[Spoilers] Pokémon XY & Z Speculation

janejane6178 said:

Ok so in just a few episodes Ash is not only going to catch a fully evolved Abomasnow but also mega evolve it ? Seems legit.

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It happened with iris so why not. :p

Honestly , I don't think Ash-Greninja will be very interesting.
Unless , Ash's eye glow and his mind become sync with Greninja causing them to use OP attack like--

---Creating Multiple blade of Water in the Air and shoot them toward his Opponent.

---Cover his surrounding with Water and use it to protect himself or attack

---Move Lighting Fast

---Create a giant blade of Water.

---Store power in his Ice spike on his back and use it to fly

---Create Multiple giant Sphere /Rasengun.

---Create his own "Susanoo" from Water.

---Defeating a mega Legendary like Yveltal.

Only Then Ash-Greninja would be interesting.
But Pokemon never does OP thing like that , That why all pokemon series become boring.

PVT.Sceptile said:

It happened with iris so why not. :p

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And everyone hates Iris for it !

Famon said:

But Pokemon never does OP thing like that , That why all pokemon series become boring. !

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Yes, i just don't get it why is pokemon different than other animes. sure it's a children show, but come on even digimon didn't get that boring with it's plots. let's just hope the new series is gonna be an improvement, not that XY isn't after the failure that was bw, no, but in plot improvement.

PVT.Sceptile said:

Yes, i just don't get it why is pokemon different than other animes. sure it's a children show, but come on even digimon didn't get that boring with it's plots. let's just hope the new series is gonna be an improvement, not that XY isn't after the failure that was bw, no, but in plot improvement.

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Okay lets imagine a scenario Where Ash is the strongest trainer in the world yet for some reason most character look down up him and consider him weak until they see his skill themselves.
Does Pokemon seem exciting now ?

*Pretty much like One-Punch-Man where The Protagonist is the strongest hero that beat every villain with 1 punch but still consider to be a mare B-Rank hero for some technicality.

PVT.Sceptile said:

Yes, i just don't get it why is pokemon different than other animes. sure it's a children show, but come on even digimon didn't get that boring with it's plots. let's just hope the new series is gonna be an improvement, not that XY isn't after the failure that was bw, no, but in plot improvement.

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Digimon and Pokemon are different types of shows and, really, aren't similar in many ways.

But to put it simply, Digimon is a plot-focused show where story comes first, characters second, and everything else after that, and it's aimed at a slightly older audience then Pokemon. Pokemon, on the other hand, is a Saturday Morning-styled show generally filled with situations that don't necessarily tie-in to the plot at large, and similarly the plot takes a backseat to the adventure at hand. Kinda like a Sitcom, but where in place of Comedy it's Action or Adventure.

Famon said:

Okay lets imagine a scenario Where Ash is the strongest trainer in the world yet for some reason most character look down up him and consider him weak until they see his skill themselves.
Does Pokemon seem exciting now ?

*Pretty much like One-Punch-Man where The Protagonist is the strongest hero that beat every villain with 1 punch but still consider to be a mare B-Rank hero for some technicality.

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In my opinion Yes it is an improvement than the normal collect badges,help people, lose the league and repeat.
so yeah something like going for proving your skill by for example defeating an elite four.
*orange islands has never been brought up in the anime after it's arc and the frontier brains was only brought up to shock paul that ash did something impressive.

machomuu:8937530 said:

Digimon and Pokemon are different types of shows and, really, aren't similar in many ways.

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i know i just needed an anime for children close to pokemon. And digimon for me fit the bill.

PVT.Sceptile said:

Yes, i just don't get it why is pokemon different than other animes. sure it's a children show, but come on even digimon didn't get that boring with it's plots. let's just hope the new series is gonna be an improvement, not that XY isn't after the failure that was bw, no, but in plot improvement.

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I know BW wasn't perfect but it wasn't a failure, XY isn't perfect either but atleast they are trying to bring back the Original series charm. I do hope this new Z anime will improve the show a whole lot.


That Mega Scepitle in that new Z anime poster does not look anything like Ash's Sceptile, i do think that Sceptile in the poster could be Sawyer's because Ash's Sceptile always carry a twig, and i highly doubt that the Sceptile is really Ash's in that poster.

machomuu said:

Digimon and Pokemon are different types of shows and, really, aren't similar in many ways.

But to put it simply, Digimon is a plot-focused show where story comes first, characters second, and everything else after that, and it's aimed at a slightly older audience then Pokemon. Pokemon, on the other hand, is a Saturday Morning-styled show generally filled with situations that don't necessarily tie-in to the plot at large, and similarly the plot takes a backseat to the adventure at hand. Kinda like a Sitcom, but where in place of Comedy it's Action or Adventure.

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Actually , Pokemon & Digimon aim toward the same audience
Pokemon is a Game based Anime that aimed toward Promoting the game So the target audience would be anyone who will buy the game & Kids who know to READ .
Pokemon & Digimon are both in same category as a Kodomono anime.

As for Sitcom , You may notice one most important thing-
The Main Cast of a Sitcom always remain the same! They never get replaced and change.
For example : Doreamon.
The Cast of Doreamon never changed at all ! It remain the same with Nobita , Doreamon , Shizuka , Suneno and Gian.
Also Gintama , The main cast remain the same with Gintoki , Kagura and Shinpachi .
And You should agree that the Cast of Gintama should remain the same! How will you feel about Kagura & Shinpachi get replace by some new character while those 2 leave the show or dies ?
But , The main cast of Pokemon changes with every series ! Ash , Pikachu and Team Rocket are the only original character left while Misty & Brock are totally disappeared from the anime.
Not only that , Characters from "Timeless anime" never change their personality ! Their personality never develops or improves .
However Ash personality changed a lot from original series ! Even AG Misty's personality is totally different then Original Misty.
Most fans claim that Misty become more develop and mature ! Thats the main problem with it.
You see , The more A character mature , The less funny he/she becomes!
That's why Characters from Doreamon ,The Simpsons and Cryone Shin-chan remain the same.
Most anime has a "Ending" So they doesn't have any problem with Character developing but "Timeless Anime" survive on Humor and Comedy so they can't afford any character changing .
Also , Characters of "Timeless Anime" doesn't have any goal to achieve Unlike Ash who trying to win a League.
Thats why nobody can't tolerate Stupid filler because Fans want more episode that focus on Ash & the League.
Thats why everyone hated "Decolra Journey" ! However if this arc take place after Ash won a League then nobody would complain about it.
Thats Why Pokemon became Boring ! Its doesn't following any specific Plotline or doesn't have any laughable humor & Comedy . The Animator need to accept that Pokemon need to follow a specific Plotline rather then relying on unfunny humor.
FYI : I watched Gintama So don't try to say Pokemon has same humor as Gintama ! You should watch 20 episode of Pokemon XY before claiming it.

Famon said:

Actually , Pokemon & Digimon aim toward the same audience
Pokemon is a Game based Anime that aimed toward Promoting the game So the target audience would be anyone who will buy the game & Kids who know to READ .
Pokemon & Digimon are both in same category as a Kodomono anime.

As for Sitcom , You may notice one most important thing-
The Main Cast of a Sitcom always remain the same! They never get replaced and change.
For example : Doreamon.
The Cast of Doreamon never changed at all ! It remain the same with Nobita , Doreamon , Shizuka , Suneno and Gian.
Also Gintama , The main cast remain the same with Gintoki , Kagura and Shinpachi .
And You should agree that the Cast of Gintama should remain the same! How will you feel about Kagura & Shinpachi get replace by some new character while those 2 leave the show or dies ?
But , The main cast of Pokemon changes with every series ! Ash , Pikachu and Team Rocket are the only original character left while Misty & Brock are totally disappeared from the anime.
Not only that , Characters from "Timeless anime" never change their personality ! Their personality never develops or improves .
However Ash personality changed a lot from original series ! Even AG Misty's personality is totally different then Original Misty.
Most fans claim that Misty become more develop and mature ! Thats the main problem with it.
You see , The more A character mature , The less funny he/she becomes!
That's why Characters from Doreamon ,The Simpsons and Cryone Shin-chan remain the same.
Most anime has a "Ending" So they doesn't have any problem with Character developing but "Timeless Anime" survive on Humor and Comedy so they can't afford any character changing .
Also , Characters of "Timeless Anime" doesn't have any goal to achieve Unlike Ash who trying to win a League.
Thats why nobody can't tolerate Stupid filler because Fans want more episode that focus on Ash & the League.
Thats why everyone hated "Decolra Journey" ! However if this arc take place after Ash won a League then nobody would complain about it.
Thats Why Pokemon became Boring ! Its doesn't following any specific Plotline or doesn't have any laughable humor & Comedy . The Animator need to accept that Pokemon need to follow a specific Plotline rather then relying on unfunny humor.
FYI : I watched Gintama So don't try to say Pokemon has same humor as Gintama ! You should watch 20 episode of Pokemon XY before claiming it.

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Oh man, Famon, you don't know how many words I have for this. And I really would love to chomp into it but that's not the topic here, so I'll just bullet:

• That's not quite how audiences work and they reach out to similar audiences, but slightly different age groups.
• I wouldn't dream of saying Pokemon had the same comedy as Gintama. If it did, though, I'd watch the hell out of it.

Also, sitcom casts do change and get replaced. Quite often, actually.

But as far as Pokemon- or any show goes, maturity doesn't staunch humor. Misty wasn't less interesting because she became more mature, she was less interesting because she was relegated to a side role. Most temporary characters in Pokemon are like this since they basically become "characters of the day". The Office in particular is the perfect example of how maturity can be used to breed comedy. It's not what they are, it's how you use them.

machomuu said:

Oh man, Famon, you don't know how many words I have for this. And I really would love to chomp into it but that's not the topic here, so I'll just bullet:

• That's not quite how audiences work and they reach out to similar audiences, but slightly different age groups.

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Ya , Basically You claiming Pokemon aims toward the Same Age Groups as Doreamon & Dragon Tales.
However , Pokemon aim same age group as Digimon , Bakugun and Beyblade.
Pokemon is basically Shounen for Kids !!
As you know , Kids Anime has different category and Pokemon is in 3rd category where the Anime is written in a Shounen style.
I mean , Why do you think everyone make pun about Ash not growing ?
There are a lot of Anime character who doesn't age even after celebrating 2 Birthdays . Nobody make pun about them.
Its because Pokemon is the type of Anime where fans expect The Characters to grow.

The main reason Pokemon anime rating is dropping because it doesn't following any Specific plotline.
Furthermore , Its doesn't has any Humor at all .

I wouldn't dream of saying Pokemon had the same comedy as Gintama. If it did, though, I'd watch the hell out of it.

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Really ? Because I remember clearly that you yourself claim Pokemon is like Gintama in level of humor & Adventure.

Also, sitcom casts do change and get replaced. Quite often, actually.

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Are You talking about "Two & half man" ???
Because if I remember , The show didn't last long after Charlie dies ! The show tried various way to make up for Charlie & Jake but it didn't work out and it finally end in a shitty way.
Or You talking about "One Tree hill" ? Thats not a Comedy sitcom.
The sitcom that I watch such as "Big Bang Theory" , "HIMYL" , "Friends" etc never really changed its cast.
But again , Those sitcom aren't Anime and has a Ending !

If we talk about Anime sitcom for kids like Doreamon , Cryon Shinchan , Dragon Tales then those series never replace its cast with another.

But as far as Pokemon- or any show goes, maturity doesn't staunch humor. Misty wasn't less interesting because she became more mature, she was less interesting because she was relegated to a side role. Most temporary characters in Pokemon are like this since they basically become "characters of the day". The Office in particular is the perfect example of how maturity can be used to breed comedy. It's not what they are, it's how you use them.

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Oh please , Misty & Brock were always at the side role ! Its was their interesting personality that gave them the spotlight.
Truth is , AG Misty was so nice and Polite that she didn't felt like the real Misty ! I remember and love this Misty--


Imagine Otae (Gintama) become completely Nice and stop beating up people to show Maturity! I wonder how many will love the Nice version of Otae.
After all , Otae's mixer of nice polite lady with short temper make her unique.

Famon said:

But , The main cast of Pokemon changes with every series ! Ash , Pikachu and Team Rocket are the only original character left while Misty & Brock are totally disappeared from the anime.
Not only that , Characters from "Timeless anime" never change their personality ! Their personality never develops or improves .

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I think constant cast replacing did more harm than good long term.
If anything by replacing so often main characters you killed chances of having stable cast in who people could invest emotionally wanting to follow their growth and see where will work and journey take them being used to full potential.
Continuity became nonexistant duer to constant soft resets happrening with Ash abandoning all past pokemon and previous friends who are almost never brought up ending forgotten. As well being killed any chance of having consistent, plot driven story which evolves and changes over long period of time thanks to revamps.

Reflecting negatively on Ash development and journey as well. Because of lacking stability in cast, continuity in form of another familiar face through which people could relate and associate anime with along with having on going plot which keep its bounds with previous sagas adding to credibility and amount of growth characters experienced until now.
In other words lacking characters whose history spent with Ash, past experiences, development and close friendship would be carried over to new generations allowing for consistent following , more compact plot and establish of loyalty among fans preserving show popularity.

Show with stable cast and strong continuity creates brand around themselves and loyal viewers , while at same time attracting new fans toward it becoming interested in characters and storyline who still didn't went into it.
Something pokemon doesn't do, but other long lived shows such as One Piece, Dragon Ball, Fairy Tail, even Digimon in not forgetting about its roots and past actually does.

However Ash personality changed a lot from original series ! Even AG Misty's personality is totally different then Original Misty.
Most fans claim that Misty become more develop and mature ! Thats the main problem with it.
You see , The more A character mature , The less funny he/she becomes!

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Mature characters can be just as fun as immature ones. Misty matured in some aspects as result of character development, but does that mean she is collected and rationale over everything?
Not really.

If there was any reason for you finding Misty less interesting than before, problem wasn't her personality and behavior. But circumstances and situations in which she was written not interacting with enough memorable characters to allow her persona traits to come to expression. Lack of screentime dedicated to Misty in episodes or lack of attention on her goals, dreams and interests to shine in her own light.

If there was anything in what Misty changed was that she became less violent.
But was that bad thing?

I wouldn't say, because in Hoenn we saw Misty portrayed as smart, resourceful and strong young female.
Being much more confident and independent, real badass in battling(especially when shocking everyone with that Gyarados)while showing lot of that sassy, defiant attituide being tough and taking things on her own when scolding Daisy and taking care of Max. Along with more of her feminine charm and playful, quirky side when asked for date, going crazy over bugs and embarassing herself with Psyduck bringing herself in trouble due to being at times impatient.Acting like someone in early teens being more selfcritic and responsible mixed with sarcastic, fiery demeanor in defiant kinda way.
Still being enjoyable and fun in different way.

Famon said:

Oh please , Misty & Brock were always at the side role ! Its was their interesting personality that gave them the spotlight.
Truth is , AG Misty was so nice and Polite that she didn't felt like the real Misty ! I remember and love this Misty--

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"Because Misty in AG wasn't irritated by Brock firting coming up with sarcastic remarks and pulling him by ear."
"She wasn't mad at Ash for acting rude snatching invitation to festival from her or didn't scold him over embarassing himself infront of King."
"We didn't saw Misty playfully teasing Ash about his skills as trainer or resourcefulness with Ash reciprocating back.
"Because we didn't saw Misty in AG being angry at colonel Hanson yelling and acting all fiery and brash."
"Being upset and frustrated over Daisy rushing her back home."
"Found bugs disgusting as always causing that she and Max fall of the cliff running panickly away."
Etc, etc.

Oh wait. We did.

Now i know some wanted to see Misty getting in catfight with May. Or slap around Max like rattle. (I didn't).

But reason why there wasn't any hostility or tension is due to Misty not having reason to be snarky, explode or be intrusive toward most characters there. With May actually admiring Misty and how tough, fiery and competent she was. Max being friendly and admiring, Brock not doing anything excessive and eccentric in haf of episodes for which Misty returned in Hoenn etc.

As well purpose of plot calling for something else. Such as in Max case with Misty serving role as bigger sister, role model to him. Helping him to reconcile with May fixing their brother-sister relationship. Showing through her own example how to stay cool and tolerant in some situations not losing head(with Max complimenting on how manageable and brave she is) and teach him valuable lesson about family relationships and their importance.

Being for that reason more calm than let say in Togepi episodes for example or chronicles. It was actually appreciating to see other sides of Misty character showed and how compassionate and responsible she can be as well complimenting nicely her more temperament, arrogant side. More sides and traits someone has to its personality; deeper and more nuanced he is.

Misty acted completely in character there still having her charm, fire and quirky nature.
But whether someone will "show its teeth"(metaphorically speaking)and be incondsiderate, agitated also depends on:
-storyline and plot circumstancdes
-other characters which surround you and if they will give incentive, reason through their actions for such behavior.

This determines everything as far as dynamic and interaction between characters in story goes.

NOTE: I have not watched the anime since they were back in Kanto. I know next to nothing concerning specifics about the show, including characters, plotlines and differences between the anime and the games. If I put my foot in my mouth and say something inaccurate, I'm really sorry.

Now, with that out of the way the main things I DO know about the anime are as follows: A, Ash and his Pikachu never really seem to make much progress. Ash to my knowledge has never beat a Pokemon League that does appear in the main games, and Pikachu for some reason keeps getting his level reset. That dang thing should be near the level cap by now but seems to keep reverting to being low leveled. And B, Ash and Pikachu are about the only characters that remain constant throughout the entire story. There's always companions he travels with and Pokemon he catches that stay with him until it's time to go to the next region and then seem to vanish off the face of the earth, leaving our heroes to start over with a new set of companions and new Pokemon that again will inevitably disappear once the new generation starts beginning the cycle anew.

I'm really not an expert on the anime and am really more of an outsider concerning the subject. But even I can tell that's gonna get stale after a while. A vital component to a good story is caracter development. Static characters get boring after a while because even as the story progresses their reactions and actions remain the same. Ash and Pikachu never seem to get anywhere, and never seem to get any stronger, at least not permanently. Naturally that's going to get boring because he can't realistically stay the same forever. After going through several regions you wouldn't expect him to still be at around the same skill level as when he started, and yet that's what seems to happen over and over again. Resetting your character only works so many times; after the fourth or fifth time it just gets monotonous.

Concerning the roster of characters and Pokemon that constantly shift around, that I can expect at least a little bit. If you're traveling and you're NOT trying to save the world (or heck even if you are,) you can expect some characters to leave and some others to come in and take their places. They're not always going to be able to come with you, and it's refreshing to see new characters and watch them develop over time. And I can see getting and training new Pokemon as well. It's a brand new region after all; why wouldn't you? The issue comes from the fact that any and all character development is completely nil because once Ash leaves the region, they're all for the most part replaced with other characters that replace the roles the older characters had. Again I haven't really watched the anime in a really long time so I can't give you specific characters or roles, but again it gets monotonous when you have characters doing more or less the same things as the others used to do and their dynamic with the hero stays the same, and it sucks when the older characters just vanish and we never see what becomes of them. Did those guys ever accomplish what they wanted? Did they succeed in chasing their dreams? Welp you'll never know, because they're not going to follow Ash any further and we're probably never going to see them again. Same deal with the Pokemon for the most part.

That constant lack of character development and systematic roster replacement makes for a really boring show. Why bother getting invested if things aren't going to change and everything is going to reset as soon as Gen VII comes out? I don't really have a lot of room to critique since I'm not that knowledgeable of the anime, but even if there is no real story it doesn't mean things have to reset constantly. Azumanga Daioh didn't have a story either, but it had enough character development to keep you hooked. The characters matured as time went on, and we got to learn extensively about them. If Pokemon had that going for it it might make the show better overall.

But eh, I'm not that knowledgeable about the show so you should probably take my opinions with a bit of salt.

Can someone Translate this ?? It has information about Ash-Greninja !
Now, I'm trying to be hype about Ash-Greninja but I can't for some reason .
Honestly , Ash-Greninja doesn't as interesting as Goodra seemed.
Plus , The idea of getting a mega ring and traveling across the region to collect mega stone seem more thrilling & interesting then Ash shouting "I Love Greninjaaaaa" and he changing form.

i mean lets be real even if ash were to get a mega stone etc he wouldnt be running around searching for them. he'd get them as a gift and the storyline would focus on developing a bond and controlling that power.

Famon said:

Can someone Translate this ?? It has information about Ash-Greninja !
Now, I'm trying to be hype about Ash-Greninja but I can't for some reason .
Honestly , Ash-Greninja doesn't as interesting as Goodra seemed.
Plus , The idea of getting a mega ring and traveling across the region to collect mega stone seem more thrilling & interesting then Ash shouting "I Love Greninjaaaaa" and he changing form.

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http://demshinypokeballs.tumblr.com/post/130253913465/thanks-to-adamant-for-the-translation-mega-act-4

Read this article from Tumblr fyi

According to this tweet by Akemi Omode , After the Serena/Eevee arc is over the atmosphere of the series will change....
Akemi Omode is one of the writer of Pokemon anime.
Honestly , I don't care what Atmosphere Pokemon anime have!
If Ash doesn't get a Mega ring , Find a perfect replacement for Goodra and win the Kalo League then the Series will be a failure for me !

Also @DBZ-fan ,
Misty's Violent side is part of her personality ! Cutting it off in excuse of character development is same as killing a part of her.
The main reason your okay with this because its Misty !
To You , Misty has to be a "Flawless Being" and you want everyone to see Misty that way.
So , You can't bear anyone point a flaw in Misty Or talk about her becoming Boring.
Imagine Otae (Gintama) completely cut off her violent side and become a total nice girl in Order to be Mature! Do you think people like her that way.
Thats the main problem of the Anime , Writers think Development mean Characters becoming non-violent & More mature! But Mature characters are usually the stupidest and weakest in most Anime! Example : Lucy (Fairy Tail) is the most mature member of Fairy tail But she often regard as the weakest or Useless by many fans.
There is different between maturity and Competency ! During Original series , Brock was the most mature But Misty was The sharpest since she's always the 1st one to suspect TR's plan.
The main reason rebooting Ash in BW series failed because Writer only made him weaker and studier while keeping his "Perfect mannered Mature" personality from DP .
However , if Ash regained his self-centered , arrogant and sarcastic personalty from Original series while keeping his Battling skill and knowledge from DP then the rebooting would became a Success.

i bet the series will enter it's dark-toned era <3 can't waiiit

also famon why cant you just enjoy things like nothing is perfect and anyway most of your ideas are terrible from a storytelling standpoint like why cant u chill and enjoy what the series has to offer and be excited when they feature new things

ugh yeah so in agreement there. the pikachu/other plot-important pokemon mind control & ash breaking it with FRIENDSHIP is one of the most overdone plotlines in the series. do not want.

Honestly , This "New Atmosphere" should be same as PokeSpe Atmosphere ! But I doubt the Anime can pull it though.
The series should start with introducing interesting new character like the PokeSpe protagonist & Mirroverse character.
I really wish to see A Lady like Platina , A clean-freak like Rudy , A Con-artist like Green , A sloth like X , A energetic girl like Y , A crybaby like Mirror-Ash etc etc.

Things will probably get slightly more serious and plot-driven during the Team Flare stuff and, when that's over, I assume the anime will go back to being what it was before.

I'm just hoping this will be good. You have Zygarde, Team Flare, Satoshi's new Gekkouga, Alan (and, hopefully, Manon) coming into the main series, Shōta, etc. It's enough material for some really great stuff. But Pocket Monsters has such a terrible track record with evil teams. They usually end up being rushed and the climaxes are such let downs.

It looks like the writers put some actual effort into this one… but then again, same could be said for Episode N.