Ageism

I posted this on another forum but was curious about the response I would get from this community...

Preamble:
We have all heard of racism and sexism (I believe!) but do we discuss ageism often enough? Do we think it's a concern?

Ageism (also spelled "agism") is stereotyping and discriminating against individuals or groups on the basis of their age. This may be casual or systematic. The term was coined in 1971 by Robert Neil Butler to describe discrimination against seniors, and patterned on sexism and racism. Butler defined "ageism" as a combination of three connected elements. Among them were prejudicial attitudes towards older people, old age, and the aging process; discriminatory practices against older people; and institutional practices and policies that perpetuate stereotypes about older people.

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source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ageism

For some of us we experience ageism at a young age! Although we may not know it a lot of us had the odds/society stacked against us when we were teenagers/while we are teenagers. Society looks/looked at us as hormonal beings with a nasty side! And as such they may have treated us although we were overly emotional etc. Some of this may be warranted under some circumstances, but I am sure a lot of it was just stereotyping. In fact you may find yourself looking at teenagers in a similar way, or possibly even loud kids? Can you relate?

So....

Questions/Comments/Opinions

Have any of you experienced ageism?

Do any of you commit ageism? If you want to admit to it then go ahead, if you've changed and want to tell us how then that is great to hear as well ^_^

What can be done to reduce stigma with age and specific ages?

Do you think most ageism is justified? For example do you think it's almost certain that people's driving skills go down hill with age and we should be weary of all elderly drivers?

Do you have respect for specific people who are younger than you, or older than you?

Do any of you commit ageism? If you want to admit to it then go ahead, if you've changed and want to tell us how then that is great to hear as well
Yes. If we define it as treating others differently based on age and maturity.

What can be done to reduce stigma with age and specific ages?
Change the actual behavior rather than the stigma in the case of young people and dependability.

Do you think most ageism is justified? For example do you think it's almost certain that people's driving skills go down hill with age and we should be weary of all elderly drivers?

I am weary of younger drivers more than I am older drivers. In addition, males over 65 group don't have that high of an accident record, same as the 26-30 age group. The younger groups (16-20) (21-25) are about 3 and 2 times more dangerous respectively.

For females it's different. The (16-20) group is about the same as the (65 +) group. Though, that can be explained by the fact that these women are less experienced drivers than their male counterpart in the 65+ group. If we look back into American history, female employment doubled from the 1940's to the 1960's, but bus commuting to work was still more popular than driving for these female workers. Only about 15% of two-parent families had two or more vehicles. The immersion of automobility comes into a full-effect in the 80's. Still, many women were not accustomed to driving, just didn't drive, or did so on occasion. Women tend to outlive men, and this forced women who were dependent upon spouses to drive more frequently. So, this is definitely more social stigma than "old people problems". Though, a slight impact on statistics is from that rare out-of-nowhere heart attack or non-diagnosed case of dementia.

Young people however will always be new to driving and more prone to immature/reckless/aggressive behavior, though this is exhibited by men more than women. The reckless/aggressive behavior persists in older age groups, but to a lesser extent.

I am weary of young male drivers, especially high school/college age, and it's totally justifiable given the statistics and the risks incurred on my life.

Stigmas (if backed by statistics and theory to explain the statistics) are justifiable in risk assessment, but there are always exceptions to the rule or possible hidden underlying causes.

Do you have respect for specific people who are younger than you, or older than you?
I have more respect for those who are older than me. I lack respect for some of the younger groups, even many people my own age. It really does depend on other things than age, but do relate to maturity, trust, dependability, and attitude. Also, I mostly only consider dating older than me or around my age (23-34).

The Dark Avenger said:

Do you have respect for specific people who are younger than you, or older than you?
I have more respect for those who are older than me. I lack respect for some of the younger groups, even many people my own age. It really does depend on other things than age, but do relate to maturity, trust, dependability, and attitude. Also, I mostly only consider dating older than me or around my age (23-34).

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What's the reasoning behind this? Is it a combination of past experiences and/or ideas of people at certain ages? Have you always thought this way when deciding to date someone or not? Just curious!

The risk of anyone in any situation being undependable (or screwing one over) has often increased when the other person is immature and less established. Older people tend to be better established, experienced, and dependable in all respects than younger people, though it's just a tendency. There are numerous of non-reliable people older than myself.

Reasons why people are dependable relate to who much responsibility they have effectively handled. Most young people have not handled effectively a great deal of responsibility. With that said some people never assume responsibility or have unforeseen responsibilities thrown their way. It's easier to get a read on someone if they have experiences to share and from their it's easier to make a judgment.

I don't have time to babysit drunk club kids that end up in jail for instance, or people that create drama since they have no real work or responsibility in their lives. I have dealt with these types in the past. Just because a person never gets arrested, it doesn't mean they were not prone to either. I would rather not risk being with friends that will drag me down in anyway from achieving what I want to achieve. Even in college, some kids will make do and get through college while partying every other night; it's not always, or even usual, for a Bachelor's to be a difficult task, unless the individuals challenge themselves or have other responsibilities/interests that keep them engaged and busy. So, simply being a college student doesn't really mean much to me in and of itself; actually there are plenty of non-college people who I admire.

I have always put pressure on myself and assume many responsibilities in my career. I seek others who have a similar mindset, and those tend to be older than myself, though I have friends and co-workers that are a bit younger or my age, just in lesser frequency. We do go out, but it's not several times a week, getting sloppy, or in any way affecting work. With maturity comes a better gauge on balance, and if a person doesn't even have responsibilities or self-worth they tend to be more reckless. And since with age there is greater personal investment, there is a tendency for reckless behavior to go down. Essentially, I want to have a good time when I don't work, it's important to have fun in life! Associating with immature and reckless people only ruins that time off for me.

So, basically maturity has a lot to do with risk assessment. And age tends to equal more experience and time to develop maturity. There is a tendency for mature people to be more grounded and make my life even better by associating with them, whereas immature people have always in some way eventually screwed up something for me and others and I just don't have time for that throw of the dice, unless of course, we are talking about young people who have had some tests of handling themselves well with life responsibilities. That accounts for the slight bias towards associating with those my age and older, rather than younger.

I am guilty of being ageist but only to younger groups (generally teenagers of high school age). I tend not to take opinions as seriously from younger people than from older people simply owing to lack of life experience of the former.

I will also admit I passively judge age on this forum too. When I see posts that are well put together or completely nonsensical I make an assessment on their age and will look up that persons profile to see how old they are.

I remember being a teenager in high school and it's not the same as being in the real world. In high school you're spoon fed everything and have no responsibility. Therefore it's hard to take, say a 16 year old, seriously on serious topics when they have very little life experience.

I have no problem with younger people I work with but at a minimum they're usually 22 or 23 years old.

I like older people. They know a lot and are great to learn from. It can be very hard to relate to different generations though.

Have any of you experienced ageism?
Sure. Plenty of it abounds right here on PC. Because I'm 16 with an ego I'm somehow looked down upon. There's nothing inherently wrong with an ego provided it's positively-oriented and because I'm 16 doesn't mean I'm going to "grow out of whatever negative aspect of me you have a personal problem with." I think at that point it's you who ought to grow up.

Do any of you commit ageism? If you want to admit to it then go ahead, if you've changed and want to tell us how then that is great to hear as well.
I don't think I do. I may make a comment like "these 14-year-old stinky ODD mofos are getting on my nerves," but that's not going out and saying it's because of their age that they're implicitly apt to have those other qualities.

What can be done to reduce stigma with age and specific ages?
Cut out bigotry. I'm sorry, but arbitrary statistics and factoids will never give you an accurate gander of a person. Try getting to know them before you judge, and with negative qualities work with the stem, not the leaves.

Do you think most ageism is justified? For example do you think it's almost certain that people's driving skills go down hill with age and we should be weary of all elderly drivers?
No. You need to be weary of dangerous drivers, and those happen to include a lot of old people who go far under the speed limit. Saying it's because they're old is fallacious so making the statement "watch out for old ladies driving" or whatever is preposterous.

Do you have respect for specific people who are younger than you, or older than you?
There's someone on PC who I am astonished by their achievements and intellect in spite of their age. I don't consider people's age to be hardly of a reflection on their maturity. Sure, it's a good thing to vaguely gauge, but it's far from definite.

Senusret said:

Cut out bigotry. I'm sorry, but arbitrary statistics and factoids will never give you an accurate gander of a person. Try getting to know them before you judge, and with negative qualities work with the stem, not the leaves.

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We can hardly get to know anyone before we interact with them, like driving let's say, I will tend to adjust my behavior, and proceed more cautiously if I see a 16/17 year old male. I can't roll the window down and have a conversation. Likewise, when I walk to work I am weary when I am walking around campus. The statistics are not really arbitrary when considering the teen driving death rate, for their sake and the sake of others around them. That is why car insurance companies do and should increase coverage for young people, it's a risk and the data clearly supports it.

Further, if I need to find another person to add to my lease, age will be a factor I use to discriminate among the pool of applicants. I would rather not have a roommate that is 60 or 18, and I don't have time to hangout with each applicant to go over our interests. What if I sought a baby-sitter/nanny, do I pick someone who is 12,18, or 28? Sometimes we as individuals, or groups with vested interests need to rely upon simple heuristics when making choices that don't allow for time and opportunity to fully get to know each person I interact with directly or indirectly. Age being one of them. Age alone doesn't tell us everything, but it is one many factors used to influence decision making and filtering. It's hardly a case of bigotry, which is an oversimplification.

Yes, age discrimination does occur, but it's a matter of context if bigotry is taking place. For instance refusing to accept students to undergraduate programs that are over 40, based solely on age. Though using age as a means of influencing decisions isn't in and of itself a form of bigotry when it protects the interests of all parties involved.

The Dark Avenger said:

We can hardly get to know anyone before we interact with them, like driving let's say, I will tend to adjust my behavior, and proceed more cautiously if I see a 16/17 year old male. I can't roll the window down and have a conversation. Likewise, when I walk to work I am weary when I am walking around campus. The statistics are not really arbitrary when considering the teen driving death rate, for their sake and the sake of others around them. That is why car insurance companies do and should increase coverage for young people, it's a risk and the data clearly supports it.

Further, if I need to find another person to add to my lease, age will be a factor I use to discriminate among the pool of applicants. I would rather not have a roommate that is 60 or 18, and I don't have time to hangout with each applicant to go over our interests. What if I sought a baby-sitter/nanny, do I pick someone who is 12,18, or 28? Sometimes we as individuals, or groups with vested interests need to rely upon simple heuristics when making choices that don't allow for time and opportunity to fully get to know each person I interact with directly or indirectly. Age being one of them. Age alone doesn't tell us everything, but it is one many factors used to influence decision making and filtering. It's hardly a case of bigotry, which is an oversimplification.

Yes, age discrimination does occur, but it's a matter of context if bigotry is taking place. For instance refusing to accept students to undergraduate programs that are over 40, based solely on age. Though using age as a means of influencing decisions isn't in and of itself a form of bigotry when it protects the interests of all parties involved.

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It's not really that it's in the interest of protection in particular but in the fact that it's not being used to discriminate with known persons. Some people you don't have the time to know, correct, and where I stand is that if you've talked to them before or seen them interact it's bigoted to base judgments on age. I guess then arbitrary statistics do have use with unknown persons, but that's really all. Exclaiming "he doesn't know what he's talking about! Ahh, he'll grow out of it, he's only 15 or 18 or w/e" isn't acceptable, while exclaiming "today's a senior holiday, better have my evading-slow-drivers hat on!" is really negligible. You make a good point. It's when you synonymize slow drivers with senior citizens and start thinking they're bad by their fact of age that you're in the territory of ageism.

I think I need to clarify that I don't discriminate against younger people, I just judge them based on their age, which while it sounds like the same thing, isn't. Human brains are extremely good at identifying patterns. It's why some people see the face of Jesus in a piece of toast and why people pass judgment on people they don't know. As Dark Avenger mentioned, without any other information, we are going to default to past experience to form judgments on people. The cues we take can be varied, from age, appearance, clothing, body language and style of speech.

However, I do agree with you Senusret that if you get to know someone and are still biased based on their age, then that's a problem. That being said, I may find a high schooler to be generally intelligent, but I'm probably not take them seriously if they complain about how hard or unfair life is.

Before I answer the questions, I just want to direct people's attention to this definition.

Ageism (also spelled "agism") is stereotyping and discriminating against individuals or groups on the basis of their age

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Note the bolded word is "and" not the word "or". To fulfil the requirements of that definition, a person has to not only stereotype specific age groups but also actively discriminate them. So whilst a person may assume a person is less intelligent or capable based on age, they aren't ageist unless they actively mistreat them because of it.

On to the questions

Have any of you experienced ageism?
I frequently do. I coach dance at my studio, and most of my work is in adult social classes. Many of the people who end up in my class are 5-15 years older than me and several more are even older. Amongst this group of people I have taught are a small number who have been extremely disrespectful to me or not taken me seriously based on me being young. They don't stop to consider my intelligence nor my experience because it doesn't occur to them that I've been a dancer for nearly a decade or might be a perfectly logical and reasonable human being since I'm only 19.

Do any of you commit ageism?
I don't believe I do if you consider what I said earlier. I admit that I am inclined to agree that there is a great number of horrible teenagers and that the majority might even be what I'd consider "horrible" but I'm not about to treat someone poorly because they are a high-schooler and might be a bad person. There are plenty of terrible people in their thirties or sixties too. It'd be stupid of me just to assume someone is a bad person because they are a part of a single age group.

As we grow older our reflexes get slower, our hearing diminishes and our vision worsens. However I won't automatically assume someone older is a bad driver based on their age, certainly not without proof. There are a lot of shocking drivers my own age too.

What can be done to reduce stigma with age and specific ages?
The same thing as anything else really. We need to educate people and we need to do whatever we can to (passively) oppose stigmas and not perpetuate them ourselves.

Do you think most ageism is justified? For example do you think it's almost certain that people's driving skills go down hill with age and we should be weary of all elderly drivers?
Discrimination and mistreatment is never justified.

Do you have respect for specific people who are younger than you, or older than you
Age has nothing to do with whether or not I respect people or not, I respect people based on whether or not I think they deserve it. There a plenty of good young people, and plenty of the could do with a crack in the head - the same is true of the elderly. Paying someone more or less respect based solely on the time they have spent alive is ridiculous because it is in no way an indicator of how good or bad a person they are.

As a side note though, I don't think that there are any seriously major issues resulting in the world as a result of ageism right now. It is wrong and it shouldn't be tolerated, but compared to real issues present in the world ageism is more of an annoyance than a social issue.