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  #276    
Old July 6th, 2011 (07:10 AM).
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  #277    
Old July 7th, 2011 (12:50 AM).
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Here in my state, a bill has passed the Legislature that would allow for LGBT issues to be taught in public schools.

Here is the bill:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/postquery?bill_number=sb_48&sess=CUR&house=B&author=alquist

Here is a site that supports the bill:
http://www.eqca.org/site/pp.asp?c=kuLRJ9MRKrH&b=6451639

Here is a site that opposed the bill:
http://www.pacificjustice.org/news/new-bill-would-require-lgbt-indoctrination-elementary-age-students

My comments:
I support the idea of this bill, but I oppose this specific bill on a technicality. There is no opt-out provision for parents who do not wish for their students to be exposed to homosexual topics.

Thoughts? Discuss.
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  #278    
Old July 7th, 2011 (08:39 AM).
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Quote originally posted by FreakyLocz14:
My comments:
I support the idea of this bill, but I oppose this specific bill on a technicality. There is no opt-out provision for parents who do not wish for their students to be exposed to homosexual topics.

Thoughts? Discuss.
It's more important to have this included in education than it is to protect the squeamish feelings of some parents. Sorry parents, but you don't get to shelter your kids from the real world just because you have a problem with gay people.

It's not like 'homosexual topics' is going to include anything other than references to Harvey Milk and other figures. It's really necessary to include queer people in any lengthy discussion of civil rights and social issues in general. The part that keeps out discriminatory language is especially important.
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  #279    
Old July 7th, 2011 (10:45 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Scarf:
It's more important to have this included in education than it is to protect the squeamish feelings of some parents. Sorry parents, but you don't get to shelter your kids from the real world just because you have a problem with gay people.

It's not like 'homosexual topics' is going to include anything other than references to Harvey Milk and other figures. It's really necessary to include queer people in any lengthy discussion of civil rights and social issues in general. The part that keeps out discriminatory language is especially important.
Giving parents control of their student's education is a very important thing to me. This will also have unintended consequences if a repeal of Proposition 8 is on the ballot in 2012. This is the exact reason that it passed in the first place.

The bill also doesn't spell out exactly what will be taught. That makes me uneasy with not having an opt-out provision. If it's just historical facts like the Harvey Milk story, that's fine. If it presses opinions and attitudes towards homosexuality on students, that's wrong.
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  #280    
Old July 7th, 2011 (11:53 AM).
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If it presses tolerance and understanding ,that's good.

Parents homeschooling children or opting them out of things that might actually be good is most certainly not a good thing. The same tends to go for absolutely vital topics like evolution; opting out of important lessons based on the parents' own ignorance or in this case bigotry, will only create more ignorance and bigotry and will do no one any kind of good. It will only hold society back.
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  #281    
Old July 7th, 2011 (12:14 PM).
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Quote originally posted by JimJams:
If it presses tolerance and understanding ,that's good.

Parents homeschooling children or opting them out of things that might actually be good is most certainly not a good thing. The same tends to go for absolutely vital topics like evolution; opting out of important lessons based on the parents' own ignorance or in this case bigotry, will only create more ignorance and bigotry and will do no one any kind of good. It will only hold society back.
Now wait just one minute. You wouldn't like these so-called bigots pressing their values on you and your children because you don't like them. Likewise, we have no right to press our values on them and their children. When you defend the liberty to hold your own values and to have your children raised with those values, you need to protect it across the board. We set a dangerous precedent when we allow the government to pick and choose what values are worth teaching. That's not the government's job, imo. The government's job is to teach children academics, not to instill social values in them. If schools want to have these lessons as electives, I'm fine with that. In California, the large majority of people are tolerant of homosexuality to some extent, anyway.
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  #282    
Old July 7th, 2011 (04:58 PM).
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Unlike, say, creationism, gay acceptance is important and will, hopefully take down aggression toward people who don't meet students' idea of normal or acceptable. It is vital to the psychological well-being of everyone, not something like a denial of scientific evidence for the preservation of religious belief or teaching that (ethic group, sexual orientation etc.) is unacceptable or bad.
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  #283    
Old July 7th, 2011 (06:26 PM).
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Quote originally posted by FreakyLocz14:
If it presses opinions and attitudes towards homosexuality on students, that's wrong.
Attitudes like, say, it's wrong to bully someone for being gay? I mean, I know you hate gay bashing as much as I do. I just don't get why you wouldn't want help in schools - where a lot of this happens - to help stop it. That's how I'm seeing this. I don't see how it is anything other than an attempt to add more tolerance to schools. So we're obviously seeing different things.
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  #284    
Old July 7th, 2011 (07:09 PM). Edited July 9th, 2011 by FreakyLocz14.
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Quote originally posted by Scarf:
Attitudes like, say, it's wrong to bully someone for being gay? I mean, I know you hate gay bashing as much as I do. I just don't get why you wouldn't want help in schools - where a lot of this happens - to help stop it. That's how I'm seeing this. I don't see how it is anything other than an attempt to add more tolerance to schools. So we're obviously seeing different things.
Let's look at it this way. I'm a Christian, and you're an atheist (idk if you really are, but let's pretend you are for the sake of this discussion). You wouldn't want me pressing my beliefs and values on your children; likewise, I wouldn't like you pressing your beliefs and values on my children. Whether or not homosexuality is socially acceptable is a judgement call, and the schools have no business making those calls for people. That is the domain of the students and their parents. This is one of the reasons we don't have prayer in public schools.

I'd support this bill if those who don't want those values instilled in their children were able to opt them out of that instruction. Most parents in California wouldn't do that anyway, but we have to protect liberty across the board. People have a right to hold any belief they want, even if the majority of people see their beliefs as bigoted.

When it comes to homophobic beliefs, this quote sums up the point I'm trying to get at:
"I might not agree with what you're saying, but I'll defend you right to say it".
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  #285    
Old July 8th, 2011 (09:37 AM).
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Quote originally posted by FreakyLocz14:
Let's look at it this way. I'm a Christian, and you're an atheist (idk if you really are, but let's pretend you are for the sake of this discussion). You wouldn't want me pressing my beliefs and values on your children; likewise, I wouldn't like you pressing your beliefs and values on my children. Whether or not homosexuality is socially acceptable is a judgement call, and the schools have no business making those calls for people. That is the domain of the students and their parents. This one of the reasons we don't have prayer in public schools.

I'd support this bill if those who don't want those values instilled in their children were able to opt them out of that instruction. Most parents in California wouldn't do that anyway, but we have to protect liberty across the board. People have a right to hold any belief they want, even if the majority of people see their beliefs as bigoted.

When it comes to homophobic beliefs, this quote sums up the point I'm trying to get at:
"I might not agree with what you're saying, but I'll defend you right to say it".
"I might
I don't have much of an opinion on this subject. Just thought I'd say, being an atheist is more of an opinion or a choice, in case of being gay... it isn't exactly the same thing. But oh well...

Anyway, I'm in a weird type of doubt.
Till now, I was convinced that I am bi, I've had a girlfriend before... And well for guys, it is unfortunate how I have never met a gay guy irl.
So my bestfriend was talking to me about how I only talk about guys all the time... and never about girls. Which is true... I've only ever been physically attracted to guys, and with women, it hasn't been the case (except for my gf, in that case we had been together for so long that I had physical and romantic attraction towards her)
Right now I'm totally confused, was it that bi phase that gay guys go through? In the future, I don't think I'll be hooking up with women. I don't wanna be one of those bi guys, really. Basically, I think I'm a 4 or a 5 on the Kinsey scale.

So what do you guys think? This stuff is really confusing. Ideally I would avoid labels, but idk...
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  #286    
Old July 8th, 2011 (10:29 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Renii:
Ideally I would avoid labels, but idk...
That's what I would do. If you're more attracted to guys but still somewhat attracted to girls then, well, that's just how it is and you're still bi. No worries. If you're just wishing you could do something with a guy (which I can understand - I've never had a boyfriend either) then maybe you're kinda focusing a lot on those feelings at the moment. As long as you're not feeling uncomfortable, like thinking that you should be bi even if that's not really what you feel at the moment, then I wouldn't worry.
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  #287    
Old July 8th, 2011 (08:34 PM).
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Mind me joining?

I'm trans/bigender, bisexual and panromantic.
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  #288    
Old July 8th, 2011 (09:12 PM).
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Quote originally posted by TornZero:
Mind me joining?

I'm trans/bigender, bisexual and panromantic.
Not at all! Welcome, TornZero!

Perhaps someone can answer me this question. What is the difference between bisexual and pansexual? Or biromantic/panromantic, even? I'm having trouble grasping the technical differences.
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  #289    
Old July 9th, 2011 (01:32 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Shining Raichu:
Perhaps someone can answer me this question. What is the difference between bisexual and pansexual? Or biromantic/panromantic, even? I'm having trouble grasping the technical differences.
Bi- means attracted to male and female. Pan- means attracted to anyone regardless of where they fall on the gender spectrum. They get mixed up a lot, I think, because they're pretty similar.
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  #290    
Old July 9th, 2011 (02:10 PM).
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I know a lot of girls who won't date a bisexual guys. I usually get two reasons.:

1) There are no such things as bisexuals guys. They are just full homosexuals trying to save some grace by saying they go both ways.

2) Bisexuals are naturally promiscuous, and can't be in a monogamous relationship since they need to have two partners (one male and one female) at any given time.

That's not what I think. That's what other girls tell me as to why they won't date a bisexual guy.
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  #291    
Old July 9th, 2011 (06:20 PM).
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Quote originally posted by FreakyLocz14:
I know a lot of girls who won't date a bisexual guys.
Most of the girls I know said they would enjoy it (some admitted it was because they would like to see two guys kissing), but I have a response to the two reasons you posted.

1) Most, if not all, people are considered bisexual to a degree. They may just have a stronger urge for a certain sex that makes the urge for the other practically non-existent.

2) This kind of answer says that they believe homosexuals and heterosexuals are in better control of themselves than bisexuals due to having an attraction to a single sex as opposed to both, and to me, this is a little offensive (a lot if they're actually serious). I have pretty good control over my own libido, and I would honestly love a one-on-one relationship with someone I care about.

And @Shining Raichu, it may be easier to remember if you switch the "pan" in pansexual and panromantic to "omni" (omnisexual and omniromantic), a prefix many people are taught about unlike "pan" (though both "pan" and "omni" literally mean "all"). "Bi" literally means "two", referring to the male and female binary sexes.
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  #292    
Old July 9th, 2011 (07:22 PM). Edited July 10th, 2011 by Renii.
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Quote originally posted by Scarf:
That's what I would do. If you're more attracted to guys but still somewhat attracted to girls then, well, that's just how it is and you're still bi. No worries. If you're just wishing you could do something with a guy (which I can understand - I've never had a boyfriend either) then maybe you're kinda focusing a lot on those feelings at the moment. As long as you're not feeling uncomfortable, like thinking that you should be bi even if that's not really what you feel at the moment, then I wouldn't worry.
Thank you. Makes me feel better :D

EDIT: Thought I'd add...
It seems so obvious at first but it took some tome for me to realize that being gay or bi is really just a label.
Calling myself gay and not accepting any attraction towards women that I may have is almost like being closeted.

@FreakyLocz14:
That is a lot of stereotyping going on there :O
As far as non monogamy is concerned, it ultimately depends on the person and not his sexual preference. Tbh, they are more likely to come across straight douche bags who are non monogamous.
I know I had to convince a girl that I'm not going to go about kissing other boys when I'm in a relationship with her :O
For the first point, I've come across gay guys who say similar things about bi guys in chat rooms... And Chris Colfer on Glee.
Bi guys get the crap from both the hetero and lgbt communities in that sense :O
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  #293    
Old July 10th, 2011 (09:15 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Renii:
Thank you. Makes me feel better :D

EDIT: Thought I'd add...
It seems so obvious at first but it took some tome for me to realize that being gay or bi is really just a label.
Calling myself gay and not accepting any attraction towards women that I may have is almost like being closeted.
That's exactly what I wanted to say, but couldn't find the words to. Someday I hope we won't have labels. I mean, we'll still have them, but they won't be used as identities and no one will feel they have to fit into one if they don't feel that way.
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  #294    
Old July 12th, 2011 (05:14 PM).
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So guys, Landorus has asked me to be in charge of bringing you the news! So without further ado:

Gay Headlines

New York town clerk quits over gay marriage licenses
Counselling clinic accused of telling patients to overcome homosexual urges
Hate crimes on the rise, report says
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  #295    
Old July 13th, 2011 (11:33 AM).
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I've always kind of thought, or maybe just hoped, that things across the board would get better day by day, but seeing hate crimes on the rise has me a little bit more worried we're slipping down a hole. I mean, if you follow politics (American politics, that is) even a little you can see that the amount of hate and crazy in this country is getting louder and louder. I mean, the woman who might end up running for the president against Obama runs an anti-gay 'counseling' clinic. How much will that legitimize anti-gay feelings that lots of people have?
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  #296    
Old July 14th, 2011 (11:51 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Shining Raichu:
So guys, Landorus has asked me to be in charge of bringing you the news! So without further ado:

Gay Headlines

New York town clerk quits over gay marriage licenses
Counselling clinic accused of telling patients to overcome homosexual urges
Hate crimes on the rise, report says
My opinion is this: We are entitled to our opinions and beliefs. If you want to quit your job because you have a moral objection towards same-sex marriage, be my guest. Just don't go to the unemployment office seeking taxpayer subsidation of your bigotry.

My AS Senate office just released this statement on the signing of the FAIR Education Act, which requires LGBT contibutions to be included in public school history standards here in California.:

"Governor Jerry Brown signed the FAIR Education Act (SB 48) into law yesterday. While I applaud the inclusion of LGBT people in discussions of our national and state history, I fear that this will move beyond the teaching of historical facts and into pressing sociopolitical beliefs and values on schoolchildren. I hope the Legislature can further improve upon this legislation in the future."
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  #297    
Old July 15th, 2011 (06:17 AM).
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I agree with you here Freaky. While it doesn't make me like the woman because she's clearly a disgusting bigot and nothing more, if she wants to quit her job then that's fine by me. All it does is put her out of a job; it doesn't stop gay people getting married.
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  #298    
Old July 15th, 2011 (10:08 AM).
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I'm a little shy about this, I don't usually voice my opinion with people who aren't extremely close to me, heck, the only person I talk to about this issue is Fuyuhiko (Fernando), mind if I join you guys? Since I've been sucking in these feelings for a while, and well, I'm getting really tired of the people treating me third class.. my parents said they'll kick me out if they even suspect me "choosing" to be gay. They got really paranoid since they had seen my ex-boyfriend, who they expected was just a best friend, acted real gay and was a bit friendly with me.. I draw to relieve stress and axiety but.. I don't know anymore.. it even took me an hour and 45 minutes just to convince my religious friends that I can't go to boobs.. this is ridiculous..

Heck my friends make fun of me for being gay all the time lol but there's no hate behind it, but others I can actually tell..
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  #299    
Old July 15th, 2011 (08:50 PM).
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Quote originally posted by tehGDS:
I'm a little shy about this, I don't usually voice my opinion with people who aren't extremely close to me, heck, the only person I talk to about this issue is Fuyuhiko (Fernando), mind if I join you guys? Since I've been sucking in these feelings for a while, and well, I'm getting really tired of the people treating me third class.. my parents said they'll kick me out if they even suspect me "choosing" to be gay. They got really paranoid since they had seen my ex-boyfriend, who they expected was just a best friend, acted real gay and was a bit friendly with me.. I draw to relieve stress and axiety but.. I don't know anymore.. it even took me an hour and 45 minutes just to convince my religious friends that I can't go to boobs.. this is ridiculous..

Heck my friends make fun of me for being gay all the time lol but there's no hate behind it, but others I can actually tell..
Hey there, tehGDS, of course you can join.

The first thing that needs to be said immediately is that clearly your parents are not good enough and they don't deserve you. Never let anybody make you think that you are the bad person in this scenario, because they are the disgusting bullies. The bad part is, right now I'm sure you need them financially, so for now you're kinda stuck. You shouldn't have to hide, but I guess for now you do. It breaks my heart to hear that there are parents who would be this way to their own child over something so insignificant.

The only advice I can give is wait until you're 18 and then tell them when you're in college. The more independent you are, the less you need them. If I were you and my parents had told me they'd kick me out of home for being gay, then what I would do is find an incredibly creative way to let them know you're gay that will inflict the largest amount of pain on them possible. Use your homosexuality and their homophobia as weapons. If they're religious, go into a detailed speech about how much fun you'll have living in sin. If they're just bigoted for no reason (not that religion is a reason) then at the very least you can put on your most condescending smile and let them know in no uncertain terms that you are gay and that you are a better person now than they could ever hope to be.

*snaps out of rage-trance* Wow, I'm a little bitter, aren't I?
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  #300    
Old July 16th, 2011 (07:52 PM).
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Quote originally posted by tehGDS:
I'm a little shy about this, I don't usually voice my opinion with people who aren't extremely close to me, heck, the only person I talk to about this issue is Fuyuhiko (Fernando), mind if I join you guys? Since I've been sucking in these feelings for a while, and well, I'm getting really tired of the people treating me third class.. my parents said they'll kick me out if they even suspect me "choosing" to be gay. They got really paranoid since they had seen my ex-boyfriend, who they expected was just a best friend, acted real gay and was a bit friendly with me.. I draw to relieve stress and axiety but.. I don't know anymore.. it even took me an hour and 45 minutes just to convince my religious friends that I can't go to boobs.. this is ridiculous..

Heck my friends make fun of me for being gay all the time lol but there's no hate behind it, but others I can actually tell..
Welcome to the club!

I can't stress this enough. Do not come out to your parents until you are living by yourself and your life is stable enough to risk losing them.

Right now, you're dependent on them. So, if you are risking ruining your life just to tell them it isn't worth telling them. But, they have a right to know. You should tell them eventually, in your case it will take longer.

Your friends..I don't know what to say about it. On one hand I want to call them rude and that you don't deserve them. But on another, some of my friends and I do the same thing. For example, my friend Isaiah (who is black..and gay for that matter) he calls me a honkey and makes fun of me whenever I do something stereotypically white. When he comes up behind me I'll scream "Don't rob me!" and I'll make fun of him whenever he does something stereotypical. We do that because we think racism is so stupid it's funny and that's our way of making fun of racism.

Just try and don't let being gay control your life. Some people put too much focus on it. You're gay, so what? Who you have sex with doesn't matter, although people don't see it that way sometimes. Just ignore those people (although, that is very hard to do at times) and focus on the good people!

Although it sounds cheesy (I think it does anyways)..it does get better.

(I'm using a lot of parenthesis.)
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