Has Science made God irrelevant?

Actually, there is a religion of which science and religion do clash. Atheists are primarily scientifically driven whereas Christians are primarily driven on a belief of something that is not proven through evidence but through faith. There is a religion that I practice that falls just in between the spectrum of the two and a lot of people probably do not know. It's called Deism. A mixture of believing that something created the world, but also believing in science and that biblical stories or prophecies (such as with Christianity of how Jesus could preform miracles and be resurrected), are completely fake. That scientific laws can definitely prove that all of the stories are complete fallacies.

Science isn't necessarily taking religion away. But it is making new "religions". Science has improved logical reasoning and the ability for people to branch out into different beliefs with the simple question of "is this really real? Don't we need proof?"

The reason why Deism is much less spread than the bigheads of religion (Christianity, Muslim, Buddhism, etc.), is that there is no need to spread it. To be a Deist is up to you, and usually a common day Deist won't try to shove things down your throat.

The definition of Deism is a religion of which you believe there is a being that created all of the scientific laws and functions to make the universe work, however you do not believe that "God" intervenes with the world.

Deism is a religion that basically grew fame during Thomas Jefferson's presidency. He is a Deist and people often confused Deism with Aetheism, (which hurt his presidency in a small way). They are very similar, but that is not the case. If you are a Deism, you believe in evolution, scientific laws, and even theories we are unsure of, however you will believe that a being had to have created a starting kind of matter. The fact that "matter is neither created nor destroyed", we believe that matter cannot come from nothing. So, in some kind of different dimension or world (since our universe is so vast and infinite), there maybe be somewhere far out there that can bend those scientific laws and actually create matter. As a Deist, you believe almost everything an Atheist believes. Both advocate freethinking and reason. Both encourage individuality, and both know for a fact that all the hoopla that comes with revealed religion is a lie.
The only thing that's separating us is how we think everything was made. Atheists normally cite the big bang theory, and deists feel as if a being was responsible.

I am a Deist that believes our world was created by the means of something that we can't figure out yet. But, I feel that we will never know the real start to it all. So I call the being that created us a "God" so to speak. But, it is only a belief, and if science proves otherwise, surely I will be an Atheist.

I used to be a Christian for almost all of my life. I was raised in a family of Christianity. I went to Church every Sunday and on my on accounting, went to a Youth Group on Wednesday. I was even a leader of a lot of the church's activities and many of the youth looked up to me as a role model. But, I hated the irony of Christianity. That "God has a plan for you". My stepmother is the most Christian woman I know and she dealt with two miscarriages, her father dying, and her best friend committing suicide all in six months. And she prayed everyday. I soon believed Christianity became a safety blanket for people to feel as if everything is okay. God is not a miracle maker. I felt frustrated. People needed to face reality that kids are still dying in Africa of starvation and disease. Unfortunate children of young age are experiencing fatalities. People of innocence are not having a "God-living perfect plan".

My logical reasoning took over the best of me. I found myself every Sunday looking at the people in my church. Everyday, everyone looked broken. Like things just weren't adding up in their lives. All of these issues that haven't been fixed. Even divorces and continuous conflicts. Are these middle aged or old people that I see in church really living God's plan? Do I want to have this kind of life? Where everyday my life is consumed by worshiping a being that does not even reply to you? Or make things happen for you? This being that created us has no power to intervene with the entire world.

So I lived off the chain. Ever since I decided to become a Deist, I have had the best life ever. I have been tons more successful and grown so many special friendships and relationships. And my life is in the correct direction. It's in my direction. Not a direction that is dependent on some being that isn't directing. Being a Christian hurt me everyday. All of them made me feel as if I wasn't good enough of a Christian. That I didn't put enough time into God. That all my time should be forced upon someone I don't even know is real?

And that I should read and read upon text in the Bible, a book of which I believe are tales. I believe the Bible and the character Jesus were olden tales that were created to help explain the creation of the world, but also head everyone in a direction of good moral. But then people believed that being a follower of Jesus was a lot more than just liking the guy. It became focusing your entire life on it and on the Bible's tales. I have a strong belief that the Bible is fiction.

I am a religious person that thinks logically. And science is what made that happen for me. My life is great, I wouldn't ask for anymore than I have. I apologize for rambling and also being a little off-topic. But this is the first time I have ever been able to explain my true beliefs to anyone. I can't tell my parents until I feel it's right and I can't tell my friends or else they might tell more old church friends. And I believe as being an old role model of that church, I should not let any of them know what became of me. I had to let this out in a somewhat related topic.

(P.S. I also think anyone should have the freedom to practice any religion. I'm not telling anyone to stop practicing Christianity or Atheism. I am simply explaining my beliefs)

Well, I guess I should add my godless two cen-

R.F. said:

I think science is just another religion. But unlike religions like Catholicism which believe their god has always been there, science assumes that there's no god (if we don't count numbers as gods), which is why, in their opinion, one has to be created...by using science, of course.

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They call me Brandon Lee said:

oh man i know so many people who would be like "hurr durr i'm an atheist lelelel science >>> god lelelele" and i like to call those people fucking retarded

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twistedpuppy said:

THIS. Even if theistic religions were to go into extinction, the human race will always worship and revere something. In this age, science has become a new "god," and we've come to witness this since the industrial revolution in the nineteenth century.

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Uh oh, hold on, before I say anything meaningful, I need to make my goat sacrifice to Charles Darwin while eating the transubstantiation of Einstein's brain.


Now let me get something straight. Science is not some ultimate society of tenured white men. It's not the half-assed labs you did in high school, and it is certainly not some repressing, infidel-killing religion. It is a method of skepticism, questioning, and experiment that we use to support or revise our knowledge and theories about the observable universe, or maybe a few times a century to revamp it. We conclude it is a successful method because it has predictive power, and it has been constantly applied for creating technology and improving the human lifestyle.

As a dedicated student of science, and specifically physics, it is infuriating to me when science is called a "religion" or "God." For starters, hearing that doesn't make me want to shoot up cartoonists or anything. But it is certainly a reminder that people can have the dumbfounding illiteracy to call science exactly what it is not.

Yes, scientists have biases, and disciplines have some "dogma" of theory. But the best scientists will do their best to set aside their biases and think objectively. And a theory that has withstood a battery of experiment, and provided strong predictive power, deserves to be considered essentially factual because it has proven itself worthy of being the foundation for the work of possibly many generations of scientists.

And the best part about science? In the face of overwhelming evidence, even these "dogmatic" theories will be demoted and overthrown. These moments are literally revolutions. And they happen only with the technology and human ingenuity that comes by participating in science.

Evolution, gravitation, quantum physics, climate change... just some of the tenets of our day. Their details and applications can still change, and they have. But these theories gain power through merit. And, I think, all a reasonable scientist would ask is that people give these collections of human intellectual effort the respect they deserve. If not for the sake of knowing them, then for the sake of how they better our lives.


So fine, that's my defense of science. What about God and whatever that is "supernatural"? Such things and the like are not "beyond science," they're just not ideas that can be subject to experiment, basically by definition. And whether something that's not "scientific" is worth talking about is itself an unscientific question.

I am an atheist because I resort to the simplest explanation: "Miracles", bizarre and clear instances when a fundamental law of physics is suspended for some human purpose, have simply not been observed and studied, and this is lack of evidence of an interfering God. Furthermore, there would be no way to tell the difference between a universe without a God and one with a non-interfering (or discrete) one. Since a belief in a god-like entity, therefore, adds no predictive power, there is no compelling reason to accept it or even keep the question open.


This brings one now to religion. Although, like I said, God does not a valuable theory make in science, a person has the freedom to accept the belief as part of some spiritual fulfilment. That's fine. But if your religious dogma that withstands no tests or credibility is making its way into the way science is educated, a scientist's answer will be simple: "No."

God and the supernatural will remain as ideas of the human race, that's for sure. But I strongly believe that it would be best for mankind if the kind of God that condemns the "fruit of knowledge", demands the death of "heathens'", and sends perfectly good people to eternal damnation, were to become irrelevant, by people earning and appreciating an education in science, and the critical thinking and skepticism that comes with it. Find a way to fulfil your life. I need nothing more beyond science. Others can want a spirituality, or something else. But too many beliefs held today have this jealous God, and if we keep them it will hold our science back through policy. It is in this way that the relevance of one is at odds with the other.

'Relevance' is a hard term to use as the purpose of God will always be relevant, ie to be the central belief of most religions in some form, but in terms of the science vs religion debate I think it's simply a case of how open-minded you choose to be. I'm an agnostic Chemistry major bordering on atheist but I still feel that science and religion both have a place in the world - 'something' has to have set everything into motion and its hard to imagine that all of this has come from literally nothing, but at the same time I don't necessarily believe that this 'something' is a God or even anything sentient or 'alive'. A lot of the time it comes down to science saying 'how' something happens, with religion being a potential answer as to 'why' it happens... and until that 'why' is proven or disproven, religion is still a relevant potential answer. This does raise problems such as 'is there any point treating religion as an answer' given that we can't really make progress from that if it is, but an answer is an answer nonetheless.

This will be short and sweet.

If you mean relevancy in the most literal sense. Then no, it has not, because so many people put their belief into a God that it effects literally everyone else on the planet. Making it so that God, whether it exists or not, is unfortunately never irrelevant.

If you really want to find out if God is real? If it really matters that much? (It really doesn't in the long run, regardless of whteher you're a believer or not.)

Jump off a cliff and die.

That'll give you answer enough, just don't expect to be able to spread the good news if you were right. Other than the above method there's no other way to be certain however. Especially if you're an atheist like me and think that "full on religious experiences" where one "truly communes with and hears God" are more ascribed to insanity from constant self belief than anything else.

In the end the only reason people believe in anything is because they're sentient and they're absolutely petrified of there NOT being one, Religion itself is just the result of one massive existential crisis in my eyes. Non-sentient and semi-sentient beings don't have this problem at all because they are incapable of having panic attacks over being the result of coincidence in a Universe without the divine.

Do you think your pet dog believes in God? Well no, he doesn't, because he doesn't need to.

Don't get me wrong, you have every right to believe what you want for your own reasons. I won't stop or judge you for it. But from my perspective the entire notion of religion is a little bit sad.

If there were no god, it would have been necessary to invent him.

Well.
I have Science v Religion arguments with a good friend of mine often.
As long as there are people out there like him who believe science is fake and religion has all merit then no.
Science has not made god irrelevant.

I think relevant may have been a poor choice of terminology. Look at the Middle East; does God seem irrelevant?

Is there a need for religion in the modern age? I don't know if there's a need for it, but that doesn't mean it's meaningless. There are lessons to be learned in many works of fiction and most religious texts are packed full of such lessons. Most religions are just stories and lessons written a long time ago by people who thought they were important. Even atheists should read into the various popular religions. There's a reason so many people buy into them. Just don't take them as, well, the word of God. They're books of philosophy written by people and should be taken as such.

As far as people practicing religion, as long as they're not causing problems for others, I don't see the harm. Not everyone is cut out to be a lifetime philosopher. Religion has been a source of good for many people. If people are doing bad things in the name of religion, obviously that's something that needs to be dealt with, but I don't think there is anything wrong with religious worship in general as a form of basic philosophy for the masses.

Spinor said:

Uh oh, hold on, before I say anything meaningful, I need to make my goat sacrifice to Charles Darwin while eating the transubstantiation of Einstein's brain.

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Ha! Funny.

Spinor said:

Now let me get something straight. Science is not some ultimate society of tenured white men. It's not the half-assed labs you did in high school, and it is certainly not some repressing, infidel-killing religion. It is a method of skepticism, questioning, and experiment that we use to support or revise our knowledge and theories about the observable universe, or maybe a few times a century to revamp it. We conclude it is a successful method because it has predictive power, and it has been constantly applied for creating technology and improving the human lifestyle.

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Spot on! This is how science, in general terms, should be interpreted; but there's a problem, not everyone understands that basic principle.

Spinor said:

As a dedicated student of science, and specifically physics, it is infuriating to me when science is called a "religion" or "God." For starters, hearing that doesn't make me want to shoot up cartoonists or anything. But it is certainly a reminder that people can have the dumbfounding illiteracy to call science exactly what it is not.

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I hope you don't take offense to this (and if you do, I'm sincerely sorry), but I thought it was kind of funny: people have said similar things about religion as you have said about science.

"I believe in God, but I don't want to kill in His name. That's not what my religion is about."

Spinor said:

Yes, scientists have biases, and disciplines have some "dogma" of theory. But the best scientists will do their best to set aside their biases and think objectively. And a theory that has withstood a battery of experiment, and provided strong predictive power, deserves to be considered essentially factual because it has proven itself worthy of being the foundation for the work of possibly many generations of scientists.

And the best part about science? In the face of overwhelming evidence, even these "dogmatic" theories will be demoted and overthrown. These moments are literally revolutions. And they happen only with the technology and human ingenuity that comes by participating in science.

Evolution, gravitation, quantum physics, climate change... just some of the tenets of our day. Their details and applications can still change, and they have. But these theories gain power through merit. And, I think, all a reasonable scientist would ask is that people give these collections of human intellectual effort the respect they deserve. If not for the sake of knowing them, then for the sake of how they better our lives.

. . .

This brings one now to religion. Although, like I said, God does not a valuable theory make in science, a person has the freedom to accept the belief as part of some spiritual [fulfillment]. That's fine. But if your religious dogma that withstands no tests or credibility is making its way into the way science is educated, a scientist's answer will be simple: "No."

God and the supernatural will remain as ideas of the human race, that's for sure. But I strongly believe that it would be best for mankind if the kind of God that condemns the "fruit of knowledge", demands the death of "heathens'", and sends perfectly good people to eternal damnation, were to become irrelevant, by people earning and appreciating an education in science, and the critical thinking and skepticism that comes with it. Find a way to [fulfill] your life. I need nothing more beyond science. Others can want a spirituality, or something else. But too many beliefs held today have this jealous God, and if we keep them it will hold our science back through policy. It is in this way that the relevance of one is at odds with the other.

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You're absolutely correct about science not equating religion; however, people generally place their blind faith in this discipline without realizing that it is consistently correcting/improving upon itself. Some will look up to science as a "one-stop cure" for all of society's problems, and others will accept products of science without asking questions. And yes, scientific progress has gone through so many leaps and bounds in the past few centuries that various aspects of life have advanced thanks to these breakthroughs. But as you mentioned, someone (scientist or usually not) will formulate a "dogma" of theory that totally disregards the scientific method, all in the name of benefitting mankind. We've seen that exact kind of perverse thinking when eugenics was conceptualized. We can blame Darwin's half-cousin for that one. IRONY~ Yet, the "dogma" of eugenics would not have become so popular, if it wasn't in human nature to place blind faith in an authoritative figure or discipline. So, therein lies the problem. There are those of us who understand what purpose science or religion is intended to serve, but misuse its practices to create a "better" world. And then there are others who simply accept whatever authority tells them is true.

Science in itself is not religion, but science is treated the same as religion. Sad, but it's in our nature to do things like that.

as long as human kind seeks answers to unanswered questions, religion will continue to be relevant in our society regardless of how far science develops.

Uh, well...gotta believe in something right? haha.
Well, as long as there are still some questions science can't answer, religion will always be there waiting.

I believe God and science go together. I am a Christian and have been doing a bunch of research (still am). However, science is becoming a religion itself with its own "beliefs." I believe evolution does exist to a certain capacity. Micro evolution (variations within species) can be observed while macro evolution can not. I won't get into all of that for now haha.

Back to how science can be a religion. I forget the person, but she has a PhD and stuff and ill paraphrase her. If i can find who, ill send a link. "you have to have an imagination to believe evolution" -pro-evolution scientist. People put a lot of faith into these people and worships the science as a god- similar to idolatry.

Science is not 100% the lack of believe in a God, and it never has been. Men believing in God (or "religious" men) helped "create" science for lack of better words. Science is applied in many different ways...even if it proves the existence of God.

Kids have a built-in belief of an existence of a God, even when raised by atheist parents in an anti-God/Christianity world. Many of those 2 billion "Christians" may not even be Christians...just because one goes to church or celebrates Christmas does not make them Christian. Heck, even Christmas isn't even Christian!!! Christianity is the most persecuted "religion" in the world, and from its founding, has been severely persecuted. For these reasons, the faith is unfortunately dying out.

So is God relevant? He is overall relevant as he pretty much rules everything, but it is up to each individual person to make Him relevant in their life. The whole notion of a god, gods, or God is becoming increasingly irrelevant

The idea of God will always exist, so long as there is a gap in knowledge, as there will always be people who call that gap God. But I believe the advances in not only science, but in human development and rights as well, have made God unnecessary in Western society. To repeat Nietzche, but in a more cheerful manner: God is dead.

BadSheep said:

I believe God and science go together. I am a Christian and have been doing a bunch of research (still am). However, science is becoming a religion itself with its own "beliefs." I believe evolution does exist to a certain capacity. Micro evolution (variations within species) can be observed while macro evolution can not. I won't get into all of that for now haha.

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So macro evolution isn't true because you can't directly observe it over a short period of time? Have you observed World War II?

gimmepie said:

People put a lot of faith into these people and worships the science as a god- similar to idolatry.

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You can't put "faith" in science; we don't sacrifice goats to gravity or worship gluons. We use evidence, proofs, and ideas that are repeatable, testable, observable, and falsifiable. And unlike religion, which claims an absolute truth, science improves itself, searching for knowledge while correcting mistakes and miscalculations scientists have made over time.

gimmepie said:

Science is not 100% the lack of believe in a God, and it never has been. Men believing in God (or "religious" men) helped "create" science for lack of better words. Science is applied in many different ways...even if it proves the existence of God.

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well guess what, it doesn't.

gimmepie said:

Kids have a built-in belief of an existence of a God, even when raised by atheist parents in an anti-God/Christianity world. Many of those 2 billion "Christians" may not even be Christians...just because one goes to church or celebrates Christmas does not make them Christian. Heck, even Christmas isn't even Christian!!!

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You have much basis to say this as I have basis to say that kids are hard-wired to not believe in God, even when raises by Christian parents in an anti-atheist world. Seriously, stop making claims you can't prove.

You raise the no true Scotsman fallacy. You can't just assert whether a Christian is a true Christian or not.

gimmepie said:

Christianity is the most persecuted "religion" in the world, and from its founding, has been severely persecuted. For these reasons, the faith is unfortunately dying out.

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You're kidding, right?

Look at america. Do you think a Jew, a Muslim, or a Hindu would have as much chance to run for candidacy as a Christian? No. Hell, atheists are even banned from holding office in several states.

Do you see Christians being routinely hunt down and exterminated on the same level as the Yazidis and Zoroastraians? No.

Does Christianity have any counterpart to Islamophobia? Are people rallying in the streets of Europe to drag Christians out of their homes and temples and kick them out? No, but this is happening to Muslims.

And by "unfortunately dying out", do you mean a growth of 25,210,000 adherents every year? Yes, I feel so sorry for Christianity.

1. I dont have the time to explain all of the proof, so I said one quick thing. Macro evolution is impossible because DNA cannot change- you cannot gain DNA. There are mutations, but most mutations are harmful as seen by the bee experiment. It would be impossible for this one mutation to spread to a whole species because it might not if pass on to the children!

WWII was observed by others and recorded. We can see the effects even today. We know that was real for those reasons.

2. You trust scientists to come up with the correct answers and put a lot of trust in how the earth came from a 1 in trillions chance of occurring from the big bang.

3. Creationists use science everyday to prove the existence of God and the validity of the Bible. When one comes out with a book...scientists ridicule them for their beliefs because the science is right! We are looking at the same proof here, it is how most logically it can be interpreted.

4. I can tell a story if you want to hear it, but I can not find an article on it because my mom told me about it a while ago. I found another source a while ago, but again, can not find it. Sorry. :/

5. Ancient Rome. Christians were killed and persecuted since the founding. We had other religious groups against us such as the Pharisees and Sadducees. Rome hated us until some emperors ended the persecution (Edict of Milan). Now, Christians are persecuted.

https://www.opendoorsusa.org/christian-persecution/

+many more sources. In addition, it is predicted in the Bible that the world will become anti-God, which it is. Pop culture is horribly satanic, as well as other forms of culture. Just research and you will find many reasons why I am so cynical and why culture today is (and becoming) anti-Christian.

The Void said:

-Snip-

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Why exactly do those quotes have me as the poster? I've never even posted in this thread until now.

I'm going to come right out and say that science is slowly rendering God obsolete, but that's not to say that God is irrelevant due to science. I'm going to elaborate on this:

Science is progressing faster than ever before, with new theories appearing by the minute, and old long-speculated theories being proven correct. Whilst this is great for development and progression towards the future, it provides a very great and serious problem for religion. That is, that religious theories and ideas are being disproven by the answers science is able to provide. Religion can't give answers, because there is no evidence or basis for any of it's claims. On an argumentative, factual level religion has no grounds due to it's lack of solid ideals, concepts or evidence. Science is very quickly answering all of the questions that religion only theorises about.

But for us as humans, or at least some of us, religion will always be relevant. From being the reason someone gets up in the morning, to reforming a convicted criminal, religion definitely has a place in society, one that helps and supports those who believe. Furthermore, religion can bring people together to create societies that science just cannot do. Sure, science can give you the facts and a topic to talk about once in a while, but religion brings people together and unites them on a level unachievable by anything else.

I'm going to take a quick break here by informing you at this stage that I myself am not religious, not even am I an Atheist, since that in itself is a belief. A belief that there is no God.

I'm now going to discuss when religion and science can become irrelevant, or perhaps, obsolete in one's direction. Whilst I have said that both science and religion can, and should, be relevant to us as a developing species, there are times when they should also not be relevant.

One can believe in the answers science believes fully and completely, and that is fine. But the problems that arise with following science, and the same in a way applies to religion, is that when you follow science too blindly you become ignorant of the flaws within the system. And that is not good. To completely disregard the flaws science has means that you no longer care about the answers science gives you, or how those answers came about, which in turn causes science to become irrelevant. This can be seen a lot in arguments between someone avidly pious and someone who decrees that science is the absolute truth. Absolutely not. The Scientific Method is, in its very nature, biased and flawed. The system was created by humans and as such, is subject to bias and political influence, regardless of how objective it was designed to be. And as such, the answers science gives cannot, under any circumstance, be trusted to be correct 100%. 99.9999999999...% maybe, but never ever 100%.

Onto religion, and a similar problem arises; when one believes that religion is the answer above all else. That becomes a problem due to religions very concept: faith. Those who claim that religion is the answer above all else have lost sight of the fact that religion is based on no hard facts whatsoever, and don't even take the time to consider the counter arguments to their own statements. Religion when used as an answer to a question during an argument faces many problems that question its credibility, accuracy and reliability. I'm not going to go into these problems now, as each one raises an entirely new debate, which would take us off topic. However these problems need to be addressed by religion in a coherent, decisive way before it can be used as proof or evidence for any kind of factual question; and that is something that it will never, ever be able to do due to its core foundation and idea: faith.



My last point. Those who deny the creation of the Earth or Evolution due to some creationism in the Bible being more believable and evidential; stop. There is a TON of proof for Macro-Evolution and the Big Bang, and many more theories equally supportive. Creationism is NOT a counter-argument for either of these theories, since there are no references or proof given in the Bible to support the claims the Bible makes. That is also certainly not an argument to be held here on PC, where the whole concept of the game Pokémon is evolution. If you deny The Theory of Evolution due to Creationism, then do the same to Pokémon, otherwise that in itself is hypocritical, and ends your argument there. Just stop.

EDIT: I would also like to take the time to say that claiming children have an "in-built belief in God" is just wrong. Children do not have an in-built belief in anything. Children are blank slates, open to new ideas and concepts, and are also open and free to choose whatever direction they want. Religion is NOT some natural instinct to humans, and never will be. It is a belief, formed over years of experience and will always be just that. Nothing more, nothing less.

EDIT2: @BadSheep Christianity is definitely NOT the most persecuted religion in the world, by far. Excuse me? Let's take a look at the Crusades, a documented event in history. How many Jews were killed by Christians because the latter wanted to control the homeland of the Jews, the "Holy Land"? And let's take another step forward to the early 1900s, where Hitler ordered the murder of over 6 MILLION Jews. Excuse me? Christianity is definitely not the MOST persecuted, and CERTAINLY is not dying out.

BadSheep said:

1. I dont have the time to explain all of the proof, so I said one quick thing. Macro evolution is impossible because DNA cannot change- you cannot gain DNA. There are mutations, but most mutations are harmful as seen by the bee experiment. It would be impossible for this one mutation to spread to a whole species because it might not if pass on to the children!

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macroevolution is essentially a bunch of microevolutions that happen over time. to say that microevolution exists but macroevolution doesn't is nonsense.

WWII was observed by others and recorded. We can see the effects even today. We know that was real for those reasons.

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evolution has been recorded, too.

2. You trust scientists to come up with the correct answers and put a lot of trust in how the earth came from a 1 in trillions chance of occurring from the big bang.

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there are trillions of stars and planets on the universe so yes. 1 in a trillion chance can happen.

3. Creationists use science everyday to prove the existence of God and the validity of the Bible. When one comes out with a book...scientists ridicule them for their beliefs because the science is right! We are looking at the same proof here, it is how most logically it can be interpreted.

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science is "right" because it works. what are the alternatives, faith healing?

5. Ancient Rome. Christians were killed and persecuted since the founding. We had other religious groups against us such as the Pharisees and Sadducees. Rome hated us until some emperors ended the persecution (Edict of Milan). Now, Christians are persecuted.

https://www.opendoorsusa.org/christian-persecution/

+many more sources. In addition, it is predicted in the Bible that the world will become anti-God, which it is. Pop culture is horribly satanic, as well as other forms of culture. Just research and you will find many reasons why I am so cynical and why culture today is (and becoming) anti-Christian.

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yup, christianity was a widely persecuted religion... almost 2 millenia ago in its inception, certainly not relevant to today's statistics where christianity is the most followed religion in the world.

sure, there are few christians that are persecuted today, but you really can't use that as a sweeping generalizing "proof" that christianity is being persecuted today, because their numbers are minute in the christian denomination.

Aeroblast said:

macroevolution is essentially a bunch of microevolutions that happen over time. to say that microevolution exists but macroevolution doesn't is nonsense.


evolution has been recorded, too.


there are trillions of stars and planets on the universe so yes. 1 in a trillion chance can happen.


science is "right" because it works. what are the alternatives, faith healing?


yup, christianity was a widely persecuted religion... almost 2 millenia ago in its inception, certainly not relevant to today's statistics where christianity is the most followed religion in the world.

sure, there are few christians that are persecuted today, but you really can't use that as a sweeping generalizing "proof" that christianity is being persecuted today, because their numbers are minute in the christian denomination.

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When and who recorded evolution?

Macro evolution is impossible because DNA can not change. Recently, scientists have discovered junk DNA (leftovers from evolution)- i mean the lack of it in human DNA. Evolutionists claim for 80% junk DNA at least and some even more for evolution to occur. Except we are confirmed 99% free of junk DNA and are discovering that we may not have any! And the fact that we have "common" DNA with monkeys and other wildlife is proof of a common designer- not evolution. For example, we share 50% DNA with bananas. You have to be crazy to think we came from bananas or vice-versa. Again, common designer.

Edit:

Christians are definitely not persecuted...

https://www.facebook.com/notes/brya...is-the-most-persecuted-religi/572617796143518

BadSheep said:

When and who recorded evolution?

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first of all there are peppered moths.

Edit:

Christians are definitely not persecuted...

https://www.facebook.com/notes/brya...is-the-most-persecuted-religi/572617796143518

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one source says one christian is killed per 11 minutes, other says 322 are killed every month... so now the numbers from your sources don't even add up.

instead of blindly blaming "christian persecution" for people abandoning christianity in the modern world, you might want to think critically as to why people are starting to abandon it.

Aeroblast said:

first of all there are peppered moths.


one source says one christian is killed per 11 minutes, other says 322 are killed every month... so now the numbers from your sources don't even add up.

instead of blindly blaming "christian persecution" for people abandoning christianity in the modern world, you might want to think critically as to why people are starting to abandon it.

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I realize that...I need to check in more on the number. Maybe the 322 killed every month is in a certain place or something.

People are abandoning it and it is predicted.

1 Corinthians 15:33- Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

Isiah 5:20- Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Some verses of persecution begin predicted:

http://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Persecution-Predicted

Ok, so Christians are predicted to be in great persecution, and especially prior to the tribulation period. I believe it is coming up in the next 20-100 years, but no one knows the day or hour as said in the Bible. Sin gets worse and worse, and as many people put it, we are living in a modern day Sodom and Gemora. Culture today is becoming more and more satanic and very anti-Christian. Heck, most people think I am an idiot when they themselves are the sheeple (no offense to any classmates of mine). People need to open their eyes! Revelations 20:4 predicts Christians will be beheaded...which raises the question- why has the US bought 30,000 guillotines?!

Found some more sources on the amount of christians persecuted:

https://www.worldwatchmonitor.org/2013/11/article_2859955.html/

http://www.independentsentinel.com/us-silent-as-one-christian-is-killed-every-11-minutes-somewhere/

https://mediachecker.wordpress.com/...s-killed-every-11-minutes-uk-parliament-told/

I found some with 1 christian killed every 5 minutes, but those seem to be much fewer than the 11 minutes.

BadSheep said:

When and who recorded evolution?

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Darwin

BadSheep said:

Macro evolution is impossible because DNA can not change. Recently, scientists have discovered junk DNA (leftovers from evolution)- i mean the lack of it in human DNA. Evolutionists claim for 80% junk DNA at least and some even more for evolution to occur. Except we are confirmed 99% free of junk DNA and are discovering that we may not have any! And the fact that we have "common" DNA with monkeys and other wildlife is proof of a common designer- not evolution. For example, we share 50% DNA with bananas. You have to be crazy to think we came from bananas or vice-versa. Again, common designer.

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Straw man argument.

There is no study or journal that "confirms" we are 99% free of junk DNA. Though if there is one, I'd like you to cite a scientific paper or article saying so (NOT a Christian apologist website). In fact you should always cite a source when claiming/establishing a scientific model or fact in a debate.

No one is saying we come from bananas lol. We don't determine evolution based purely on how much DNA two species share (we share 80% DNA with cows).

We don't even come from monkeys! Again, common ancestor.

BadSheep said:

I realize that...I need to check in more on the number. Maybe the 322 killed every month is in a certain place or something.

People are abandoning it and it is predicted.

1 Corinthians 15:33- Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

Isiah 5:20- Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Click to expand...

This isn't a debate between two Christians: stop quoting the Bible until you've established its validity as anything more than a thousand-year old piece of literature, or until you prove that it is any more factually true than the Torah, the Qu'ran, the Vedas, the Zend Avesta, the Vinaya, Nostradamus, or the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

BadSheep said:

Some verses of persecution begin predicted:

http://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Persecution-Predicted

Ok, so Christians are predicted to be in great persecution, and especially prior to the tribulation period. I believe it is coming up in the next 20-100 years, but no one knows the day or hour as said in the Bible. Sin gets worse and worse, and as many people put it, we are living in a modern day Sodom and Gemora. Culture today is becoming more and more satanic and very anti-Christian. Heck, most people think I am an idiot when they themselves are the sheeple (no offense to any classmates of mine). People need to open their eyes! Revelations 20:4 predicts Christians will be beheaded...which raises the question- why has the US bought 30,000 guillotines?!

Click to expand...

The US hasn't, it's been debunked as a myth by snopes: http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/guillotines.asp

BadSheep said:

Found some more sources on the amount of christians persecuted:

https://www.worldwatchmonitor.org/2013/11/article_2859955.html/

http://www.independentsentinel.com/us-silent-as-one-christian-is-killed-every-11-minutes-somewhere/

https://mediachecker.wordpress.com/...s-killed-every-11-minutes-uk-parliament-told/

I found some with 1 christian killed every 5 minutes, but those seem to be much fewer than the 11 minutes.

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MPs lie. A lot. It's their job.

Besides, none of your articles have sourced any statistics or surveys that show Christians are the most persecuted group in the world, a bold claim to make, considering that there are South American tribes, Armenians, and Yazidis that are on the brink of extinction.

Furthermore, 107 people die every minute. I wouldn't be surprised if one of the 107 was a Christian, seeing as they are 2 billion strong, as you so like to boast. Take a random person from America and cut his throat, and he's most likely to be a Christian. This doesn't mean that he was killed because he was Christian.

Now it is true that there are Christians that are being killed every day for being Christian, but most of these killings happen where they are the extremely small minority, such as the Middle East, where extremist groups such as ISIS are present. Christian "persecution" today is nowhere near the extent Muslims and Jews are being persecuted today.