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Programming!

Satoshi Ookami

Memento Mori
14,254
Posts
15
Years
Java's a dying language. Python's more popular now. The only real remaining uses for Java are Android and companies already stuck with Java.
I've seen a try to port Android to C# and the IDE with which you can make Android apps in C#...
I think Java will be used only for 3-4 years before everything will be swallowed by C# =)
 

Emilia1234

Relapsed
32
Posts
11
Years
  • Age 27
  • Seen Mar 8, 2013
I'm very excited for this coming May. I'm not the biggest fan of PHP, but I seem to have a PHP web-development job lined up! It'll be my first real programming job. I should maybe do some small practice projects before it starts, as I haven't used PHP practically since I learned it, save fiddling around with existing stuff like Wordpress and phpBB.
 

twocows

The not-so-black cat of ill omen
4,307
Posts
15
Years
That's the idea. Reasonably easy to read, and bugs will only show up in obvious places. :)



You saw the link in my post, right? It's still the most popular language it seems according to it.
Yeah, and FORTRAN is still used a lot, too. It was popular years ago, which means it'll still be used in businesses for years to come because they're not going to spend resources porting stuff for no reason.

I'm very excited for this coming May. I'm not the biggest fan of PHP, but I seem to have a PHP web-development job lined up! It'll be my first real programming job. I should maybe do some small practice projects before it starts, as I haven't used PHP practically since I learned it, save fiddling around with existing stuff like Wordpress and phpBB.
I'm sorry. I wouldn't wish a PHP job on my worst enemy.
 

Archenoth

The arch foe
467
Posts
12
Years
  • Seen Nov 6, 2020
This video is awesome...


I'm very excited for this coming May. I'm not the biggest fan of PHP, but I seem to have a PHP web-development job lined up! It'll be my first real programming job. I should maybe do some small practice projects before it starts, as I haven't used PHP practically since I learned it, save fiddling around with existing stuff like Wordpress and phpBB.

Awesome..! And good luck. PHP is quirky, but you can really hammer things out fast with it... Also if you need to work with MySQL databases a lot: https://github.com/Archenoth/DBroker /shameless plug
 
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IIMarckus

J946@5488AA97464
402
Posts
16
Years
  • Seen Feb 21, 2024
For instance, take #define macros. Yes, these can be abused and in a very ugly way, but at least the relationship is still 1-to-1; you can guarantee that unhelpfulmacroname is going to expand to the same thing every time.
Actually, you can't! Stuff is frequently defined in header files but anything you define can be clobbered by another header.

Code:
#include <a.h>
#include <b.h>
is not necessarily the same thing as
Code:
#include <b.h>
#include <a.h>

The preprocessor (specifically the combination of #include and #define) is one of C's biggest weaknesses, along with string handling and general vulnerability to buffer overflows. There is a neat proposal to implement modules for C/C++ in LLVM; I hope it gains traction.
Java's a dying language. Python's more popular now. The only real remaining uses for Java are Android and companies already stuck with Java.
I guess you've never been around companies that have fresh CS grads still believing in the wonders of Java. I have, and it's really disheartening. Better languages have been gaining ground in academia (along with some worse ones), but Java isn't going anywhere anytime soon…
 

Archenoth

The arch foe
467
Posts
12
Years
  • Seen Nov 6, 2020
I think I'm doing PHP for Computer Science 30. I can't exactly remember, but it doesn't look easy at all.
PHP is a multi-paradigm language. That pretty much means that you can code using it in quite a few different ways. So you can just write little snippets of code to insert something inline quickly, which tends to be ugly:
Code:
echo 2 + 2;
Or you can write functions anywhere to allow you to code in a procedural style.
Code:
function add($x, $y)
{
   return $x + $y;
}

echo add(2, 2);
Or you can go object oriented and create classes in very much the same way as Java.

Code:
class Math{
  function add($x, $y)
  {
     return $x + $y;
  }
}

$math = new Math();
echo $math->add(2, 2);

As long as you have a paradigm figured out, it is incredibly easy to write in PHP. Its API is quite easy to browse, and there is quite a bit of example code in the documentation. Also if you can't figure something out, most PHP problems can be solved easily with Google because they most likely have been asked about a billion times before you start having issues, so it's really easy to find answers.

Also, if you ever write code with errors that causes you to have a blank screen, check the server log, it will tell you what you did wrong.

That said, I'm warning you now, there are a fair amount of criticisms for the language, so if you write anything in it, you'll hear these from pretty much everyone.

And while these criticisms are true, they don't really detract from the fact that you can really get a lot accomplished with very little PHP code, and it will usually be relatively readable. Much more so than one of the languages that it got a lot of ideas from: Perl. (As much as I like the language.)

Protip
Pro Advice:

Take out the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v= in a youTube URL to embed it.

Dammit. Fixed. Thanks...
 
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SaniOKh

Too old for this stuff
592
Posts
17
Years
I do programming as a job :) .

At work, I use PHP5 with the Zend Framework, JavaScript, CSS, sometimes Java, VBScript and C#.
Outside of my job, I sometimes code little things in C++.

I actually started a Sonic fangame written in C++ using the SDL library two years ago, but ultimately I switched back to using Gamemaker for such projects, mostly because it's multi-platform now, and because the messiest parts are already taken care of, like collision detection, I never got it to work right in C++ without tremendously slowing down the game.
 

KingCharizard

C++ Developer Extraordinaire
1,229
Posts
14
Years
Yes I program, I use C++, C#, HTML(Not actually a programming language),CSS, Javascript, PHP, MYSQL, I know a little Java and I am thinking about studying another, haven't made my mind up on which yet..

I'd say go C first... The things you pick up when learning C can be translated to C++ relatively easily. Also C is a really small language. It will make you work with pointers, with memory allocation, and quite a few low-level functions. It is also really portable if you avoid using system calls.

As for between Java and Python...

http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html

I recommend Java because Java is a lot more popular, and a lot more ubiquitous... (Your C# knowledge would come in handy when learning it too.) It has a lot more real-world usage currently (I mean job-wise.) so knowing it would be an asset if you were to become a professional developer. But you could choose Python too if you want, but I can't really speak for Python since I don't know it.

I'm somewhat late to this discussion but I think your advice is for lack of a better word is incorrect...

I think any new programmer should avoid C at all costs, There is no need to actually learn it unless you planing on programming for iOS(Objective C) or something else that will only allow you to use C. I think even the iOS devices support more than just C(I could be wrong). Also learning C can make it more difficult to learn some concepts of C++ also C teaches bad programming habits and they will be hard to unlearn when learning or using C++
.
While your argument for C is valid
Also C is a really small language. It will make you work with pointers, with memory allocation, and quite a few low-level functions.
C++ will also teach you these things and then some. While C++ is a huge language and a great undertaking once you know it and have grasped the concepts of the language any other language you chose to learn will be easy.. This is just my opinion..
 
Last edited:
56
Posts
11
Years
  • Seen May 24, 2021
While your argument for C is valid
C++ will also teach you these things and then some. While C++ is a huge language and a great undertaking once you know it and have grasped the concepts of the language any other language you chose to learn will be easy.. This is just my opinion..

I have to agree with this assessment, even though I am no fan of C++ (or C for that matter), C does seem like a bad choice, with C# experience already present another language focusing on Object Oriented design seems like a good choice.

Though the question still asks what the goal of learning the new language?
If you want new viewpoints and expand the way you think I'd probably suggest something entirely different (A functional language perhaps)
If you want to actually learn something practical or are interested in system level programming, embedded applications, game development etc. then C++ (and sometimes C) might be the right choice.
If you are just doing it for fun/interest there may be be other unmanaged/hybrid (D - for example) that are worth considering.
 
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Archenoth

The arch foe
467
Posts
12
Years
  • Seen Nov 6, 2020
I agree. If it was just for learning programming in general, I would have suggested a Lisp like Clojure, since it has a completely different paradigm and has a lot of real-world application.

I think every programmer should learn at least one functional language, if only to gain insight into new ways to implement things in efficient ways in languages that support it.

I'm somewhat late to this discussion but I think your advice is for lack of a better word is incorrect...

I think any new programmer should avoid C at all costs, There is no need to actually learn it unless you planing on programming for iOS(Objective C) or something else that will only allow you to use C. I think even the iOS devices support more than just C(I could be wrong). Also learning C can make it more difficult to learn some concepts of C++ also C teaches bad programming habits and they will be hard to unlearn when learning or using C++
.
While your argument for C is valid
C++ will also teach you these things and then some. While C++ is a huge language and a great undertaking once you know it and have grasped the concepts of the language any other language you chose to learn will be easy.. This is just my opinion..

Uhm... No offense but you should really re-read what I was responding to...

He was asking between C and C++, and learning C is definitely an asset to someone who eventually intends to be C++ programmer since the same concepts from C can be used when coding in C++. So while you are learning C, you are actually also learning C++ concepts. And since C is the smaller language, it is less of a hurdle to get to, a quicker payoff for learning something. So why not learn the smaller language with the same concepts so you can build on those if you choose to continue?

Also no, Objective C and C are not even remotely similar outside of the C-like code structure. Objective C is a high-level Object oriented language, whereas C is a Medium-level (Some will say low-level) procedural language.
 
Last edited:
56
Posts
11
Years
  • Seen May 24, 2021
And since C is the smaller language, it is less of a hurdle to get to, a quicker payoff for learning something. So why not learn the smaller language with the same concepts so you can build on those if you choose to continue?

That isn't really a good point, imo, the first chapters of most C++ text books will likely look very similar to those of a C one. Just because C++ has a lot of complex language features, that does not mean that the fundamental ones become more difficult to learn.
C and C++ are different languages so it's simple really. If you want to learn C++ then you should learn C++ not C.
It might be easier to learn C in it's entirety than it is with C++ but you don't start studying a language in it's entirety you go with small incremental steps.
 

Archenoth

The arch foe
467
Posts
12
Years
  • Seen Nov 6, 2020
I see where you're coming from, and you are right. If you want to learn C++, go with C++.

But if you are unsure of which of the two you want to go for (Like the guy I was responding to was.), why not pick the one that takes less effort to learn and aids in learning the other?
 

KingCharizard

C++ Developer Extraordinaire
1,229
Posts
14
Years
Also no, Objective C and C are not even remotely similar outside of the C-like code structure. Objective C is a high-level Object oriented language, whereas C is a Medium-level (Some will say low-level) procedural language.

The same comparison could be made with C and C#.

I think C should be avoided, you obviously support it. Its ultimately up to him what he chooses, Enough said...

I see where you're coming from, and you are right. If you want to learn C++, go with C++.

But if you are unsure of which of the two you want to go for (Like the guy I was responding to was.), why not pick the one that takes less effort to learn and aids in learning the other?


because it wont do him much good. C is still used but not alot anymore. C++ is the industry standard it doesnt matter if is games, software, apps etc is widely supported and documented. So why have him learn a language which wont be of much use to him..
 
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Archenoth

The arch foe
467
Posts
12
Years
  • Seen Nov 6, 2020
because it wont do him much good. C is still used but not alot anymore. C++ is the industry standard it doesnt matter if is games, software, apps etc is widely supported and documented. So why have him learn a language which wont be of much use to him..

C is less used huh?

https://github.com/languages
http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html

And yes this is anecdotal, so things may be different for you but... I also see a lot more jobs out there that want C experience than I do C++ experience.
 

Darkhaven3

Jackass
247
Posts
15
Years
I've used C for years, and I can hardly see any reason why I should move to C++; I can easily see my code becoming obfuscated and confusing extremely quickly with basically any "feature" (read: liability) that C++ "adds" to C.

You could say "why not just use the C subset of C++?" But that would be missing my point, I think. In other words, "C++ sux, C is king", yadda yadda, you know my schpiel already.
 

Satoshi Ookami

Memento Mori
14,254
Posts
15
Years
I've used C for years, and I can hardly see any reason why I should move to C++; I can easily see my code becoming obfuscated and confusing extremely quickly with basically any "feature" (read: liability) that C++ "adds" to C.

You could say "why not just use the C subset of C++?" But that would be missing my point, I think. In other words, "C++ sux, C is king", yadda yadda, you know my schpiel already.
I understand you completely. I feel C++ was too rushed and it wasn't so well made... like it was a C with forced objects...
But with C++11, it might prove useful.
 

Serene Grace

Pokémon Trainer
3,428
Posts
14
Years
Just finished about two weeks worth of studying into Python. I won't say I know the language explicitly, but I have learnt a lot and for the most part, I like it. It's a quirky language, which is the best way to describe it for me!

...and I've given in and bought a C++ book too. I know C++ sucks but I really want to know the ins and outs of an unmanaged language before starting my degree in Computer Science and while it may not be the best of languages according to some, it's good enough for most professionals so I'll give it a whirl and see.
 

KingCharizard

C++ Developer Extraordinaire
1,229
Posts
14
Years
...and I've given in and bought a C++ book too. I know C++ sucks

It does not suck. Those people here who are against it couldnt or wouldnt try to understand the language. Its got its bad things as well as good, every language does but it wouldnt be used for countless games/game engines if it was such a bad language. Just look at EPIC Games and the Unreal Engine(C++ at its finest)... C++ is a great language for those who can understand it and use it properly
 
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27,733
Posts
14
Years
I tried compiling some open-source binaries with C++ and I must say, it's very complicated, even for a first-timer. (inb4 compiling isnt for n00bz)

Overall, programming is the weakest computer skill for me to work with. I have tried again and again to get a general fit for programming (through languages such as VB.NET, C#, and C++ as mentioned above), but I just can't seem to get the hang of it. Perhaps I need to take some classes on programming before I try again. :\
 

KingCharizard

C++ Developer Extraordinaire
1,229
Posts
14
Years
I tried compiling some open-source binaries with C++ and I must say, it's very complicated, even for a first-timer. (inb4 compiling isnt for n00bz)

Overall, programming is the weakest computer skill for me to work with. I have tried again and again to get a general fit for programming (through languages such as VB.NET, C#, and C++ as mentioned above), but I just can't seem to get the hang of it. Perhaps I need to take some classes on programming before I try again. :\

Visual Studio could probably help you with your problem.
 
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