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Help Me Counter Some Threats?

ShivaDF

The Scooter-riding Artist
482
Posts
14
Years
    • Seen Aug 25, 2017
    So... I'm just getting into competitive battling and my team and I are doing well, but there are two pokémon that I have a lot of trouble countering: Manaphy and Scizor. If one or both of these pokémon is on my opponent's team, especially if paired with a Gale Wings Talonflame, it's like I can't do anything. Can you help me with the weak spots on my team? I guess I don't really need to say this, but it's standard battle format.

    Dr. Death (Absol) (M) @ Absolite
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 244 Atk / 6 Def / 6 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Superpower
    - Sucker Punch
    - Pursuit
    - Swords Dance

    Magic Bouncer and speedy physical attacker. Pretty self-explanatory.

    Galanthia (Froslass) (F) @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Cursed Body
    EVs: 2 HP / 252 SpA / 2 SpD / 252 Spe
    Mild Nature
    - Ice Beam
    - Shadow Ball
    - Destiny Bond
    - Spikes

    Suicide lead, sets up Spikes, glass cannon.

    Luka (Clefable) (F) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Magic Guard
    EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 16 SpA / 120 SpD
    Modest Nature
    - Moonblast
    - Moonlight
    - Cosmic Power
    - Stored Power

    The star of my team. If given time to set up, she takes out pretty much anything. However, when I come up against a Scizor paired with Gale Wings Talonflame, or if Manaphy uses Tail Glow, she never has time to bulk up. If you're wondering why she has Moonlight instead of Soft-Boiled, it is because I've always felt like in-game, it is so hard to get that move on Clefable that I personally don't use it.

    Asperatus (Dusknoir) (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Adamant Nature
    - Ice Punch
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Substitute
    - Focus Punch

    Bulky SubPuncher. He quickly takes out the Kami trio and Ferrothorn. If he goes down, Clefable generally deals with the rest of the pokémon. I know many people say offensive Dusknoir is not viable, but it is working for me so far because nobody expects it. If possible, I do not want to replace this pokémon.

    Uropygi (Gliscor) (F) @ Toxic Orb
    Ability: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP / 6 Def / 200 SpD / 50 Spe
    Careful Nature
    - Acrobatics
    - Earthquake
    - Toxic
    - Roost

    Self-explanatory again. Takes out Heatran if Dusnoir doesn't. Not a Substitute build, though. I like to be able to attack Flying-types so i have an attack other than Earthquake.

    Supercell (Starmie) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 245 HP / 10 Def / 4 SpA / 4 SpD / 245 Spe
    Calm Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Rapid Spin
    - Reflect Type
    - Recover

    Reflect Type Starmie. I use Reflect Type to deal with Electric-type pokemon, and I try to use Thunderbolt to take out Talonflame, but again, if Scizor is also on my opponent's team, it always takes Starmie out.

    I would appreciate any critique!
    Also, this is so lame, but where do people get their animations from?! XD
     

    PlatinumDude

    Nyeh?
    12,964
    Posts
    13
    Years
  • What's the deal with some of your Pokemon's EV spreads?

    While Superpower does let Absol run through Ferrothorn more easily, it's not that necessary due to the Steel nerf; Steels are now hit neutrally by Dark (and Ghost). Moreover, thanks to the OR/AS move tutors, Knock Off, Superpower and Play Rough are now legal on it:
    -Swords Dance
    -Sucker Punch
    -Knock Off/Baton Pass
    -Play Rough/Baton Pass
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
    Item: Absolite

    If you intend to make Froslass a suicide lead (and that's not very easy to do with team preview), it must run a Timid nature to outspeed as much stuff as you can:
    -Spikes
    -Taunt
    -Destiny Bond
    -Icy Wind/Ice Beam/Shadow Ball
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe
    Item: Focus Sash
    Ability: Cursed Body

    Unaware Clefable does fine against Manaphy, as it can ignore its Tail Glow boosts. It has an even better chance of doing so with a Calm nature and 84 Special Defense EVs. While Stored Power seems tempting to use, it takes a bit too much time to get going; Mega Latias does Stored Power abuse much better because of its better bulk:
    -Calm Mind
    -Moonblast
    -Moonlight/Wish
    -Heal Bell/Protect/Flamethrower
    Nature: Calm/Bold
    EVs: 252 HP/172 Def/84 SDef or 248 HP/252 Def/8 SDef
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Unaware

    or
    -Stealth Rock
    -Moonblast
    -Fire Blast/Thunder Wave
    -Moonlight
    Nature: Calm
    EVs: 252 HP/172 Def/84 SDef
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Unaware

    To put things bluntly, Dusknoir sucks. It doesn't have a good Ghost STAB and it's not that strong. Its good defenses are let down by its bad HP. Clefable can't be the only thing that checks/counters Manaphy, so Grass and Electric Pokemon like Ferrothorn, Raikou, Amoonguss, and Thundurus are good backups against it. Thundurus also has a nice bonus of resisting most of Scizor's commonly used moves and can pressure it with Thunderbolt:

    Ferrothorn
    -Spikes/Stealth Rock
    -Leech Seed
    -Gyro Ball/Thunder Wave
    -Power Whip/Protect
    Nature: Relaxed
    EVs: 252 HP/88 Def/168 SDef
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Iron Barbs

    Raikou:
    -Thunderbolt
    -Volt Switch
    -Hidden Power (Ice/Grass)
    -Shadow Ball/Extrasensory
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 SAtk/4 SDef/252 Spe
    Item: Choice Specs/Assault Vest

    Amoonguss:
    -Spore
    -Giga Drain
    -Clear Smog/Sludge Bomb/Hidden Power (Fire)
    -Foul Play/Sludge Bomb/Hidden Power (Fire)
    Nature: Bold
    EVs: 252 HP/136 Def/120 SDef
    Item: Black Sludge
    Ability: Regenerator

    Thundurus:
    -Thunderbolt
    -Hidden Power (Ice)
    -Focus Blast/Psychic/Taunt
    -Thunder Wave/Taunt
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe
    Item: Leftovers/Life Orb
    Ability: Prankster

    or
    -Nasty Plot
    -Thunderbolt
    -Hidden Power (Ice/Flying)
    -Thunder Wave/Focus Blast/Substitute
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe
    Item: Life Orb/Leftovers
    Ability: Prankster

    or
    -Thunderbolt
    -Hidden Power (Ice)
    -Knock Off
    -Superpower/Thunder Wave
    Nature: Naive
    EVs: 76 Atk/180 SAtk/252 Spe
    Item: Life Orb

    Gliscor can stall break very effectively; a specially defensive Swords Dance variant lets Gliscor muscle past Mega Sableye. While Fling + Acrobatics seems tempting, Fling becomes a wasted moveslot once the Toxic Orb is flung away:
    -Swords Dance
    -Earthquake
    -Knock Off/Facade
    -Roost
    Nature: Careful
    EVs: 252 HP/200 SDef/56 Spe
    Item: Toxic Orb
    Ability: Poison Heal

    Scald is preferred on Reflect Type Starmie because the 30% burn chance outweighs the extra power Thunderbolt has (when Starmie is neither Water nor Electric). Not only that, Scald has good coverage by itself, while running Thunderbolt as a lone offensive attack leaves you walled by Ground Pokemon. Reflect Type's main use is to make Starmie not bait against Ferrothorn (as Grass/Steel resists itself), Tyranitar and Bisharp (Dark happens to resist Dark, so Starmie won't become Pursuit bait this way). That way, once Starmie Reflect Types either of them, it can proceed to spam Scald to fish for a burn on any of them:
    -Scald
    -Rapid Spin
    -Reflect Type
    -Recover
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 248 HP/8 Def/252 Spe
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure

    And as for how to deal with Scizor, a Fire Pokemon is your best friend here. An example here is Volcarona, which appreciates Starmie's Rapid Spinning duties:
    -Quiver Dance
    -Bug Buzz/Hidden Power (Ground)
    -Fire Blast
    -Giga Drain
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 72 HP/252 SAtk/184 Spe
    Item: Life Orb/Lum Berry
    Ability: Flame Body
     
    Last edited:

    ShivaDF

    The Scooter-riding Artist
    482
    Posts
    14
    Years
    • Seen Aug 25, 2017
    Thank you very much!

    Absol
    -Swords Dance
    -Sucker Punch
    -Knock Off
    -Play Rough
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
    Item: Absolite

    Clefable
    -Calm Mind
    -Moonblast
    -Moonlight
    -Heal Bell
    Nature: Calm
    EVs: 252 HP/172 Def/84 SDef or 248 HP/252 Def/8 SDef
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Unaware

    I suppose I'll need Heal Bell on Clefable because everyone wants to poison it.

    Gliscor
    -Swords Dance
    -Earthquake
    -Knock Off/Facade
    -Roost
    Nature: Careful
    EVs: 252 HP/200 SDef/56 Spe
    Item: Toxic Orb
    Ability: Poison Heal

    Starmie
    -Scald
    -Rapid Spin
    -Reflect Type
    -Recover
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 248 HP/8 Def/252 Spe
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure

    Volcanroa
    -Quiver Dance
    -Bug Buzz/
    -Fire Blast
    -Giga Drain
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 72 HP/252 SAtk/184 Spe
    Item: Lum Berry
    Ability: Flame Body

    And Thundrus/Raikou/Ferrothorn.

    Now I think all of these are great sets, but are you sure your replacements for Dusknoir can effectively combat a Gale Wings Talonflame with its priority? Or will Starmie be able to do that effectively?
     

    PlatinumDude

    Nyeh?
    12,964
    Posts
    13
    Years
  • Thank you very much!

    Absol
    -Swords Dance
    -Sucker Punch
    -Knock Off
    -Play Rough
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
    Item: Absolite

    Clefable
    -Calm Mind
    -Moonblast
    -Moonlight
    -Heal Bell
    Nature: Calm
    EVs: 252 HP/172 Def/84 SDef or 248 HP/252 Def/8 SDef
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Unaware

    I suppose I'll need Heal Bell on Clefable because everyone wants to poison it.

    Gliscor
    -Swords Dance
    -Earthquake
    -Knock Off/Facade
    -Roost
    Nature: Careful
    EVs: 252 HP/200 SDef/56 Spe
    Item: Toxic Orb
    Ability: Poison Heal

    Starmie
    -Scald
    -Rapid Spin
    -Reflect Type
    -Recover
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 248 HP/8 Def/252 Spe
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure

    Volcanroa
    -Quiver Dance
    -Bug Buzz/
    -Fire Blast
    -Giga Drain
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 72 HP/252 SAtk/184 Spe
    Item: Lum Berry
    Ability: Flame Body

    And Thundrus/Raikou/Ferrothorn.

    Now I think all of these are great sets, but are you sure your replacements for Dusknoir can effectively combat a Gale Wings Talonflame with its priority? Or will Starmie be able to do that effectively?
    Other checks/counters to Talonflame include Heatran and Wash Rotom. As for previous suggestions, Thundurus also helps vs. Talonflame, as it can cripple it with Thunder Wave. Gliscor also fares decently against non-Choice Band Talonflame.

    Heatran:
    -Stealth Rock
    -Lava Plume
    -Toxic
    -Taunt/Roar/Protect
    Nature: Calm/Timid
    EVs: 248 HP/192 SDef/68 Spe or 248 HP/8 SAtk/252 Spe
    Item: Leftovers

    or
    -Magma Storm
    -Earth Power
    -Taunt
    -Toxic/Solar Beam
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe
    Item: Leftovers/Power Herb

    or
    -Fire Blast/Magma Storm
    -Flash Cannon/Hidden Power (Ice)/Stone Edge
    -Earth Power
    -Stealth Rock
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe
    Item: Air Balloon

    or
    -Overheat/Fire Blast
    -Flash Cannon
    -Earth Power
    -Stone Edge/Ancient Power
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 28 HP/252 SAtk/228 Spe
    Item: Choice Scarf

    Wash Rotom:
    -Volt Switch
    -Hydro Pump
    -Will-o-Wisp
    -Pain Split/Rest
    Nature: Bold
    EVs: 248 HP/252 Def/8 SDef
    Item: Leftovers/Chesto Berry
     

    PlatinumDude

    Nyeh?
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    Posts
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    Years
  • Alternatively, you can give it the ability Magic Guard, which ignores damage from non-attacking moves.

    Clefable really needs Unaware in this team because as the OP mentioned, it originally struggled with Manaphy and Scizor, and with the former, Clefable can ignore Manaphy's Tail Glow boosts and use it as bait for its Calm Minds.
     
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