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The Rainbow Connection [LGBTS Club]

Ineffable~

DAT SNARKITUDE
2,738
Posts
15
Years
I agree it isn't right, but there's enough of a difference to me between "well-thought-out, rage-inducing" hate and "oh I'm different than you and I don't like you I guess" hate. Those I feel will eventually accept or tolerate homosexuality, given enough time and appropriate exposure.
Yes, this, because if you don't actually hate homo/transsexuals as people, then it's only a narrow matter of time till you meet one and your opinion is changed almost instantly. These people I am perfectly willing to work patiently with.
 

-ty-

Don't Ask, Just Tell
792
Posts
14
Years
  • Age 32
  • USA
  • Seen May 2, 2015
Okay so here are some rights that some people oppose:

- same-sex marriage
- same-sex adoption/parental rights
- same-sex employment rights (in several states you can fire a gay person based on sexuality without consequence)

Okay, there is a difference between neutrality or indifference with these issues and active opposition. If you do not support nor do you oppose the above issues, then there is not any stance on the issue, and I would not consider that hate, maybe a bit of ignorance to what the issues entail. But when you are actively oppositional to these rights I believe that there could be a level of hate, and at the the very least, a level of prejudice/intolerance. I really would not want to be friends with anyone who actively opposes these rights. The argument I dislike most as a response to that is "just because someone doesn't follow the same beliefs that you do..." Well, the thing is if I opposed interracial marriage, believed that they should not be able to marry, adopt, or feel free of discrimination at their job, I think that an interracial couple should have the right to feel like I am taking away their liberties/quality of life, and they would have every right to not associate with me.
 
10,769
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Hate is just a high level of intolerance and with people who oppose LGBT rights there is certainly intolerance there. That's why I don't want to say that they have hatred, but I also don't rule out it's possible. Call it a small amount of hate, but I'd say it's very likely there in most people.
 

-ty-

Don't Ask, Just Tell
792
Posts
14
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  • Age 32
  • USA
  • Seen May 2, 2015
Do you think that we should offer the HIV morning after pill at our Student Health Center? My constituents are asking me to introduce legislation that would do just that.

This is what I'm talking about:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-exposure_prophylaxis

On one hand, you will have some people argue that it will encourage unsafe-sex/sex with positive partners. On the other hand, you will have people say that it will decrease the student's chances of contracting HIV from sex.

I would have to say that if a student has had sex with a person who is HIV+, then the HIV morning after pill should be provided to the student. Condoms rip, bad choices are made, and many other factors come into play, the pill, I think will help the student and the spread of HIV.
 

Ineffable~

DAT SNARKITUDE
2,738
Posts
15
Years
On one hand, you will have some people argue that it will encourage unsafe-sex/sex with positive partners. On the other hand, you will have people say that it will decrease the student's chances of contracting HIV from sex.

I would have to say that if a student has had sex with a person who is HIV+, then the HIV morning after pill should be provided to the student. Condoms rip, bad choices are made, and many other factors come into play, the pill, I think will help the student and the spread of HIV.
Yeah, I would say definitely provide the pill. It's better safe than sorry, and it's not at all useful to say "well, you shouldn't have had unprotected sex in the first place" when someone could be contracting an incurable, deadly disease here.
Honestly I didn't know something like this existed before but it's important that it be available to everyone.
 

FreakyLocz14

Conservative Patriot
3,498
Posts
14
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  • Seen Aug 29, 2018

Yeah, I would say definitely provide the pill. It's better safe than sorry, and it's not at all useful to say "well, you shouldn't have had unprotected sex in the first place" when someone could be contracting an incurable, deadly disease here.
Honestly I didn't know something like this existed before but it's important that it be available to everyone.

The biggest hurdle in garnering support is always cost, though.
 

Shining Raichu

Expect me like you expect Jesus.
8,959
Posts
13
Years
Welcome Charlie Kelly!! It's good to have new members, they're coming less frequently now :)

Do you think that all people who oppose all or certain LGBT rights/liberties inherently hate LGBT people?

I'm going to say yes. I tend to see LGBT issues more black and white than most people do, so I'd definitely say that they do. What other reason is there? Intolerance, hate, it's all the same thing. I honestly think that if people are so against a concept that they find themselves acting, speaking or thinking against the rights of the people who practice that concept, then there is of course a level of hate or dislike there. There are things people have said on this issue that I'm going to respond to:

1 - The religious sentiment of "hate the sin, love the sinner" - I think this is one of Christianity's most effective cop-outs because in essence it's a message of peace. But it's designed, in my opinion, to keep criticism of the religion at bay. If you look at it, what it's really saying is "we hate who you are and what you do, but we still love you in spite of that". I honestly don't buy it for a second. You don't love somebody if you hate a large intrinsic part of who they are. The religion itself would never vote in favour of gay rights, so basically what it's doing is patting us on our heads and telling us it's all going to be okay while screwing us behind our backs. I think it's one of the most insidious messages religion puts out there and the implications of it are confusing to the point of potential harm. I'd prefer it if they were just honest rather than trying to appease us for the sake of their public image.

2 - The "upbringing" excuse - This is one thing I really can't stand about people who are against LGBT rights. What it implies when that is said is that because that's how you were brought up, it's automatically OK. It's a cop-out; it's something to fall back on. The way you were brought up, in my opinion, is no excuse for the way you think now. Surely it's a factor, but everybody is capable of independent thought and therefore nobody has an excuse to be a mouthpiece for the views of their parents. If you hate the LGBT community or don't support their rights, you're going to have to do better than "that's the way I was raised", I'm afraid. I was raised with the intolerant view that foreigners should go back to their own countries and stay the hell away from Australia, but that's certainly not what I believe now.
 
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-Jared-

Certified Responsible Adult
1,818
Posts
15
Years
Do you think that all people who oppose all or certain LGBT rights/liberties inherently hate LGBT people?

I'm going to say yes. I tend to see LGBT issues more black and white than most people do, so I'd definitely say that they do. What other reason is there? Intolerance, hate, it's all the same thing. I honestly think that if people are so against a concept that they find themselves acting, speaking or thinking against the rights of the people who practice that concept, then there is of course a level of hate or dislike there. There are things people have said on this issue that I'm going to respond to:

1 - The religious sentiment of "hate the sin, love the sinner" - I think this is one of Christianity's most effective cop-outs because in essence it's a message of peace. But it's designed, in my opinion, to keep criticism of the religion at bay. If you look at it, what it's really saying is "we hate who you are and what you do, but we still love you in spite of that". I honestly don't buy it for a second. You don't love somebody if you hate a large intrinsic part of who they are. The religion itself would never vote in favour of gay rights, so basically what it's doing is patting us on our heads and telling us it's all going to be okay while screwing us behind our backs. I think it's one of the most insidious messages religion puts out there and the implications of it are confusing to the point of potential harm. I'd prefer it if they were just honest rather than trying to appease us for the sake of their public image.

I just wanna ask, do you think this about ALL Christians? Because I can vouch at least for the ELCA that they don't actually follow "Love the sinner, Hate the sin, so what you are saying wouldn't apply to them.

ANd FreakyLocz, I haven't had a chance to watch your video. When I do, I might have a comment.
 
10,769
Posts
14
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Welcome Charlie Kelly!! It's good to have new members, they're coming less frequently now :)

Do you think that all people who oppose all or certain LGBT rights/liberties inherently hate LGBT people?

I'm going to say yes. I tend to see LGBT issues more black and white than most people do, so I'd definitely say that they do. What other reason is there? Intolerance, hate, it's all the same thing. I honestly think that if people are so against a concept that they find themselves acting, speaking or thinking against the rights of the people who practice that concept, then there is of course a level of hate or dislike there. There are things people have said on this issue that I'm going to respond to:

1 - The religious sentiment of "hate the sin, love the sinner" - I think this is one of Christianity's most effective cop-outs because in essence it's a message of peace. But it's designed, in my opinion, to keep criticism of the religion at bay. If you look at it, what it's really saying is "we hate who you are and what you do, but we still love you in spite of that". I honestly don't buy it for a second. You don't love somebody if you hate a large intrinsic part of who they are. The religion itself would never vote in favour of gay rights, so basically what it's doing is patting us on our heads and telling us it's all going to be okay while screwing us behind our backs. I think it's one of the most insidious messages religion puts out there and the implications of it are confusing to the point of potential harm. I'd prefer it if they were just honest rather than trying to appease us for the sake of their public image.
I'm feeling pretty black and white this morning myself.

While I do believe that it's possible (and even common) to love someone while hating something they do, I have to agree with Raichu. It always feels like a cop-out when someone uses this line. It's kind of bothersome for some outside person to dissect you like that. They say "Oh, you are separate from your 'sin'" - as if it isn't an intrinsic part of you. Even if it really isn't a big part of who you are, who is someone else to presume that?

2 - The "upbringing" excuse - This is one thing I really can't stand about people who are against LGBT rights. What it implies when that is said is that because that's how you were brought up, it's automatically OK. It's a cop-out; it's something to fall back on. The way you were brought up, in my opinion, is no excuse for the way you think now. Surely it's a factor, but everybody is capable of independent thought and therefore nobody has an excuse to be a mouthpiece for the views of their parents. If you hate the LGBT community or don't support their rights, you're going to have to do better than "that's the way I was raised", I'm afraid. I was raised with the intolerant view that foreigners should go back to their own countries and stay the hell away from Australia, but that's certainly not what I believe now.
It's an excuse not to think. It's like saying "Well, I could listen to your argument on this and try to come up with a thoughtful conclusion, or I could just go with what I already feel." If someone were to say "I've thought about this a lot and based on everything I've read and heard I've concluded that I can't be for LGBT rights." then that would be something a whole lot better. But no one does that because then they *gasp* might have to explain their reasoning and put their conclusions up to the spotlight. If you say "It's how I was raised" it's like we somehow aren't allowed to challenge that - or that it's something a person can't change - or even worse, that it's admittedly prejudiced and not logical and that no logical arguments can or should be used in trying to get someone to change their mind.

How do you feel about this guy saying bullying is good?
I don't buy that bullying is a part of life and that we should just deal with it. We're supposed to accept something bad because it's common? That's stupid. Sexual assault and rape are quite common despite that we know they're bad and don't say "well, that's the way things are." I know there's a vast difference in severity between rape and bullying, but the underlying principle is (or should be) the same.
 

-ty-

Don't Ask, Just Tell
792
Posts
14
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  • Age 32
  • USA
  • Seen May 2, 2015


I just wanna ask, do you think this about ALL Christians? Because I can vouch at least for the ELCA that they don't actually follow "Love the sinner, Hate the sin, so what you are saying wouldn't apply to them.

ANd FreakyLocz, I haven't had a chance to watch your video. When I do, I might have a comment.

No, I think he was talking about those who use religion as a way to justify opposition to gay rights.

People literally used religion to justify opposition to liberating slaves because the bible never condemned slavery, and it dictates that "slaves obey masters whether they be kind or cruel." So slave-owners condemned runaway slaves for breaking the religious law. Like his example, using inappropriately using religion to justify oppression equivocates hate/intolerance. However, not all Christians inappropriately use religion to oppress others.

Also, the "love the sinner" thing doesn't really apply either. For example, you would not actively oppose job anti-discrimination protection for a gay person if you "loved" them. I mean, look at Alqueda, they kill tons of people and oppress women, yet their religious text is similar to Christianity.
 

Ineffable~

DAT SNARKITUDE
2,738
Posts
15
Years
How do you feel about this guy saying bullying is good?
Umm, wow. I almost have no comment. o.o Partially because I'm kind of weirded out, and also partially because I only understood 40% of what he said.

Anyway, no obviously I don't think bullying is okay. It may be normal and a part of life, however that does not make it okay and does not place the burden on the victim alone to deal with it.
 

Shining Raichu

Expect me like you expect Jesus.
8,959
Posts
13
Years


I just wanna ask, do you think this about ALL Christians? Because I can vouch at least for the ELCA that they don't actually follow "Love the sinner, Hate the sin, so what you are saying wouldn't apply to them.

Yeah, as ty said, I was just referring to the people that do follow the 'love the sinner, hate the sin' school of thought.

Scarf said:

Sometimes, my dear - just sometimes - it feels like we are the same person XD
 

Shining Raichu

Expect me like you expect Jesus.
8,959
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13
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Welcome, Articunown, to both PC and the LGBTetc Club! Your name's been added to the list :)

Also this was on a current affairs show in Australia tonight. It was a nice story but in my opinion they played up the gay angle a little too much and the whole story had that condescending "Well isn't that nice. Good for them!" feel to it.
 
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Sometimes, my dear - just sometimes - it feels like we are the same person XD
My dear sir, I believe we are in agreement on this.

Also this was on a current affairs show in Australia tonight. It was a nice story but in my opinion they played up the gay angle a little too much and the whole story had that condescending "Well isn't that nice. Good for them!" feel to it.
Well, good for them? I dunno. Surrogacy kind of weirds me out, personally. And dayum. $130,000 to do everything? If you're going to go through with all the trouble of flying to India to get babies then maybe you ought to adopt some already there who need homes.
 

Ineffable~

DAT SNARKITUDE
2,738
Posts
15
Years
Also this was on a current affairs show in Australia tonight. It was a nice story but in my opinion they played up the gay angle a little too much and the whole story had that condescending "Well isn't that nice. Good for them!" feel to it.
Sounds nice. I didn't feel the whole condescending thing but I like the story. I'm not all that thrilled about surrogacy but, if it makes them happy~

Well, good for them? I dunno. Surrogacy kind of weirds me out, personally. And dayum. $130,000 to do everything? If you're going to go through with all the trouble of flying to India to get babies then maybe you ought to adopt some already there who need homes.
Agreed. Honestly it makes it difficult for me to be sincerely happy for them. @_@
 

Shining Raichu

Expect me like you expect Jesus.
8,959
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13
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Oh, I didn't mean the article I linked had the condescending energy, I meant the story they had about it on the current affairs show on TV lol
 

-ty-

Don't Ask, Just Tell
792
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14
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  • Age 32
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  • Seen May 2, 2015
The thread died for a whole day :(

Anyways, I will revive it with a question:

Is it enough to trust someone before sex? Do you think that is appropriate or not to ask a potential sexual partner for STD/HIV testing results?
 
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