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Religion is instilled in us

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Belief is human nature, we all tend to be attach to an ideology and a way of life. Even those who say they are atheist and don't believe in anything, is not being atheist in itself a belief a way of life that is followed.
 

Kenchiin

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I don't agree. You can believe whatever you want, of course, but that doesn't mean everyone believes in religion or something in particular.
Believing in science is also not the same, since religion and science are non-overlapping magisteria.
 

Oryx

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Yes, how far in the air are we talking about btw. Are you saying belief is not required because that is something that will for sure happen every time?

As far as any human can jump, they will fall down.

Atheists don't say they don't believe in anything - they say that given the evidence we have now, God does not exist. Just like given the evidence we have now, you will fall back down when you jump. Just like given the evidence we have now, the sun will rise tomorrow. There's a difference between simply believing something is true, the definition of faith you're using, and believing something is true absent any evidence that it is, the definition of faith that most everyone else uses. This is why the term "leap of faith" exists; you are told that you'll be fine, but you have no evidence so your leap is based on faith. This is why people can take things "on faith" - that phrase means "without any evidence other than a person's word".

The only difference between Christians and atheists when it comes to faith in gods is that we believe in one less god than you do.
 

obZen

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Belief is human nature, we all tend to be attach to an ideology and a way of life. Even those who say they are atheist and don't believe in anything, is not being atheist in itself a belief a way of life that is followed.

It depends. If an agnostic leans towards or away from theism, it may be an ideology.
But, an Atheist does not belief in a deity, no strings attached
People may have their own, personal beliefs, but being an Atheist doesn't grant you some obscure identity.
Just because someone doesn't belief in God shouldn't predispose them to a certain way of life
 

Zeffy

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I..I don't understand what you're trying to say. Religion is a form of belief, yes, but belief is not necessarily religion. Fundamentally, humans are a curious bunch. In order to satisfy this curiosity, we often end up believing rather than proving--because it's far easier to just believe, after all. I know I'm being too technical about this, but it's just baffling how you made a one-to-one correspondence between belief and religion when, in reality, it's far more complicated than that.
 
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Poki

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The difference between an atheist and a Christian, for example, is that we believe in things that actually exist. Yeah, I went there.

Not all beliefs are connected to religion, y'know.
 
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Yes, how far in the air are we talking about btw. Are you saying belief is not required because that is something that will for sure happen every time?

I guess I see where you're coming from, but there's a difference between faith and fact. People don't have faith in facts, because they already know it to be true. Faith stems from uncertainty; things that aren't universally known.
 

£

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As far as any human can jump, they will fall down.

one day Zeus is going to smite you into dust as you jump and MOCK His Righteousness. You won't come back down. You'll won't touch the Earth. The god of vacuum cleaning will simply suck you into the air.

Religion is still something we feel is important enough to have in debate threads and so to some degree we still all feel strongly enough about our religion/lack of it to have to strut into these topics and scream science!!!/religion!!! a few times in slightly more sophisticated keystrokes.

this genuinely isn't me rn even though it seems that way I LOVE YOU ALL. (on that basis feel free to add me to the list of deities as a god of benevolence or something like that. cash bribes/tributes only ta)
 

AxeBeard McBeardAxe

Jarl of the PokeCommunity
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I don't agree. You can believe whatever you want, of course, but that doesn't mean everyone believes in religion or something in particular.
Believing in science is also not the same, since religion and science are non-overlapping magisteria.

But that is, in turn, what you believe in. Not needing to have any particular IS your belief. This proves that OP is right, if only because of a nice little loophole.
 
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Not all beliefs are centered around a religion. You can be spiritual, believe in some form of an afterlife or a higher power without prescribing to any one religious belief or dogma. So, if anything is "instilled" in us, it would be a sense of spirituality, not specifically religion.
 
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I agree with your original post - as humans we tend to believe certain things. However, these do not necessarily have anything to do with with religion. People tell you something (often parents) and you take it on face value. A lot of wives tales continue to exist for this reason.

The placebo effect is also a good example of this type of belief. Who here has gone to the doctor with a cold (a viral infection) and left with a prescription for antibiotics (to treat a bacterial infection)? The antibiotics do nothing for the cold, yet some doctors prescribe them (because they're shortsighted idiots) to work as a placebo.

Yes, how far in the air are we talking about btw. Are you saying belief is not required because that is something that will for sure happen every time?

As it is the theory of gravity, it actually allows that possibility. We don't know for sure that one time you jump you won't come down, but all the evidence points to the contrary.
 

Tek

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Atheists don't say they don't believe in anything - they say that given the evidence we have now, God does not exist.


Did you mean to say that there is no scientific evidence proving God's existence?


Lack of proof is not proof of nonexistence. So to say that we have no scientific evidence of God's existence, and therefore God does not exist, well, that's a belief. It's certainly not good science, since the conclusion does not follow from the premise.




Besides that, spiritual questions are, by and large, outside the domain of scientific inquiry. I believe Einstein once said something along the lines of 'Science is not able to answer the question of God's existence, nor should it try to.'


There's a book called 'Quantum Questions' that contains the mystical insights shared by those who have pushed the boundaries of physics - Einstein, Schrodinger, Planck, etc. I find it fascinating and uplifting that the more deeply one penetrates into the nature of existence, the more one perceives some sort of Divine Order, a reality that transcends space and time.
 
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Oryx

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Did you mean to say that there is no scientific evidence proving God's existence?


Lack of proof is not proof of nonexistence. So to say that we have no scientific evidence of God's existence, and therefore God does not exist, well, that's a belief. It's certainly not good science, since the conclusion does not follow from the premise.




Besides that, spiritual questions are, by and large, outside the domain of scientific inquiry. I believe Einstein once said something along the lines of 'Science is not able to answer the question of God's existence, nor should it try to.'


There's a book called 'Quantum Questions' that contains the mystical insights shared by those who have pushed the boundaries of physics - Einstein, Schrodinger, Planck, etc. I find it fascinating and uplifting that the more deeply one penetrates into the nature of existence, the more one perceives some sort of Divine Order, a reality that transcends space and time.

Given the lack of evidence that it exists, unless evidence comes to light I will assume it doesn't. Just like I assume that there isn't a cosmic space kitten waiting outside my back door right now - my blinds are closed so technically there could be, but based on the lack of evidence for that viewpoint I'm going to go with no, there is no cosmic space kitten outside my back door.

The reason why I phrase it specifically that was is because it leaves it inherently open - if there begins to be a scientific consensus on God existing based on their inquiries, it allows my thoughts to change on the subject.
 

Tek

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Given the lack of evidence that it exists, unless evidence comes to light I will assume it doesn't. Just like I assume that there isn't a cosmic space kitten waiting outside my back door right now - my blinds are closed so technically there could be, but based on the lack of evidence for that viewpoint I'm going to go with no, there is no cosmic space kitten outside my back door.

The reason why I phrase it specifically that was is because it leaves it inherently open - if there begins to be a scientific consensus on God existing based on their inquiries, it allows my thoughts to change on the subject.

I kind of figured that's what you meant. It would be most accurate to say something like "Scientific evidence doesn't support the existence of a creator God, therefore such a God probably doesn't exist." If we are being truly scientific, we are open to the possibility that our understanding may change if new information becomes available.




However, I can't understate the importance of the notion that spiritual inquiry is fundamentally different from scientific inquiry. The scientific endeavor is primarily concerned with exteriors and surfaces, while the spiritual endeavor is concerned mostly with interiors and depth.


To be a little more clear, imagine a person whose brain activity is being monitored. We can see that certain neurotransmitters are active. We can see where the electrical activity is happening, for example, in the speech center or the fear center. These are all exterior realities, which we can map out.


But the map doesn't and can't reveal the person's interior depth. To know what thoughts are happening along with the fear response or the empathy response, you must talk to that person. In other words, they must disclose their interiors to you. And you will have an accurate picture of that person's interior as long as they are interpreting their depths accurately, and you are understanding them properly.




It's similar to the difference between studying society and studying culture. A social researcher (in the sense that I'm using 'social' - in contrast with 'cultural') would be concerned with the exterior structures, like how a tribal rain dance affects the observable, map-able behavior of the people. But a cultural researcher would be more concerned with what the rain dance means to the people; how they feel about it, how they understand it.


Both the interior and exterior components of the rain dance are related, but irreducible to each other. It's the same with a person's inner experience and their outer physiochemical behavior.


So, and this is my point, were we to try to use data about neurotransmitter and electrical activity in the brain to prove the specific details of a person's inner thought-stream, we'd be making a methodological error. Interior spaces simply don't disclose themselves to exterior methods of inquiry.
 

Tek

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Yea faith in past trials of that idea that you wont float the next time you jump

If by 'faith' you mean 'confidence' then I agree. You would be confident in the results of previous experiments, and you'd expect this one to be the same.

But we've been using the term differently. Belief without evidence is different than confidence in experimental data. But, I suppose it could be considered an act of faith to think that the current experiment will be the same as the previous ones, because there's no evidence until after the experiment is performed and analyzed.


Heh, of course, you've gotta have faith that you're awake and not dreaming. There's been almost a dozen times this year that I've joked that I was dreaming, wondered if I was dreaming, or was sure that I was not dreaming... only to wake up. And sometimes wake up again afterwards.
 
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Mark Kamill

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Uh no? Depending on your upbringing you might be instilled with various moral values connected heavily to whatever religion your family was brought up on, but as you grow up and create a view of the world, its up to you as a person to decide what and if you believe in something. There is nothing naturally predominant in the human subconcious that needs a higher being, except perhaps if they cannot logically come up with an answer for life that fufills them, and thus the need for said higher power is created.
 

Tree_x

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If by 'faith' you mean 'confidence' then I agree. You would be confident in the results of previous experiments, and you'd expect this one to be the same.

But we've been using the term differently. Belief without evidence is different than confidence in experimental data. But, I suppose it could be considered an act of faith to think that the current experiment will be the same as the previous ones, because there's no evidence until after the experiment is performed and analyzed.


Heh, of course, you've gotta have faith that you're awake and not dreaming. There's been almost a dozen times this year that I've joked that I was dreaming, wondered if I was dreaming, or was sure that I was not dreaming... only to wake up. And sometimes wake up again afterwards.

Well that is exactly what mean n.n because when we are using the term faith like a person of the christian religion uses it we are talking about them having confidence in there life experiment that this will happen so on and so forth

And yea the whole dreaming not dreaming thing is confusing even more now with computers now but i just leave at if I am sleeping I wonder where my last save point was :)

and as for installation mmm I look at it like just cause someones trying to program you doesn't mean you can hit cancel or abort once you realize it
 
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