Suggestion: Privatize unapproved Roleplays/Challenges/Fan Clubs

So I've been browsing around PokeCommunity and I've seen threads that show approved/unapproved challenges, roleplays, and fan clubs. Long story short, I don't think unapproved challenges, roleplays, and fan clubs should be publicized.

First of all, if this was really necessary to have, then other sections where moderator approval is needed for a thread to be posted would have this too. Trade Shops, ROM Hacking Hub, Hacks Studio, Sideshow Showcase, Research & Development, Tools, Tutorials & Resources, Games Showcase, and Progressing Games don't have an unapproved/approved threads list, so there doesn't seem to be a point to having them in Roleplay Corner, Fan Clubs & Groups, and Challenges, at least to me.

Second of all, there's no purpose to publicize the reasons why they're denied. I'm assuming that creators of denied threads will get a PM from the corresponding moderator explaining to them why it was denied. PMing is the easiest way to explain this, as they will receive a notification if they log on anytime after posting the thread. There's no reason why users who stumble upon these threads should know why they were denied, because if the unapproved threads are private, I think the reasons should also be private.

The approval thread in RPC has a second use, as it tells members when new roleplays have been made public. Normally, only brief feedback is given in the thread when it a Roleplay is declined, if there is lots to fix up then a PM is also sent.

Since the content of the thread isn't secure, and our comments rather level and to the point, I dont see much advantage to taking everything to PM. it's nice to have things all in one place.

Magic said:

The approval thread in RPC has a second use, as it tells members when new roleplays have been made public. Normally, only brief feedback is given in the thread when it a Roleplay is declined, if there is lots to fix up then a PM is also sent.

Since the content of the thread isn't secure, and our comments rather level and to the point, I dont see much advantage to taking everything to PM. it's nice to have things all in one place.

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Don't get me wrong, I have no problems with announcing approved threads. But still, if a user's thread is unapproved, it's most likely because they haven't read the rules of the section, and they probably wouldn't read the post that tells them why their roleplay/challenge/fan club was denied either, since both are stickied.

User 101 said:

Don't get me wrong, I have no problems with announcing approved threads. But still, if a user's thread is unapproved, it's most likely because they haven't read the rules of the section, and they probably wouldn't read the post that tells them why their roleplay/challenge/fan club was denied either, since both are stickied.

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Yes indeed, perhaps we're being somewhat lazy in that regard - but we would expect people to be able to notice/read the rules, and if they had they'd find the thread. It's all swings and roundabouts I guess ><.

Most new users manage fine, generally the RPs that don't fit the rules are by people who disappear shortly after.

I'm only speaking for Challenges, but it's not meant to be a means of embarrassment or anything for the user. But with as many challenges that come in for approval, it's much easier on the moderator to use a single thread and not have to privately PM every single user that didn't make it though. I once was away for a week and came back to about 13 threads that needed approval and majority did not get that. That would have taken quite a bit of time to send the messages necessary to inform those people. We usually offer advice in the thread about how exactly to go about changing the thread to fit the guidelines of the forum.

Also, most people that tend to submit challenges that end up not getting approved are like...never seen again. Seriously, if I looked back at the unapproved challenges thread right now and looked at all my posts, I can tell you who is and isn't still here haha. Most aren't, though.

I have, however, at some points considered changing the way I posted in there to mentioning the name of the challenge rather than the user themselves, but a change like that would be up to Necrum at this point. But perhaps that would solve a bit of your query, as only the moderator and the thread creator would know the name of the challenge so whoever made it would (hopefully) know that it's their challenge that didn't get approved.

I...have to agree with the OP on this one. Yes, I can understand moderators not intending for it to come off as embarrassing, but it definitely has the option to become that. As it doesn't pertain to other users other than the moderator and the user in question, these kind of matters should be dealt with privately and kept within the confines of users involved.

Laziness and convenience really shouldn't be a reason to have it publicized. To be perfectly blunt, is a few extra clicks and minutes of your time really that much to ask for in these kind of situations? Given, Alli's situation listed above is more on the extreme end of things, but I still think the time and effort should be made properly and in the right manner when it comes to handling these kind of situations, which personally I believe they should be done privately instead of publicly.

I don't think that users should be generalized as being those users that would up and leave after a challenge/RP/club was submitted and never bare witness to the publication of their thread's rejection. Granted if what you say is true, then embarrassment wouldn't ensue, but for the minority of users that are passionate about what they do and do stay on the site, well...I would personally be embarrassed to see my thread publicly rejected.

The problem with any ideas we implement is that they need to work for the majority, not the minority. We can't make changes that effect how the moderators run their areas if it only helps a select few people and then makes the work of the moderators more tedious, especially in areas like Challenges or RPC where threads pile quickly and that's a lot of work to handle if even five of ten threads are declined.

If a member is so passionate about the area, they'd take the time to check that their thread was declined and then fix it. If they don't bother reading the rules or checking the approval thread, then they weren't really that passionate about their idea.

So what you're saying then is that it's okay for the user to be embarrassed? Because if kept the way it is then that's still going to happen.

As Alli suggested near the end, what should be done is the name of the challenge/RP/club is said without the name of the thread's creator so that he or she may stay anonymous to the public, but the moderator can keep the convenience factor.

I don't recall using the word "embarrassed" in my post. If you read it, my post says that the benefits of this only affect a minority of people and cause more work for the moderators whose current method of information dissemination is fine for the majority of members that post to the area.

The rate of thread submissions that require time, effort, and care for the moderators to go through to approve is large enough that having to further commit to explaining via PM why their thread was declined is a bigger task than you think. If the members check the approval thread and see why they were declined, they can fix it and re-submit. Nobody is insulting their work by doing so and taking things so seriously on a forum is a bit silly.

Magic put it best: if the thread warrants a PM, they PM the member. If it only requires brief feedback, it gets posted to the approval thread for fixing. They're doing what they need to when there's a problem to give help to the members in both situations.

Myself, Doctor and Skymin will have a think about tweaks/changes. The current system is an old one, but seems to have worked well for our members in RPC.

I'm saying that embarrassment is a sub result for some people, as they may take it personally seeing their name put in that kind of limelight, hence why I equated it with the minority in my post. I wasn't putting words in your mouth, don't worry. You are right that users can PM them if they want a further clarification on the matter if need be; however, what I wrote in my last post that reiterated what Alli said is what I am pushing for to stop further embarrassments that a user might self perceive or how others may perceive him or her.

You guys have brought up some things I forgot to think about, and I'll admit, I forgot to think about the amount of time it would take to send all those PMS.

But what I'm saying is that if a member's roleplay/challenge/fan club is denied, more than likely what happened is they didn't read the rules, and if they didn't read the rules, which would be a stickied thread in every section, they more than likely would not read any other stickied thread. So, there's not really a point to posting something that the member is oblivious to. And, if it's expected that people were to read the rules of each section, then it should be expected that no rule-breaking threads would be created unless the user intentionally meant to break the rules. But, members don't always read the rules, and that leads to the creation of rule-breaking threads. Also, I know from experience that the Trade Corner mods send PMs to users approving/disapproving their Trade Shops, and that's one of the most active sections on PC, so they have a lot of threads to deal with. And, a passionate user doesn't normally break rules, and yes, I know that passionate users can makes small mistakes, but most of the unapproved challenges/roleplays/fan clubs have major mistakes.

User 101 said:

But what I'm saying is that if a member's roleplay/challenge/fan club is denied, more than likely what happened is they didn't read the rules, and if they didn't read the rules, which would be a stickied thread in every section, they more than likely would not read any other stickied thread. So, there's not really a point to posting something that the member is oblivious to. And, if it's expected that people were to read the rules of each section, then it should be expected that no rule-breaking threads would be created unless the user intentionally meant to break the rules. But, members don't always read the rules, and that leads to the creation of rule-breaking threads. Also, I know from experience that the Trade Corner mods send PMs to users approving/disapproving their Trade Shops, and that's one of the most active sections on PC, so they have a lot of threads to deal with. And, a passionate user doesn't normally break rules, and yes, I know that passionate users can makes small mistakes, but most of the unapproved challenges/roleplays/fan clubs have major mistakes.

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Speaking for Challenges only again, from experience, the people that don't read the rules or other stickies never seem to resurface again. :/ And the few that didn't read the rules, but notice "hey! where's my thread?" usually contacted me about it and I told them to check that thread and to let me know if they need any help improving on whatever I mentioned in the unapproved thread.

I also want to point out that in the case of Trade Corner, there are two moderators and a super mod in that section. They have the man power to PM the users and that's good for them and all, but Challenges and Fan Clubs have one moderator which goes back to the point of it being a lot of work.

I wouldn't be opposed to a system that sent a PM automatically when the thread doesn't get unapproved, similar to how a PM sends when a warning or infraction is sent. Honestly, I see that as being the best solution in this situation. But for the time being, I am pretty content with the way things currently are. It has served its purpose pretty well more often than it's had any repercussions mentioned in this thread, honestly. This is probably the first time anyone's really seemed to have had an issue with it. For what it's worth though, Necrum and I are discussing any further changes that may or may not happen with it, so don't think nothing's come of this, haha.

But I am gonna be looking at Audy on that auto-PM thing for this... ;)

The way I'm doing this for clubs is not meant to put the user in embarrassment. Threads like mine, Challenges, and RPC are not supposed to be treated as a wall of shame for members who had their threads denied. It's actually meant to inform members if their threads were approved or denied. I figured it would be easier to inform members of their status of their submitted clubs. In the case of approved threads, they all have a link to the thread as a form of advertising. For denial threads, I don't try to explain the reason in detail. I do that when I send a PM to the member. Nobody really needs to know exactly why their thread was denied, those details are between me and the member :P

There will always be members who won't read the rules/guide/etc in sections, but that's okay. Mods are there to help out for that reason.

I am all in for the auto PM feature though. It would be a hell lot easier.

On top of what Magic has already said, our approved/denied thread in the Roleplay Corner also serves to let the other mods know that the thread has been looked at. There are three of us, so if we didn't have the thread we would need to message or post in our private staff threads anyways to let each other know so no double modding occurs. It's a long way around. But sure, if members have a problem with the way things work now, our "laziness" shouldn't be an obstacle.

The system we use is indeed old, so we can investigate what the roleplayers in particular think about it nowadays :) I haven't heard any of our regulars complain, but maybe it is because they haven't been given an easy accessible medium to do so in. We'll see now.