Plan B pills now over the counter - agree or disagree?

Fenneking said:

I can see this being an issue. Though, I would be more concerned about boyfriends, husbands, ect. slipping the pills the women's drinks. The woman might be baby crazy, where as here significant other doesn't want to have children or additional children. I can see this being a prevalent issue with not restricting the pill by sex. Further, like certain other over the counter medications, pseudoephedrine or ephedrine, there should be a database of purchase record in order to oversee these issues. Since, women can purchase these pills for men, who can use them on women, or women can use them on other women. For instance a friend, sister, mother, to either party might also not want the woman to have a child. Additionally, age might be a factor! A 60 year old woman should not be buying plan-b periodically, for reasons aforementioned. I would agree with restricting by age and sex, as well as keep a Federal database in order to address abuses.

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Honestly, how often will these types of cases come up? It seems like a plot to a bad drama, to be honest. Plan-B pills are supposed to help women who want to be in charge of their reproductive rights, not a go-to for people who want to sabotage a woman's pregnancy. It just seems incredibly unlikely that these kinds of acts would become prevalent now that Plan-B is over-the-counter.

I honestly think this is a great thing because it would help prevent a lot of unprepared pregnancies. I'm sorry folks, but underage sex and premarital sex is gonna happen. We're a horny species and that's just how it works. Having something that can protect both a life from having a difficult existence and people from raising an unexpected child is something that is beneficial, because then when you're ready to actually have a child you can take care of it.

Condoms don't work all the time so having a plan B is a good thing. Yeah I know there's people who are gonna abuse it but what are you gonna do?

Silais said:

Honestly, how often will these types of cases come up? It seems like a plot to a bad drama, to be honest. Plan-B pills are supposed to help women who want to be in charge of their reproductive rights, not a go-to for people who want to sabotage a woman's pregnancy. It just seems incredibly unlikely that these kinds of acts would become prevalent now that Plan-B is over-the-counter.

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Exactly, in control of their own reproductive rights.

Actually, many men don't want their girlfriends, one-night-stands, or several of the women they are having a sexual relationship to have their baby, a huge burden on the father financially; it's not their right to decide the woman's reproductive rights. Men slip women date rape drugs all of the time, it's very easy and accessible to give a person plan-b unknowingly, especially if men are able to purchase plan-b without a hitch, legally, otc, with no record. To think that this would not be a significant issue given the motive and the high accessibility of doing so, it would be naive to ignore the issue. Simply, like other controlled otc medications, a simple database would actually assist in keeping a record that would ensure that women are more in control of their own reproductive rights. A woman would just have to present a state ID, and purchase the medication. Additionally, by giving the drug oversight stipulations, the legislation is more favorable public policy to those that oppose it, thus giving the policy more legitimacy and traction in the public sphere to ensure the policy's longevity in the political process.

Fenneking said:

Exactly, in control of their own reproductive rights.

Actually, many men don't want their girlfriends, one-night-stands, or several of the women they are having a sexual relationship to have their baby, a huge burden on the father financially; it's not their right to decide the woman's reproductive rights. Men slip women date rape drugs all of the time, it's very easy and accessible to give a person plan-b unknowingly, especially if men are able to purchase plan-b without a hitch, legally, otc, with no record. To think that this would not be a significant issue given the motive and the high accessibility of doing so, it would be naive to ignore the issue. Simply, like other controlled otc medications, a simple database would actually assist in keeping a record that would ensure that women are more in control of their own reproductive rights. A woman would just have to present a state ID, and purchase the medication. Additionally, by giving the drug oversight stipulations, the legislation is more favorable public policy to those that oppose it, thus giving the policy more legitimacy and traction in the public sphere to ensure the policy's longevity in the political process.

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I'm sorry, but this seems so unlikely. I really do not think that now that Plan-B is over-the-counter there will be an influx of women unknowingly taking Plan-B pills because their husbands/boyfriends do not want children.

Silais said:

I'm sorry, but this seems so unlikely. I really do not think that now that Plan-B is over-the-counter there will be an influx of women unknowingly taking Plan-B pills because their husbands/boyfriends do not want children.

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Can you offer an explanation as to how you have reached this conclusion?

Also, I make the claim only in the case that anyone is permitted to buy the drug, regardless of fertility or gender, and/or there is no regulation in the form of a database, similar to other otc drugs, rather than otc availability in all of its form would engender this dilemma. The only burden is to provide a State ID. It's a fairly simple system that would protect abuse. And, as I listed, help legitimize the policy in the public sphere.

So far, the only reasoning offered in response each time is, "it's unlikely because it's unlikely." A common argument fallacy. Many men don't want to marry women that they sleep with, let alone have children with them. This is not just boyfriends and husbands, of which may also not want children.

Take for example when proper preventative measures are not taken, and a female finds out she is pregnant a couple weeks afterward, it is very common that the male will requests for the woman to have an abortion due to the financial/emotional obligation, but in essence he has no control over the decision of the mother in most legal aspects.

This is a very real and fairly common conflict. Men very often don't want to be tied down in a relationship/marriage or have children with some women they sleep with. And when those proper measures of preventative contraception are not utilized, and again, a large number of sexual activity fails to use adequate preventative measures, the male would very likely utilize the non-regulated/tracked use of the otc Plan-B to avoid financial responsibilities without any legal repercussions on the reasonable chance that he fertilized the woman's egg.

Administering a person a medication is extremely easy without their knowledge; it's getting the medication that is usually the difficult part. It would be at least 10 times easier to dose a woman with plan-b than it would be to put rufilin in her drink because it's an illicit non-prescribed drug, whereas in this case it is not. And, even that is a common phenomena that is easily facilitated. Thus, why not keep a database of the drug's use, like other otc medications in order to make it more difficult and more reprehensible for those who wish to abuse the medication given the clear intent and accessibility of abusing of the drug?

1) Women would retain more reproductive control. 2) Policy Legitimization.

Again, I never state that Plan-B ought to be prescription. Rather, OTC with a few simple regulations is more beneficial to society than is Plan-B OCT without some of these regulations.

Silais said:

How is the marketing sickening?

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In my state New York the forcing on teens my age and younger that's why i find it sicking

Rodriguezjames55 said:

In my state New York the forcing on teens my age and younger that's why i find it sicking

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I'm pretty sure that's not actually what's going on. Plan B is not forced upon anyone, it's designed as an alternative contraceptive if for whatever reason the first may fail, and is meant to be a back up plan to prevent pregnancy. Most of the people who are against Plan B are either against it because they disapprove of any contraceptive/abortion due to religious reasons, they feel that women shouldn't be allowed to have an alternative because they were "whoring themselves out in the first place" or because of medical complications, not because of any forceful use. Considering your record in other threads it seems like you're probably not aware of the current situation and are misinformed either by propaganda, misinterpretation and/or just general mild misogyny.

Fenneking said:

Can you offer an explanation as to how you have reached this conclusion?

Also, I make the claim only in the case that anyone is permitted to buy the drug, regardless of fertility or gender, and/or there is no regulation in the form of a database, similar to other otc drugs, rather than otc availability in all of its form would engender this dilemma. The only burden is to provide a State ID. It's a fairly simple system that would protect abuse. And, as I listed, help legitimize the policy in the public sphere.

So far, the only reasoning offered in response each time is, "it's unlikely because it's unlikely." A common argument fallacy. Many men don't want to marry women that they sleep with, let alone have children with them. This is not just boyfriends and husbands, of which may also not want children.

Take for example when proper preventative measures are not taken, and a female finds out she is pregnant a couple weeks afterward, it is very common that the male will requests for the woman to have an abortion due to the financial/emotional obligation, but in essence he has no control over the decision of the mother in most legal aspects.

This is a very real and fairly common conflict. Men very often don't want to be tied down in a relationship/marriage or have children with some women they sleep with. And when those proper measures of preventative contraception are not utilized, and again, a large number of sexual activity fails to use adequate preventative measures, the male would very likely utilize the non-regulated/tracked use of the otc Plan-B to avoid financial responsibilities without any legal repercussions on the reasonable chance that he fertilized the woman's egg.

Administering a person a medication is extremely easy without their knowledge; it's getting the medication that is usually the difficult part. It would be at least 10 times easier to dose a woman with plan-b than it would be to put rufilin in her drink because it's an illicit non-prescribed drug, whereas in this case it is not. And, even that is a common phenomena that is easily facilitated. Thus, why not keep a database of the drug's use, like other otc medications in order to make it more difficult and more reprehensible for those who wish to abuse the medication given the clear intent and accessibility of abusing of the drug?

1) Women would retain more reproductive control. 2) Policy Legitimization.

Again, I never state that Plan-B ought to be prescription. Rather, OTC with a few simple regulations is more beneficial to society than is Plan-B OCT without some of these regulations.

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I think you're underestimating my intelligence, which is something I do not appreciate. I am aware that drug abuse exists in all forms, including forced abortions, and I can see how some people may expect abuse to occur now that Plan-B is over-the-counter. However, you could say that about just any drug, including cold medicine and aspirin.

There have been no reported deaths or serious complications with the use of Plan-B since it's over-the-counter status. However, people have died from overdoses of acetaminophen and aspirin. Even Epsom Salts have been abused to the point of cardiac arrest. People hold Plan-B to a different standard because it is connected to sexual activity, but no one has taken a fatal dose of Plan-B. The worst symptoms of taking Plan-B include nausea/vomiting, dizziness, and fatigue. The worst symptoms of other over-the-counter drugs can be much, much worse. Take it from someone with serious medical problems, who has taken over fifty different types of medication in her lifetime.

That doesn't mean that forced abortion is not wrong. I am simply stating that any drug can be abused, not just this medication, and it seems silly to put Plan-B in a pedestal as if its abuse is worse than the abuse of other over-the-counter medications. It is, simply, not correct. To me, the fact that there are few restrictions on Plan-B is a good thing, a very good thing. Let women take more control over their reproduction. Yes, I'm sure there will be abuse—but as I had said before, I expect it to be unlikely and less serious that people are worried it will be.

Silais said:

I think you're underestimating my intelligence, which is something I do not appreciate. I am aware that drug abuse exists in all forms, including forced abortions, and I can see how some people may expect abuse to occur now that Plan-B is over-the-counter. However, you could say that about just any drug, including cold medicine and aspirin.

Seems silly to put Plan-B in a pedestal as if its abuse is worse than the abuse of other over-the-counter medications...People hold Plan-B to a different standard because it is connected to sexual activity.

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I have only rebutted certain points. You may interpret that as an insult. Taking an issue personally is counter productive to the discussion since I have not made any personal attacks and do not intend to do so any time in the future.

Cold medicines and aspirin are disparate in the respect to intent. They are both very accessible, but as I stated, intent and accessibility are both major requisites to a drug's abuse. Intent hasn't been demonstrated in your comparison of other otc medications such as aspirin, though you agree that there is intent in Plan-B abuse by those who have much to benefit from dosing another individual. Pseudoephedrines are controlled otc medication, they are regulated since there exists an intent to abuse for recreational drug purposes. Plan-B medication may not have a recreational abuse, but rather, it has another significant abuse possibility as I explained prior, that relates to another intention of abuse. Other otc medications also have special regulations that are justifiable, thus, it's not singling out this one particular otc medication over a personal bias since I have substantiated how it's different from otc medications with low intentions of abuse that do not have a substantial need for regulation and similarities to other otc medications that have significant intention of abuse that may require specific regulations. Therefore, it's also an invalid claim. Further, of course Plan-B is treated differently since it involves sexual reproduction, of which, should be discussed to address other intentions of abuse, and thus different approaches/strategies to address these abuses in comparison to other otc medications.


"To me, the fact that there are few restrictions on Plan-B is a good thing, a very good thing."

Additionally, less restriction for the sake of less restriction isn't a valid argument unless there is some sort of reasoning employed. Does the fact that fewer restrictions on a given substance necessarily mean it is good or that women will have more control over their reproductive health. As demonstrated, fewer restrictions allows for more abuses of which decrease control of reproductive health. I will ask yet again, how does allowing men easy accessibility with no ability to monitor purchases, increase a woman's ability to control reproductive health? I keep asking since the claims are unsubstantiated truisms with prepositions such as, "to me" or "in my opinion", yet there isn't a line of reasoning employed in order to bolster these opinions. This is not an attack on intelligence, it is simply getting from you proof of your work so to speak, in that I have your answers and conclusions, but I am not seeing how you are reaching the conclusions in a logical fashion. Thus, these questions help fill-in those logical gaps which will allow the conversation to become more productive.

Seems like a good idea to me. I don't think I need to elaborate any further.