Red/Blue remakes on 3DS

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:

I think that besides the dumbing down they've learned a lot from the past two sets of remakes. Now I hope whatever they do remake next will solve the dumbing down (also HgSs succeeded where ORAS failed, a fun post game battle facility...sadly Emerald had one even more fun than HgSs but it wasn't used due to GF thinking people don't have enough time...yet fans manage to magically find time to EV train and breed perfect mons...).
As for the story...sadly the reason ORAS was dumbed down was due to people wanting to skip the story/not having time. Seriously though it feels so much better to finish something you put a lot of time into and had difficulty with rather than something that has horrible AI...and has nothing else to spend one's time challenging. GF may as well cut down the number of mons back to 151 to make it easier...

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Well, that's what the fandom has become, for better or worse. It's all about competitive battling, nowadays. The stories are meant to be buttom-mashed through as quickly as possible so you can get to the "real" part of the game--breeding and EV training. Oh, you wanted a postgame? Here's a battle facility full of cheaters to whip you into shape for the Metagame and give you Battle Points so you can buy Metagame Mandatory items and Move Tutors, because battling other people thousands of miles away with bits of data are what these games are all about. Start number crunching, and bow down to the Church of Smogon! [/sarcasm]

Yeah, I got a little carried away there, but it's the truth. The newest games seem to have been literally designed with competitive battling in mind as the primary goal (or, at least, the primary postgame). How, I long to see another GSC/HGSS-style postgame (or, even, FRLG-style one) again...

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:

Uh sorry for the rant there, back on topic. FrLg's credits reference Red, Green, Blue, and Yellow as the four mascots appear in the credits. So it seems GF acknowledgeds all four. I think Blue deserves to be acknowledged. And really international Red and Blue owe a lot to Jp Blue's as it's superior sprites were used instead of the awful RG sprites. Arguably Blue set things up for Yellow which set things up for GS (using similar graphics) as well as inspiring other third versions.

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I can see your argument. I just get tired of people dismissing Yellow in favor of JP Blue for blatantly biased reasons like "The anime sucks" or "The JP versions are better/more real." (Bonus points if they start arguing for Adventures being canon.) Like, seriously, dude? :|

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:

One of the arguements for Crystal setting the benchmark is due to having a mascot connected to the other two (something Jp Blue sets up) instead of a mascot that appeals to fans (people seem to have grown as tired of Pikachu as they did with Kanto at this point...but more seeming to like it's less looked upon evo Raichu) of the anime.

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One tiny quibble with that--Suicune isn't connected to Lugia. It's only connected to Ho-Oh, who happens to be its (and Raikou's and Entei's) Trio Master. (Hence, the reason why Ho-Oh got more backstory and development in GSC than Lugia did.)

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:

I hope that if GF remakes Yellow the starter will be Pichu holding Light Orb and with the item changed so it'll boost Pichu's stats too. That would make it somewhat different from Yellow. One can then gain access to a Thunder Stone after defeating Team Rocket at Celadon. Also they could add that canonizes Team Rocket's involvement in the birth of Mewtwo which isn't fully canon in the games or even really hinted at. They could have a post game plot where Giovanni goes to Celadon cave with the remnants of Team Rocket and manipulates Mewtwo like in the anime and forces to Mega Evolve (changing back and force between it's Mega evolutions). They could have a 7 or so year-old Silver appear and tell the player how he can stop Mewtwo which can escape Gio's grasp like Groudon and Kyogre did in the Hoenn games. Blue and the males of the E4 minus go and follow Mewtwo and tell the player to find a solution to all of this as she/he's the champ. A young mysterious boy (Silver) gives the player the gene from GSC which should attact Mewtwo to him/her but first must find Mew. Mew can then be found at one Island where Moltres was but before that the player is blocked by Team Rocket members looking for Gio who vanished after losing Mewtwo. They hear Team Rocket is busy looking for an item call the 'Emerald'(a reference to the Ruby and Sapphire in FrLg and how Mew thus far was only obtainable through capture (by event) in Emerald). Leaf/Red (appearing as a Sevii native) help the player and Lorerei battle off Team Rocket and find the stone at Four island but Archer and the executives retrieve it before. They then reach the HQ but are challenged by Team Rocket Excutives P and L. Luckily Oak and Agatha come and help fend them off allowing Leaf and Red an escape they battle A and A in a tag battle and retrieve the Emerald. Giovanni appears and tells the player to hand him the Emerald and battles the player after sending the opposite sex chara flying with his Nidoking. after defeating him Gio tells the player the Emerald actually an orb that is said to have attracted a Green Dragon to save a region in times of trouble. He tells the player he doesn't know how else to stop Mew. The player puts the Jade Orb away and gives Gio the gene and Leaf tells him of Mew, they all go to One island but everyone but the player is repelled by a strange barrier. The player is allowed inside and find Mew who is inside a cavern decorated with cave paintings of a strange looking Mew (Mega Mew) covered in light. The player fights Mew and gains a Mega Stone and the uses the gene to battle Mewtwo which nearly destroys Ember Island if not for Mew which emerges from it's Pokeball and challenges Mewtwo. Then one captures Mew and Giovanni leaves...TBC

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I'm not really... down with that. I'm still against the idea of starting with Pichu (even if you retcon it to make it stronger), and while I want to see a Team Rocket/Mewtwo story explored, this is just too over the top. Big no to the Jade Orb/Rayquaza stuff, especially, and I'm uncomfortable with giving an event Pokémon (Mew) that big of a role (as much as I loathe event Pokémon). You have some good ideas, but I'm just not feeling your execution.

I did go over the top didn't I? I'm a fan of over the top endings.

I was thinking about what Gen I re-remakes and Gen II re-remakes could offer/ reasons for they should be remade.

Gen I access to an older story, but nothing new sadly to add to it's starters or mascots (same thing though for Kanto minus Pikachu) like RS' remake did. In terms of story they could make Team Rocket do more dark stuff?

Gen II, access to a not so old story but with new forms of the starters and Mega Mascots/legends.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:

I did go over the top didn't I? I'm a fan of over the top endings.

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I'm more into smaller-scale, more realistic stories (one reason why I prefer Gens 1 and 2 to Gens 3 and 4). Team Rocket are the kinds of villains who exist in real life, a greedy corporation who only cares about making money, even if it's at the expense of the environment or the well-being of Pokémon. (The Grunts' preferences for Poison Types symbolizes this.) It's better to expand TR from that instead of trying to remake them in the image of Magma/Aqua or Galactic.

For example, maybe we could get a little bit of the Grunts' perspective, show them as being underpaid and unappreciated teenagers and young adults who were plucked off the streets with the promise of making money, only to find themselves slaving away for an abusive employer. (Jessie and James would be a good outlet for this story, and it would help set them apart from their anime counterparts and make them true game characters.)

And, we could also get a closer look on the ecological terror Team Rocket has wrought on Kanto. Let's see them violently tearing Mt. Moon apart for fossils, or dumping waste into that pond in Celadon. Cinnabar Mansion should look like a bombed out wasteland.

And, Mewtwo could be depicted as a victim of horrible abuse from Giovanni. It was pushed to the breaking point, and destroyed Cinnabar Mansion in anger, flying off to Cerulean Cave to hide out in peace. We could also show Silver (also horribly abused and neglected by Giovanni) striking up a connection with Mewtwo and following it to Cerulean Cave.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:

Gen I access to an older story, but nothing new sadly to add to it's starters or mascots (same thing though for Kanto minus Pikachu) like RS' remake did.

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Well, there's always new Megas. Dragonite is currently the only pre-Gen 5 Pseudo to not have one, and a Gen 1 remake would be a natural place to give it one. And, if Pidgeot and Beedrill have them, then why not Fearow and Butterfree, as well? Machamp and Golem should get Megas for parity with Alakazam and Gengar, and Jynx *needs* a Mega to make up for being passed over for an evolution in Gen 4. There are also several Gen 1 Pokémon, such as Tauros, Lapras, and Snorlax, who are too large/strong to evolve normally, yet aren't strong enough to hold their own in multiplayer (which is what matters, nowadays); Mega Evolutions were made for these kinds of Pokémon (see Kangaskhan).

There's also new trainer art. Official arts are now VS sprites, and pretty much any trainer art that predates Gen 4, at the earliest, isn't suitable for this purpose. Character designs changed a lot in Gens 4 and 5, and the pre-Gen 4 art doesn't tend to be of good picture quality, either. While most of the Gen 1 characters got new art in HGSS, there are five who didn't--Red, Leaf, Giovanni, Lorelei, and Agatha. (Who, along with Kris and Juan, also happen to be the only characters left in the entire series without modern artwork.) Without newer art, it will be harder to bring them back as opponents in future games, and a Gen 1 remake is a natural place to give them new art.

Gen 2, I'll get to later...

Team Rocket isn't a corporation...at least not in the typical sense. It's based off of the Yakuza (well the Mafia outside of Japan).

Mega Dragonite interestingly would fit a Gen II re-remake too...
But yeah to the rest of them which fit Kanto best. Brock could get Mega Golem in the rematches, Misty could get Mega Starmie(?), Lt. Surge Mega Raichu, Erika Mega Vileplume, Koga Mega Crobat, Sabrina Mega Alakazam, 7th gym leader who's name is skipping my head get's Mega Magmortar. Giovanni can get Mega Nidoking which he uses in the last match against him. Post game Blue replaces Giovanni and Lance takes the place as acting Champ (like how Steven asks Wallace to be (if/when he goes on a journey despite having the MC as recognized champion) in the end of the Delta Episode). Lance can then get Mega Dragonite. Meanwhile Agatha get's Mega Gengar, Lorelei get's Mega Slobro?, Bruno get's Mega Machamp, and Lance's replacement forget her name get's Mega...Houndoom? (the E4 will then have 3 women opposite of Gen II's 3 men E4).

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:

Team Rocket isn't a corporation...at least not in the typical sense. It's based off of the Yakuza (well the Mafia outside of Japan).

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They're still pretty close to being one, and that's where remakes should take them, capitalism run amok. My biggest complaint with Gen 6, as a whole, is that it veered way too much off into epic fantasy territory with giant 3000 year old men and multi-dimensional time travelers, all paired with the already ridiculously unrealistic plot of the Hoenn games. I can't relate to any of that, and it reads more like someone's fanfic of what a Pokémon game should be. I'd rather Pokémon *not* turn into Zelda, thank you very much.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:

Mega Dragonite interestingly would fit a Gen II re-remake too...
But yeah to the rest of them which fit Kanto best. Brock could get Mega Golem in the rematches, Misty could get Mega Starmie(?), Lt. Surge Mega Raichu, Erika Mega Vileplume, Koga Mega Crobat, Sabrina Mega Alakazam, 7th gym leader who's name is skipping my head get's Mega Magmortar. Giovanni can get Mega Nidoking which he uses in the last match against him. Post game Blue replaces Giovanni and Lance takes the place as acting Champ (like how Steven asks Wallace to be (if/when he goes on a journey despite having the MC as recognized champion) in the end of the Delta Episode). Lance can then get Mega Dragonite. Meanwhile Agatha get's Mega Gengar, Lorelei get's Mega Slobro?, Bruno get's Mega Machamp, and Lance's replacement forget her name get's Mega...Houndoom? (the E4 will then have 3 women opposite of Gen II's 3 men E4).

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The 7th Gym Leader is Blaine, and "Lance's replacement" is Karen, FYI.

I have a few quibbles with some of these Megas. Erika should have Bellossom (Grass/Fairy) instead of Vileplume, as that was her ace in GSC/HGSS (evolved from the Gloom from Yellow), and Giovanni should have Rhyperior instead of Nidoking, as his ace has always been the Rhyhorn line. And, Lorelei should have either Jynx (Ice/Fairy) or Lapras (Water or Water/Fairy), as those have always been her aces (probably the latter, knowing how much GF hates the former).

I like the idea of Viridian Gym and the E4 changing to foreshadow Gen 2. It's about time that we had a female-dominated E4, even if only temporarily, and it would be a great excuse to flesh out Karen more (one of my faves, along with Lorelei and Lance).

BettyNewbie said:

They're still pretty close to being one, and that's where remakes should take them, capitalism run amok. My biggest complaint with Gen 6, as a whole, is that it veered way too much off into epic fantasy territory with giant 3000 year old men and multi-dimensional time travelers, all paired with the already ridiculously unrealistic plot of the Hoenn games. I can't relate to any of that, and it reads more like someone's fanfic of what a Pokémon game should be. I'd rather Pokémon *not* turn into Zelda, thank you very much.



The 7th Gym Leader is Blaine, and "Lance's replacement" is Karen, FYI.

I have a few quibbles with some of these Megas. Erika should have Bellossom (Grass/Fairy) instead of Vileplume, as that was her ace in GSC/HGSS (evolved from the Gloom from Yellow), and Giovanni should have Rhyperior instead of Nidoking, as his ace has always been the Rhyhorn line. And, Lorelei should have either Jynx (Ice/Fairy) or Lapras (Water or Water/Fairy), as those have always been her aces (probably the latter, knowing how much GF hates the former).

I like the idea of Viridian Gym and the E4 changing to foreshadow Gen 2. It's about time that we had a female-dominated E4, if only temporarily, and it would be a great excuse to flesh out Karen more (one of my faves, along with Lorelei and Lance).

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Not really...only resemblance I see is the for profit thing and even small stores have that going on...the only true corporation we see in the Kanto games is Silph Co. and they're nice people from what we've seen (despite what Lysander and Archie have said about humans this Generation they haven't shown anything that makes humans apart from the evil teams come off as greedy or destructive in all six Gens. Also if Team Rocket were treated as a Co. Silph Co. offers a nice contrast, showing not all corporations are evil). Speaking of Silph co. I'll like for Kanto to get it's own Pokegear expy. Or maybe even the Pokegear. Maybe the Pokegear 7?

Then Bellossom it should be. Really? Giovanni lacks Rhyperior (or any member of the line) in his HgSs team while he has the Nidoroyals in all of his teams. I think Mega Rhyperior should be pure Ground with Solid Rock as it's ability to parallel Mega Aggron (Aggron's line is an expy of the Rhyhorn line down to the whole military (samurai for Aggron) theme going on with it's Mega to parallel Rhyperior.)

I just want Yellow to be forgotten... It was a non-canon game anyway and only worth because of the sprites and certain small updates to movepools.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:

Not really...only resemblance I see is the for profit thing and even small stores have that going on...the only true corporation we see in the Kanto games is Silph Co. and they're nice people from what we've seen (despite what Lysander and Archie have said about humans this Generation they haven't shown anything that makes humans apart from the evil teams come off as greedy or destructive in all six Gens. Also if Team Rocket were treated as a Co. Silph Co. offers a nice contrast, showing not all corporations are evil). Speaking of Silph co. I'll like for Kanto to get it's own Pokegear expy. Or maybe even the Pokegear. Maybe the Pokegear 7?

Then Bellossom it should be. Really? Giovanni lacks Rhyperior (or any member of the line) in his HgSs team while he has the Nidoroyals in all of his teams. I think Mega Rhyperior should be pure Ground with Solid Rock as it's ability to parallel Mega Aggron (Aggron's line is an expy of the Rhyhorn line down to the whole military (samurai for Aggron) theme going on with it's Mega to parallel Rhyperior.)

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Mega Rhyperior would be a Rock type, because he has Rock Wrecker and it would be really silly for him to be pure Ground and have the ultimate Rock-type move.

Cerberus87 said:

I just want Yellow to be forgotten... It was a non-canon game anyway and only worth because of the sprites and certain small updates to movepools.



Mega Rhyperior would be a Rock type, because he has Rock Wrecker and it would be really silly for him to be pure Ground and have the ultimate Rock-type move.

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I guess that's true, but then again they gave Genesect a non-bug signature move...
I wouldn't like it though if Giovanni got a non Ground type as his Mega though...that'll be like Winona getting Mega Altaria right there.

GF recognizes Yellow in FrLg's credits so it's canoness may be debatable (also going by a narrow view of what is canon DP aren't canon as Pt is the Canon, like wise for RS...maybe. Yet RS got remakes and DP is likely to get them too.) in the long run of things.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:

I guess that's true, but then again they gave Genesect a non-bug signature move...
I wouldn't like it though if Giovanni got a non Ground type as his Mega though...that'll be like Winona getting Mega Altaria right there.

GF recognizes Yellow in FrLg's credits so it's canoness may be debatable (also going by a narrow view of what is canon DP aren't canon as Pt is the Canon, like wise for RS...maybe. Yet RS got remakes and DP is likely to get them too.) in the long run of things.

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It's not canon because Blue's team is completely different, Jessie and James are never mentioned outside of the game, etc.

It was just a spinoff developed to capitalize on the anime.

Red's team mirrors what he gets in Yellow, though.

Cerberus87 said:

I just want Yellow to be forgotten... It was a non-canon game anyway and only worth because of the sprites and certain small updates to movepools.

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GSC disagree with you (especially, when it comes to Red's team). If you hate the game, fine, but leave your bias at the door. I can't stand RSE, myself, but I'd never claim that they weren't canon because of that.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:

Not really...only resemblance I see is the for profit thing and even small stores have that going on...the only true corporation we see in the Kanto games is Silph Co. and they're nice people from what we've seen (despite what Lysander and Archie have said about humans this Generation they haven't shown anything that makes humans apart from the evil teams come off as greedy or destructive in all six Gens. Also if Team Rocket were treated as a Co. Silph Co. offers a nice contrast, showing not all corporations are evil).

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We'll just have to agree to disagree on this. When I look at Team Rocket, all I see are greedy, destructive capitalists, which is exactly how I'd want them to be portrayed in a remake. Show us capitalism run amok, just like you see in the real world all too much.

Of course, being a bigger fan of the Hoenn games, I can see why you'd want TR to be portrayed as more fantastical villains with more "epic" goals like Magma and Aqua. We obviously have different tastes in storytelling. ;)

Cerberus87 said:

I'll like for Kanto to get it's own Pokegear expy. Or maybe even the Pokegear. Maybe the Pokegear 7?

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I agree. I'd go with the Pokégear, itself, to keep the connection with Gen 2. (BW and B2W2 both had the C-Gear, after all.)

Cerberus87 said:

Really? Giovanni lacks Rhyperior (or any member of the line) in his HgSs team while he has the Nidoroyals in all of his teams.

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It was his ace in the vast majority of his appearances (including B2W2), though, and it's a Pokémon that's associated with him. Plus, it's a more "neutral" pick than the Nidoroyals (who are gender counterparts).

Cerberus87 said:

I think Mega Rhyperior should be pure Ground with Solid Rock as it's ability to parallel Mega Aggron (Aggron's line is an expy of the Rhyhorn line down to the whole military (samurai for Aggron) theme going on with it's Mega to parallel Rhyperior.)

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I'm down with that. Ground/Rock is a horrible typing, anyways.

BettyNewbie said:

GSC disagree with you (especially, when it comes to Red's team). If you hate the game, fine, but leave your bias at the door. I can't stand RSE, myself, but I'd never claim that they weren't canon because of that.

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Red's team is the ONLY thing from Yellow that was canonized. All the other teams are different and based on RGB.

Changes that Yellow introduced: Red starting with Pikachu and getting all the Kanto starters, Blue starting with Eevee, Jessie and James. The only thing they kept from Yellow was Red getting all the starters + Pikachu, the rest are from RGB. Blue's team in GSC is his team from RB without the starters. Jessie and James aren't mentioned anywhere in GSC either, nor in any subsequent games. And even Red can get Lapras/Eevee and Snorlax in RB, too.

RSE is my least favorite gen but they're obviously canon, unlike Yellow.

Cerberus87 said:

Red's team is the ONLY thing from Yellow that was canonized. All the other teams are different and based on RGB.

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Not so! I posted this at another site:

The most canon version of Generation 1's story is undoubtedly Yellow. There's just no getting around Red's canon team. Why else would he have an overleveled Pikachu as his ace if it wasn't his (non-evolving) starter? And, in what other game could you get all three Kanto starters without trading? Based on Snorlax and Espeon, his team was clearly meant to be entirely made up of Gift/Event Pokémon, and Yellow is the only game where all of those Pokémon were given to you.

But, it's more than just Red's team. It's Koga and Erika, as well. Koga's ace was Weezing in Red/Blue, while it was Venomoth in Yellow. Guess which was on his GSC team? (Hint: It was the violet moth.)

Similarly, Erika's ace was Vileplume in Red/Blue, while it was Gloom in Yellow. Her ace was Bellossom in GSC. Bellossom comes from Gloom, not Vileplume. You do the math.

And, it's also worth pointing out that Red and Blue's GSC sprites are direct recolors of their sprites from Yellow. The Yellow sprites also happen to more closely resemble their official art than the Red and Blue sprites.

The only thing in GSC that explicitly points back to Red/Blue instead of Yellow is Blue's team, but even then, it didn't include a starter, so that doesn't mean a whole lot. And, that's just one Red/Blue reference among all of these Yellow references.

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Cerberus87 said:

Jessie and James aren't mentioned anywhere in GSC either, nor in any subsequent games.

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By that standard, Lorelei and Agatha aren't canon characters, either.

Cerberus87 said:

RSE is my least favorite gen but they're obviously canon, unlike Yellow.

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You wouldn't vehemently deny that a main series game was canon unless you absolutely hated it. And, let me guess why, "The anime sucks," right? :rolleyes2:

BettyNewbie said:

GSC disagree with you (especially, when it comes to Red's team). If you hate the game, fine, but leave your bias at the door. I can't stand RSE, myself, but I'd never claim that they weren't canon because of that.



We'll just have to agree to disagree on this. When I look at Team Rocket, all I see are greedy, destructive capitalists, which is exactly how I'd want them to be portrayed in a remake. Show us capitalism run amok, just like you see in the real world all too much.

Of course, being a bigger fan of the Hoenn games, I can see why you'd want TR to be portrayed as more fantastical villains with more "epic" goals like Magma and Aqua. We obviously have different tastes in storytelling. ;)



I agree. I'd go with the Pokégear, itself, to keep the connection with Gen 2. (BW and B2W2 both had the C-Gear, after all.)



It was his ace in the vast majority of his appearances (including B2W2), though, and it's a Pokémon that's associated with him. Plus, it's a more "neutral" pick than the Nidoroyals (who are gender counterparts).



I'm down with that. Ground/Rock is a horrible typing, anyways.

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My stance on Team Rocket not being a corp has nothing to do with my like for more fantastical teams xD (they're a black market group which has existed in nearly all economic/political systems at least in modern times such as in Socialism to Capitalism, to Fascism, to Communism).

I wouldn't mind an evil team that just did things like Team Rocket does but ends up causing the wrath of nature (the legendary) instead of having another Cyrus or Lysander...or Archie or Maxie (the four of which had the zanniest plots). Though controlling a legendary for Team Rocket wouldn't be so out of place as their greed could lead them to seeking the ultimate power in their world (Mewtwo in the case of Kanto). But that last one would simply make Giovanni into a Ghetsis like character...minus the crazy...
Speaking of Greed I recall reading about how Yakuza (which TR is based on) supposedly were samurai and had to protect the people. They could have it that Giovanni made TR to combat crime but then his greed cause it to become a criminal group itself.
How did you ended up quoting Cerberus for something I said (the Pokegear 7 thing) 0_o...hate it when the site glitches.

If they do dual versions he could have one Nidoroyal in each.

Anyways earlier I mentioned Mew. After playing the Delta Episode I have the feeling that GF will make one event legend obtainable in game to cut down on event mons, at least in remakes. With DP remakes having Giratina versus Arceus. FrLg remakes would have Mewtwo versus Mew. HgSs could have a post game plot dealing with Celebi.

BettyNewbie said:

The most canon version of Generation 1's story is undoubtedly Yellow. There's just no getting around Red's canon team. Why else would he have an overleveled Pikachu as his ace if it wasn't his (non-evolving) starter? And, in what other game could you get all three Kanto starters without trading? Based on Snorlax and Espeon, his team was clearly meant to be entirely made up of Gift/Event Pokémon, and Yellow is the only game where all of those Pokémon were given to you.

But, it's more than just Red's team. It's Koga and Erika, as well. Koga's ace was Weezing in Red/Blue, while it was Venomoth in Yellow. Guess which was on his GSC team? (Hint: It was the violet moth.)

Similarly, Erika's ace was Vileplume in Red/Blue, while it was Gloom in Yellow. Her ace was Bellossom in GSC. Bellossom comes from Gloom, not Vileplume. You do the math.

And, it's also worth pointing out that Red and Blue's GSC sprites are direct recolors of their sprites from Yellow. The Yellow sprites also happen to more closely resemble their official art than the Red and Blue sprites.

The only thing in GSC that explicitly points back to Red/Blue instead of Yellow is Blue's team, but even then, it didn't include a starter, so that doesn't mean a whole lot. And, that's just one Red/Blue reference among all of these Yellow references.

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Other gym leaders are completely different. Koga's ace is Crobat, not Venomoth, and Muk comes from his RGB team, as he doesn't have Muk in Yellow (only Venonat/Venomoth). Sabrina has Mr.Mime in RGB and GSC, while she doesn't in Yellow. Blaine has Magmar in GSC as a nod to the anime, but, ironically, as Yellow was based on the anime, he still has Arcanine as his ace in that game (in GSC it was Rapidash) and he doesn't have Magmar. Finally, Giovanni lacks Persian in all his subsequent in-game appearances. He only has Persian in Stadium, but, guess what, Stadium isn't canon!

Erika having Bellossom instead of Vileplume was probably just a retcon to showcase a Johto Pokémon, not a nod to Yellow.

Koga doesn't have Weezing in GSC, but Janine does. A possible explanation could be that the Pokémon was passed down to her.

Anyway, why are we discussing GSC art when it's no longer canon anyway, with the release of HGSS? Red's team in HGSS is a bigger nod to the anime than to Yellow, since Ash never had an Eevee but he did have a Lapras.

And you act like Blue's team is nothing when it's probably one of the biggest things that connect RGB and GSC, considering Blue's prominence in the game and status as an enemy trainer. The art doesn't mean a whole lot, they probably went with what was most updated at the time, since the RB sprites were really old. Blue's team in GSC, however, is the same as in RGB, not Yellow.

If Yellow was really canon, they wouldn't have completely ignored it when they made FRLG, and they wouldn't have bothered creating a Pokémon Origins anime since the regular anime would be the canon thing for all things 1st gen.

Speaking of Pokémon Origins, I really think it's the biggest reason why they won't remake 1st gen again. The alternate dimension with Mega Evolution in Kanto (as per Zinnia's words on the two Hoenns) was already shown in Origins. There's no need for another set of games in Kanto.

BettyNewbie said:

Yellow was Gen 1's Third Version, like it or not. Just because it took a few cues from the anime doesn't make it any less canon (or less good, as this argument usually implies).



Oh, yeah, old games on Ebay, what a solution. Get ready to plop down $250.00 for a 15 year old game (more than $200 more than a new copy of OmegaRuby), and if it's any cheaper than that, then there's a 90% chance it's a bootleg. And, have I mentioned that the Gen 1 games suffer from dead batteries, too? Or, that you need a handheld that hasn't been produced in almost a decade to even play them? Or, that they're full of glitches and have graphics like this?



We've only seen it four times (the last of which was half a decade ago), one of which was because of a sequel, and the other two times because of remakes. And, Gen 1 Kanto =/ Gen 2 Kanto.

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sorry did you even look at the links ? plenty of german games around from private sellers lol. besides you can still use emulators anyway. and the handheld is as easy to get used on ebay for no cost at all . i had an old dark gba and got myself a gba spa actually it was a gameshop for used games. i paid 100 euro for blue, sapphire and a gba sp. there were stll plenty of other blue and red, yellow etc. i d like a remake but it should be a new story, i aint go hunting through silph co again... kanto with a new story.

Cerberus87 said:

Other gym leaders are completely different. Koga's ace is Crobat, not Venomoth, and Muk comes from his RGB team, as he doesn't have Muk in Yellow (only Venonat/Venomoth). Sabrina has Mr.Mime in RGB and GSC, while she doesn't in Yellow.

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It's assumed that they added the Pokémon to their teams in-between Gens 1 and 2, because otherwise, they'd be using teams of nothing but Venonat/Venomoth and Abra/Kadabra/Alakazam. :|

Cerberus87 said:

Blaine has Magmar in GSC as a nod to the anime, but, ironically, as Yellow was based on the anime, he still has Arcanine as his ace in that game (in GSC it was Rapidash) and he doesn't have Magmar..

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They changed Blaine's ace in Gen 2 so he wouldn't have the same one as Blue.

Cerberus87 said:

Erika having Bellossom instead of Vileplume was probably just a retcon to showcase a Johto Pokémon, not a nod to Yellow.

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So, you would rather accept a RETCON than argue for that "icky anime game" being canon? Give me a damn break! :rolleyes2:

And, Bellossom is a Generation 2 Pokémon, not a "Johto Pokémon."

Cerberus87 said:

Koga doesn't have Weezing in GSC, but Janine does. A possible explanation could be that the Pokémon was passed down to her.

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Which is only a HEADCANON.

Cerberus87 said:

Anyway, why are we discussing GSC art when it's no longer canon anyway, with the release of HGSS? Red's team in HGSS is a bigger nod to the anime than to Yellow, since Ash never had an Eevee but he did have a Lapras.

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Because, the original thread was about the ORIGINAL games, not the remakes. (Which are a different timeline.)

Cerberus87 said:

And you act like Blue's team is nothing when it's probably one of the biggest things that connect RGB and GSC, considering Blue's prominence in the game and status as an enemy trainer.

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Because, it's the only EXPLICIT RB reference, and he HAS NO STARTER.

Cerberus87 said:

If Yellow was really canon, they wouldn't have completely ignored it when they made FRLG

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Based on that logic, Emerald isn't canon, either. GF hates Third Versions, in general. (Which is what Yellow is, whine and moan about it all you want.)

Cerberus87 said:

and they wouldn't have bothered creating a Pokémon Origins anime since the regular anime would be the canon thing for all things 1st gen.

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They made Origins as a marketing ploy to get older Gen fans excited for XY, not to serve as a "replacement" for the anime with Ash (neither of which will EVER be game canon).

Cerberus87 said:

Speaking of Pokémon Origins, I really think it's the biggest reason why they won't remake 1st gen again. The alternate dimension with Mega Evolution in Kanto (as per Zinnia's words on the two Hoenns) was already shown in Origins. There's no need for another set of games in Kanto.

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Again, Origins IS NOT CANON. It's an ADAPTATION, and nothing more. It's NOT a replacement for a new remake and frankly, I don't WANT it to be.

morrison said:

sorry did you even look at the links ? plenty of german games around from private sellers lol. besides you can still use emulators anyway. and the handheld is as easy to get used on ebay for no cost at all . i had an old dark gba and got myself a gba spa actually it was a gameshop for used games. i paid 100 euro for blue, sapphire and a gba sp. there were stll plenty of other blue and red, yellow etc. i d like a remake but it should be a new story, i aint go hunting through silph co again... kanto with a new story.

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Emulators will never be a solution, as they aren't 100% legal and have no access with the current games. And, it's not a remake if it has a brand-new story; it's a sequel, which can't happen anyways, since there wouldn't be anything for it to be a sequel of.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:

I wouldn't mind an evil team that just did things like Team Rocket does but ends up causing the wrath of nature (the legendary) instead of having another Cyrus or Lysander...or Archie or Maxie (the four of which had the zanniest plots). Though controlling a legendary for Team Rocket wouldn't be so out of place as their greed could lead them to seeking the ultimate power in their world (Mewtwo in the case of Kanto). But that last one would simply make Giovanni into a Ghetsis like character...minus the crazy...
Speaking of Greed I recall reading about how Yakuza (which TR is based on) supposedly were samurai and had to protect the people. They could have it that Giovanni made TR to combat crime but then his greed cause it to become a criminal group itself.

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Sorry, but I have zero interest in that story. Too much epic fantasy, and not enough realism. It turns the world of Gen 1 into something I can't relate to at all. -_-

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:

How did you ended up quoting Cerberus for something I said (the Pokegear 7 thing) 0_o...hate it when the site glitches.

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Whoops, I hate that, too.

Who says it has to be a sequel. ? Take kanto make a new story no matter what the time frame is. also they can still reboot the 1st gen, as just because it doesnt fit in current canon doesnt mean they cant reboot it so it fits. so many different canons next to each other you cant really call them canon rather than different realities.

morrison said:

Who says it has to be a sequel. ? Take kanto make a new story no matter what the time frame is. also they can still reboot the 1st gen, as just because it doesnt fit in current canon doesnt mean they cant reboot it so it fits. so many different canons next to each other you cant really call them canon rather than different realities.

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Well, that's actually what I want to see, Gen 1 rebooted to fit with the new timeline. I'd hate to see another copy/paste remake like FRLG.

BettyNewbie said:

Well, that's actually what I want to see, Gen 1 rebooted to fit with the new timeline. I'd hate to see another copy/paste remake like FRLG.

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Speaking of copy and paste OrAs was a little too faithful to the original gym teams of RS in terms of mons (I think the others have been too minus a few downgrades such as Giovanni's Rhydon). Another Kanto remake may end up having the gym leaders be a little too faithful to FrLg or RGB/Y's teams.


As for GF hating third versions...well they did add in elements of Crystal and Emerald into the game, especially the post game with their capture being where you get them in their third versions (I think as I never played crystal nor looked it up much) so they don't hate them that much. Only Yellow was ignored in the remakes feature wise.


Btw while FrLg were praised by professional critics one of the critiques they had with the games was that it wasn't all that graphically different from RS (funny how RS's remakes though do look more graphically better than XY do...so were HgSs better looking than Pt before them too). Gf said in HgSs that they like too keep the story as close to the originals as possible while making the games a new expereience. I think OrAs was a good balance of change and keeping it the same for them to follow for a new Kanto remake.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:

Speaking of copy and paste OrAs was a little too faithful to the original gym teams of RS in terms of mons (I think the others have been too minus a few downgrades such as Giovanni's Rhydon). Another Kanto remake may end up having the gym leaders be a little too faithful to FrLg or RGB/Y's teams.

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Yuck, I hope not. To be honest, outside of a few things like the VS Seeker and the Sevii Islands (which should look very different, anyways), new Gen 1 remakes would be wise to just ignore FRLG and act like they were remaking the original games from scratch. One of the biggest reasons for new Gen 1 remakes is how flawed and poorly-handled FRLG were, anyways, and the new games should not commit those same mistakes.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:

As for GF hating third versions...well they did add in elements of Crystal and Emerald into the game, especially the post game with their capture being where you get them in their third versions (I think as I never played crystal nor looked it up much) so they don't hate them that much. Only Yellow was ignored in the remakes feature wise.

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Emerald was largely ignored as well, outside of a cameo appearance of Wallace's Champion team in the Delta Episode thing. The Gym Leaders all had their RS teams (to the disappointment of many fans), the plot followed RS, and Emerald exclusives like Juan and the Battle Frontier were nowhere to be found (also to the disappointment of many fans). Only Crystal has been fully acknowledged by its Gen's remakes, which is a pretty lousy track record, IMO. (And, doesn't bode well for Platinum in eventual Gen 4 remakes.)

If Generation 5 and (probably) Generation 6 are anything to go by, GF seems to have largely abandoned the idea of Third Versions in favor of sequels, and seeing as B2W2 ended up selling better than any Third Version besides Yellow (7.81 million vs Crystal's 6.39 million, Emerald's 6.41 million, and Platinum's 7.59 million; the only reason B2W2's sales weren't even higher was because the games were released for a dying handheld), it's a wise financial decision, especially now that XY (13.29 million) have dethroned RS (15.85 million) as the franchise's worst-selling paired games.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:

Btw while FrLg were praised by professional critics one of the critiques they had with the games was that it wasn't all that graphically different from RS (funny how RS's remakes though do look more graphically better than XY do...so were HgSs better looking than Pt before them too).

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That's because they didn't take the time to make FRLG look any better. Yet again, another reason why they should've waited until Gen 4 to make the games.

(And, the Gen 3 games already had pretty mediocre graphics by GBA standards, IMO. Just look at some of the hacks on this very site to see what the handheld was actually capable of.)

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:

Gf said in HgSs that they like too keep the story as close to the originals as possible while making the games a new expereience. I think OrAs was a good balance of change and keeping it the same for them to follow for a new Kanto remake.

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Well, HGSS and ORAS did an acceptable job of of that. It was FRLG that was a lazy copy/paste.