• Our software update is now concluded. You will need to reset your password to log in. In order to do this, you will have to click "Log in" in the top right corner and then "Forgot your password?".
  • Welcome to PokéCommunity! Register now and join one of the best fan communities on the 'net to talk Pokémon and more! We are not affiliated with The Pokémon Company or Nintendo.

"The Gospel of Jesus' Wife" authenticated

14,092
Posts
14
Years
  • Source
    Source #2

    An ancient, business-card-sized papyrus fragment that appears to quote Jesus Christ discussing his wife is real, Harvard University announced Thursday. The fragment caused international uproar when it was revealed by a Harvard historian in September 2012, with prominent academics and the Vatican swiftly deeming it a forgery.

    Harvard officials said scientists both within and outside the university extensively tested the papyrus and carbon ink of the badly aged fragment, dubbed the "Gospel of Jesus' Wife." The document, written in Coptic, a language of ancient Egyptian Christians, is made up of eight mostly legible dark lines on the front and six barely legible faded lines on the back. The handwriting and grammar were also examined over the last year and a half to confirm its authenticity. Scientists have concluded the fragment dates back to at least the sixth to ninth centuries, and possibly as far back as the fourth century.

    The document was never meant to prove Jesus was married, Harvard Divinity School professor Karen L. King emphasized Thursday. Instead, she argued, it's meant to highlight that some early Christians may have believed Jesus was married. The distinction is significant because debates over sexuality and marriage have dominated contemporary discussions about Christianity; the Catholic Church cites Jesus' celibacy as one reason its priests must not have sex or marry.

    "The main topic of the fragment is to affirm that women who are mothers and wives can be disciples of Jesus -- a topic that was hotly debated in early Christianity as celibate virginity increasingly became highly valued," King, whose specialties include Coptic literature, Gnosticism and women in the Bible, said in a statement Thursday. "This gospel fragment provides a reason to reconsider what we thought we knew by asking what the role claims of Jesus' marital status played historically in early Christian controversies over marriage, celibacy, and family."

    The legible lines on the front of the artifact seem to form a broken conversation between Jesus and his disciples. The fourth line of the text says, "Jesus said to them, my wife." Line 5 says "... she will be able to be my disciple," while the line before the "wife" quote has Jesus saying "Mary is worthy of it" and line 7 says, "As for me, I dwell with her in order to ..."

    The papyrus is small, barely three inches wide, and covered in dense, incomplete lines of crudely written Coptic text.

    Suffering from significant damage, it could easily have been dismissed as another academically interesting, but not hugely important, fragment of an ancient scroll.

    But written on the papyrus are words that experts now believe are a record of a conversation between Jesus and his disciples that may become as important as documents that form the basis of the accepted New Testament.

    "The Gospel of Jesus's Wife", as it has become known since its discovery two years ago, refers to Jesus saying the words "my wife" and was this week confirmed by scientists not to be a modern forgery, but an ancient document dating from between the sixth and ninth centuries AD, or possibly earlier.

    While there is considerable disagreement about its implications for the Church, professor Hal Taussig, a New Testament scholar who worked on the extensive examination of the fragment, said its meaning was "breathtaking" and could support the notion that Mary Magdalene was "a major leader in the early Jesus movement".

    This week, the Harvard Theological Review included a number of results from the two-year study of the papyrus. Karen King, the Hollis Professor of Divinity at Harvard Divinity School, who announced the discovery of the text in 2012, said that while the scroll did not prove that Jesus was married, it could shed light on early Christian debate about whether "the ideal mode" of life was a celibate one.

    "The main topic of the fragment is to affirm that women who are mothers and wives can be disciples of Jesus – a topic that was hotly debated in early Christianity as celibate virginity increasingly became highly valued," she explained. "This gospel fragment provides a reason to reconsider what we thought we knew by asking what the role claims of Jesus's marital status played historically in early Christian controversies over marriage, celibacy, and family."

    None of the testing carried out on the privately owned fragment has produced evidence that it is a "modern fabrication or forgery", scientists announced this week.

    Harvard Divinity School said: "After all the research was complete, King weighed all the evidence of the age and characteristics of the papyrus and ink, handwriting, language and historical context to conclude the fragment is almost certainly a product of early Christians, not a modern forger."

    To even consider the notion of a non-celibate, married Jesus would be a "huge shift" for some, Prof Taussig told The Washington Post. "This is where people will take the most offence. But for many married people, this might make Jesus feel closer."

    It is not known who wrote the fragment, measuring 1.8 by 3.1 inches, in which Jesus speaks of his mother, his wife and a female disciple called "Mary". It is assumed to have come from Egypt because it is written in Coptic – the form of Egyptian language used by Christians in the Roman period.

    Prof Taussig said he believed the document was ancient and ostensibly as important as documents that make up the accepted New Testament. "Everything we have is a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy. We have no original documents," he added. "What you have are traditions of writing."

    But Reverend James Martin, the editor of America, the national Catholic magazine, said there remained considerable evidence that Jesus was unmarried.

    "It is incredible that the four Gospel writers wouldn't have mentioned Jesus's wife if he had one," he argued. "They mentioned everyone else in his family."

    Image Translation:
    Spoiler:


    Given that the document is essentially authenticated, what does it prove? The notion that early Christianity was still codifying and streamlining the various forms and sects of Christianity is well known, but does this document prove that Jesus as a historical figure, had a wife, and potentially an earthly family? (INB4 DA VINCI CODE CONSPIRACY THEORY ZOMG)

    Given that his supposed wife was the biblical Mary Magdalene, does this change the old role of women in the church, and of religious gender roles in general? Does this damage the credibility of the Vatican, and of the Christian message in general?
     

    Tek

    939
    Posts
    10
    Years
  • Oooh, fun! Before I get into the topic proper, I'd like to make a point of distinction. There is no singular "Christian message". Jesus' teachings, and the Bible in general, have always been interpreted differently by people who understand the world differently. This is evident within the New Testament, where Jesus' teachings of universal love and tolerance in the four Gospels are followed by thoroughly ethnocentric interpretations of those teachings in the following books.

    This phenomenon is also evident when one compares the non-canonical Gospel of Thomas, a book which eschews tradition from the get-go, with the canon Gospels, which are steeped in Jewish tradition and mythic-membership mentality even as they begin to move away from it. From Wikipedia's article on the Gospel of Thomas:

    Compare Thomas 8 SV
    8. And Jesus said, "The person is like a wise fisherman who cast his net into the sea and drew it up from the sea full of little fish. Among them the wise fisherman discovered a fine large fish. He threw all the little fish back into the sea, and easily chose the large fish. Anyone here with two good ears had better listen!"
    with Matthew 13:47–50 NIV:
    47"Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish. 48When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away. 49This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous 50and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
    Here we see not only mythic-membership thinking (righteous vs wicked = in-groups vs out groups), but also the warrior mentality typical of the Old Testament (vengeful punishment for the wicked).

    My point is that Jesus' message is interpreted in different ways according to how one understands the world. If one holds the Christian message to be that women are not "good enough" to be clergy, then this discovery is potentially damaging. However, if one has moved past this level of ethnocentrism, this discovery does not damage the Christian message, because the Christian message is no longer misogynistic!

    As for the Vatican, they may have to do some soul-searching, or they may simply attempt to discredit the finding. I know that a lot of people who don't think gays and women belong in the clergy will be doing the latter. These people arrived at their belief through the authority of tradition, and not through the authority of logic and reasoning. Therefore, logical arguments have no ability to change their beliefs.



    Also, I don't think a single document is sufficient to prove that Jesus had a wife. I believe there is other anecdotal or circumstantial evidence, but I'm not sure. All in all, it's not surprising that we find no mention of Jesus having a wife. Even if he did, it was very very rare in those days to find someone who considered men and women to be equals, so that part would've been hushed up.

    The writers of the gospels, as well as the Christian establishment that eventually followed them, had a vested interest in keeping women down - it allowed them to keep the power they were accustomed to having. Which is another reason I don't buy in to the argument that "The other writers would've mentioned it."



    Equality for women is not a traditional value, it's a modern one. If we can manage to conclusively show that Jesus had a wife, and considered her equal, we would have a way for the extremely traditionally-minded people to act in a worldcentric way without having to develop worldcentric cognition and morals. Unfortunately, those people will be fighting tooth and nail to preserve their traditions. On the bright side, however, we seem to be generally moving away from extreme ethnocentrism to a more mild or tolerant ethnocentrism... at least in some parts of the world :/
     

    BadPokemon

    Child of Christ
    666
    Posts
    10
    Years
  • Oryx

    CoquettishCat
    13,184
    Posts
    13
    Years
    • Age 31
    • Seen Jan 30, 2015
    It's important to note the time period that this "gospel" was written in - they estimate 5th to 9th century. The latest-written gospel accepted into the Bible is from the 4th century. These all seem nearly interchangeable to us since there are 21 centuries now, but this would be like publishing a book about the 15th century now and expecting it to be just as accurate as a book published in 1750.

    The "right way" to be Christian was a fight even from the first century; anyone who has done any basic study of Theology can tell you that. It's not surprising that Jesus having a wife or not having a wife was an issue of theological concern back then, and the historical reality isn't really relevant to the theological reality in that sense. Anyone who believes that the Gospels were written as historical documents is misguided; they were written just as much as subtle (and sometimes not-so-subtle) guidebooks to Christianity just like many of the Old Testament books are guides to Judaism.
     

    Blu·Ray

    Manta Ray Pokémon
    382
    Posts
    14
    Years
  • I have actually read about the possibility of Jesus having a wife before, and most experts conclude that is is very likely that Jesus had a wife. In the past, and even all the way up through history, not having a wife/husband has always been looked down upon. Not being married could simply get you excluded from society, and unmarried people were suspected of being evil, or even worse, gay.
    But what difference would it make if he had a wife? his sayings and morals would still be the same, right? am I missing something?

    Also, our current view on women as equals to men did not exist until the beginning of the 20th century. So it makes total sense for the bible not to mention women in power, because most women were not in positions of power. Also as others have pointed out, the bible was written 100 to 400 years A.D. which of course would leave out most details.

    My main point of concern is that people seem to be taking the new testament too seriously. This is how I view it: The new testament has been written by a few different guys, who agree on some facts, but disagree on most. They cannot be seen as actual factual evidence, nor have they been written to be so. These books should, however, be seen metaphorically. The bible doesn't want to tell you stories about god's son. It wants to teach you morals. It teaches you the moral guidelines of our society, as well as how to be good towards others. The bible is full of great stories, but like Aesop's fables, you have to look past the words written, and get the meaning behind it.
     
    Back
    Top