[Spoilers] Ash-Greninja

I think they could have picked a better Pokemon than this ugly thing, and honestly I miss the days when Ash didn't need an unquantifiably overpowered Pokemon in order to win battles. This thing is worse than his Charizard.



Unless they're building up to something with this for Sun and Moon, I can't see why they didn't just give Ash a Mega Evolution either, and had him struggle to control that. This would have worked just as well with his Charizard, and whilst I'm sick of seeing that thing, it would have served as a nice counterpoint to Alain. Or his Sceptile to make his rivalry with Sawyer more interesting.

Ash-Greninja is all over the place. It's not an example of good character development because there is no tangible progress, and it's working its way up to having an insane amount of plot armour. I don't like it and I don't think that's going to change somehow. I'm almost looking forward to Ash being reset to default and leaving all his Pokemon except Pikachu behind when he moves to Alola.

^ One of my friends doesn't like it either, or rather they said "If Ash can do that now, then what is that power, where did it come from, and why did it wait until Kalos?"

I actually find it pretty cool, and it's one of the reasons why I'm watching more of XY&Z lately! Though, I do agree that it's pretty random. I think one of the reasons why it's cool to me is just because for the last... probably two anime series, I've had really low expectations of Pokemon as an anime. We haven't ever seen anything like this from Ash before, and while that does make it seem really random (and it is pretty overpowered :x), it's also cool to have this character finally be focusing on something that isn't just "GOTTA GET TO MY NEXT GYM BATTLE".

I honestly didn't care too much about Greninja at all before this, and was also kind of like "Why did they have to pick that one? Why not Charizard? Why this" but it's grown on me since all this started, I suppose.

Really curious to see where it goes, and my one complaint is how much power it gives them. Like, Ash almost freakin' lost it in one of the recent episodes, and it makes it seem like regardless of who they face now, Greninja can kick it's butt. x-x Idk, but it's still interesting to watch, and I like that Alain is trying to help figure it out.

I wasn't sure about Satoshi-Gekkouga at first (the design took some time to grow on me), but I like how the anime staff has been handling it. This is the first thing in years to actually give Satoshi some character development, and that's made XY&Z more enjoyable to watch. One of my stated problems with XY, as Satoshi said above, is that Satoshi hasn't had much to focus on besides the next Gym battle. Satoshi-Gekkouga gives him a goal outside of that, much like Shinji in did for him back in DP.

And then there's it's power: fighting Alan's Mega Lizardon, able to go head-to-head with Carne's Mega Sirknight and not lose instantly, fighting (and, presumably, defeating) Urup's Mega Yukinooh in the next episode. The anime usually likes to play "David and Goliath" with Satoshi against tough opponents, so it's nice to see him finally capable of fighting them head on instead of being the clear underdog. I just love that Satoshi has a truly powerful Pokémon this time around, amidst a fully-evolved team (well, excepting Pikachu).

Meloetta said:

Unless they're building up to something with this for Sun and Moon, I can't see why they didn't just give Ash a Mega Evolution either, and had him struggle to control that. This would have worked just as well with his Charizard, and whilst I'm sick of seeing that thing, it would have served as a nice counterpoint to Alain. Or his Sceptile to make his rivalry with Sawyer more interesting

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My personal theory is that the writers wanted Satoshi to have a Mega, but didn't want to break the tradition of Satoshi advertising Pokémon exclusive to that generation. And, aside from Diance (a legendary), there aren't any sixth-generation Pokémon with a Mega Evolution. So this is the compromise. Bringing back Lizardon or Jukain, even as Mega Evolutions, undermines that. And for what it's worth, I don't see this storyline dramatically changing if Satoshi-Gekkouga were replaced with Mega Lizardon Y or Mega Jukain.

And for all the complaints – not yours, just in general – that Satoshi-Gekkouga is an asspull, I'd argue that it would be the same if Satoshi were to break over a decade of consistent characterization (since Houen) to bring back Lizardon, or any other old Pokémon of his.

Ash-Greninja is all over the place. It's not an example of good character development because there is no tangible progress, and it's working its way up to having an insane amount of plot armour. I don't like it and I don't think that's going to change somehow. I'm almost looking forward to Ash being reset to default and leaving all his Pokemon except Pikachu behind when he moves to Alola.

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Satoshi-Gekkouga being "all over the place" is kinda the point, I think, because it's effectiveness depends on how in sync Satoshi and Gekkouga are. This is representative of the difficulty that Satoshi is facing in learning to master it. I'd argue that you see more visual evidence of their progress than you would in a normal Mega Evolution, since Satoshi-Gekkouga reaches its "perfected" form whenever the two are completely bonded.

Lizardo said:

This is the first thing in years to actually give Satoshi some character development

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That right there is partially why this has made XY&Z more interesting to me, because some of us that actually like Satoshi have been waiting for years for him to have some level of character development. Now we're finally getting it, and people are complaining about it. Idk, I'd rather have overpowered Gekkouga mind fusion than nothin'. However crazy it might be. I'm just kinda hoping that it doesn't only happen to Satoshi and Gekkouga - that might make it more believable.

I dunno, maybe Alan having a similar link to Charizard??

I guess we won't know why it's only happening to Satoshi, until we know what it is in the first place.

Writers totally screwed Ash's chance to megevolve Charizard and Sceptile for Ash-Greninja.
So , Ash better not lose to Alain or Shota.

Yeahhh, but it makes sense that they would have Ash mega evolve a Kalos Pokemon, rather than bringing back an old one, unfortunately. x_x

But I do think Mega Greninja is pretty cool. Not as good as Mega Charizard, but Alan already uses his, so Ash having the same Poke might be something they wouldn't go for.

I just hope he doesn't let the rest of his team collect dust just because he's trying to control / figure out the Greninja thing.

I like the concept. I really really do. However, it doesn't mean that they need to sideline his most important partnership for it, which is what is honestly bothering me the most about it. Since Ash-Greninja's Arc really started the amount of Ash and Pikachu moments have been minimal and while it's nice that Ash isn't depending on his electric pal it doesn't mean that they can still have those supportive moments that they had in the past whenever Ash had to make it through obstacles with other Pokemon.

I dunno. The writing for it is just not what it could be. That they've been focusing so much on one thing they're leaving out other things that are critical to Ash's development just as much as Ash-Greninja.

New ability ???

Greninja has become Ash's most powerful pokemon. And it keeps getting stronger.

The attack reminds me of the attack Greninja Break has in its art, so I am wondering if Ash-Greninja will eventually hit Break like Greninja Break and turn golden in the final battle. I don't even think that attack is in a battle with Sawyer or Alain. I can't tell who he is fighting in the scoreboard that in in the video. I can pause it, but it isn't clear and really hard to pause it in time.

Maybe they come across someone from Alola who can do that with a different Pokemon in the league, leading to Syncro in sun and moon and what causes Ash to go to Alola. Maybe to figure out what Ash-Greninja is all about.

Imma be honest, I loathe the concept of Ash-Greninja. He's been shoved down our throats for the past two months and the newest League preview hyped him up even more. For Christ's sake, even Infernape and his Blaze drama didn't seem this excessive in DP tbh. I get that Ash needed a powerhouse, but I would've preferred if Ash had a regular Greninja who was on par with Sceptile; as in a strong, dependable Pokemon, but not overexposed to Ash-Greninja's extent.