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Suggestion: UG needs a new moderator.

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  • The thing to know about mods here is that they are real people on the inside and have a life, and sadly I think those two at the helm of Underground must be busy at the moment. Given the activity rate of the section I definitely agree that a third mod may have to be brought in to help cover for them, plus expect very active sections to have around 3 (or even 4 in some situations) mods so don't be surprised if there's a new promotion over there in the near future.

    But of course, as we know with promotions it takes time because it involves secret (as in higher-ups' secret forums) reviewing and watching of a member's activity in a section.
     

    Sun

    When the sun goes down...
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    Eh? I thought higher ranking staff are suppose to 'substitute' in their places, in case the mods are busy?

    I could be understanding your words wrongly, but the meaning that I'm getting from your words is like they are no longer that active on PC for no official given reasons, which can also happen as life tends to get into our way.

    Hopefully all's well and things can be solved. :)
     
    50,218
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  • Eh? I thought higher ranking staff are suppose to 'substitute' in their places, in case the mods are busy?

    Sometimes a higher-up may cover, but they can get just as busy as regular mods so it may not always be the best way out. If Underground can get a third mod (maybe even a fourth if desperate) that should at least get the activity under control.
     
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    Sydian

    fake your death.
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  • This comes off incredibly rude to the UG mods, honestly. I'm sure you mean well and didn't want to come off that way, but I think it's disrespectful to come out and say "this area needs a new mod." Have you ever tried talking to them and offering them some help or advice sometime? Or even coming to higher staff with your concerns? I think they would appreciate that more than something like this.

    Edit: Not going to post again, but I don't meant to say they can't handle it. But I think it's unfair to call them out about it publicly without first offering them that advice to their faces in a PM or over Skype or something. Not saying they're "thin-skinned" or that we should "sugar coat." I think going to them first is a matter of courtesy.
     
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    Sydian

    fake your death.
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  • They are busy. Asking them to drop their lives and commit to the UG is incredibly rude. Requesting another mod to help out isn't rude at all.

    I didn't say that anywhere in my post, sorry if I made it unclear. I'm saying that it would be more courteous to come to them personally with suggestions rather than posting a thread with it for everyone to see.
     

    maccrash

    foggy notion
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  • just as far as the Implications making a thread like this has I see no problem with it, really -- he didn't seem to word it rudely, or at least that's not how I read it. it's a valid concern, although it is slightly weird to post something like this publicly. regardless, I have no idea how things are going in UG so I can't offer anything specifically related to this situation, but if what you're saying is all true, Johnny, I do see why you'd want to spice things up a bit: maybe not necessarily adding a new mod, but doing something to change things up a little.
     

    Zehn

    [color=red][font=Foto Serif]Sacred[/font][/color][
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  • I definitely wouldn't say no to another official moderator, but Klippy spends a lot of time the UG and moderates it quite a bit and I like to think of him a a UG moderator in his own way. The mods may be a little inactive, but don't forget that as a Mafia section, you probably won't see anything more than Mafia but I would to see some. That being said when was the last time you have seen a rule breaking post? And I don't mean like a double post or something annoying like it, so the moderators aren't needed to much, but they definitely are not slacking in their jobs
     
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  • I'd also like to see a new UG mod. When Celebrations! became its own forum, it got its own mod, and it didn't just get the mods from the section it was a subforum of. There are many Underground nerds regulars that contribute a lot, and are well deserving of a mod position, anyways. Not saying Netto Azure and Ash aren't deserving, its just that they both moderate other sections, so they can't always dedicate all of their time to The Underground.
     

    Sydian

    fake your death.
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  • There are absolutely no suggestions i can give them about being busy, real life comes first. I respect both of the actual moderators, and i have not wasted my time on talking to them personally because i think that if they could, they would be active. I think the opposite as you do, i think that talking to them personally would be more rude, i know that if they could, they would be active as hell, because they are awesome moderators.

    I see where you're coming from. My thought process is that, in the case you had a suggestion for the UG for example, that you would PM it to them to discuss it with them and go over it together. I just don't think people like to be called out in public like, "hey this needs to happen" without telling them or suggesting it in private first, if that makes sense. And of course, since you say you don't have any suggestions, you could have gone to Klippy, who is higher staff and active there, with your issue as well, or any other higher staff for that matter and we could look into that situation. Like I said, I knew you meant well and weren't trying to come off rude or anything. I just know that if I were still a mod and someone posted "we need a new challenge moderator" I would have gotten angry and embarrassed. I'd rather someone come to me with their concerns or ideas first rather than the whole forum.

    But we can agree they're awesome moderators at least. :)
     

    Candy

    [img]http://i.imgur.com/snz4bEm.png[/img]
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  • Honestly I'd prefer that if we have another moderator, it should be someone that lives on the other side of the world. I mean, both mods are from the US, while mafia games can have discussions 'til the after-midnight hours over there thanks to timezones. And you know with the nature of mafia games (especially wih all the salt being tossed around in here), someone needs to keep watch to ensure that it doesn't fall into the flame wars category.

    Plus even if there are a lot of mods over at the place (I admit the amount of blue is staggering), they still don't get the final say and everything depends on Ash, Netto and Klippy being online at the moment in order to straighten things out in the forums.

    I mean yeah, Ash and Netto are doing good jobs but their life is top priority, and Klippy could only do so much for the UG himself.
     

    Salzorrah

    [font=Montserrat][b][color=#66CC66]g[/color][color
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  • As much as I love all three of them, I feel we do need one more mod just to even it out and have our suggestions put through... Klippy is very active in keeping UG running, but as he said, for final decisions, we had to consult for Ash and Netto, and tbh it's either we miss them coz of timezones, or they are busy with life...
     
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  • Personally, I don't think the UG is in desperate need of a new mod. If someone does end up being promoted, then that's also fine because it certainly wouldn't be a hinderance to the section or anything either, but we don't need to start a desperate hunt for a third mod.

    Yes, Netto and Ash seem to be a tad busy at the moment. However, all of us mods get busy from time to time and in those cases we don't suddenly start hunting for an extra mod in those sections, so why should the UG be any different? It's not like it's a high-maintenance section. It's active yes, but the mod duties there are essentially

    1. Approve/Deny new games
    2. Update the Index
    3. Conflict resolution.

    Approving and denying games doesn't take very long, and Netto and Ash have been on the ball with that. There's not been any lack of new games starting because of them. The only thing that has kept new games from starting at any point is snailing GMs.

    They sometimes fall slightly behind on the Index, but that's not really a huge priority. It's generally kept relatively up-to-date and its plenty easy to discover which games are active and what order the next ones are coming in. If a serious backlog was to occur I would understand more, but being one game behind on the index for a week or so when games tend to last for a month or more isn't that concerning.

    Conflict resolution (and if need be warnings/infractions) is not as big a problem as you might think. Firstly, in the rare instances that any issues actually happen on the forum, Klippy is in basically every game anyway and can deal with those things just as well as the mods. Secondly, when arguments and things do occur, they tend to happen in the Skype chat where staff only have so much authority anyway.


    I guess what I'm saying is that whilst I'd be absolutely fine with UG getting a third moderator, it's a bit much to say it needs one. Would a third mod be a benefit, sure I guess, but Netto and Ash are doing a fine job considering how busy they seem to be and with Klippy always around I don't think we need to rush a promotion. Just let the h-staff do their thing and if/when they deem someone a good fit, a promotion will probably happen (I guess, I'm not h-staff). If you think Klippy having no direct say in the forum's development is really an issue, then it'd make more sense to temporarily instate him as an official mod (like Live was for RT before Nah and I took over) until it is either apparent that Netto and Ash are just too busy and more help is needed, or until the two of them are able to return to their maximum activity.

    Edit: Overly long post is overly long.
     

    Melody

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  • I share the same sentiments as both Johnny and Gunner. l do feel like they could use help. It is a question of if they want it; or if they think they can manage things as they are; the way they do now. There's not any real rush through; the Underground isn't in any peril and I think many people don't particularly mind if they're busy. I certainly don't mind it much.

    I don't expect Klippy, Ash and Netto to just jump up and nominate for mod, some random snail. That'd be super rash and bad for the section; it has plenty of moderator guidance which can act in their stead when they make their minds and wishes known. The PC staff is far from understocked on human resources in most cases; and any SMod is good for doing actual things that require moderation permissions if Ash & Netto actually do have a busy spot. They're far from distant moderators, they do their jobs well; even if the UG isn't their primary focus.

    As far as the timing of the selection goes; I'm totally OK if the Higher Staff want to be snails about promoting anybody. It's a big decision, so it's a delicate operation that requires lots of thought. The Underground as a whole has been a surprisingly wonderful and amazing concerted effort by not only the staff; but the members involved as well! There are plenty of members who have a lot of good history there who deserve a mod badge, and little room for all of them who do deserve it! We can't mod 'em all sadly, there's not enough need for that. I think it's likely that the higher staff won't push another mod into that section until Ash and Netto are willing to pick a new one. So let's not rush them into that! It takes many mods to raise up a new mod!
     

    Zehn

    [color=red][font=Foto Serif]Sacred[/font][/color][
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  • Reading over this thread agaain, I must admit my mind has changed a bit. While I still don't think we need a new mod, a specific mod is needed. Time zones have been mentioned a few times already in this thread and I have to admit, it is one of the hardest problems to solve. I am from the UK, and so are many others, yet currently the 2 mods are both from the US. While is isn't too much of a problem, the next mod should be a European to balance out the scales. While inter-mod communication is import, overall times that can be modded should be factored higher in my opinion
     

    Klippy

    L E G E N D of
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  • I'll post my thoughts tomorrow when I have some time to type them out. My name has been thrown around a bit (not in a bad way), so I should probably be involved in a discussion.

    Appreciate you guys being interested and passionate though. Glad we have dedicated members who care about my favorite area. :)
     

    Foxrally

    [img]http://i.imgur.com/omi0jS3.gif[/img]
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  • Underground nerds regulars

    ready-to-fight-bruce-lee.gif


    If we want events, we can just make and plan them ourselves and when we're done we can just let the mods/Klippy accept and implement them. Easy solution :D
     
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    I already did that, believe me, otherwise this thread would not exist.

    I think you may be taking this the wrong way. Have you considered that the reason your idea hasn't happened is because it's not suitable (at the moment or for now) and so hasn't been implemented?

    :) considering Ash and Klippy were present for your Skype talk suggestion it's not like it's been ignored or anything, it might just not be feasible and requires more than a couple of days to discuss and sort out.
     

    Nihilego

    [color=#95b4d4]ユービーゼロイチ パラサイト[/color]
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  • So first off, while I won't do anything about it given how far it's come, this thread shouldn't exist. Firstly, the Staff Feedback Thread is for staff feedback and moreover if you think that mods aren't doing what a section needs then you can discuss that directly with them, or ask hstaff to. You definitely don't make a public thread calling for another mod without so much as passing the idea by them first. You're basically saying "we don't think you're good enough at your job, and we're going to publicly pressure the idea of forcing you to work with someone else". This is a very brash, reckless way of going about things that immediately casts doubt over your proposal.

    That aside, though, I'll try to address the issue at hand since I don't think you really meant for it to be received that way: I think you're underestimating what you can do as members. It is not the job of only the moderators to generate activity in the section. There is no reason why a member cannot make an event and just ask a mod to facilitate that. As a number of people have pointed out here, UG is a very busy section with many capable, contributive people. A bold blue name does not automatically designate an individual as the person who manages events and whatnot in a section, nor should you expect a blue name for doing these things. Indeed, a number of higher staff (including myself) actively look for members who've shown such initiative and hold them in higher regard than other candidates - we aren't looking for people who wait until they're mods to do things. We want people who are doing things now - who are contributing to their section without the requirement to do so.

    As for existing mods, I can tell you that hstaff are comfortable with both Netto and Ash's activity levels, and that they both seem to us to be very capable of doing their jobs. If you guys think they're too busy then you can help them out by... doing almost everything that you claim needs addressing in this thread. You can make events, you can contribute ideas, hell - you can even resolve conflicts on your own. You're a mature, well-developed and highly capable community that is more than capable of sustaining itself and solving its own problems without needing moderators to spoonfeed you every step of the way. Throwing additional mods into it is a possible solution but it's not nearly as good as you lot working together to solve these problems yourselves without pinning the entire responsibility on two (or, as the suggestion may be, three) people. The moderators of sections should always facilitate the growth of their section, yes, but that doesn't mean that the responsibility falls solely upon them. UG is one of the most bustling sections on PC and has so much capability as a community to make itself great.

    We probably will consider this, but there are a lot of problems with just saying "we don't think much is happening, give us more mods". Right now I personally am not inclined to consider another moderator (and especially not one outside of the existing team) but some of the others might think differently.


    Anyway, as a couple of footnotes since there are some misconceptions in this thread:

    • we don't consider a candidate's timezone as part of a mod candidacy. We will pick the best candidate, not the one most conveniently located. If something is so imperative that it absolutely 100% needs doing right that second then every member of higher staff can moderate the entire forum, and you can come directly to them.

    • just because some ideas were rejected doesn't mean that we need a new mod. If your suggestion wasn't implemented then try to understand why instead of forcing it through somebody else and reach a compromise for what can work.

    • there are no instances under which we "will" or "will not" mod someone or when we source within our own team. Everything is case-by-case and it's unusual for two moddings to go exactly the same way. However, know that we will definitely not mod someone solely because there's pressure on us to do so.

    • tl;dr, ;]


    • peace and love. xo
     
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  • First things first, i read that thread and it's not suited for this suggestion. This isn't a complain, this isn't a suggestion for the moderators of that section. As the title says, i think a new moderator is needed, not because they aren't good enough or i don't like, just because they are busy with their lives.

    Staff suggestions are considered a part of staff feedback, though. Hence why this section we're posting in is called "Community Feedback & Support" rather than "Community Suggestions, Feedback, and Support".

    You are wrong, i have never said this neither insinuated it, they are good enough.

    You may have never said it outright, but that's how it comes across, whether you intended it that way or not.

    I have done this, but one mod doesn't make a decision without consulting the other, i don't wanna go into details, all you have to know is that, the 2 of them are never around at the same time for us to talk to them.

    Really, in this case, just give them a few days or a week. They may already be hashing it out via PMs for all we know. In the business world, a seemingly minor decision can take weeks or even months to come to a decision on it for any number of reasons. It sounds like you approached them recently. Just give them time to talk it over. If you haven't heard anything for something like two weeks, message one of them and ask for an update on the status of your suggestion.
     

    Nah

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    I just wanna stress this point a bit, more as a general thing than about the topic at hand:
    shenanigans said:
    That aside, though, I'll try to address the issue at hand since I don't think you really meant for it to be received that way: I think you're underestimating what you can do as members. It is not the job of only the moderators to generate activity in the section. There is no reason why a member cannot make an event and just ask a mod to facilitate that. As a number of people have pointed out here, UG is a very busy section with many capable, contributive people. A bold blue name does not automatically designate an individual as the person who manages events and whatnot in a section, nor should you expect a blue name for doing these things.
    This bit is mainly why I liked his post. I suppose it's not terribly well know or encouraged, but yes, please do pitch ideas/suggestions for the forum in general and individual sections in particular. This website would probably be only half of what it is right now if it wasn't for members doing stuff. Y'all should keep in mind that there's only 40 or 50 staff members (across all ranks), but PC has thousands of members. You guys really can get stuff done and make changes if you really want to except for supporter perks that was kinda bad. The best example of this is, well.....The Underground. That place basically started off as someone just throwing out the suggestion of having mafia games on PC. And then through major community member support, we made the Underground a subforum of the Playground. And then through serious member activity in there, one of you suggested on making it it's own section, which had considerable member backing, and so now The Underground is it's own full-fledged section. And it continues to thrive mainly because of member contribution. Yeah, at the end of the day staff has to approve and implement whatever it is you come up with, but nothing would've happened in the first place if y'all didn't think of it and pitch it to us.

    ....so yeah

    You are wrong, i have never said this neither insinuated it, they are good enough.
    It's just that the way your first post is worded it sounds much more like "I don't think that Tara and Netto are doing a terribly good job and are slacking" than "I feel that Tara and Netto could use a new mod partner to help take the load off of them somewhat, which will be good for both them and the Underground."

    But I'd like to think that we can all see that you mean the latter and not the former now.
     
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