The USA

Cassino said:

America doesn't even use Imperial.

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Nobody can tell Americans what to do, we'll use our own measurement system!

Yuoaman said:

But you don't use other measurements, like kilograms and the like. Which leads to many problems when scientists don't know whether they're using the more accurate metric system or not.

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Scientists who deal with measurements use metric almost exclusively here. At least, that was my understanding of things.

Overall, I think here isn't a terrible place to live, and that we're no worse than anywhere else. It's just that our public idiots get more publicity than, say, Britain's public idiots (using Britain only as an example; I could've chosen any developed country).

I don't know where everyone gets these vague generalizations about life in America. If you haven't been here or haven't done your research, then it isn't really your place to comment about how bad life is here. Which in reality is pretty damn good. Just because we do things differently than say, countries in Europe, doesn't mean we're worse off than anyone else. It's all about perspective.

Aurafire said:

I don't know where everyone gets these vague generalizations about life in America. If you haven't been here or haven't done your research, then it isn't really your place to comment about how bad life is here. Which in reality is pretty damn good. Just because we do things differently than say, countries in Europe, doesn't mean we're worse off than anyone else. It's all about perspective.

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Agreed.

I wasn't necessarily wealthy growing up; nor am I now, but I've lived a comfortable life and am able to eat, clothe myself, attend college, and work.

In America, we have a lot more freedoms than people do in Europe.
For example, people have a lot less freedoms in the UK. It is a crime to say "offensive" or otherwise politically incorrect things in public over there. We also have the right to keep and bear arms, which is a lot more restricted in Western Europe.

We also pay way less taxes on average than people in Western European nations do.
And the Parliamentary system essentially creates one-party rule for a certain period of time. Here in America, we have a balance of powers. Not only a balance between the different branches of the federal government; but also a balance between the federal government and the states.

I personally do not like where I live, which happens to be in America. I can't say America is necessarily bad but most of the places that I've been in it feel rather soulless and based within capitalism to an extent. Then again, most times I travel through those areas and I can't speak for every city. The city where I live has absolutely no spark though and it's simply another cog in the white-Protestant machine, but there are quite a few places I've been to in America that isn't like that.

Out of all American cities I've been to, the one with the most interesting "personality" was Detroit. It felt split in its wishes and purpose but at the same time had some sort of thread connecting the people together. It's like a group of people who, despite the most bitter times, can bite their lips and pull through. It's a decaying city but not one without spirit. (of course I have many other places I'd prefer to live over Detroit, but regardless...)

The only place out of the country I remember living even remotely was Japan, and to be honest, I know nothing about any sort of social/taxes although my parent's stories are quite interesting. I do remember Hiroshima having an interesting personality as well, though.

I personally measure a city's greatness in its personality and spirit, and I'd say that both Detroit and Hiroshima seemed like they had way more personality than my hometown would ever have. With the case of Detroit, it may be one of the few cities that can be identified as a big "black" city, and I would be the first to argue that because this demographic they have developed a unique spin on American culture - through years of repression and movement to Detroit they did indeed merge to form a culture. Hiroshima shouldn't need any explaining, it's existed for centuries ;)

and before you say anything, I say "they" because I don't live in Detroit.

The stereotypical "American" culture unfortunately does exist however and likewise can be applied to many smaller towns, especially those in rich suburbs like where I live.

I want to get my ass out of this town actually. The town is nothing but a big piece of commercial estate. No personality at all.



On the topic of Metric measurements... Metric is rarely used in everyday life (unfortunately; remembering how many pints in a gallon is ridiculously difficult) but it is used in science. Also, most products also have metric measurements side-by-side their English counterparts.

I honestly don't see why America is so hated, though. I think it's more of a long-term effect from the Hippie culture, where Americans hated America, and the rest of the world followed suit.

As for the Soulless Capitalist America...

Yeah, I've actually gotta agree. Going to Mobile, I'm... Well, not exactly disgusted, but there are some places that I wouldn't be caught dead in, or else I'd be found dead in (<-White Catholic).

So, yeah.

Then again, every country, by necessity, has cities. And I'd rather take my chances in Mobile than, say, the rougher parts of London, Sydney, Moscow, etc.

As for Detroit... Eh, come to the South. New Orleans, once you get past the annoying Mardi Gras stereotypes, has some history. Personally, that's why I prefer the South. We're stereotyped to Hell and back, but, once you get past it, we have culture, and friendliness.

As I said, can't judge a place I haven't been. If I go to New Orleans I'll take your word for it.

Corvidae said:

As I said, can't judge a place I haven't been. If I go to New Orleans I'll take your word for it.

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Don't get me wrong. New Orleans, like most cities, scares the living crap out of me, and I wouldn't go there alone. I definitely wouldn't go near 90% of New Orleans near Mardi Gras.

However, there are some absolutely beautiful spots, and some... interesting ones. Tulane, Loyola, and Bourbon Street are the biggest ones, for me.

Live_Wire466 said:

Like Aura said, try seeing yourself in their shoes for a change. Change your perspective outside of your comfort zone. Unless you've been there, studied the culture, the language, customs, etc, I wouldn't consider it wise to speak for them and to generalize like that. Certainly there are some advantages and disadvantages between us, but there is nothing wrong with Europe for those aforementioned reasons, and they certainly enjoy just as many freedoms as we do.

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Limiting speech is a limitation of freedom no matter where you're at. What value you as an individual and what value a people's nation places on that is subjective. Any limitation on what a person can do or say is a limitation on their freedom. Whether or not that freedom is worth preserving is subjective.

In fact, this entire thread is subjective. There's no way around that.

Kyoko said:

there is that "WE'RE AMERICAN, WE DO EVERYTHING RIGHT" steryotypical mentality

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That's the one thing that annoys me. Measurements, spellings, driving on the opposite side of the road to the English to be different (something France is also guilty of) and the "God is on America's side" motto all stack up. Yes, it's a powerful and good nation, but blind patriotism always confused me - anywhere.

Shanghai Alice said:

1. "Not my ideals" =/= "Ridiculous."
2. Religion is allowed to stand in the way of scientific progress? That's not religion, ma'am, that's "ethics."

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Very true. I can't find where it was said, but someone mentioned "[America] lets everyone in." If you're going to do that, you need to have a strong religion. I think people will find many of the laws that we find "ethical" are purely based on religion. If you let people come in and then pander to the minorities, letting them do whatever they like (something Australia is far too guilty of) then they're going to take over. When the base religion is messed with, it can send a countries values into turmoil.

Shanghai Alice said:

Then again, every country, by necessity, has cities. And I'd rather take my chances in Mobile than, say, the rougher parts of London, Sydney, Moscow, etc.

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Australian Sydney? Uh... If you carry a laptop into a dark alley in the middle of the night in the worst suburbs... maybe. I don't know what the hell it's doing in the list, though.

I really don't have anything against America and I am quite happy that they're the world power in place of certain other nations. I think the dislike is just a backlash to the over-zealous patriotism.

I think you will all remember a certain member of this forum making a thread that insulted basically every staff member and then threatened "you can't touch me because I am an American citizen." I am aware that it's probably a minority thing, but it's there and it's bloody annoying.

Eh? Did I say Sydney?

Fail. I meant Melbourne, Brisbane, etc. I know people from those cities, and... yeah.

Eh, Higurash and headaches are busy smashing my mind to pieces. My apologies~

Shanghai Alice said:

Fail. I meant Melbourne, Brisbane, etc. I know people from those cities, and... yeah.

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Yeah, I can back that up. Melbourne city is pretty scary at night, like in the past ten years it's gone from safe to full of drunks with knives. Scary stuff.

Every country has its advantages and disadvantages. Personally I prefer living in Australia to living in America, and there are a couple of countries I would prefer to live in above the US, but it's great for holidays and seeing bands.

Shanghai Alice said:

That many countries, that close together, for that many years... That creates stereotypes, bias, prejudice, etc. I've lived there, so... yeah.

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We have absolutely none of that in America. I mean, despite the fact that, in the 21st century we live in a culture that refuses to acknowledge homosexual marriage, where women still make $.77 on the $1 to men, and where half the members of a major political party refuse to accept a President's legitimacy, based on the color of his skin. Where we still have active hate groups such as the Westborough Baptist church, who protested my high school only just recently holding up their signs that say "God hates fags," etc. Yep, good ol' America.

Shanghai Alice said:

1. "Not my ideals" =/= "Ridiculous."
2. Religion is allowed to stand in the way of scientific progress? That's not religion, ma'am, that's "ethics."

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Religion does, most definitely, stand in the way of scientific progress. Christianity, for example? Your bible says that the world was created in 6th days, with humans being created in their present form on the sixth day. Any sensible person knows that the earth is at least 4 Billion years old, yet Evangelical Christians will still argue that the earth is a product of their "God," and only several thousand years old, without any factual evidence to support their claim. Personally, I see that as dangerous thinking, especially given religion's history of rejecting scientific claims that contradict their scriptures.

Do I think Religion itself is dangerous? Not necessarily. When practiced on a personal level, religion itself isn't evil. Whatever you want to believe is A-OK with me. However, when your religious beliefs, morals, or ethics begin to intrude on the beliefs of others in your society, as practicers of religion have done all throughout history, it is then that religion becomes the root of all evil.

Shanghai Alice said:

Let's examine some of the more prosperous nations of Europe:
Liechtenstein (~80% Roman Catholic)
Finland (~98% Lutheran Church of Finland, remaining 2% mostly Orthodox)
Sweden (~95.2% Church of Sweden)
Switzerland (77% various religious (No official church, too divided among various faiths))
Denmark (92% Church of Denmark)
Norway (87% Church of Norway, ~5% other Christian denominations)
Eh?

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"Eh?" is right. Would love to know where you got these statistics from. Wikipedia, perhaps? I was curious when I saw the claim that Finland is "98% Lutherian," because I always remembered Finland for having a relatively high Atheist population. So naturally, I checked up on it. Did you, perhaps, use wikipedia in constructing these numbers? Because it does say Finland was 98% Lutherian...in the year 1900. Since then, that number has dropped to about 80%, with an estimated 18% identifying themselves as "non religious."

Sweden? You stated that "95% belong to the church of Sweden." Wrong again, wouldn't you know! Since 1972, that number has dropped down to a mere 71%.

Denmark? More old statistics. The number above says 92% belonging to the church of Denmark. That percentage has dropped, quite drastically I might add, in the past 3 decades to ~80%.

And Noway? You said 87%, which was correct in the year 2001. That number now stands at 79%. Yet another drastic of decline of 8% in a span of just under 10 years.

Shanghai Alice said:

My point is, being religious doesn't make you backwards and horrible.

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My point is not that either. There are good people of every creed, color, and religion on the world, as well as bad. My point is that you should not attempt to use statistics in support of your claim until you take the time to check over your facts :B

Shanghai Alice said:

So... You're whining that religion has too tight a grip, but you're also whining that our educational system doesn't stamp out any and all alternate beliefs?

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See:
Secularism, n: The view that religious considerations should be excluded from civil affairs or public education

Shanghai Alice said:

Explain, please. You can't fight for equality, and then demand that religion is completely wiped out. If I have to learn the history of Islam and the Middle East for the sake of political correctness, I refuse to let anybody eliminate Christianity from European history. An no, "We'll just teach the bad parts of Christianity, like the Inquisition!" doesn't cut it. If you do that, I want the massacres of the Confucians to be known. I'm sick of this forced political correctness.

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...But no one is teaching the beliefs of Islam in school, only the history. Religion has played a very big role in history; this is indisputable. You're not being taught Islamic beliefs as if they're any sort of "fact," merely the history of Islam, and how it has impacted the world, past and present. We do the same for Christianity too.

Shanghai Alice said:

I'm not happy about having political correctness shoved down my throat, but I bear it. You can bare seeing the words "Evolution is a theory."

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And I'm not happy seeing ignorance either. The word "theory" has a very different meaning when talking in terms of science.

United States National Academy of Science said:

The formal scientific definition of theory is quite different from the everyday meaning of the word. It refers to a comprehensive explanation of some aspect of nature that is supported by a vast body of evidence. Many scientific theories are so well established that no new evidence is likely to alter them substantially. For example, no new evidence will demonstrate that the Earth does not orbit around the sun (heliocentric theory), or that living things are not made of cells (cell theory), that matter is not composed of atoms, or that the surface of the Earth is not divided into solid plates that have moved over geological timescales (the theory of plate tectonics). One of the most useful properties of scientific theories is that they can be used to make predictions about natural events or phenomena that have not yet been observed.

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....By that same logic, the concept of gravity is only a "theory." Or should we also be taught the alternative explanation of "theological force?"

Shanghai Alice said:

(#18. I heard the Eiffel Tower was a popular spot, 'specially around Christmas)

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You are so funny.

Shanghai Alice said:

Additionally, an American household is near the top of the charts in terms of disposable income. And, despite the whole "American employees are treated like crap!" argument, Americans still make some of the highest wages on average.

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Yeah...but you failed to mention the fact that we also have among longest yearly work schedule of any other country, with the least number of vacations.

Shanghai Alice said:

Do your research, please. I had to do a lot in order to correct you, and I'm glad I did.

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Irony is a beautiful thing.

Shanghai Alice said:

You look those young men in the face, and tell them that. You tell them that they're fighting an unjust war, for a country that you're ashamed of.

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lalalalala, what the hell kind of argument is this? Is this an attempt at trying to make someone feel bad for not agreeing with your views?

Shanghai Alice said:

Tell them that they've made the wrong choice. If they're religious, tell them that God won't save them, because there is no God.

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Whether or not there is a God is irrelevant~ Soldiers have a right to believe what they want, as does any citizen. I sympathize with the military as well, but they knew what they signed up for.

Shanghai Alice said:

Pull a Vietnam on them. Spit in their faces. After all, what more do they deserve.

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More guilt, YAAAY ^___^

Shanghai Alice said:

God bless America. Thank you for making me do my homework, Jolene. My faith is renewed.

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Really? Because reading through your post here has caused my faith in the average American to drop slightly 8)

America's kinda cool, but I can't say I don't disagree with some of the country's ideals. For starters the whole idea of anyone being aloud to own a firearm makes no sense to me, the extreme republicanism that has a seemingly huge proportion of the country in a stranglehold of religion and racism, just look at the reaction to Obama's election. There also seems to be a lot more sexual censorship in the US than most of western Europe.

FreakyLocz14 said:

We also pay way less taxes on average than people in Western European nations do.

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Why is that good exactly? Higher taxes are higher for a reason, they pay for things like schools and hospitals. Speaking of which; why is medicine in America treated like a business? And why was the idea for an NHS attacked like that? How is free health care bad?

Live_Wire466 said:

From your viewpoint, maybe that's true. I'm sorry but people cannot do and say whatever they please. We (the USA) have laws that need to be followed. There is a very fine line between what is a "personal freedom" and what isn't. You can't walk into a crowded building and bellow FIRE! at the top of your lungs. That isn't exercising a "personal freedom", that's inciting panic and it will get you arrested, and rightfully so.


But you're right, it is subjective and interpretations can vary wildly.

Europe does things differently than we do, simple as that. So what. My point still stands though. Unless your extremely well versed in their culture, don't judge them by the conventions of your own. Judging another culture through the eyes/standards of your own, aka Ethnocentrism, is bad.

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I never said that people should be able do anything they want, but restricting it is restricting their freedom. Absolute freedom would create a state of anarchy; but it would be ultimate freedom. Any sort of government regulation is a restriction on personal freedom. The government; however has to limit some personal freedoms in order to keep society safe and in order.