Alabama Defying Federal Government

Despite a federal ruling to issue Same Sex Marriage licenses, at least 51 of 67 Alabama county just simply are not. The Governor Robert Bentley is noted as being "disappointed" in the federal ruling but has decided to do nothing about judges who do decide to issue licenses. The State Chief Justice Roy Moore has since ordered judges to refuse licenses to gay couples. He is a vocal opponent of homosexuality, his defense for his actions being that he does not believe the federal government has the ability to redefine the word "marriage."

Article: https://gma.yahoo.com/most-alabama-...-marriage-033131584--abc-news-topstories.html

I for one, think they are idiots. Especially Roy Moore--his position on this issue is irrelevant, it was a federal mandate and he'd do his best to listen. I'm just waiting for the state to get their pants sued off and this jack ass hopefully removed from his office. Apart from that, his reasoning is just.. weak. Very, very weak. I don't know if he understands how long marriage dates back in history, and how much how marriage works and what it entails has changed... but it's silly to me that he somehow thinks the state of Alabama has more power to define the word "marriage" than does the federal government or other states--or even other countries, for that matter. If I was one of the couples I'd mount a federal lawsuit against the court that denied my license

In this same vein, I think it was a bold move to say the least. Ideally they would be correct in the stance to deny gay marriage--the USA is supposed to a set of strongly allied and interconnected yet SOVEREIGN states. What it is supposed to be, however, is not what it is; so I don't know why those officials in Alabama attempting to do this. They say they are going to wait for the supreme court to make a decision, which is saddening because they take a very long time to do things. That could be their gambit I suppose, just holding off the inevitable as long as possible.

Either way, anyone else's thoughts?

The county I grew up in is or was trying to do the same thing. They're using the "it's against my personal morals" excuse to keep from issuing same sex marriages.

All I can say is maybe those people shouldn't have a job that enforces the law, when they don't plan on abiding by it themselves.

The reason states are considered sovereign was intended as a means for addressing state interests to ensure states with more resources and invested people would not domineer the other states, and really the US Constitution required the addition of state protection of autonomy. With that said, why?

We should be addressing the normative underpinning of "state's rights" rather than say they should be A, because A is good. Decentralization allows for more proficient allocation of resources to individuals, they are in a closer proximity. Further, state governments mostly function as a means to protecting economic interests of the state and squabbling over budgeting and running of institutions such as schools, prisons, national parks, among other things. This makes sense due to the proximity argument and the special needs that each state requires with variance of resources and interests.

When it comes to freedoms, why should they not be uniform? Are there any state-specific reason as to why a freedom should be limited or expanded based on state context?

Beyond the issue of states' rights...the judicial leaders of Alabama are overtly and knowingly breaching the supremacy clause. It's clear-cut. Rule of law in the United States is not the best, but it is better than having a crude legal system that is radical and unstable. If I agreed with the stance, I would still have to disagree with the breach of rule of law as it relates to federalism.

Oh boy nullification.

This is stupid and the judges should be well aware that they are commiting a crime by ignoring a Federal ruling. I'm afraid there is a huge underlying problem in the US and that is that some people (millions) believe that "freedom" implies "the freedom to ignore the rules I signed up to whenever I feel like". Does this mean that everybody can ignore whichever law they like whenever they want and claim "morals" as an excuse? That is something one of the three powers of the State cannot possibly say, lest it falls into anarchy.

I expect days' worth of Fox News debates on that issue.

Went said:

Oh boy nullification.

This is stupid and the judges should be well aware that they are commiting a crime by ignoring a Federal ruling. I'm afraid there is a huge udnerlying problem in the US and that is that some people (millions) believe that "freedom" implies "the freedom to ignore the rules I signed up to whenever I feel like". Does this mean that everybody can ignore whichever law they like whenever they want and claim "morals" as an excuse? That is something one of the three pwoers of the State cannot possibly say, lest it falls into anarchy.

I expect days' worth of Fox News debates on that issue.

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Let's have a drinking game. Drink once for every "nanny-state", "big-government" and "state rights" comment.

The Dark Avenger said:

Let's have a drinking game. Drink once for every "nanny-state", "big-government" and "state rights" comment.

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Trying to get alcohol poisoning I see?

-raises hand- Hi!! I'm Alabamian!!

From the Alabamian standpoint at the moment, we're honestly really proud, despite what's still happening. But over 150 couples got their marriage licenses in Jefferson County and it's fantastic. The first actual ceremony is to be held in Huntsville and a wonderful pastor that preaches love is going to be there to take part. We're the 37th state to allow same-sex marriage. We thought we'd be 48th-50th, honestly!! That in itself is something to behold. So for what we do have right now, those of us that support same-sex marriage are extremely happy. I'm very proud of my state right now, even if it's not got this down pat yet.

Aside from being proud of our stride here in Alabama, we hate Roy Moore. lol His arguments against this are very weak indeed. My county is one of the counties that still aren't issuing marriage licenses. It's a shame, too. I will never understand why people care enough to oppose gay marriage. Unless you're gay, what does it have to do with you? Absolutely nothing. And I could go on about how many things are in the Bible that no one else abides by or cares about, related to marriage mind, but this still gets all the flack.

tl;dr I'm a very proud Alabamian right now, even though there's still work to be done.

PS: We're ahead of Georgia for once!!

This is the type of stuff that makes you walk up to someone and tell them to eat a gun. What purpose will this man serve? None, really. Halting progress is very threatening of becoming obsolete. To defy this ruling is to resume the paranoia and hatred of the community. Besides, let's not forget that they're missing out on loads of cash because of this. Licenses cost money, state makes money from this. Not only that, but it opens the door for a whole slew of problems and laws that can 'be ignored'.

He's playing with fire and forcing the judges into this position whether they agree or not is an unacceptable use of the power that has been granted to him. It is not fair for him to speak and use his powers when elected by the majority to punish the majority ruling, this would cause an impeachment of his office. This man is an ass, and one whom I feel no one would weep for if he got creamed by a short bus while on his way to work. Seems like a small ironic justice for him to get run over by the bus he should have been on.

Rot in hell you bible thumping, pig nose wearing, closet hiding, scum sucking trash. I hope the hammers that be crush you and your family into dust for being ignorant enough to abuse that which was granted to you. I hold officials that break and abuse the Justice system as backward thinking criminals (not to say that sometimes they're right, but there aren't too many laws left that deserve breaking) and should be stripped clean of their ability to 'rule' because that's what they're doing.

Alli said:

-raises hand- Hi!! I'm Alabamian!!

From the Alabamian standpoint at the moment, we're honestly really proud, despite what's still happening. But over 150 couples got their marriage licenses in Jefferson County and it's fantastic. The first actual ceremony is to be held in Huntsville and a wonderful pastor that preaches love is going to be there to take part. We're the 37th state to allow same-sex marriage. We thought we'd be 48th-50th, honestly!! That in itself is something to behold. So for what we do have right now, those of us that support same-sex marriage are extremely happy. I'm very proud of my state right now, even if it's not got this down pat yet.

Aside from being proud of our stride here in Alabama, we hate Roy Moore. lol His arguments against this are very weak indeed. My county is one of the counties that still aren't issuing marriage licenses. It's a shame, too. I will never understand why people care enough to oppose gay marriage. Unless you're gay, what does it have to do with you? Absolutely nothing. And I could go on about how many things are in the Bible that no one else abides by or cares about, related to marriage mind, but this still gets all the flack.

tl;dr I'm a very proud Alabamian right now, even though there's still work to be done.

PS: We're ahead of Georgia for once!!

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From what I've gathered, too, is that despite the government offices there being all finicky about the issue, there is an actual decent amount of support from religious venues who'd otherwise condemn such actions. This was in no way to make Alabama look bad, because they are technically the 37th state to allow gay marriage, even if certain leaders are trying their best to avoid it, that in no way reflects Alabama as a whole. I'm sure of the counties who do not issue marriage licenses that the clerks themselves(at least some of them) have the desire to do so but it creates a conflict of interest in following the rules of their employment.

I just hope that this can all be resolved without relying on the supreme court because as I said in the opening post that tends to be a length process.

Imagine if it got to the point that Obama has to use the National Guard to make sure couples could get marriage licenses. Just imagine the shitstorm that would invoke from the Paul/Rubio/Cruz crowd. Because one show of federal power over civil rights wasn't enough.

But seriously, this is a very direct violation of the Supremacy Clause, its illegal, etc. And I wouldn't even say its about "states rights" either - It's not a state's right to deny equally protected rights to a certain group of people, especially after the SC just affirmed that right.

America is so fascinating to me, honestly. I'm trying to imagine a situation like this in New Zealand where, I don't know... a county (we don't even have states) decided to defy the nationwide legality of same-sex marriage. It'd just turn into laughs more than anything else.

It's just so interesting to me that a situation like this is even feasible.

You know, aside from the whole "denying individual rights based on religious nonsense" that's going on and Alli living there, I really couldn't give two shits about Alabama or any state in the Bible Belt, really. But then again, I hate my own state of California probably just as much, but for different reasons.

What pisses me off the most about this is part I read in the article that a gay couple in Alabama have been waiting 33 years for gay marriage rights. Let that last part sink in a bit. Thirty-three. Years. They've been together.

That's real love and it's a dick move to deny real love the rights and privileges marriage brings based on...well...anything.

There are straight couples who won't even stay married for even a fifth that long. Yet, the "sanctity of marriage" types don't say anything about that.

CarcharOdin said:

You know, aside from the whole "denying individual rights based on religious nonsense" that's going on and Alli living there, I really couldn't give two shits about Alabama or any state in the Bible Belt, really. But then again, I hate my own state of California probably just as much, but for different reasons.

What pisses me off the most about this is part I read in the article that a gay couple in Alabama have been waiting 33 years for gay marriage rights. Let that last part sink in a bit. Thirty-three. Years. They've been together.

That's real love and it's a dick move to deny real love the rights and privileges marriage brings based on...well...anything.

There are straight couples who won't even stay married for even a fifth that long. Yet, the "sanctity of marriage" types don't say anything about that.

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That's actually a good bit to have read. There is actually a lot that the states do that I don't particularly like but I find that the god fearing ones are the ones that cause the most issues "Gawd crated Adum 'n Eev, naut Adum 'n Steeve"

Not only that but it's this kind of behaviour that makes this country the laughing stock of the planet. Sure, japan has wack censoring laws, and Europe is gun-less, but the US has rogue states denying given civil rights. Niiiiiice.

This kind of stuff really disappoints me. A lot of denominations are actually more accepting of same-sex- marriage and same-sex-couples.

http://www.gaychurch.org/affirming-denominations/

I don't understand why so many other denominations are so quick to persecute others for their beliefs and lifestyles, or other denominations for choosing to accept others. We are called to treat others with love, acceptance, and compassion. What is happening here is ignorance, plain and simple.

My rant aside and going back to the topic, this just proves how far too often people are put into positions of power that they are incompetent to be doing. This issue was federally ruled and the defense for not issuing licenses is weak, discriminatory, and irrelevant.

Harley Quinn said:

America is so fascinating to me, honestly. I'm trying to imagine a situation like this in New Zealand where, I don't know... a county (we don't even have states) decided to defy the nationwide legality of same-sex marriage. It'd just turn into laughs more than anything else.

It's just so interesting to me that a situation like this is even feasible.

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Yep, America is a massive uncontrolled social experiment. Pretty exciting, neh?

Anyways, I still see psychological projection as a major component of all homophobia. If only we'd spent as much time in school being educated about our interiors as we spent learning about the material world. But slowly, the collective is shifting and individuals are learning and growing. Especially considering Alli's perspective and that post, I still have hope.

I don't see why anyone is actually surprised at this point lol. Alabama did the exact same thing with civil rights, and the rest of the Bible Belt has been murmuring the exact same things for years too. In a lot of the ways the US has reverted back to Articles of Confederation era politics for the past 5 years.

Anyone remember George "segregation now segregation forever" Wallace? He's now on the wrong side of history and will be remembered forever as a bigot. Same will happen to these people trying to restrict gay rights today.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/04/us-usa-gaymarriage-alabama-idUSKBN0M003220150304

I'm incredibly sad. Alabama's higher court issued a halt on same-sex marriage licenses. Christ Almighty people, we were ahead of ourselves for once and now we're putting ourselves further back.

Going with what Aeroblast said previously about the wrong side of history, that's right where Roy Moore is going to go, along with everyone else preventing people from getting married and being happy. I'm sure he would have loved it if he was denied the right to marry his wife.

Words can't describe how disappointed I am right now. I was so proud of the progress my state was making and this bastard goes off and does this shit and makes us look like the behind-the-times state again. It's 2015, not 1915, Roy Moore. Get it together and get over yourself.

Methinks the Alabama SC and company need to understand the "supremacy" part of the supremacy clause.

Either way, this might be stuck in limbo until the coming Supreme Court ruling. Which will rule against the state of Alabama's ban, as expected, barring some monumental change from the majority of the court. Scalia will continue to be the snake that he is and vote no, and he'll probably take Thomas, possibly Roberts with him, but even still, the court should vote 6-3 or 7-2 to allow same sex marriages nationwide when their ruling comes. Same sex couples might have to hold out for that ruling though, at least in Alabama.

Also lol Ohio State beat your ass in the Sugar Bowl HAHAHAHAHAHAH