Pokemon is the biggest reason why it isn't a good competitive game. (Don't get me wrong though, Pokemon is still fun nonetheless.) Megas are also annoying but it was clear that the power creep was getting worse anyway.

Xairmo said:

Honestly I feel the more generations they make the harder it is to reach/keep a balance. Personally I stopped playing Gen 5 because I felt like it was just one giant weather war. Weather teams definitely have their strengths and I've seen some solid ones, but I didn't like that they took something that was essentially a niche and threw it to the center of the meta. I can deal with the RNG for the most part, but there are definitely those moments where there's no doubt you would've won/built a better team and just got screwed over at every turn by the smallest percent chances.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I definitely prefer Gen 4 in comparison to 5 or 6. Stall was a bit dominant but offense was still pretty viable. Practically every Pokemon had a good handful of checks or counters, with the exception of maybe Dragonite. There wasn't such a large emphasis on revenge killing and team matchups. I wish Gen 4 OU/UU was more popular here, but their mechanics are a bit inaccessible for newcomers now. :(

wolf said:

Yeah, I definitely prefer Gen 4 in comparison to 5 or 6. Stall was a bit dominant but offense was still pretty viable. Practically every Pokemon had a good handful of checks or counters, with the exception of maybe Dragonite. There wasn't such a large emphasis on revenge killing and team matchups. I wish Gen 4 OU/UU was more popular here, but their mechanics are a bit inaccessible for newcomers now. :(

Click to expand...

Archer99's post has already describe why Gen 4's metagame isn't too great either, because the Stealth Rock has greatly hindered certain types that keep other dominant types in check, which forces them to have a secondary type to neutralize Stealth Rock's damage.

Clearly people havent played gen 4 if they think that is how it works. Its not.

Late Dppt was the essence of balance imo (with Latias, post Latias stupid shit like Shaymin was bs to face). All play styles were viable. No bs megas, no bs no skill gothitelle and everything could be checked and countered.

If a pokemon wasnt ou because it had a SR weak? It sucked anyway, was outclassed, offered little utility etc looking at you Charizard fanboys. Zapdos, Gyarados, Ninjask, Togekiss, Dragonite, Weavile etc were ALL OU and all were horrendously Stealth Rock weak. Infact Salamence and Shaymin-S were BANNED in gen 4 for for being OP and both were SR weak. So i dont get how that correlates with keeping other "dominant" types in check. :\

Plus Payback sp.def Forretress was a thing and at worse 3hko'd the best spinblockers in the game aka Rotom-A and ohko'd Gengar so they couldnt stop you spinning forever. Life Orb Recover Starmie was also a thing and couldnt be spinblocked.

Lets fast forwards to today, you have even MORE powerful spinners and Defog, offensive AND defensive magic bounce users etc. Maybe you're just being outplayed? Just something to think about.

Dark Azelf said:

Lets fast forwards to today, you have even MORE powerful spinners and Defog, offensive AND defensive magic bounce users etc. Maybe you're just being outplayed? Just something to think about.

Click to expand...

What do you mean more? There's only a couple of (viable) spinners and defoggers in each tier, right?