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Joining ISIS

191
Posts
8
Years
  • I don't know what this is like in other countries but in the UK there have been quite a few cases of youths (mostly 16-20 year olds) running away and joining ISIS. Some have been stopped at the border and had their passports confiscated by the authorities so they cannot leave the country. My question is, should we be stopping these people from leaving to join ISIS or are we making the situation worse by effectively imprisoning them in this country?
     
    10,769
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  • ISIS is a terrorist group that kills people. Stopping people from joining is probably going to outweigh any downsides because you're stopping them from directly or indirectly killing people.

    I mean, one would hope that you wouldn't just stop them and let them on their merry way, but depending on circumstances either imprison them, counsel them, monitor them, or something else to make sure that they aren't just going to try again with a fake passport or try something extreme at home.

    Seems like a pretty straightforward answer to me, but maybe I'm not looking at all the possibilities?
     
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  • I say stick them in prison or put them through some kind of mental rehabilitation. If these people are getting caught trying to leave to join a terrorist group they should be getting arrested. Taking away their passports is nothing, they can possibly get fake ones and try leaving again. They need to grab them all, then that will stop them permanently from joining the group.
     
    191
    Posts
    8
    Years
  • I say stick them in prison or put them through some kind of mental rehabilitation. If these people are getting caught trying to leave to join a terrorist group they should be getting arrested. Taking away their passports is nothing, they can possibly get fake ones and try leaving again. They need to grab them all, then that will stop them permanently from joining the group.

    Wouldn't it be better to instead find out why they want to join ISIS? It's possible that the reason why they want to leave is because of how badly Islamic people are treated over here, and they want to do something about it. If that's the case then locking them up is only going to make things worse and add more fuel to the fire.
     

    mew_nani

    Pokécommunity's Licensed Tree Exorcist
    1,839
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  • Trying to join ISIS is pretty much equivalent to joining the Nazis in World War II. These people rape women and girls, murder people who oppose them or aren't of their own faith in brutal and sadistic ways, post propaganda videos threatening countries around the world, and destroy priceless monuments and cities because they're not Islamic. These people are evil, and any and all claims they have that they are righteous and just are voided by their own actions and creed. If you're joining them, you're not a good person because it's impossible to not know who they are at this point.

    If they try to join them, they should be stopped. Once they join they become trained and further indoctrinated and become a danger to themselves and everyone nearby. The last thing we need is for more crazed lunatics to join ISIS and get more people killed and/or raped.
     
    580
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  • Wouldn't it be better to instead find out why they want to join ISIS? It's possible that the reason why they want to leave is because of how badly Islamic people are treated over here, and they want to do something about it. If that's the case then locking them up is only going to make things worse and add more fuel to the fire.
    If they are in prison or rehab then those questions will be asked regardless so there would automatically be an investigation as to why they want to join, so that part of what you said wouldn't matter much.

    You make it sound like it's okay for them to join a group of terrorists that kill innocent people because they are sad about how their people are treated. There is no excuse for it. There are certainly other ways to bring change to a situation like that and joining a group like ISIS is not the way to go. And if they don't think change will happen then oh well they can all move somewhere else where people like them.

    I don't see how locking them up makes things worse. If you lock those who are trying to join then you put a stop to them ever joining and possibly killing more people. If you just let them go then they still have a chance of getting in and killing people. Pretty obvious which is better and which is worse.
     

    Somewhere_

    i don't know where
    4,494
    Posts
    8
    Years
  • I don't know what this is like in other countries but in the UK there have been quite a few cases of youths (mostly 16-20 year olds) running away and joining ISIS. Some have been stopped at the border and had their passports confiscated by the authorities so they cannot leave the country. My question is, should we be stopping these people from leaving to join ISIS or are we making the situation worse by effectively imprisoning them in this country?

    How large of an issue is this? How many Jihadists return?
     
    191
    Posts
    8
    Years
  • If they are in prison or rehab then those questions will be asked regardless so there would automatically be an investigation as to why they want to join, so that part of what you said wouldn't matter much.

    You make it sound like it's okay for them to join a group of terrorists that kill innocent people because they are sad about how their people are treated. There is no excuse for it. There are certainly other ways to bring change to a situation like that and joining a group like ISIS is not the way to go. And if they don't think change will happen then oh well they can all move somewhere else where people like them.

    I don't see how locking them up makes things worse. If you lock those who are trying to join then you put a stop to them ever joining and possibly killing more people. If you just let them go then they still have a chance of getting in and killing people. Pretty obvious which is better and which is worse.

    Even though locking them up is for the benefit of both themselves and the country, there is always the chance of IS turning them into martyrs for their recruiting campaigns, painting us as the bad guys. This is especially important when you consider that most foreign IS fighters are recruited from close friends and family. If you lock up someone's close friend for trying to leave the country they are going to try harder to join IS.
     
    36
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  • Wouldn't it be better to instead find out why they want to join ISIS? It's possible that the reason why they want to leave is because of how badly Islamic people are treated over here, and they want to do something about it. If that's the case then locking them up is only going to make things worse and add more fuel to the fire.

    The reason they want to join ISIS is to be part of an ideology that guarantees paradise in the afterlife, they are manipulated into thinking this is the case. Yes there are hate crimes against Islamic people, but it's a hyperbole to say 'how badly Islamic people are treated' when the vast majority of them are living happy and peaceful lives integrated into the West.

    The majority of Islamic people also condemn ISIS, so how is it due to their ill treatment that spurs them to join ISIS when it's the extremely small minority that actually go to Syria for the sake of jihad.
     

    zakisrage

    In the trunk on Highway 10
    500
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    10
    Years
  • As a Muslim, I can definitely say that this is a problem that affects young Muslim men - they are the ones being targeted for recruitment. They're basically led to believe that joining a terrorist group and blowing themselves up will help them go to heaven. Anti-Muslim sentiment is often a factor for them joining, since some of the young men recruited want revenge on the non-Muslims who harbor hatred towards Muslims, and the terrorists play on any resentment towards non-Muslims the recruits might have. My relatives claim to have known people who moved to Lebanon to join Hezbollah. It's basically brainwashing. Regardless, there is no excuse for joining any terrorist group. The worst part of it is that a lot of these young men end up losing their lives. Surprisingly, a good number of the recruits come from Westernised families who don't hate non-Muslims. Some of them aren't even Muslims by birth, but converts. It's because the Islamist elite is too cowardly to do the work themselves.

    I haven't heard of any Australians joining ISIL - at least not yet. I'm sure it's happened, though - there were Australians who joined al-Qaeda or had ties to it. I remember the case of "Jihad Jack" (aka Joseph T. Thomas), who was receiving funds from al-Qaeda.
     

    Argenta

    Soul
    63
    Posts
    12
    Years
  • As a Muslim too, If you don't know your faith well, you will fall for traps of people like ISIS of course, they know how to find ways to weak people's brains.

    The thought of ISIS killing anyone doesn't follow their faith is wrong as they already kill Muslims too. A bunch of people who have a political agenda hidden in religion clothing, convincing -the said brainless people- that they are heroes and they are doing the right things.

    I say, those arrested people need to be re-educated properly about what their faith says, they need someone erudite gives them the right answers to their questions.
     
    580
    Posts
    8
    Years
  • Even though locking them up is for the benefit of both themselves and the country, there is always the chance of IS turning them into martyrs for their recruiting campaigns, painting us as the bad guys. This is especially important when you consider that most foreign IS fighters are recruited from close friends and family. If you lock up someone's close friend for trying to leave the country they are going to try harder to join IS.
    Good point about them recruiting close friends and family. In this case maybe the best idea is what Riko said, have them be educated correctly and thoroughly on what their religion teaches. That would sort of fall into the rehab option I said before.
    As a Muslim, I can definitely say that this is a problem that affects young Muslim men - they are the ones being targeted for recruitment. They're basically led to believe that joining a terrorist group and blowing themselves up will help them go to heaven. Anti-Muslim sentiment is often a factor for them joining, since some of the young men recruited want revenge on the non-Muslims who harbor hatred towards Muslims, and the terrorists play on any resentment towards non-Muslims the recruits might have. My relatives claim to have known people who moved to Lebanon to join Hezbollah. It's basically brainwashing. Regardless, there is no excuse for joining any terrorist group. The worst part of it is that a lot of these young men end up losing their lives. Surprisingly, a good number of the recruits come from Westernised families who don't hate non-Muslims. Some of them aren't even Muslims by birth, but converts. It's because the Islamist elite is too cowardly to do the work themselves.

    I haven't heard of any Australians joining ISIL - at least not yet. I'm sure it's happened, though - there were Australians who joined al-Qaeda or had ties to it. I remember the case of "Jihad Jack" (aka Joseph T. Thomas), who was receiving funds from al-Qaeda.

    As a Muslim too, If you don't know your faith well, you will fall for traps of people like ISIS of course, they know how to find ways to weak people's brains.

    The thought of ISIS killing anyone doesn't follow their faith is wrong as they already kill Muslims too. A bunch of people who have a political agenda hidden in religion clothing, convincing -the said brainless people- that they are heroes and they are doing the right things.

    I say, those arrested people need to be re-educated properly about what their faith says, they need someone erudite gives them the right answers to their questions.
    You two bring up some very good information on this. Thanks for taking the time to offer your opinion.
     
    611
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    9
    Years
  • These people are evil, and any and all claims they have that they are righteous and just are voided by their own actions and creed.
    ISIS are generally quite self-affirming, so not by their creed in the sense of them having problems with their own actions, which they generally do not. In the sense that they are inherently 'evil' according to the popular morality of nations which were opposed to them, then yes, but that was to be expected during a war.

    I say stick them in prison or put them through some kind of mental rehabilitation.
    As most countries who might have tried such were also at war with ISIS, somehow or other, 'mental rehabilitation' would merely be propagandising on their own part, and probably not something they would wish to be too closely associated with. It was perhaps more suited to domestic issues which were not (yet) organised into an opposed force.

    It might also cheapen attempts to portray them as exclusive users of 'brainwashing.'

    And if they don't think change will happen then oh well they can all move somewhere else where people like them.
    Presumably their problem is with the resentment against their religion in principle, not just the personal inconvenience that it might cause them. They aren't just going to leave it unopposed, as if they didn't actually believe in their own religion.

    If a given nation was systematically opposed to central principles of their religion, they would ultimately find themselves in opposition to it, and the general system which it represented. Unlike much of Christianity, it was not of course a politically neutral or passive religion, which would even if they wished for a system to be overthrown ignore them or seek to compromise with them and then alter their religion in accordance. It would hence be either ostracised anyway, or organise against this in whatever form, either one attempting to compromise and please the West in some way, or one which subverted its popular values. In any case it would not be appealing to them.

    The majority of Islamic people also condemn ISIS, so how is it due to their ill treatment that spurs them to join ISIS when it's the extremely small minority that actually go to Syria for the sake of jihad.
    Muslims come in many forms. Catholicism, of course, emulated the behaviour of multinationals far before their time by killing the Cathars for really very little reason, but nonetheless is still proclaimed the true church as opposed to such religious outgrowths, in part because it is 'established' or in brief because of such actions. Christians stand firmly opposed to such things elsewhere, as in Protestantism, and people like Kierkegaard took issue with Protestantism while still standing apart from Catholicism, while there were also some other earlier sects that died out when catholicism was integrated into the Roman Empire. With Muslims, such differentiation is only hidden in part because it is a religion active on a political level - politicians often only give lip service to Christianity anyway, another sense in which mandating that people follow Islam in a way that they consider 'correct' was only likely to be alienating and engender antagonism - and hence tended to collapse into on the one hand 'integrated' Muslims, who were generally in harmony with Western values and did not proclaim their overthrow, etc., and were generally speaking characterised as an undifferentiated mass of 'supporters' by the non-Muslim West and were frequently quite happy to go along with this characterisation, and on the other hand tendencies like ISIS who opposed the West and hence had its citizens urged against this by their government, through several media. The more the former hustled together and became similar, as a form of resistance of some sort, the more people who were not incorporated into such, such as radical preachers, were increasingly moved into the side represented by ISIS, etc., and probably suspicious of those who would support the US and its values over ISIS in a war situation. Because of Israel, they also had a reason to be suspicious of those who had Western support or supported the West generally, which could easily be associated with their other opposition who bore the stamp of the Western nations. Certainly, being reconciled with such powers as had and continued to have a significant level of indifference or despite for Muslims, or presumed to dictate their own religion from a secular, pseudo-Christian viewpoint, would generally be uneasy, and in that sense the Western governments had little persuasive power in such regions short of submission.

    Of course, Western governments were democratic, and hence politicians were such as were deeply concerned about, validated and valued what anyone had to say, of any sort, while the Muslims were more focussed. As such, the West's being unable to persuade opposition, despite their position in the world system, must have rankled.

    In this case maybe the best idea is what Riko said, have them be educated correctly and thoroughly on what their religion teaches.
    If you tried a similar thing with Christianity, this would generally come across as quite farcical - as if most Christians are without controversy orthodox on all matters - and if it comes across elsewise, it is only because Islam was treated less as a religion than a problem and opposition to be solved. This kind of approach was also manifested in the Middle East in part, where the displacement of Islamic nations by a pseudo-racial 'Jewish' state was treated as a matter of course.

    Is a Christian or secular - that is, distanced from religion in some way - state going to monitor every religion, including Judaism, for whether or not it is 'correct'? Especially given, of course, that most religions don't even attempt to abide strictly by their earlier texts, and often feel the need to go further than them, or tone them down to fit into modernity and be less inimical to other religions.

    Regardless, there is no excuse for joining any terrorist group. The worst part of it is that a lot of these young men end up losing their lives.
    Propagating the not-quite-official war on Iraq was something that the state of the US sponsored with not little enthusiasm recently, often despite dubious causes. They hardly had that much room for shock about this kind of thing in citizens.

    Even though locking them up is for the benefit of both themselves and the country, there is always the chance of IS turning them into martyrs for their recruiting campaigns, painting us as the bad guys.
    It's unlikely to benefit their purpose, or them in terms of why they act generally, so perhaps as some abstract, inert being who is merely a hypothesis, and was open to such 'help' in integration. That said, if ISIS can portray people as martyrs for being imprisoned, for instance, that bespeaks a high degree of solidarity with their global supporters.
     
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    Caaethil

    #1 Greninja Fan
    501
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  • No, that should never be allowed to happen. We can't let them go to join a terrorist group.

    I can imagine it now, the TV ads for flights to join ISIS. Seriously. Because somebody'd pull a stunt like that if it was allowed.

    That's a disaster waiting to happen.
     
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