CONGRATS! US HEALTHCARE REFORM PASSES!

[Melody]

I'll open with a quote by our favorite OC Moderator.

BEFORE YOU SAY SOMETHING COMPLETELY STUPID


Healthcare Bill Summary​

Not like any of you will actually read up on what you argue about.

It's government health care like us. ;)

https://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health_care_overhaul

Lovely how all republicans were against it. Clearly they would only like to see the rich survive.

Lololol No der. Remember the BS that Dubya pulled in office? You bet your shiney hiney he was oiled! (Meaning he wasn't always defending the interests of the nation, but looking out for BIG OIL COMPANIES)

And this monstrosity was just the perfect way to go about reform, wasn't it? Please.

AND DON'T YOU DARE TRY TO SAY REPUBLICANS ARE OPPOSED TO REFORM.

IT'S JUST THIS PIECE OF CRAP BILL WE'RE OPPOSED TO.

Bull. Friking. ****. Seriously, what did even more damage than Dubya managed to do was the largely REPUBLICAN congress that let not only Dubya's BS by, but allowed even more to pass by them while they acted dumb so the rich could get richer and they could keep their fat-asses in office! Yeah, I blame the economic collapse of 2008 squarely on Dubya, his administration, and the congress that had just closed it's session in november of that year!

My uncle was just in the hospital and he was denied coverage by three insurance companies because he is unhealthy and had a preexisting condition and the companies would have had to pay for his bills, which were costly. So now he has to teach himself to walk again, since insurance wouldn't pay for his physical therapy for six weeks. If "ObamaCare" (The American taxpayers) wants to pay for his bills, then thanks. Appreciate it. I'm sure he does too, since it'll help him walk again, but he's certainly not complaining and he's doing well on his own. I know I'd love to help him, but my family can barely afford our own bills as it is, since we aren't rich like those evil Republicans!

My favorite part of the bill: "Tanning Tax -- 10 percent excise tax on indoor tanning services"

And I'll say one thing to the people claiming how Republicans are evil and hate the poor. Some of your own, fellow Democrats voted no for the bill, so...why aren't you calling them evil and poor haters? I just find it funny that it's only the Republicans that are evil and not these Democrats, along with the other 55% of America that opposed the bill. But whatever. Ignore the facts that more than just Republicans opposed the bill and continue to say only they are evil. That's easier than accepting that 55% of people just didn't like it. :)

I honestly feel for you. I've seen this BS happen to so many families even right here where I live, in the big middle of the Permian Basin. x3

My heart goes out to you as well Mika.

Honestly, I am happy that this bill has squeaked through. While it's not exactly the cure for the issue it will bring some relief to honest americans who NEED the healthcare.

As for the fine, I'm not worried about that provision, you have until 2014 to be insured or be in the poorhouse so that you aren't required to buy it. x3 Hopefully the next bill that is coming up will pass, which essentially makes some changes to the laws enacted by this bill and improves it. I don't exactly know what all is in the addendum bill, but hopefully it will cut out some of the pork that some of the Republicans probably demanded that be inserted into it so they would vote for it, and improve some of the more controversial portions of the bill which just passed. x3

 

[Netto Azure]

I <3 it.

CHIBI CAN I MAKE MY OLD THREAD SO THE OTHERS CAN SEE THIS SUMMARY?
​

Original thread: https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=197741

Yay <3

This wasn't about Democrat vs Republican, this was about the health of American citizens. Anyone else ecstatic?

BAWW. I WANTED TO REVIVE MY OLD DEBATE THREAD. ;o;
​

:'(

Anyways my usual crap has to go in here someplace. :P

Economist Tsung-Mei Cheng three Universal Laws of Health Care Systems:​

1. No matter how good the health care in a particular country, people will complain about it.
2. No matter how much money is spent on health care, the doctors and hospitals will argue it is not enough.
3. The last reform always failed.

Currently the a stool in the Domestic policy of the Obama Administration, my favorite topic: Health Care reform, is being publicly debated throughout the United States.

[FONT=&quot]The Current Status of United States Healthcare Reform ​

[FONT=&quot](March 22, 2010) [/FONT]​

Healthcare reform has been the top domestic agenda for US President Barack Obama for a majority of his first year​

Affordable Health Care for America Act (H.R. 3962)​

[FONT=&quot]Introduction [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"To provide affordable, quality health care for all Americans and reduce the growth in health care spending, and for other purposes." [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Summary: [/FONT]
The summary of the bill includes the following elements, among others:

The central changes made by the legislation include:

• prohibiting health insurers from refusing coverage based on patients' medical histories
• prohibiting health insurers from charging different rates based on patients' medical histories or gender
• repeal of insurance companies' exemption from anti-trust laws
• establishing minimum standards for qualified health benefit plans
• requiring most employers to provide coverage for their workers or pay a surtax on the worker's wages up to 8%
• restrictions on abortion coverage in any insurance plans for which federal funds are used
• an expansion of Medicaid to include more low-income Americans by increasing Medicaid eligibility limits to 150% of the Federal Poverty Level and by covering adults without dependents so as long as either or any segment doesn't fall under the narrow exceptions outlined by various clauses throughout the proposal.
• a subsidy to low- and middle-income Americans to help buy insurance
• a central health insurance exchange where the public can compare policies and rates
• a government-run insurance plan (public option); according to some analyses, the plan would be prohibited from covering abortions
• requiring most Americans to carry or obtain qualifying health insurance coverage or possibly face a surtax for non-compliance.
• a 5.4% surtax on individuals whose adjusted gross income exceeds $500,000 ($1 million for married couples filing joint returns)
• a 2.5% excise tax on medical devices
• reductions in projected spending on Medicare of $400 billion over a ten-year period
• inclusion of language originally proposed in the Tax Equity for Domestic Partner and Health Plan Beneficiaries Act
• inclusion of language originally proposed in the Indian Health Care Improvement Act Amendments of 2009.

Status:

US House of Representatives: Affordable Health Care for America Act (H.R. 3962, introduced October 29, 2009, passed on November 7, 2009)

The United States House of Representatives has passed it's version of the bill by a vote of 220 Yay - 215 Nay.

The bill was supported by 219 Democrats and one Republican - Joseph Cao from New Orleans. Opposed were 176 Republicans and 39 Democrats.

Now the Senate bill has been deemed the basis for the Health-care reform effort. The bill has passed 219 Yay - 212 Nay

With all Republicans opposing the bill along with 41 Democrats.

US House of Representatives
(1st Vote): Bill Passed (220 Yay - 215 Nay)
(2nd Vote):Bill Passed (219 Yay - 212 Nay)

[FONT=&quot]Tri Committee: [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]House Energy and Commerce[/FONT][FONT=&quot]: Bill revised/Passed (31 Yes - 28 No)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]House Ways and Means[/FONT][FONT=&quot] : Bill revised/Passed (23 Yes – 18 No) [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]House Education and Labor:[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Bill revised/Passed (26 Yes - 22 No) [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]US Senate: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (H.R. 3590) is a bill passed by the United States Senate at 7:05am on December 24, 2009.[/FONT]

On December 21, the Senate voted to end the Republican filibuster and vote on their version of health care reform, by 60 to 40.

On Christmas Eve of 2009, the Senate arrived at 7am Eastern Time, the first time the Senate had met on Christmas Eve since 1895, and passed the bill to be compromised by both houses of Congress by a vote of 60-39, with only Jim Bunning (R-KY) failing to vote.

As the basis for the reform effort, amendments proposed by the House will be bundled under a Reconciliation bill that is subject to a simple majority vote. With Vice President Biden casting the deciding tie breaker vote.

US Senate (1st Vote): Bill Passed (60 Yay - 39 Nay)

[FONT=&quot]Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions (HELP) Committee: Bill revised/Passed (13 Yes – 10 No) [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Senate Finance Committee[/FONT][FONT=&quot]: Bill revised/Passed (14 Yes - 9 No)[/FONT]

No Country for Sick Men: To judge the content of a nation's character, look no further than its health-care system.

Healthcare around the world​

United States - Private system

Private sector funded, with more than half from private sources. Private health insurance available through employer, government or private schemes.​

15.3% of population (45.7 million people) do not have health insurance.​

Federal government is largest healthcare insurer - involved in two main schemes, Medicaid and Medicare, each covering about 13% of population.​

Medicaid - joint funded federal-state programme for certain low income and needy groups - eg children, disabled.​

Medicare - for people 65 years old and above and some younger disabled people and those with permanent kidney failure undergoing dialysis or transplant.​

Most doctors are in private practice and paid through combination of charges, discounted fees paid by private health plans, public programmes, and direct patient fees.​

In-patient care is provided in public and private hospitals. Hospitals are paid through a combination of charges, per admission, and capitation.​

UK - Universal, tax-funded system​

Public sector funded by taxation and some national insurance contributions.​

About 11% have private health insurance. Private GP services very small.
Healthcare free at point of delivery but charges for prescription drugs (except in Wales), ophthalmic services and dental services unless exempt.
Exemptions include children, elderly, and unemployed. About 85% of prescriptions are exempt.
Most walk-in care provided by GP practices but also some walk-in clinics and 24-hour NHS telephone helpline. Free ambulance service and access to accident and emergency. In patient care through GP referral and follow contractual arrangements between health authorities, Primary Care Trusts and the hospital.
Hospitals are semi-autonomous self-governing public trusts.​

France - Social insurance system
All legal residents covered by public health insurance funded by compulsory social health insurance contributions from employers and employees with no option to opt out.
Most people have extra private insurance to cover areas that are not eligible for reimbursement by the public health insurance system and many make out of pocket payments to see a doctor.​

Patients pay doctor's bills and are reimbursed by sickness insurance funds.
Government regulates contribution rates paid to sickness funds, sets global budgets and salaries for public hospitals.
In-patient care is provided in public and private hospitals (not-for-profit and for-profit). Doctors in public hospitals are salaried whilst those in private hospitals are paid on a fee-for-service basis. Some public hospital doctors are allowed to treat private patients in the hospital. A percentage of the private fee is payable to the hospital.
Most out-patient care is delivered by doctors, dentists and medical auxiliaries working in their own practices.​

Singapore - Dual system
Dual system funded by private and public sectors. Public sector provides 80% of hospital care 20% primary care.​

Financed by combination of taxes, employee medical benefits, compulsory savings in the form of Medisave, insurance and out-of-pocket payments.
Patients expected to pay part of their medical expenses and to pay more for higher level of service. Government subsidises basic healthcare.​

Public sector health services cater for lower income groups who cannot afford private sector charges. In private hospitals and outpatient clinics, patients pay the amount charged by the hospitals and doctors on a fee-for-service basis.

[/FONT]

 

[PokemonLeagueChamp]

Liberals: Congratulations. You just successfully helped bring about economic armageddon.

Our taxes will go up almost immediately. Most small businesses will be incapable of paying for their employees' health care, so between fines and layoffs, they'll all disappear, and we'll have high unemployment, to levels we haven't seen since the 1930's. Prices on everything will rise, forcing a rise in minimum wage, driving inflation and the dollar's further weakening.
All this, for what? Porkbarrel spending? Giving "free" healthcare to illegal immigrants(it's not free for the taxpayers the money will come from)?
What should really scare EVERYONE is that Nancy Pelosi said Congress had to pass the bill in order to find out what's in it. Not to mention that from Canada, to much of Europe, and even the state of Massachusetts, socialized health care DOESN'T WORK. It ruins economies. And just imagine what the government will do next. I'm finding it more and more plausible that they will shred the Constitution and make the excuse that it is "no longer relevant to the current time".
I say vote out anyone who voted yes to the bill. If that doesn't work, we may have to revolt once again. I am no anarachist, but I will fight to the death anyone who dares to try and take our rights, if I have to.

 

[.Gamer]

HEY GUYS, AM I DOING THIS RIGHT? :/

Sarcasm aside, I have mixed feelings about this bill. I mean, yeah, healthcare is important, but I feel like the timing of the bill is awful. Its going to add like a BAGILLION dollars to the defecit and we already have like ~10% unemployment so imo its kinda a step backwards. I mean, healthcare is important and all, but apparently lots of doctors are gonna just up and quit/leave the country (hint: thats bad). Also I feel like the congress should be more focused on trying to give people jobs. Whatevs tho, it passed, I still hate all politicians and think we should nuke Washington D.C. and every other capital city in the world and start over. It'll probably be overturned I think.


EDIT: Also, for anyone who thinks there is such a thing as "free" healtcare remember this annogram: TINSTAFL. There Is No Such Thing As a Free Lunch.

 

[PokemonLeagueChamp]

I know someone in the medical field. Their unbiased opinion? They hated the bill.

And around 60% of Americans are against this. Tea Parties(I even went to one)and protests, the people's wishes=IGNORED. The government is saying, "Your rights? **** your rights, we're doing what we want."

 

[Aureol]

Sarcasm aside, I have mixed feelings about this bill. I mean, yeah, healthcare is important, but I feel like the timing of the bill is awful. Its going to add like a BAGILLION dollars to the defecit and we already have like ~10% unemployment so imo its kinda a step backwards. I mean, healthcare is important and all, but apparently lots of doctors are gonna just up and quit/leave the country (hint: thats bad). Also I feel like the congress should be more focused on trying to give people jobs. Whatevs tho, it passed, I still hate all politicians and think we should nuke Washington D.C. and every other capital city in the world and start over. It'll probably be overturned I think.


EDIT: Also, for anyone who thinks there is such a thing as "free" healtcare remember this annogram: TINSTAFL. There Is No Such Thing As a Free Lunch.

I'm in the same boat as you. I felt we needed change bad, but I think this is a step in the wrong direction. I'm no genius, so if you asked me, I wouldn't come up with a solution, but this is wrong.

Besides, there's a lot of opposition to this bill; I don't know why Pres. Obama is trying to establish it now, where it will most likely fail, instead of in a few years, and he could just work harder in gathering support. Not that I like him, but this just seems like the smarter decision if I did agree with him.

 

[Prince_of_Light]

I've got a couple of non-taxpayer funded solutions, if anyone wants to have a look.

First, we have to regulate these frivolous lawsuits better. (TORT REFORM!) It's not necessarily the lawsuits themselves, it's that the medical practices have been driven into paranoia with their frequency. Tons and tons of money is wasted on excess testing and procedures when medical practices do defensive medicine. And who can blame them? lawsuits can put them out of business completely, everyone knows know people sue for all they can get, even if they don't need it. It's the selfishness in human nature.

Secondly, the real greedy scoundrels here are the colleges. THEY are the ones who need reform. Tuition is RIDICULOUSLY high for ANY profession, not to mention becoming a doctor takes a good 12 years of school. I saw a dateline documentary a couple years back that investigated all the frivolous spending colleges undertook while their professors weren't teaching and they hiked tuition to insane levels for those of us in the middle class who don't get many grants. The doctors have to spend the first ten years of their income on nothing but loans. If they want to actually be able to make ends meet with their business, however, they will inevitably pass the college cost onto the insurance companies by raising their fees, which forces the insurance companies to raise their premiums on us.

All because some idiot headmaster has to gold-clad their campus and install Olympic-sized swimming pools. ugh.

But the best part about fixing it with these? It doesn't cost the taxpayers ONE DIME, but it saves us tuition money AND helps the insurance companies lower premiums. And the only people who lose out are the lawyers and the stuck-up rich professors and school boards. You crying for them? I'm not.

And please don't accuse me of not wanting to have health care reform. Everyone wants that. To say that Republicans and conservatives don't want health care reform is utterly ignorant, unfounded, and arrogant. Don't say I don't want reform when I'm laying out solutions right here for you.

If there was one thing that really angered me about this whole process, it was that I, as a conservative, have been personally attacked and accused of not wanting reform and wanting people to die.

 

[Anti]

I know someone in the medical field. Their unbiased opinion? They hated the bill.

And around 60% of Americans are against this. Tea Parties(I even went to one)and protests, the people's wishes=IGNORED. The government is saying, "Your rights? **** your rights, we're doing what we want."

The people collectively elected the people who passed the bill. Just because a lot of people oppose the bill does not mean that the government is in any way ignoring or taking away your rights. I wasn't aware that ignoring a bunch of people carrying signs asking to impeach the president or having him with a Hitler mustache was somehow bad.

As for your previous post about taking up arms, that's absolutely absurd. No one is trying to take away your rights. Pardon me if I'm wring, but the Firth Amendment seems to be perfectly intact to me. But seriously, revolt? Because the other party passed a bill you don't like? Seriously? Just because Congressmen aren't doing what you want them to do doesn't mean that they're violating your rights. They are not obligated to go with what the people want. The way we "revolt" is by voting the people who pass what you don't like out of office.

 

[Mattysaurus]

Coverage:

* Would expand coverage to 32 million Americans who are currently uninsured.

What do they mean by this?
After reading everyone's posts, I'm starting to not believe I will get the helpful insurance I need. I haven't had health insurance my whole life. I thought this would really help my family. But seeing what you guys are putting out on the table, I'm starting to doubt this. I really don't know what to think about it anymore. I'm gonna keep up with this thread so I can learn more about it. :/

 

[PokemonLeagueChamp]

The people collectively elected the people who passed the bill. Just because a lot of people oppose the bill does not mean that the government is in any way ignoring or taking away your rights. I wasn't aware that ignoring a bunch of people carrying signs asking to impeach the president or having him with a Hitler mustache was somehow bad.

As for your previous post about taking up arms, that's absolutely absurd. No one is trying to take away your rights. Pardon me if I'm wring, but the Firth Amendment seems to be perfectly intact to me. But seriously, revolt? Because the other party passed a bill you don't like? Seriously? Just because Congressmen aren't doing what you want them to do doesn't mean that they're violating your rights. They are not obligated to go with what the people want. The way we "revolt" is by voting the people who pass what you don't like out of office.

Bold=just plain wrong.


Representative government=they do what the majority of the people want.
And the government doesn't have the right to force what they've rammed through onto the people.
As for the guy with the Hitler mustache on Obama, that was a radical, and was on the opposite side of the spectrum of the liberals who just proved they will do whatever they want.

 

[Ivysaur]

Guys, remember that the parlamentary democracy we live in means that we vote our representatives and they pass the laws they think are better for the country. If majority voted for a Democrat president and a Democrat House of Representatives and a Democrat Senate, they have the legitimity to pass any Democrat bill they want. The majority show what they want in elections. So there is nothing wrong there.

Millions of people all over the world, America included, protested against the Iraq war, the Congress approved it, and you see how it ended.

If there was one thing that really angered me about this whole process, it was that I, as a conservative, have been personally attacked and accused of not wanting reform and wanting people to die.

I think the same exact thing has been said about Democrats, except without the "not". When it comes down to calling Obama a nazi, something's pretty wrong out there.

 

[PokemonLeagueChamp]

We won the Iraq war. Nuff said.

 

[.Gamer]

What do they mean by this?
After reading everyone's posts, I'm starting to not believe I will get the helpful insurance I need. I haven't had health insurance my whole life. I thought this would really help my family. But seeing what you guys are putting out on the table, I'm starting to doubt this. I really don't know what to think about it anymore. I'm gonna keep up with this thread so I can learn more about it. :/

Age: 14

=/

Somehow, I feel like you have four years before you have to even start worrying about healtchare or anything like that.

We won the Iraq war. Nuff said.

Please stop posting. We never won, we still have troops there. I being semi-republican do not like the war in Iraq, seemed like a dumb thing imo, even tough Saddam was a terrible person.

 

[Prince_of_Light]

Guys, remember that the parlamentary democracy we live in means that we vote our representatives and they pass the laws they think are better for the country. If majority voted for a Democrat president and a Democrat House of Representatives and a Democrat Senate, they have the legitimity to pass any Democrat bill they want. The majority show what they want in elections. So there is nothing wrong there.

Millions of people all over the world, America included, protested against the Iraq war, the Congress approved it, and you see how it ended.



I think the same exact thing has been said about Democrats, except without the "not". When it comes down to calling Obama a nazi, something's pretty wrong out there.

1. There's nothing wrong about passing a bill, it's the process by which they did it that was corrupt and wrong.

2. Let's stay on topic. The Iraq War is a totally different deal.

3. Don't forget that there was more to fascism than just the eugenics and the Holocaust. As a conservative I can tell you from personal experience that the protesters who use such signs are trying to point out that our President is trying to run a government similar to the fascist government Hitler and Mussolini proposed, not that he is a genocidal totalitarian maniac. The parallels between this administration and the governmental theories and practices of fascism can be argued for strongly on an academic level. Check out a book called Liberal Fascism by Jonah Goldberg to see what I mean.

Again, they're not trying to call the President a mass-murderer, they are merely trying to say that the governmental principles of fascism are what Obama supports. I think they could have used a more respectful method to go about it, though.

 

[PokemonLeagueChamp]

.Gamer, we have troops in Europe, Korea, the Phillippines, and many other locations around the world. And you have to agree that terrorist insurgents need to be put down so they don't come here or elsewhere.

 

[Ivysaur]

We won the Iraq war. Nuff said.

So that means that you think the Congress did the right thing starting the war despite the protests. But you don't think it's not democratically right that they passed the health care bill despite the protests?

(I'd make a comment about how there was a civil war in Iraq for years that caused millions of deaths, including thousands of American soldiers, and no mass-destruction weapons and little Al Qaeda members, if any, were found there, despite wasting billions of $, but that's another topic).

@ Prince_of_Light: Corupt process? Do you mind explaining?

And I still think that Obama has little to do with fascism, since he's way more libreal that any European leader, and we don't get called "fascist", that I know of :\

 

[Anti]

Bold=just plain wrong.


Representative government=they do what the majority of the people want.
And the government doesn't have the right to force what they've rammed through onto the people.

Kindly tell me where in the Constitution it says that Congressmen have to do what their constituents want them to do. They get their power from the people who elect them. Then it is entirely up to their judgment. >_>

As for the guy with the Hitler mustache on Obama, that was a radical, and was on the opposite side of the spectrum of the liberals who just proved they will do whatever they want.

...What? This isn't a liberals vs. conservatives issue. This is a "Barack Obama cannot be compared to Adolf Hitler" issue.

As for the liberals who "will do whatever they want," the Democrats sure don't get a lot done for supposedly having dictatorial tendencies. lol.

 

[PokemonLeagueChamp]

Anti: Debating with you will clearly waste my time. You must not understand "representative government".

Went: We had more reasons besides WMDs to enter Iraq. Ignoring Hussein's existence, that was coming off 9/11. We though al-Qaeda was there. We went into Afghanistan, didn't we?
When it comes to war, nobody protested when we entered WWII after Pearl Harbor. Iraq....Iraq is gray for me. But we won, now we're just doing clean up, more or less.

 

[zhfac]

We won the Iraq war. Nuff said.

Haha, you're joking right?

Also, to the people bashing the Canadian health system, what's exactly wrong with free health care? I know it has it's downfalls (not everything is covered), but it's kinda hard to complain about something that's free.

 

[Ayselipera]

I'm just glad we're finally moving the health care situation along. At least it's getting somewhere even if it's going to take a few years for some of the new changes to take effect.

I'll just leave it at that.